Talk:Diamond Way Buddhism/Archive 1

Controversies surrounding Diamond Way

This article contains a lot of claims not referenced by any source. For instance: "which has attracted criticism from outsiders and former members for using a cult of personality." should definitely be backed up by a source in order to remain in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.158.129.78 (talk) 20:13, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

--88.90.102.196 (talk) 22:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC)I am not here to remove portions of other's people texts unless it's vandalism, but "self-denominated" (as mentioned below by a fellow whose signature appears to be deleted) is simply incorrect as Ole Nydahl is a lama according to the 14th Shamarpa, the second highest ranking lama in the Karma Kagyu, a lineage holder and also his teacher. The documents can be found at http://www.lama-ole-nydahl.org/olesite/pages/person/dokuments.html --88.90.102.196 (talk) 22:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Controversies around Ole Nydahl

I have removed the 'Self-appointed' reference as this is not true. Please see:

http://www.lama-ole-nydahl.org/olesite/pages/person/dokuments.html

There are two letters from Shamar Rinpoche, the second highest ranking Lama of the Karma Kagyu Lineage, and one from Khenpo Chodrak Rinpoche, the director of the Shedra in Delhi that you mentioned. All confirm Lama Ole's qualifications as a teacher of Vajrayana Buddhism in the context of the Karma Kagyu School.

I have included a link to Kagyu Net in the links section, this shows that Ole Nydahl's Diamond Way Centres clearly belong to the Kagyu Lineage and are not a 'sect' as mentioned elsewhere by the author of the essay above. I have included the above link to the documents clarifying Ole Nydahl's qualifications, which refute the allegation made on earlier on the page that he is 'self-appointed'. I have also removed the link to the Buddhist Channel. The reason is that this is article is pure vilification written by a Christian who is clearly antipathetic towards Buddhism in general. User:Vajraspanner 24.10.06

As a former "diamond way student" I am familiarized with this supossedly written letters from Shamar Rinpoche. This are the same letters that are included in Ole's book "Entering the Diamond Way". For me this letters probe nothing. They could be forged. Diamond-Way Buddhism is a personal cult sect about the super-ego-maniac charming fascist racist womanizer Ole Nydahl. He and people close to him (Center directors and Thwe so-called travel teachers) use the same technics present in any cult, see [1]How cults work

Well, it might be a surprise, but all letters in the world can actually be forged. Even those I get from my mother. By the way, I have never understood the supposed negativity of the term "womanizer" which is embraced by some people, not to mention the word "charming"... to me, it always seemed more like a compliment...--Grn78 (talk) 00:57, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Your claims that Diamond Way Buddhism is a cult are completely unfounded. Lama Ole Nydahl is recognised by Shamar Rinpoche, the second highest lama of the Karma Kagyu lineage, as an authentic teacher (Please see the reference above and on the main article). Your claim that Diamond Way is "a largely separate organisation" can be refuted by checking this link: http://kagyu.net/ This is the portal to all Kagyu centres under the guidance of Karmapa Thaye Dorje. Even if you disagree that Thaye Dorje is the Authentic Karmapa, you cannot claim that Diamond Way is a separate organisation. Any criticism that Diamond Way Buddhism is a cult are therefore unfounded as it stands firmly within the Karma Kagyu lineage of Buddhism. To claim Diamond Way is a cult would therefore be to claim that the Karma Kagyu school is a cult, which it is clearly not. It is one of the four main schools of Tibetan Buddhism and a 2,500 year old transmission lineage. What you are posting on the page is defamatory, I also do not think the personal attack you have left on my user page to be particularly in keeping with the Wikipedia guidelines. I politely ask you to refrain from airing your personal vendettas online, it is you who are abusing the NPOV and vandalism User:Vajraspanner 03.08.08

Dusepo, your references to support your claim that Diamond Way Buddhism is a Cult are as follows:

1) The personal website of a physics student Roahn Wynar who makes completely wild accusations such as "They will also tell you that during meditation that they can see themselves from above, predict incoming telephone calls and in one wonderful case, become invisible" and then criticises Americans for searching for looking East for philosophies that are not as dogmatic and ritualistic as Western religion. He also criticises Diamond Way Buddhism for "the most annoying of all meditative practices, chanting mantras." All schools of Tibetan Buddhism use mantras. If you also agree with Roahn Wynar, why are you picking on one school of Tibetan Buddhism not all of them?

2) An article critical of all institutional religion "and the dangers of committing one’s self within its framework" and one which also rubbishes Tibetan Buddhism in general. It even criticised the 16th Karmapa himself as a "supposedly holy and learned Tibetan man". When shown in the light of the facts, this criticism just doesn't stand up.

Ultimately, the article's claim of a 'cult of personality', just like your claim, is refuted by the endorsement of Ole Nydahl by the 14th Shamarpa and the 17th Karmapa Thaye Dorje (see above). Please give up your pursuit.User:Vajraspanner 04.08.08 —Preceding undated comment was added at 20:43, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Dusepo, please quit it at that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grn78 (talk • contribs) 23:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

--Grn78 (talk) 01:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)Ole Nydahl is actually a lama according to the 14th Shamarpa. The teachings are considered flawless by the highest lineage holders (see Nydahl's page here at wiki for details. Sexual abuse is a crime that should be reported to the police, not only wikipedia discussion forum, and I really hope this has been done. When it comes to "affairs" - there is actually something called "open relationship"... and it is quite difficult, at least for me, to see a problem in two people spending a night together, whoever they might be. Moreover, "affairs" were widely practiced not only by the yogies of tibet, mahasiddhas of india and "regular" lay buddhist practitioners, but even by the historical Buddha himself - just take a look at the life story of the young prince, how many wifes and mistresses he had. Hey, even monks used the practices sexual union according to instructions in the tantras. Of course, I do not know what group you had been a member of, but celibacy is never advocated in Diamond Way - just take a look at the teachings of Nydahl, you will never find anything to support this. There are no monks and no books are banned from the centers - there is actually a list of books by many different authors that are recommended reading. It can be found here:[2] not to mention other teachings that are available online. --Grn78 (talk) 01:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)