Talk:Dead & Company

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Rock music

	Rock music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rock music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Rock music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Rock musicWikipedia:WikiProject Rock musicTemplate:WikiProject Rock musicRock music articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Contested deletion

Band is comprised of notable musicians and is booking a full national tour at this time. Easily passes music guidelines. Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barbara Massey Rogers which may be the motivating factor in the nomination. Also significance is claimed with sources so AFD should be the next choice. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 02:30, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Hell"...I don't like this personal accusation and I would ask that you keep it professional. The speedy deletion tag is strictly related to this article; here are my reasons: "Not notable. Sounds like a news release. Their "debut show" has not even taken place yet. No evidence of record sales, etc.". Furthermore, your response suggests you think they might possibly become notable one day...Zigzig20s (talk) 02:40, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I'll take you at your word that you stumbled on this article shortly after yours was deleted from an AFD started by me. Seems legit. Second the line up is Bill Kreutzmann, Bob Weir, Mickey Hart and John Mayer if you are trying to say that those musicians aren't notable I'll be interested in seeing the AFD. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 02:43, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The musicians might be, but THIS PAGE is not. Or, prove that it is. Right now, it just sounds like a news release.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:49, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

By all means start the AFD. Significance is claimed with sources so CSD will be declined. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 02:50, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hell, your behavior is unpleasant. I want nothing to do with you. Others will judge if this sounds like a news release or not. Please leave me alone now.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:12, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting as you engaged me? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 03:14, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

At WP:BAND it says that a band is notable if it "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself." The article already cites write-ups in Billboard and Rolling Stone. Dead & Company has also been written about by Associated Press, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, Pitchfork, Ultimate Guitar, Consequence of Sound, Billboard again... There's more where that came from too. — Mudwater^(Talk) 03:55, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here's more: Entertainment Weekly, Entertainment Tonight, A.V. Club, Relix, The Guardian, Guitar Player, Jam Base, jambands.com. — Mudwater^(Talk) 04:09, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:Mudwater, it wasn't good faith nomination. Wait for the afd. The CSD is a knee jerk reaction. Hopefully they realize what they are doing and the fact that I have offered to help improve the deleted article. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 04:17, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Thanks. I don't want to go overboard here, but some of these stories contain interesting material that can be used in the article. Bay Area News Group, Marin Independent Journal. I'm expecting something insightful in the San Francisco Chronicle too, but it looks like so far they've just published the AP story. — Mudwater^(Talk) 04:22, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am stuck between wanting to strangle Phil and understanding he wants a break...GRRR! I wanted so bad to see the Fare thee well shows. Hope that he does a few shows in colorado with them but maybe that;'s just a pipe dream. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 04:29, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Tour Dates

A listing of tour dates and venue strikes me as advertising and does not add to the article about the band. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 17:40, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If it included a link to purchase tickets I would agree with you. But in this case, I don't. A listing of tour dates and locations is of interest to fans. While that information is available elsewhere, so is everything else in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lowmeadow (talk • contribs) 19:47, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree that the tour dates do not belong on the artists main page. My reasoning is because no (or at least none I have seen) other bands have all of the tour dates they have performed on their pages. Having said that, if someone wants to create an article for the tour itself, that is another story. (talk) 02:00, 9 December 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.209.32.185 (talk) [reply]

I have removed the tour dates on the artist's main page but I created a seperate article for the tour itself and moved them there. sk8punk3d288 (talk) 20:22, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Are Burbridge and Chimenti members?

As far as I can tell, this article (version) has become the only source on the web (apart from mirrors and the like) that explicitly says the band has four members. That's the result of these two edits, which are based on the editor's reading of the band's website, which lists Hart, Kreutzmann, Mayer and Weir first, followed by "with Oteil Burbridge and Jeff Chimenti". While this listing suggests that the latter two may be in a different category than the more famous first four, we have no reason to assume that the only two possible categories are "member" and "non-member". Further, the three sources cited don't support the claim, and the third one explicitly contradicts it, saying DeadCo includes all six. Here are four more sources saying the same: CBS News, Rolling Stone, Al.com, and Livenation (press release, likely originating with the band itself). In light of the above, both edits need to be undone, which I'll do now. Happy editing, Middle 8 (t • c | privacy • COI) 13:58, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, unless we go to the official website from the band. here lists Burbridge and Chimenti as "with..." rather than as members. When there is a conflict, I'm inclined to go with a) the most recent and b) the source which is closest to the group itself. If you have another source which states that the band's own official roster on it's own official website is actually wrong, as opposed to journalists who aren't going into details between members and contract players, I'd love to see it. Merely because the journalists aren't reporting the distinction between the first four and the last two doesn't mean the distinction doesn't exist, especially when the band's official website notes the distinction. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and in this case we have direct evidence from the bands website. We'd need actual direct refutation of that, and not merely a lack of reporting of it, to contradict it. Simply put, I'm inclined to believe what the band itself tells us. --Jayron 32 00:44, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I dunno. Burbridge and Chimenti have played in all the band's concerts, and the third-party references consider them members of the band. So my initial inclination is to list them as members, in the infobox and in the Members section. — Mudwater^(Talk) 01:00, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just because they play with them doesn't make them band members (as opposed to featured players or contract players). There have been many musicians which have played with bands and have never been official members (which is more of a business and contractural issues), which is why they are listed a "with..." in publications. Consider the role of Ian Stewart (musician) in the Rolling Stones, Hugh McDonald (American musician) in Bon Jovi (prior to 2016), Bill Rieflin in REM following the retirement of Bill Berry, etc. etc. Appearing in recordings and on stage does not make you a member. Being a member makes you a member. We should follow the 'With' formulation used on the official website, because that is what they do. --Jayron 32 01:37, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It comes down to what sources say as opposed to reading between the lines. The "with" language could indicate non-members, but also less-than-full members, or something else; this is not "direct evidence". Fortunately, we don't need to make inferences given that we have multiple secondary sources with editorial oversight stating clearly that it's all six. See e.g. quotes from Rolling Stone and CBS News. (OTOH I haven't seen sources clearly stating that it's just four. Other than older versions of this article.

) --Middle 8 (t • c | privacy • COI) 08:07, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also their official Facebook page says:

Dead & Company is:

Mickey Hart - Drums / Percussion

Bill Kreutzmann - Drums / Percussion

John Mayer - Guitar / Vocals

Bob Weir - Guitar / Vocal

Oteil Burbridge - Bass

Jeff Chimenti - Keys

[1]

--Middle 8 (t • c | privacy • COI) 08:10, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Alright. I'm good with that then. We'll go with not drawing a distinction for now. It looks good the way it is.

Resolved

--Jayron 32 14:32, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Phil Lesh

The article says, "Phil Lesh, the original bassist for the Grateful Dead, was not asked to join." However, the citations for this sentence are Forbes, which only mentions Lesh by referring to Dead & Company as "the Phil Lesh-less band", and JamBase, which refers to performances by Phil Lesh & Friends but says nothing about Dead & Company.

What source is there that says that Lesh was not asked to join Dead & Company, as opposed to the possibility that Bob Weir, Mickey Hart, and Bill Kreutzmann did invite Lesh to join but Lesh chose not to do so? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 14:03, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Metropolitan90: A really good reference is the book Fare Thee Well: The Final Chapter of the Grateful Dead's Long, Strange Trip by Joel Selvin and Pamela Turley. I read it, and Lesh not joining Dead & Company was more of a mutual decision. I don't think the article should get into the somewhat awkward details without quoting or referencing the book, but I've updated that part of the article, here. — Mudwater^(Talk) 19:33, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Band membership

I'm going to add Jay Lane to the list of band members in the infobox. There's been no official announcement of Lane joining the band -- and the band's official website doesn't list the members -- but it's apparent that he will be Bill Kreutzmann's replacement for Dead & Company's remaining concerts. Lane played with the band on May 5th in New Orleans and on May 8th in Ithaca. And he was Bill Kreutzmann's replacement for part or all of several shows in 2021 and 2022. In conclusion, Lane is now a full-time member of the band. If anyone else has any opinions about this, please post them here. — Mudwater^(Talk) 11:10, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]