Talk:Danebod

Lake Danebod

In response to a request for a copy-edit at WP:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests#Danebod, I am copy-editing the article on Danebod. In the lead, it mentions a "Lake Danebod". I spent quite a few minutes searching on-line for this lake, and I was unable to find any mention of it. (a) Is it possible that the lake has a different name? and (b) Is it possible that the lake has dried up or been filled in and no longer exists? Or, even if it has, does it even matter, as long as it existed then, when the folk center was built? Just curious. Corinne (talk) 22:58, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

I can find a few online references to a "Danebod Lake" in Tyler, MN – it sounds like today it is more of a drainage area, however I can't find a more thorough explanation of whether it was drained or filled in (much less when or under what circumstances). Could we just rephrase it as "former lake" or would we need to find something more substantive to back it up? Nsteffel (talk) 20:11, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't know. Couldn't you just add an external link to one of those online references in the "External links" section at the end of the article? Corinne (talk) 00:48, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Danebod/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 23:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I'll review this article. FunkMonk (talk) 23:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

• Perhaps left align the Thyra Danebod image so it doesn't clash with the infobox?

Moved.

• There are many paragraphs throughout that end without citations, all needs to be fixed.

Where exactly do you think there needs to be more citation support?

No end of a paragraph should end without citations, so everywhere this occurs. First occurrence is after the sentence "The population grew rapidly in the early 1890s, and by the year 1895, 222 people lived in the Danish Colony of Danebod." FunkMonk (talk) 22:34, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I strongly suspect the existing citations and sources support those facts, but since I lack access to the sources used I'm not really in a position to shuffle the footnotes around or to add additional page citations to cover everything. If that's truly a requirement you can close this nomination. Nsteffel (talk) 15:51, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, it is an important requirement that statements are followed by citations. It doesn't have to be after every sentence, as long as the sentence at the end of the paragraph supports all preceding statements in it. Nominators are expected to have at least some familiarity with the sources used in the articles they nominate. FunkMonk (talk) 15:56, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Let me reach out to the article's main contributor and see if they can be of assistance. Nsteffel (talk) 16:57, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Good idea. FunkMonk (talk) 17:03, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

And that is me haha. I still have the books I have used for citations. As mentioned by Nsteffel, the sources are in there. I tried putting them at the end of several sentences and or paragraphs using the same citation/source. Let me know if I can be to help finding the original sources. $\mathbb {N}$iceley 16:02, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Alright, so will you be available to assist with solving the rest of the issues I bring up? FunkMonk (talk) 16:24, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Nsteffel and Niceley, I need to know whether you two are going to follow through with this before reviewing the rest. FunkMonk (talk) 13:58, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Proceed. I corrected the one you noted. Nsteffel (talk) 21:00, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Added a bunch below, will continue later. And by the way, Niceley, you're the first other Wikipedia editor of Faroese descent I encounter, hehe... FunkMonk (talk) 02:06, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• It seems infobox image depicts a bulding also depicted further down in the article. No reason to depict it twice, and the caption "Danebod Folk School, 2007" should be moved to the infobox.

Corrected.

• "of Danish bishop N. F. S. Grundtvig" Spell out his name.

His own article notes he is "most often referred to as N. F. S. Grundtvig." I would be inclined to use the most commonly used form of his name.

You give the full name further down and spell it out in an image caption, though. FunkMonk (talk) 13:54, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Fair enough, I set both to use his full name.

• The etymology has some redundancies that should be merged. For example "to save Lincoln County Danes from total Americanization" and "a safe haven for Danes who valued preservation in the face of pressures for Americanization". Also: "belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran faction" and "a faction within the Danish Lutheran State Church". Reading further, it seems all this and more information is again repeated in the history section. Why is it in etymology as well? Should be cut.

I've edited the section down since yes, this is all repetitive information.

• "and the Folk School" Why is this capitalised?

It seems somewhat inconsistent in the article, but I think it should be capitalized consistently as a proper noun. Do you agree?

• "Gorm the Elder" Should redirect to Gorm the Old.

Fixed.

• ""the home of the Nissemænd", directly translated as "the home of the santas"." This is incorrect, nissemand refers to the Tomte/nisse. Does the source really say "santas"? "If the homeowner lays out food for the nissemænd, they can be helpful elves; if not, they can become mischievous." Why is this written as if it was fact?

I am unsure what to do with this content, really, and don't have access to these sources. Niceley?

• Why are page numbers shown in the article text instead of under references? This does not seem to be correct citation formatting.

See: [1]

Ok, seems to be a thing, then. FunkMonk (talk) 13:54, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• "The native inhabitants were the Dakota Sioux people." Native inhabitants of what?

Of the geographic area. I rephrased it to be clearer.

• There are three places where you write "Danebo" without the last d.

Corrected.

• "in Neenah, WI" Why do you not spell this state name out when you spell out others?

Fixed.

• "on the country side" Countryside?

I think so, rephrased it.

• You need to note if a reference is in Danish with the language parameter.

Added.

• "F. L. Grundtvig" You don't mention his relation to N. F. S. Grundtvig.

Added a note and a reference which mentions this.

• "and were often nicknamed "Happy Danes"." By who?

This seems to be a common description of Grundtvig's followers and the broader division in the Danish church. Added a reference to it.

• "Grundtvigians; a Danish faction within the state church of Denmark" A Danish faction within a Danish church? Seems redundant.

Agreed, rephrased it.

• ""O her os, vore Fædres Gud" (Oh hear us, our Fathers' God)" Hør os, surely? and "Reverend A. S. Nielsen preached and the text was Romans 8:22-23" What is meant here? That he only preached that text?

Niceley, can you speak to these?

• Acres should be converted in parenthesis.

Now converted to km2.

• " of such a Danish-speaking folk school" Why is Danish only linked all the way down here?

I added a link on Danes in the intro paragraph and removed it here. I will do a more thorough review of where there are links out to terms like danish language, danish culture, danish cuisine, etc. as well.

• " gather money toward a church bell." Money for?

For buying it. Rephrased this.

• "In her travel diary entitled "My Big Adventure of 1915–1916: The joys and hazards of motor touring in 1915"" Book titles should be in italics.

Italicized it.

• " and took the lives of 36 people" Not in this town alone, I assume?

Actually yes, the tornado hit the town of Tyler and the sources I can find say the 36 deaths all occurred there.

• "were all in the Danish language for decades, and remained the most widely spoken language" and Danish remained the...

Rephrased this.

• "fly the Danish flag, Danneborg" Dannebrog.

Fixed.

• Many terms are over-linked, especially Danish language.

Like the foods? This is an English language article after all. I appreciated the links out as someone who doesn't know what those things are.

I mean they are linked more than once in the article body when they should only be linked at first occurrence there. FunkMonk (talk) 15:09, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• "there is a parade coming out of Danish tradition" Coming out seems like odd wording.

Rephrased.

• "fair called Tivoli[13]:26 (Scandinavian word for amusement park)." This seems incorrect or badly explained, the Copenhagen Tivoli is named after a French amusement park which was named after an Italian city.

I removed this sentence, the cited references didn't have anything to support it anyway.

• "by the Folk School students Kristian Klink and Niels Petersen, and was used for church services, community meetings, folk dancing, and physical education." Already explained under history.

Removed repetitive information.

• "Danebod was the center for the Danish colony in Lincoln County,[12]:9 founded by the nationalist Grundtivigians in the 1880s" Explained earlier.

Removed as repetitive.

• "appropriately named Tyler Street," Why is this appropriate?

Because it is in the town of Tyler, Minnesota.

• I'm puzzled by why you need to explain facts about the various buildings under "Danebod Historic Complex" only to repeat it right after in paragraphs about each building?

Removed the repetitive information.

• "Thorvaldsen's statue of Christ," Link his name, he is pretty famous.

Wikilinked to his name.

• " Its entrance wing is crenelated Medieval, but the rest of the building with its pedimented windows are closer to being Greek Revival." Anything these styles can be linked to?

I added links to crenellation and greek revival architecture.

• "An incredible work of masonry" and " is also an intimate venue" seems like promotional language.

Rephrased both of these to tone the language down.

• "established as an ordered collection of buildings set in a parklike site overlooking Lake Danebod." Only stated in the intro, which should not have unique info.

I dropped this sentence, there was some talk on the talk page about how this lake no longer exists anyway. And, as with other edits, I think saying the town it is in gives enough geographic context.

• " It was among the first Danish settlements in the U.S., along with Elk Horn, IA (founded in 1878), Ashland, WI (1882), West Denmark, WI (1884), Nysted, NE (1887), and Solvang, CA (1911).[6]" Likewise.

Removed. I may try to add it back into the history section of the article.

• "and one block south of Highway 14" Likewise.

I think saying it is in Tyler, Minnesota is sufficient geographic context. I removed this sentence.

• "Danebod is the oldest Danish settlement in the State of Minnesota," Mentioned twice in the intro.

I reworked the intro a bit to remove the repetition and better match the article itself.

• " Danebod stretches over parts of Hope Township, Marshfield Township, and Diamond Lake Township just before the rolling hills of Buffalo Ridge in southeastern parts of Lincoln County." Only stated in intro.

Again, there is enough geographic context. Removed.

• The following info was cut, but seems to have been fine? "The name Danebod originally meant in Danish "one who mends, comforts, or saves the Danes".

My accident! Added it back.

• Now I think it looks good, apart from the points where we need Niceley to look at the sources. As for folk school being capitalised or not, no big deal, but I was thinking it should only be capitalised when it is referred to as the name of the building, not just its function, but it can of course be hard to separate the two. FunkMonk (talk) 14:45, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I pinged Nicely on his talk page as well. I was able to find his sources on the "home of the nissemaend" paragraph through Google Books. Neither mentions the translation of "home of the santas" but instead seem to reference tomte. It's really a fact about the town of Tyler, not the Danebod complex, so I'm not sure that it should be included. Or maybe just as a sentence further down the article in the section talking about the town's ongoing connection to Danish culture. Nsteffel (talk) 15:48, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, as long as tomte/nisse is linked rather than Santa. FunkMonk (talk) 16:17, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Query

FunkMonk, Nsteffel, where does this review stand now? There hasn't been any activity in over three weeks (indeed, Nsteffel hasn't edited in that long), and Niceley hasn't responded to the source requests. It would be a shame if progress has stalled, and the nomination proves ultimately unsuccessful. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:44, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Regrettably I can't really speak authoritatively to the remaining questions without seeing the sources. For the tomte question, perhaps, but definitely not the quotations at the end of the "Establishment" subsection. I can try to ping Nicely again. Nsteffel (talk) 22:08, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

It is no problem for me to leave this open until everything is fixed. FunkMonk (talk) 09:25, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

I think this needs to proceed as if there will be no further input from Niceley, whose sole edit since the above was not here or to the article. And that appears to me to mean that there won't be any sourcing information from him. FunkMonk, Nsteffel, if particular passages cannot be sourced, the solution may be to remove them (or not, depending on how critical they are). In any event, the review has been open for two months already, and the stalemate needs to be broken. There's no shame in an article being B-class, if it doesn't quite achieve the GA criteria. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:56, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

I think removal of trivial statements that cannot be sourced or confirmed is ok, since there is still a lot of (more crucial) information left in the article. FunkMonk (talk) 16:58, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

So there are really two items left as far as I know. One is the paragraph under Etymology on the fact Danebod is sometimes called "the home of the Nissemænd." As mentioned above, the translation is wrong (it should refer to tomte, not santa) but more broadly I don't think it really belongs under Etymology either. Or that we need a whole paragraph about it. Perhaps I could condense this down to a quick sentence and place it down under Culture?

The other is the two penultimate sentences under History/Establishment where it talks about two hymns they sung and what Bible verse was preached at the colony's founding celebration. FunkMonk has raised a question about the Danish spelling of the hymn and requested information on the meaning of the verse being preached. Instead of guessing or editing blindly, we could just remove both statements and leave it at "On Sunday, June 28, 1885, the pioneers arranged a festival to celebrate the new colony."

Let me know your thoughts and if you agree that is all that remains. We can hopefully wrap this up very shortly after. Nsteffel (talk) 15:19, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

I think that sounds good. Seems like unnecessary detail anyway. FunkMonk (talk) 16:02, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

I've made those two edits just now. Nsteffel (talk) 02:02, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Certainly looks much better to me now, so I will go ahead and pass this. FunkMonk (talk) 07:52, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

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