Talk:Dhuvjan Monastery

A fact from Dhuvjan Monastery appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 September 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the 11th century Dhuvjan Monastery in Albania contains an icon which includes remains of very important early Christian saints?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/September.

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Move

Hi, can we move this to Dhuvjan Monastery? The name Monastery of Saints Quiricus and Julietta is certainly not unique, there's at least one monastery in Bulgaria with that name, for example (the Gorni Voden Monastery). Any thoughts? Todor →Bozhinov 07:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I agree with you. Made the move to Dhrovjan Monastery. Dhuvjan is a misnomer, the official name is Dhrovjan. --Sulmues ^(talk) 18:37, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is a problem though. The site on Gjirokastër would not put the monastery as being in Gjirokastër if by your details it is not. What I mean by this is that Dhrovjan is in the adjacent Vlorë County, meanwhile Dhuvjan, the correct name as provided on the website itself, and on GeoNames as well, is located in Gjirokastër County. Comments? --YÜM ^{(Got food?)} 18:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dhrovjan is officially in the District of Sarande, Vlore County, however we may safely keep it under the Gjirokaster template umbrella because it's very close to Gjirokaster. We may also keep it under the Sarande template as well, it's somehow equidistant unless someone objects saying that the Gjirokaster template should have only city related objects, but I don't believe any one would protest about it. --Sulmues ^(talk) 18:59, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am not talking about Dhrovjan, I am aware of Dhrovjan's location, but Dhuvjan, you know, the village in Dropull...--YÜM ^{(Got food?)} 19:01, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here is another anomaly: Doesn't it rather bother you that the Drino Valley is located between Gjirokastër and Delvinë, not Sarandë? So if Dhrovjan were really in the District of Sarandë, why would it be in the Drino Valley? I know it is a little analytical but just doesn't add up, if you know what I mean. --YÜM ^{(Got food?)} 19:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ops. I screwed up. It should be Dhuvjan, not Dhrovjan. My bad, I'll move to Dhuvjan Monastery, and yes, it's in Gjirokaster. --Sulmues ^(talk) 19:09, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Sulmues ^(talk) 21:00, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article and talk page successfully moved by user:Victuallers (see [1], and [2]) Dhrovjan Monastery → Dhuvjan Monastery — I incorrectly named Dhrovjan Monastery, because of Dhrovjan in Sarande District, but that is another settlement: per above talk, please move to Dhuvjan Monastery: Dhuvjan is the name of the settlement close to the monastery, see also sources. Sulmues ^(talk) 19:13, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Questions

How can an icon contain the physical remains of saints? What sort of remains were they? Also, how were they identified? How on earth did remains of John Chrysostom end up there, if I understand the article correctly? Also, the Theotokos of St. Theodore is not a saint, but another icon. There appears to have been a mistranslation somewhere here... Could someone check it out please? Constantine ✍ 16:35, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, this is confusing and possibly a translation artefact. Have asked at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albania for help. --Pgallert (talk) 15:28, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Corrected Theotokos of St. Theodore with Theodore Stratelates, which is what the source mentions: thanks Constantine. Remains/bones: According to the article they are bones of three of the six saints, but it's not specified of whom of the six. The icon is also described as an emblem. According to the article the bones seem to be part of the icon (or emblem), or placed on top of it. The icon/emblem has the names of the saints and some bones of three saints. The article doesn't specify if there are any images on the icon. Very hard to verify through a second source though: that's what the believers and the priest think and the journalist has taken them at face value. No, I'm not lost in translation, I am correctly translating the article. The only argument to be made would be that of reliability of the source, but it's the best (and only) source we have. The author of the article is a reliable journalist with a genuine interest on the monasteries of the Drino Valley and has written several articles on them. --Sulmues ^(talk) 17:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Have tweaked the paragraph reflecting the information supplied by Sulmues. Prose flow should be a bit better now. --Pgallert (talk) 07:23, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Λάθος συντεταγμένες

Οι συντεταγμένες είναι λάθος, το μοναστίρι βρίσκετε στο χωρίο Δούβιανη στην Κάτω Δρόπολη στον νομό Αργυροκάστρου, και όχι στο χωριό Δρόβιανη.

Coordinates are wrong. the monastery is located in the village of Dhuvjan in Dropull and not in Dhrovgan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xhumbas (talk • contribs) 10:24, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

AOC

@Khirurg The monastery is under the jurisdiction of the Albanian Autocephalous Church. It's Albanian Orthodox. That's how it works. Macedonian Orthodox, Bulgarian Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox. And certainly, it's a Byzantine-era monastery, not a Byzantine one. What does it make Byzantine? The foundation? If we go by the "foundation" logic certain articles would be subject to changes, according to your logic. Or do you mean the Byzantine-Catholic church? That would be plain wrong by the way. I literally could not care less about this monastery, but the double standards are more than striking.

Btw, the only official language of the AOC is Albanian. It was created for a purpose. Minority languages can be used in areas where they are present.

Macedonian on the lead of the Monastery of Saint Naum even though it was founded by Bulgarians, Bulgarian Orthodox on the lead of a cathedral commissioned by a Russian, Greek Orthodox on the lead of a church built by Albanians. WP:CONSISTENCY. And btw, we haven't seen each other in a long time. But do know that the reverting for the sake of it and accusation spreading won't be productive. Quite the contrary. AlexBachmann (talk) 20:43, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a "Byzantine-era" monastery, it's a Byzantine monastery, period. If it wasn't for the Byzantines, it would not have been built. And there are things dating to the Byzantine-era that were not built by the Byzantines. Your change tries to avoid giving credit to those who built it and instead make it seems like it was built by those who just happened to inherit it out of luck. Khirurg (talk) 22:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you read my comment at all? That's not how it works - I'm not trying to remove any credit. In fact I did not remove "Byzantine" but changed it to "Byzantine-era". That's an agreeable solution. It's Albanian Orthodox today, so as per WP:CONSISTENCY on almost all articles about Orthodox churches or monasteries, it's to be changed. Regardless of who built it or ordered it to be built.

[...] to inherit it out of luck Trust me I don't care about that monastery the photo looks like taken during Kosovo war AlexBachmann (talk) 22:32, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]