Talk:Ducera Partners

Article updates

Hi all, I would like to suggest a few updates to this article. Please add Agnes Tang to the listed co-founders of Ducera. Additionally, please add the following acquisitions to the Advisory subsection under Business activities:

• Restructured $72 billion of debt for the Puerto Rico Government Development Bank bondholders in 2015.
• Advised junior bondholders in the debt reorganization of more than $2 billion of loans by Dex Media in 2015.
• Advised Creditor's Committee in reorganization of Paragon Offshore PLC in 2015.
• Advised investors in connection with Alpha Natural Resources (ANI) filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in 2015.
• Advised shareholders' committee in Chapter 11 bankruptcy of Hercules Offshore, Inc., in 2016.
• Advised Dynegy's Illinois Power Generation Company in restructuring $825 million in debt with its creditors in 2016.
• Advised the sale of Monsanto to Bayer for $66 billion, the largest M&A deal of the year, with Ducera taking $50 million of fees, in 2016.
• Advised NewPage Corp., the paper company purchased by Verso Corp., in connection with a restructuring of $2.8 billion in debt in 2016.
• Advised SCANA in potential bankruptcy proceedings for Westinghouse Electric Company to recover billions of dollars owed in connection with building the first nuclear power plant in the United States in 2017.
• Served as investment banker for Transtar Holding Co in 2017.
• Advised Digital Currency group on a $600 million transaction in the debt capital markets in 2021.
• Advised Virgin Orbit on its Chapter 11 bankruptcy and sale in 2023.
• Advised State of Hawaii Climate Advisory Team in 2024.

References

Thank you very much! PD for Ducera (talk) 15:15, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Apologies but I don't believe that listing the subject's clients is at all encyclopaedic information. I will add Agnes Tang, but I will remove the other material in the current Advisory subsection. Axad12 (talk) 18:56, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Agree that citing a long list of client engagements seems non-encyclopedic; to me, it verges on being promotional (per WP:PROMOTION or WP:IBA). Paul W (talk) 12:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Revised request

Hi. In my previous request, I tried to adhere to the original article's style of listing Ducera's business activities. I received feedback that this approach was less encyclopedic and verging on promotional, so I reviewed the materials and would like to propose an update to the "Ducera" section to include some of the more notable deals (based on reliable sources) and to remove some potentially promotional language. Please see my suggested language below, with the requested additions in bold:

Ducera's business activities include advising companies on debt restructure. One of Ducera's earliest notable deals occurred in July 2015 when a group of Puerto Rico Government Development Bank bondholders hired Ducera to restructure $72 billion worth of debt. Ducera and Morgan Stanley advised Monsanto on its September 2016 sale to Bayer for US$66 billion, the largest M&A deal of 2016. Ducera was stated to have taken in $50 million in fees from one of the largest deals in 2016 despite being only around a year old. The firm also advised Dex Media, Paragon Offshore PLC, Dynegy's Illinois Power Generation Company,, NewPage, SCANA for Westinghouse Electric Company. and Virgin Orbit.

References

I appreciate both Axad12 and Paul W's work on improving this article, and apologize for the confusion regarding the timing of my last request. Thanks PD for Ducera (talk) 16:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies but info on 'notable deals' and clients is promotional rather than encyclopaedic, so these details are inadmissible regardless of how they are worded. I have thus removed the relevant section from the article. Axad12 (talk) 16:09, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I suggest, as 2016's biggest M&A deal, the Monsanto sale to Bayer should be mentioned (it also gives some context to the mention of Monsanto terminating their PWP relationship). The listing of other advisory clients, however, is somewhat promotional - it's name-dropping. WP:IBA says a trait of blatant advertising is "It mentions notable people and claim that they purchase or use the product regularly"; in this instance, it might be interpreted as 'It mentions notable clients and claims that they use the company's service regularly'. I think such name-dropping should be avoided. Paul W (talk) 16:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, happy to go with that as a compromise solution. Regards, Axad12 (talk) 16:47, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

A minor point (pinging PD for Ducera): should Agnes Tong also be included in the opening body copy under "Origins at Perella Weinberg Partners"? Paul W (talk) 21:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Paul W and Axad12 for your collaboration here. My understanding of Wikipedia is that it is a reflection of press coverage, and my above suggestions intended to offer more information about Ducera as a company. My intent wasn't to "name drop," but to remove any potentially promotional language or details form the previous request and include only Ducera's most notable deals as supported by top tier sources in order to balance out the article. I included wikilinks to demonstrate the companies' overall relevance.

I encourage you to take another look at the overall article, which places undue weight on the background and founding, much of which discusses the founders themselves. and not the firm, over 5 paragraphs. The style is not encyclopedic and lacks inline citations; each paragraph is a confusing compilation of numerous sources. It appears to violate WP:PROPORTION and WP:RELEVANCE. In light of the above, I've taken a stab at summarizing the existing information, but of course welcome your input:

Ducera was co-founded in 2015 by partners Michael Kramer, Derron Slonecker, Joshua Scherer, Agnes Tang, and Adam Verost. Kramer, Slonecker, Scherer and Verost had been colleagues at Perella Weinberg Partners, and were fired and sued by PWP, who claimed to have discovered their plan to leave and start their own firm. Kramer and his colleagues filed a countersuit for defamation and wrongful seizing of equity, in addition to denying their plan to leave. In 2016, the New York state court dismissed some of the compensation claims of Ducera's co-founders while allowing their allegations of defamation and interference of business prospects to move forward.

I look forward to your thoughts on both expanding the general information about the firm and on maintaining due weight and balance. Thanks again for your attention here. PD for Ducera (talk) 15:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi PD for Ducera (and pinging Axad12). Thanks for your latest contribution. Wikipedia is not "a reflection of press coverage" - editors seek to compile information about a subject from reliable, published sources, making sure that all majority and significant minority views that have appeared in those sources are covered (WP:RS).

I agree the company's foundation is not well described (the blanket use of citations at the end of a para isn't helpful in helping readers understand what citation supports what assertion; see also WP:REFBOMB), and it could be much more concise. Your suggested replacement text - with the appropriate addition of relevant inline citations - looks a sensible approach, but let's see what any other editors think first.... Paul W (talk) 17:14, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Paul W, I appreciate you looking at this in such depth. Since you agree with the proposed language and other editors don't seem to take issue with it, would you mind updating the article? Thanks again for your time. PD for Ducera (talk)

Hi PD for Ducera I don't implement COI edits. But I noticed you have not provided the references/sources for each line in the proposed change. Sourcing takes time but is a vital part of Wikipedia especially given this is a COI edit and it need to be done with great scrutiny. You can use the sources provided already in the article or find new ones but remember we need to use independent reliable ones. If the article fails to meet WP:NCORP it could be deleted. Only after the sourcing is done, will editors be ready to take the next step. - Imcdc Contact 13:16, 21 December 2024 (UTC)