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Archive 1Archive 2

Number of De Loreans produced

Why the discrepency between the 9,200 produced in the opening paragraphs to "At least one source indicates that only 8,583 DMC-12s were ever produced"? What's the first number's source and if there's a debate about the number produced, why? —Cleared as filed. 15:11, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Please look at footnotes 1, 2 and 3. (they are referenced in the last paragraph in the History ection). Thanks — Wackymacs 15:33, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. I think the article is sourced adequately but I still wonder why the discrepency exists. The two sources simply give two different numbers without explanation. Hmm. —Cleared as filed. 16:34, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


Spacing?

Why is a space being put between De and Lorean? The company's site says DeLorean, not De Lorean. Is there something I do not know here? —the preceding unsigned comment is by Cabazon (talk • contribs) 2006-01-03 13:26:39 (UTC)

Check out De_Lorean_Motor_Company#Delorean_vs._DeLorean_vs._De_Lorean for more on the naming "controversy". -- nae'blis (talk) 19:35, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Addition

I added a significant tidbit originally missing from this (great) article: despite being produced in Northern Ireland, no right-hand drive version of the car was ever provided. This limited the success of the car in the areas in which it was produced (in the island of Ireland, and of course in the UK, vehicles travel on the left side of the road, so right-hand drive vehicles are much more common and easier to drive).

Antóine O'Connor 01:01, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Ian Ryde?

"...and is also Mr Ian Ryde's favourite car in the world."

Who is Ian Ryde, and why should I care? -- Cottingham 01:29, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Back to the Future DeLorean

How about adding a pic of the DeLorean from Back to the Future near the reference? PrometheusX303 20:43, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Motor facts

A couple of minor quibbles: All other sources I've seen give the displacement of the B28F as 2.8L, not 2.66. Also, I've been told that the motor in the original prototype was a 1.8L Citroen turbocharged four-cylinder, not a rotary. Since this article has already been subject to substantial oversight, I wanted to bring this up before editing. Istewart 05:56, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Grand Theft Auto

There is no De Lorean in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, because the Grand Theft Auto series does not contain licensed cars. The De Luxo is almost certainly a reference to the vehicle (as are many of the game's cars), but it's not a DMC-12. It doesn't even have the distinctive 'gull' doors (probably for technical reasons).

Various third-party modifications add various real-world vehicles to the game, but these aren't official content. --81.86.106.14 22:54, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


I'm not sure how that counts. If it's not a DeLorean, it's not a DeLorean, whatever the copyright-infringement protections it is using to obscure the line. Does it have the gull-wing doors or not? If not, how do you know it's an "obvious replica"? This sounds like original research to me. -- nae'blis (talk) 15:41, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Here's a picture of the Deluxo. It does not, as I said, have the gull-wing doors. This is not a De Lorean. --152.78.71.87 19:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC) (same as 81.86.etc)

Also, the linked SegaGT 2002 article doesn't list the DMC-12. Can anyone confirm?

Given that someone appears to object to removing the entry by reverting changes (sigh), I've at least added a "lookalike" as for Wreckless. --81.86.106.14 23:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

It´s coming back

Apperantly a company in florida aquired the old drawings and other stuff. The plan to produce the DMC-12. The first car is supposed to roll in two months. http://shortnews.stern.de/start.cfm?overview=1&id=625719&rubrik1=Auto&rubrik2=Hersteller&rubrik3=US%2DModelle&sort=1&sparte=4 The link is in german, sorry. Maybe someone else can find information in english.

I doubt it will be affordable for any "normal" person though...*sigh*. FreddyE 06:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

http://www.autoweek.nl/newsdisp.php?ID=4975&cache=no It's a Dutch site but since I am Dutch I can understand it. Here is a translation:

The DeLorean is best known by the general public because of it's apearance in the "Back to the Future" movies. From 1981 to 1982 almost 10.000 models of this car have been build in North-Ireland. Founder John DeLorean allegedly was involved with a drug deal do to financial problems, which ment the end of the factory. According to rumors all the production machines we're dropped into the sea.
Tony Ierardi wants to restart production. Soon after the death of John DeLorean in 2005, he bought all the rights. Using the left over parts and the original buildplans, he thinks he can bring the car back into production. Target price on the American market should be arround $45.000,-.
The original DeLorean was powered by a pretty weak 2,8 Litre V6 which produced a measly 130 hp. With current technology we would expect the new DeLorean to have substantially more power, al tough nothing has been confirmed yet. The first cars should be produced this year.

Even with the same sized modern engine, it'll have allot more power then 130 hp. L33tj0s 10:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Removed content

I know for a fact Doc Brown said "Look out!", as opposed to "Quick, get out of the way!" 06:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It really doesn't matter, it doesn't have anything to do directly with the car itself, its just a quote from the movie. — Wackymacs 06:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't hurt either. 05:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Right. Restored a large chunk, (while still attempting to cut out the "cruft"), emphasizing the importance in pop culture being owed to its use in the Back to the Future movies. Don't really see what's wrong with that. Wavy G 05:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Inconcistency

“Around 8,583 DMC-12s were made before production fizzled in late 1982, with final production taking place in early 1983.” (Second paragraph) “A total of about 9,200 DMC-12s were produced between January 1981 and December 1982.[1], no confirmed records of the total production has surfaced, though it's believed that about 9,000 cars were built.” End of “History” -Ahruman 02:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Annother inconsistency- "Only 23 right-hand drive models were made for use in the United Kingdom, and as of 2002 these are valued at £25,000 each." "Only four right-hand drive De Loreans were ever produced, converted by specialized mechanics for use in the UK."

Redirecting to band?

Has anybody else noticed that a general search for "DeLorean" brings up the band. I'm pretty sure the car came out before, and in general it has been my experience as a Delorean owner that when somebody mentions or is talking about "Delorean" it's referring to the car, NOT the band. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.249.99.221 (talk) 00:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

Pop culture section, last paragraph. It mentions that cars featured in games are usually look-alikes and don't feature the De Lorean name and logo to avoid copyright issues. Shouldn't this be trademark issues? A name, after all, can't be copyrighted. I'll be changing it as soon as I've posted this. Eris Discord | Talk 06:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know who/why the external links for EVERYTHING but the following three sites are CONSTANTLY removed? "DeLorean Motor Company Official site" , "The DeLorean Connection" , and "Gold DeLorean Car of Texas" always remain after all links are cleaned up.

Earlier in the year, there were many club and personal Delorean project related links. They have been deleted three times in the past several months. The two most recent times were on: 23 March 2007 by an anonymous contributor from IP address 81.173.240.98 with the explanation of content edited "(External links)" and then again on 24 June 2007 by "Wackymacs" with the explanation of content edited "(External links - Removing link spam)"

Kind of annoying to have to put information back in for Delorean clubs, etc. I have noticed that the DOA, AZ-D, DCS, and DMA all regularly put our information back on the list rather promptly, but it’s a real annoyance.

Can anyone offer a decent explanation?


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Take a look at the Ford Mustang page or the Chevy Camaro page to get an idea of how it should be set up. DMage 02:17, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Dubious image source?

Hi. Image:De Lorean BTTF.jpg is used here, supposedly an original pic by a Wikipedia licenced under GFDL, but as the uploader has had a number of copyright/source problems, I'm wondering about the actual source of the image. Anyone know or recognize the image from elsewhere? Thanks, -- Infrogmation 18:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Can be quite hard to find the actual source but here is two URLs where is similar picture:
--— Typ932T | C  19:14, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. -- Infrogmation 22:15, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
What a shame, it seems that and most or all of the user's uploads were copyright violations with lies about having created them. I removed image from article. I hope we can get a genuine free licenced image, or if not a properly sourced fair use one. -- Infrogmation 22:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Delorean videos

Crashtest: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=571730 Museum visit: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DIoagnswqQI (funny one)

Olavxxx 09:04, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Repair shop

I removed the repair shops section as I felt it was pretty spammy. Wikipedia shouldn't be a place where people come looking for parts suppliers. Also it was unsourced regarding the supposed low price of parts. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 19:51, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Prototype finished when?

Both 1976 and 1978 are mentioned at different places throughout the article. Please check. -- 84.135.207.52 21:38, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Anyone? I thought Articles of the day would get some special attention? -- 84.135.200.147 18:38, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
I'd say the prototype was finished in 1978. — Wackymacs 19:17, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
I think it should be added somewhere that Delorean spent $600,000 to design and build the prototype. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.166.221 (talk) 11:50, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

DeLorean Safety and Prototype

I think that there should be a section in the article discussing the safety features of the Delorean and how the prototype had airbags and the production models didn't. I think there should be a general prototype section that talks about it's development and how it's different from the production models. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.166.221 (talk) 11:55, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


De Lorean today

I enjoyed this article more than I expected, but the "De Lorean today" section is disappointing. It's full of odd fancruft and unsourced POV. I don't know enough about the subject to sort wheat from chaff, but some well-placed edits by someone suitably informed would tighten up the only weakness of a good article. Soo 18:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

And what about the BBC TV series "Ashes to Ashes"....86.29.84.13 (talk) 21:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Seems particularly relevant, given this car's silver screen history, but thought I'd ask first anyway :) -- Quiddity (talk) 02:44, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. -- Quiddity (talk) 05:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Returning to former glory

How the mighty have fallen! I would very much like to see this article return back to FA status. I looked at the diff between the FA article and the current one [1]. Although it looks like a lot, if you manage to read past the Wiki software's relatively poor diff algorithms (matching on first occurrence rather than largest logical set), you'll see that its not really too far off from what it was before. There's really only two major gripes:

  • Way, way too much of the article relies on dmcnews.com, which is an amateur's website. While the information is all good, its not seen as completely reliable. Perhaps try to find out where this site got ITS information is in order.
  • There are short sections, specifically in regards to the new production line.

I think with a little work we can get this up to good status without much difficulty. From there, just a hop, skip, and jump back to FA. Anyone want to join me? -- ShinmaWa(talk) 15:05, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

FYI, I am rewriting this offline (as I was one of the main contributors who improved it to the old FA standards). It should be done in a month or two. — Wackymacs (talk ~ edits) 16:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Is there a way you can put this online, so that we all can collaborate and contribute to your efforts? -- ShinmaWa(talk) 17:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Here it is in all its glory:User:Wackymacs/DMC12. I know, I've only written one small paragraph (and I have yet to add a citation for that). I purchased two DeLorean books (the gold portfolio one, and his autobiography) which will both help a lot. Feel free to edit all you want. As you can see, I plan to add a lot of new information to the article. — Wackymacs (talk ~ edits) 17:16, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Porsche engines

"Six DMC-12s were co-opted for use in the making of the films. For the second and third films, producers replaced the underpowered stock engines in their production cars with Porsche engines."

I'm pretty sure that the BTTF producers didn't go to all the trouble involved in swapping in a Porsche engine in a DMC-12. There was a big discussion of this a while back on the DML (there or the DMCForum), and someone pointed out that you can see the DMC oilpan in BTTF3 when the car drives over the camera. I believe the producers simply dubbed a Porsche engine recording over the PRV's sound, which makes a WHOLE lot more sense than swapping the engines for the sake of a movie.

If anyone can confirm this, let's fix that.

AdmiralSenn 15:03, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I read somewhere that they actually changed the engines because the car didn't excelerate as fast as they wanted for the bit at the drive in in BTTF3 (And possibly others) wich would make sence, I was under the impression though that most of the cars had normal engines and that they had an interior car, a car for going fast, a car for normal driving and a car for exteriors without running gear which would come to 5 cars. I doubt that they would have six cars with engine swaps it just seems like a waste of expensive engines.(86.31.187.246 (talk) 13:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC))

Number of cars used in Back to the Future movies

I've now seen the number of cars used in the Back to the Future movies at four and six in this article, and as high as fifteen elsewhere. Which is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by AdmiralSenn (talk • contribs) 01:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

  • I have Back to The Future: The Official book of The Complete Movie Trilogy by Michael Klastorin and Sally Hibbin, London: Hamlyn, 1990. ISBN 0 60057104 1

    Quoting the book it says that, "Seven DeLoreans, including one 'process' car which can be dismantled for easy access, and a lightweight fibreglass model, were used in the filming. (pg 40)" In a later part of the chapter, in a separate paragraph of text, it clarifies with, "A lightweight, full-size fibreglass DeLorean was built, complete with radio-controlled wheels. This DeLorean was flown by wires with the aid of a crane.(pg 43)" So apparently the answer the studio gave to the writers of the official book—regarding the behind the scenes of the film—is 6 real cars (1 of the 6 pretty much being the semi-gutted one mentioned in the Wiki article) and 1 fibreglass mock-up for flying shots that required showing live actors interacting with the vehicle directly (eg. scenes in BTTFII where the DeLorean hovers above scenery with the door open such as when Marty jumps off of the roof or when doc lowers the rope of flags for Marty to grab on to close to the end of the film).—Maikeru Go (talk) 11:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Handedness

The intro states that no right-handed DMC-12s were ever made, yet later on the article goes on to state that 23 were made. Contradiction? Isopropyl 19:49, 31 July 2006 86.29.84.13 (talk) 21:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

That should be Right hand drive and not right handed as all the deloreans were right handed (A left handed car is one with the ignition on the left of the steering collom and and usually many of the controls repositioned around the wheel). Also all the RHD cars were conversions so it would be true to say all the DMC-12s were LHD but that some were converted by the factory as I imagine other people had cars converted in the early 80's especially in NI.(86.31.178.47 (talk) 13:49, 6 December 2008 (UTC))

According to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Automobiles/Conventions page, Popular Culture mentions are frowned upon and need to be removed to the respective owner, TV/Movie, or other page. DeLorean in popular culture needs to go per convention. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 09:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

The DeLorean is actually one of those vehicles that might be best known for its pop culture appearence. I think Back to the Future needs to be mentioned. Most of the other stuff can probably go though. --Leivick (talk) 10:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't think it needs to be axed or moved; I just think it needs to be limited. The pop culture section could amount to a list of 50,000 items. How about we seek a consensus as to how many and what criteria? I'd propose having a real reference as a minimal criteria to start. --MartinezMD (talk) 13:01, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I should remind that the article was a Featured Article; removal of the pop culture section would be a requirement to get it back into FA status. I quote:

The guideline that has been widely accepted for automotive subjects is that mention of pop-culture references should be strictly limited to cases where the fact of that reference influenced the sales, design or other tangible aspect of the vehicle. It is not sufficient to note that the vehicle had a major influence on its owner or some movie or TV show—such facts belong in the article about owner, movie or TV show.

However, I do offer a suggestion. If a reference can be provided that sales of the DMC-12 increased due to the films, then that could pass. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 22:05, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I didn't realize that was a criteria for FA status. if that's the case, it implies that Wikipedia prefers it that way and complaints from a minority can be overlooked if we remove it. Am I mistaken in this? --MartinezMD (talk) 01:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
You're not doing any favors right now considering how the article is. Also, look at the FA articles Maserati_MC12 and Holden_VE_Commodore. See also Wikipedia:TRIVIA.--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 02:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Well from the WP:Trivia and Wikipedia:Featured articles sections, popular and cultural references can be included where appropriate, but should not be otherwise. They also want references. I'd agree the DMC12 has reached some cultural iconic status from its distinct design and media appearances, but that would be sufficiently covered with all the Back to the Future information. Also, I'm not sure what you were trying to communicate to me with 'not doing any favors'. ??? I'd like to hear why we need a section that is simply a list of appearances. I am agreeing with Leivick on this point. --MartinezMD (talk) 03:26, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I was bold. Following the above logic and the requirement of not having a popular culture section for featured status, I migrated the historical data into the body of the article, removed the residual culture, and changed the section to the very notable Back to the Future topic.--MartinezMD (talk) 04:35, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Why not have a separate page that the main DeLorean page links to for DeLorean Art and culture?
Go for it.--MartinezMD (talk) 00:19, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

We mention movies that honor this car. Why not all forms of art?

Why limit the appreciation of the DeLorean to one medium- movies. Specifically the Back to the Future Movies.

Shouldn't all art forms, that pay tribute to this car, be presented as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.16.160.178 (talk) 22:16, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

We don't need to mention every time a DeLorean is seen in a movie, tv show or any other form of media. That would be like listing every time a tomato pops up in the media on the tomato page. The DeLorean's appearence in the Back to the Future movies was a significant event that effected public perception of the vehicle. --Leivick (talk) 03:35, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. When the art form becomes a 3-film multi-million dollar major movie series, I say include it. Until then, other examples don't have the same level of significance.--MartinezMD (talk) 03:54, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Delorean production date...

I want the delorean production date to be changed from 1981-1982 to 1983-1983... This is a big misconception... Deloreans WHERE PRODUCED IN 1983 and i want the lies on this page fixed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.177.40.163 (talk) 12:23, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a source? swaq 17:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
The LA times article says that the vehicle was only produced in 81 and 82. --Leivick (talk) 21:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
The confusion is because actual production ended late in '82 (December) but were called 83 models by the manufacturer. This is common in auto industry. The sources do agree actual production ended in December 1982. "The last time a DeLorean was rolled off the assembly line was 1982" http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/back-to-the-present/delorean-going-back-into-production-284252.php as opposed to this statement: "the last few cars were considered 1983 models" http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2009/03/17/delorean-motor-company-kiss-me-i-was-irish/ --MartinezMD (talk) 22:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


Performance

The majority of this section is unreferenced and any changes made cannot be verified. Anyone care to review and add sources? --MartinezMD (talk) 03:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Right Hand Drive

Does the article really need this much information about the roughly less than 20 conversions that were done to make RHD versions of this car. I mean little was even known about these random D's years ago, now we know much more but this whole section could be condensed to 4 sentences while focusing on more important information about the car not post-production modifications. Anyone agree? Probably not, I won't change anything. Case (talk) 04:13, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Turbo charged Deloreans

I note that there is no reference to the twin-turbocharged DMC-12's that were produced. With the dissappointment in the de-tuned, exhaust strangled American road-approved vehicle performance, there were a number of factory models with twin turbos affixed. Performance was bolstered considerably but I understand that they were very difficult to keep tuned. Anyone have more and accurate info on how many of these were built (by the factory) and what the final hp output was? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.100.227.40 (talk) 16:12, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

DMC-12 Design by Giorgetto Giugiaro

Issue here that sources confirm that the design is by Giorgetto Giugiaro:

see also this article in en.wiki: Giorgetto Giugiaro


ciao ;) --Pava (talk) 12:34, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

the basic body structure was also used by lotus, which was actually also used in a Jamed Bond movie as a car which could go under water Markthemac (talk) 12:44, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/File:TSWLM-LotusEsprit.jpg funny Markthemac (talk) 12:47, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
I can see some similarities to the car (it was from The Spy Who Loved Me) but do you have a reference? It would be interesting to include it if this is accurate.MartinezMD (talk) 14:02, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
i saw a documentary that they retro-fitted the doors onto a lotus esprit, and according to this page it's very similar to the lotus esprit spec wise: http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EHistory/DeLorean.html Markthemac (talk) 23:44, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:DeLorean Motor Company which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 03:00, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Do we have a source for this?

Currently, the article claims John DeLorean was 6 ft 4 in (193 cm) tall, and he designed the car to comfortably fit someone of his stature. For shorter people, the addition of a pull strap made closing the doors much easier from the inside. Pull straps were manufactured as an add-on for earlier vehicles in November 1981. These attach to the existing door handle. Late-model 1981 cars, and all cars from 1982 and 1983, have doors with integrated pull straps.

I am something between 6'4" and 6'5" (195 cm) tall, and today I had the opportunity to sit in one of these cars.

While I can confirm that I once I sat in it, I could easily reach the door handle without needing to get up from the seat or needing to use the pull strap, it was extremely hard to get in and out of the car, and I didn't dare closing the door for fear of hitting my head against the part that aligns with the roof.

Sitting in the driver's seat, my knees were to the left and to the right of the steering wheel with less than an inch of space to the left and to the right, and I couldn't stretch my legs all the way. This was with the seat in the rearmost position (at least I couldn't find a way to make the seat budge any more backwards).

So either the size of Mr. DeLorean is off, or the design wasn't for people his size. Now, I realize that this is WP:OR by me, but I'd love to see a reference for the claim that is currently presented in the article, as I strongly doubt its factual accuracy. -- 188.105.138.92 (talk) 20:03, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Tagged so it's visible --No qwach macken (talk) 02:46, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Why "12"

I don't see this in the article - does anyone know why it's called the "12", and not, say, "1" or even "6"? Maury Markowitz (talk) 23:08, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

article claims original retail price was set at 12k — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.115.69.40 (talk) 15:49, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Section on cultural references?

Might be interesting to include such a section. Mentioned by Kanye West in the song "Good Morning" as a reference to Back to the Future; appears in a video for Macklemore's song "Thrift Shop"; I'm sure there are others. Baseballbaker23 (talk) 00:38, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

There's also a Raising Hope episode centered around the DeLorean, for the record. --Xiaphias (talk) 20:29, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

such a section would be blown up out of proportion, however it's noteworthy that the dmc has become iconic and often is chosen to represent the 1980s period — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.115.69.40 (talk) 15:52, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The "A" in "Big Lots!"

It seems the author of the content that explains who finished production of the final DMC-12 autos produced had forgotten to use the complete name of the parent company. So just giving fair warning so that their won't be any surprises when I add Arsewholesalers, or possibly Arseholes, as soon as I find out which word the official company "Consolidated International" actually used as a name, way back when, for future referencing (and possible biblical text of the new world scriptures story of can and will, instead of just being Abel)Dirtclustit (talk) 22:15, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Torsion bar reference

I don't think the current torsion bar link discusses the torsion bar that is used on the doors to assist in it's opening. All torsion bar links I have seen on this page refer to a torsion bar as a "torsion suspension" which, from reading, is a totally separate thing. Can we please stop linking this until we find the right torsion bar page to link to? --delorean3 07:55, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

DeLorean3 is quite right. Indeed the word "Torsion" can be defined as "The imposition of a load on to an object to cause it to twist"; this is how torsion bar suspension functions. The link DeLorean3 is looking for is Anti-intrusion bar. Dave seer (talk) 15:37, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

DeLorean has a hidden safe?

I was told by a mechanic that the DeLorean has a hidden safe (vault) in the car.

Any truth to this?

I assume this is just folklore due to the alleged drug trafficking tie-in with this vehicle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.65.91.78 (talk) 19:54, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

There is a lockable storage compartment behind the driver's seat which is often referred to as the 'driver's safe'. Whilst not exactly 'hidden' it is not immediately obvious it's there...

DMC Texas relevance

Does this section have any relevance to the article? DMC Texas (like other DeLorean repair shops) offer refurbished/rebuilt DeLoreans. The section on an electric DeLorean is of no more relevance than any other vehicle where a shop has replaced the original engine with something different. How is this of any relevance to this article? Furthermore, the section has evolved into discussion surrounding a lawsuit settlement. Expandinglight5 (talk) 21:23, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

I disagree. The section has several sources, the company is building/assembling the vehicle, had a notable lawsuit against it, then acquired the rights to use the name. It seems very relevant.MartinezMD (talk) 08:44, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

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More Special DMC-12s

Because I am still a novice at editing, (don't know if these is suitable for addition to the article) so im putting these here for discussion

  • The factory had experimented with dying the interior Burgundy and light blue, VIN 10454 & 10455
  • Canadian/Middle east Deloreans, They are special only due to their low numbers (88 Canadian deloreans for example) & are the only markets outside of the U.S. Deloreans were sold. Unlike the US counterparts they came with Instrument clusters in Metric instead of imperial.

MattSwanton (talk) 01:04, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider the Canadian DeLoreans noteworthy enough to go in the Special DMC section... more like on a similar tier as the RHD DeLoreans. Arguably these would be listed in a section above the RHD DeLorean but aside from the gauge cluster in kmh instead of mph, is there anything else noteworthy about the car? Perhaps if the Canadian cars had a much higher price (accounting for foreign exchange of USD vs CAD at the time). Usually Canadian cars are no different than their US counterpart.

Expandinglight5 (talk) 04:09, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes I agree then that should the Canadian/Middle East cars be mentioned in the article. It shouldn't be in the special category, as it is just more trivia about a small group of production cars not bound for the US market. To confirm the only major difference is the metric instrument cluster, although Canadian cars at least also came with front license plate brackets and a "Complies with radio interference regulations" plate above the VIN plate in the driver's side door jab, but those two things aren't exclusive to Canadian cars. (Some US cars had them), Canadian cars have 17XXX vin numbers. In summary the instrument cluster and belonging to small group is the only thing that makes them "special"

But the two different color interiors are noteworthy, aside from facebook posts/images on the internet, pictures and info on these cars were published in "Delorean: Celebrating the Impossible" ISBN-13: 978-0992859404 page 345

MattSwanton (talk) 23:48, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

As for the interior, instead of placing in special DMC section, perhaps an Interior section for section 2.4. Section could explain standard black vs gray along with the brown interior planned for 1984 model (as seen in some Amex Deloreans) along with discussion of these alternate colors. Expandinglight5 (talk) 05:05, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

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DeLorean had a "safe"

I've heard that DeLoreans have a "safe" - (ie. "safe" as in metal box you'd put money in., etc.)

I didn't know if this was true so didn't want add it to the article cuz it sounds like BS to me. 139.138.69.196 (talk) 22:22, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

It was called a "safe" but is really a small locking compartment behind the seat. Here's a link to some photos. MartinezMD (talk) 01:00, 25 February 2018 (UTC) http://www.babbtechnology.com/pics/3472images/inside/pg5.htm

Suggest changing the name of the car, adding explanation

This is going to be a long, uphill battle. The pre-production, working name of the car was the DMC-12. However, every production car made by DeLorean Motor Company was called, simply: DeLorean. This fact has been confirmed by DeLorean Motor Company of Houston, TX by James Espey.

I have noticed that Wikipedia is a fantastic medium for the correction of historical inaccuracies, no matter how well entrenched. So I will begin here.


Auxilary facts: The name DMC-12 appears in at least 2 places on the production car-- two very hidden places, and they were placed there by vendors who produced parts for the car, not by the Dunmurray plant. Many publications referred to the car as the DMC-12. Most were printed before mass production of the car began. Look at the Model-box on the window sticker. For every car that DMC produced, the window sticker read "DeLorean" in the box for the model. This is notable because 1) the window sticker is a legal document 2) that is produced by the manufacturer and is therefore in their control, and it was made 3) at the time that the car was actually in production, and 4) is a published part of the public record. Additionally, there is no document from the thousands of printed pages and memos from the time of the production of the vehicle that calls the car the DMC-12. All three distinct model-year editions of the Owner's Manual makes no reference to DMC-12, instead calling the car the DeLorean or De Lorean.

There are two great inertias at work here: First, the car is many orders of magnitude more famous than there are actual numbers of cars in existence. And people, even car people, have known it as the DMC-12 for more than three decades. Second, there is an enormous amount of published information calling it the DMC-12... all of it using each other as sources. The names of cars don't tend to be wrong, so no one ever checks.

Make: DeLorean Motor Company, or DMC

Model: DeLorean, or De Lorean

Like other ubiquitous cars, it's best referred to simply by the model name: Mustang, Corvette... DeLorean.

Other such car names: the BMW Bavaria [Bavaraian Motor Works Bavaria]. Not too different from the DMC DeLorean [DeLorean Motor Company DeLorean.] Also oddly named, the Enzo Ferrari, not the Ferrari Enzo, and not the Ferrari Enzo Ferrari.

Timnmnangers (talk) 02:43, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. The article very clearly addresses the name issue. MartinezMD (talk) 11:12, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
I appologize, but I don't see what you might be referring to. There are scores of incorrect name references, including the title of the article. I'm proposing that the name of the car not be listed anywhere as DMC-12, except to speak of pre-production cars and erroneously believed names. Timnmnangers (talk) 05:21, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Admittedly I'm going by the secondary sources, but you would think the DeLorean museum[1] would not make up the information and the name is then further supported by several other sources like NADA, the Road & Track vintage test, etc. Our article says "The DeLorean DMC-12 (commonly referred to simply as "the DeLorean", as it was the only model ever produced by the company" and "The car was named the DMC-12 because of its intended price of US$12,000" not attributed but presumably sourced from the museum article (we can formally cite it). So for me that addresses the name. I do see your point however. I am opposed to the changing the name because of this information, but I am open to editors' input. MartinezMD (talk) 07:03, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://web.archive.org/web/20151006112343/http://www.deloreanmuseum.org/car.html

I am also impressed with how pervasive the incorrect name of DMC-12 is. As far as the name of the car is concerned, the only thing that can be considered official is legal documents and internal documents of DMC Inc and DMCL. Especially when we are writing definitive articles on Wikipedia, only the highest and most core sources should be considered cannon. Secondary and outside sources all copy and paste from each other. Indeed, the DeLorean Museum writer may have coppied his information from a 1981 Car and Driver, or some such. In October, I sent an email pursuant to this matter to James Espey, VP of DMCH and an affiliate of the DeLorean Museum. He confirmed to me on 10/28/2018 that, "DMC-12 was never intended to be more than an internal 'code name'."

The DMC-12 moniker found its way to an eager automotive press that was reporting on this car for years before it came out. The automotive press sometimes were not careful to rename the car to its production name, the DeLorean, when the car finally debuted. It's possible that no express statement was ever made to them alerting them to the change. Those publications subsequently lead to the copy and paste errors that persist to this day, including by NADA, the DeLorean Museum, and Wikipedia. The window sticker, which is an important federal document with high legal status that is also an officially and contemporaneously produced official document of DMC, explicitly names the car the DeLorean. Thus, I do take exception to the idea that the car is merely "commonly" referred to as the DeLorean. It is properly referred to as the DeLorean, and erroneously referred to as the DMC-12. People like the in-the-know nature of using the DMC-12 code. I see it regularly used among DeLorean aficionados like a secret handshake; proof that one is an insider. But such identity-defining things can bias one toward fallacious beliefs.

Your standard of proof is understandably high. Extraordinary claims, as they say. But The DeLorean Museum, while reputable, is a secondary source; and it was bad form for them to write an article and not cite any primary sources, or even sign the article, in the process. All properly conducted research should chain back to a primary source. We can easily check primary sources ourselves, in the forms of the window stickers and owner's manuals for all three model years, and internal documents of DMC. In addition to looking through primary documentation, if you were to hear from James Espey yourself that the car is not called the DMC-12, would you correct the article?

Timnmnangers (talk) 21:53, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

While you may very well be right, WP:PSTS favors secondary sources over primary sources. Espey's information would be useful only if printed in a reliable source, not a direct communication with us individually (which would be considered original research) - e.g. a letter published in Road & Track, an addendum to the current DeLorean company's website FAQ section, etc. Something like that would warrant reversing the current naming summary and history MartinezMD (talk) 22:43, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Please respond to the numerous comments I've made about the smoking gun in this discussion: The Window Sticker. It is the absolute gold standard above any other source. By intent and by law, it is the utterly definitive and final word in the name of this car. The model name of the car becomes an immutable matter of federal law when the car is released for public sale. I'll transcribe that law here:

US Code Title 15, Ch. 28, Sect. 1232(a) "Every manufacturer of new automobiles distributed in commerce shall, prior to the delivery of any new automobile to any dealer, or at or prior to the introduction date of new models delivered to a dealer prior to such introduction date, securely affix to the windshield, or side window of such automobile a label on which such manufacturer shall endorse clearly, distinctly and legibly true and correct entries disclosing the following information concerning such automobile-

(a) the make, model, and serial or identification number or numbers;

http://uscode.house.gov/browse/prelim@title15/chapter28&edition=prelim

In short, the window sticker is the birth certificate of the car, and bears just as much legal weight. And like a birth certificate, whatever the window sticker says is the name of the car-- that is the name of the car.

Timnmnangers (talk) 18:30, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

The Monroney sticker and other documentation does not refer to the vehicle as the DMC-12, rather simply it's the DeLorean. However other Wikipedia pages exist using the internal designation as the article title. Please see the Porsche 996 and Porsche 997 as examples. Both cars are marketed and sold as a Porsche 911.Expandinglight5 (talk) 01:19, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. In this case, DMC-12 was not an internal code for a production car. Instead, DMC-12 was the last in a series of pre-production monikers, and its use by the Company ceased with the onset of production. And when you read this Wikipeida article, it makes no attempt to claim that DMC-12 is an internal reference; it clearly and erroneously claims that it is the model name of the production car. DMC-12 was simply and only a temporary pre-production name. So while it is absolutely true that Wikipedia articles use internal codes in their titles, no Wikipedia article claims that an internal code is the model name, and certainly no Wikipedia article refers to a production car by its preproduction name as though it were its production model name.

Interesting point of fact: James Espey's book "The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to DeLorean Automobiles" makes not even one reference to "DMC-12." If DMC-12 were the model name, consider this: How extraordinary would a book have to be to concern itself entirely with one model of car, and never once mention its name?

Given that I have been able to present unassailable legal evidence, we should now consider this case to be closed. I believe the author of the article should maintain the honor of primary editing to correct this issue, and I'm willing to help if he does not wish to dedicate the time.

Timnmnangers (talk) 04:48, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

I think you have made a proposal that 2 editors opposed with WP policy reliable source examples. You've gotten no supportive comments from another editor, and in only less than 2 weeks have unilaterally declared the issue of a standing 12-year-old title closed. I would say you are premature if nothing else on this issue. Let other editors comment. Then if there is still lack of consensus, there should be a request for comment made. MartinezMD (talk) 05:58, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

You're not going to find a wealth of comments on a page that no one is looking at but those of us in this discussion. The thing about facts is that they're not subject to popular vote. I'd be happy to round up a bunch of people to agree that I've made a case and no one else has, but that doesn't change the fact that I've made the only case, and it's iron-clad. I have provided legal documentation (which has long been posted in the article itself) and federal statutes, chapter and verse, that give force to the legal documentation. From a Wikipedia standpoint, it gets no better than that. It is irrefutable, no matter how long we wait. And in addition to providing no facts to the contrary, I've seen almost no effort to respond to the individual points I've made. What we have here is a case of squatters' rights, at best. And whether this article has been wrong for 20 minutes or 100 years, it should be corrected. Timnmnangers (talk) 09:15, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

I agree with leaving the poll open longer. I have a few DeLorean books I would like to go through to see if I can find further information regarding naming. Barring a substantial influx of further information, I would prefer to leave this open for another month or two. Expandinglight5 (talk) 17:18, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

When reading the book, DeLorean Gold Portfolio (ISBN 1-85520-331-6), there is an article published from Car and Driver magazine on beginning on page 44. The author, Don Sherman writes, “Any preview of today’s DeLorean must begin with a clean sweep of all memory banks. Forget the gossip you’ve read, here and elsewhere. Cancel the DMC-12 name. Cancel the adventure-some elastic reservoir molding (ERM) manufacturing process. Cancel the unit construction plastic chassis. Cancel all previous Ford V-6 and Citroen turbo-four engine possibilities. Cancel any wish for a mid-engine layout. Cancel the airbags, 10-mph bumpers, Pirelli P7 tires. While you’re at it, eradicate any notion that todays’ DeLorean an American car.”

This paragraph indicates there were many intentions of the original design that did not make it to the production version, specifically the DMC-12 name. This would support the notion that the DMC-12 name which was first referenced long before a prototype was constructed, was not in place upon going into production and the correct name of the vehicle is simply the “DeLorean.”

All magazine tests conducting road tests or comparisons after the car was released all refer to the car as a DeLorean.

In reviewing the December 1981 issue of Road and Track, the car is never referred to as a DMC 12. Throughout the article, the car is always referred to as a DeLorean. The summary of the road test is titled “DeLorean.”

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/reviews/a27099/1982-delorean-dmc-12-road-test/

Marketing brochures, owners manuals and other materials from DMC only refer to the vehicle as a DeLorean: http://www.auto-brochures.com/makes/delorean/delorean_US%201981.pdf http://www.auto-brochures.com/makes/delorean/delorean_US%201981-flyer-1.pdf http://www.auto-brochures.com/makes/delorean/delorean_US%201981-flyer-2.pdf http://oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/DeLorean/1981_DeLorean/1981DeLoreanFoldout/1981%20DeLorean-a02.html. http://oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/DeLorean/1981_DeLorean/1981_Delorean_Owners_Manual/dirindex.html

The above information supports that the correct name of the vehicle is simply the DeLorean.

I would favor mentioning the DMC-12 intended name in the current History section of the article or in a newly created “Preliminary Design” section of the article. This would be a suitable place to spin-off the DMC-12 name, other early engine options (i.e Rotary 10A, Ford powerplants, etc.), alternate production facilities planned for Detroit, Puerto Rico prior to selecting Northern Ireland and other early plans drafted in the early to mid 70’s later abandoned prior to going into production into a separate section rather than being lumped in with general history of the vehicle. Expandinglight5 (talk) 21:43, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

The book DeLorean Stainless Steel Illusion by John Lamm (ISBN 0-9744141-0-7) on page 60 shows photographs of the first DeLorean prototype from March 1977 of the "DMC-12" and notes in the caption "the DMC-12 as it was then known" indicating this was only the name of prototype not the production version. On page 94, it reads, "The DMC-12 designation may have been dropped in favor of Sports Car..." Further clarifying the prorotype name of DMC-12 had been revised. It would make sense to drop the "12" moniker for the production name especially considering the 12 indicated a price that never materialized. The book states the marketed name is the "DeLorean Sports Car" Expandinglight5 (talk) 23:13, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

For Timnmnangers, I have no objection to correcting any error regarding any WP article. I am not opposed to a name change, I am simply looking for consensus before making a major change to an article.Expandinglight5 has added an excellent addition to this discussion. And as for squatters' rights, this is not WP:BLP where there is need for expediency in making a change. We have the luxury of discussing the issue, proposing a change and addressing the associated issues (such as the history of this DMC-12 name, even if brief since it appears in several sources), and getting it right. MartinezMD (talk) 02:58, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Good, Thanks. I do contend that in a case such as this, democratic voting is inappropriate. We don't seek consensus on whether two and two make four. As for his comment, I already responded to why the parallel in logic is not there. Please see my response below his. Timnmnangers (talk) 18:28, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

What are the thoughts on discussing the DMC-12 vs Delorean name as a section in the article under the proposed preliminary design section? This would likely prevent other editors from accidentally changing names in the article back to DMC-12 and help avoid corrective editing along with further educating readers about the naming history of the vehicle. Expandinglight5 (talk) 19:03, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't know if we'd need a separate section. I would think it should only take 2 or 3 sentences at most to explain the common DMC-12 name. I'll see what you guys think. I would change the lead sentece to something like "The DeLorean is a sports car originally manufactured by John DeLorean's DeLorean Motor Company for the American market from 1981 to 1983 ". Then in the second paragraph change what's there to something like "During development, the prototype was known as the DMC-12" using Lamm as a source, and we add a sentence or two about the $12,000 goal and how several sources incorrectly identify the car as the "DMC-12" etc. Also generally change DMC-12 in the article to the DeLorean, with exceptions if needed (we'd have to see if any were referring to the pre-production prototype) MartinezMD (talk) 19:30, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

I agree that not much has to be made of the name DMC-12 vs DeLorean, but because the misconception so widespread that it is the de facto rule, a line that explains explicitly why it's "DeLorean" or "De Lorean" (with a space, as most DMC documentation had it-- even though John DeLorean's own tombstone does not have a space) is definitely called for. Wikipedia does not like language like "Common misconception" [by whom?], but something that at least refers to the Monroney as a legal document, and the Owner's Manual. Timnmnangers (talk) 22:26, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

If we're in agreement that between the Monroney sticker and company issued documents (owners manual, marketing materials, etc.) prove the name is DeLorean not DMC-12, then feel free to update the article. Expandinglight5 (talk) 23:05, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

I think we need to include Lamm and/or any other appropriate source to address DMC-12. It'll keep coming up otherwise. Too many secondary sources use the incorrect name. Do you happen to have any others like it? MartinezMD (talk) 23:36, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

These are the key items that I was able to source. I have a few other places to look but I don't know if it will yield any additional information. I agree with Timnmnangers that the best proof is the Monroney sticker which already has a pic in the article. That combined with the links to the owners manual, brochure, etc. should be adequate sources. You can cite Lamm but that's more supportive in terms of the DMC-12 name being replaced prior to entering production but the previously mentioned information shows the actual name. Lastly, where is the proof that DMC-12 is correct? We've cited numerous sources and documents that support the name "DeLorean" is correct but nowhere in the article is there any link to support the name "DMC-12." "DMC-12" is not on any badge on the car, brochures, bill of sale, etc. Logically it doesn't even make sense for a production name to reference a number (12) as a reference to a target price which never even came to be. My opinion would be that we have sufficient information to support "DeLorean" as the correct name. If other parties feel "DMC-12" is correct they will need to cite sources. I've found none.

This is part of the reason why I suggested to create a section addressing the name and citing the sources and the background. Otherwise, to your point, it will keep coming up. Expandinglight5 (talk) 02:17, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

The problem was simply that historically reliable sources (Car and Diver, Road & Track, NADA, and presumably the DeLorean museum) apparently were all incorrect. Someone in the future could cite Car & Driver "featuring an ad for a DeLorean DMC-12 plated in 24-karat gold", NADA "1982 Delorean DMC-12 Gullwing Prices and Values", etc. So unless we refute this error preemptively with something like Lamm or an equivalent, this error could be reintroduced later (as none of us lives forever). MartinezMD (talk) 02:45, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

My suggestion is to update the article and provide the support available. If I can find further sources, I will add at a subsequent date. Expandinglight5 (talk) 16:53, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

It's definitely useful acknowledge the widespread nature of this misconception, and to provide explanation for why it exists. It's a worthwhile point that it is very strange that such a misconception exists at all. That C&D quote (above) about "...forget DMC-12..." is a very nice connection-- it states in one phrase that it used to be correct and no longer is. Timnmnangers (talk) 19:05, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
What is the best way to present the title of the article?: DeLorean, DMC DeLorean, DeLorean (automobile), etc. Timnmnangers (talk) 19:14, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
Maker then model name seems to be pretty standard, e.g. Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Corvette, etc. So I would suggest DMC DeLorean. The entries with parenthesis are used to disambiguate when there is another article with the same name. If you care to do the honors, go right ahead. MartinezMD (talk) 19:33, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
: : If the name DeLorean was intended to be a brand, then it would be correct to simply have DeLorean similar to Edsel. The DeLorean or DeLorean Sports Car was the first under the DeLorean brand with a 4 door to follow which presumably would have been DeLorean Sedan, then it would be more correct to have DeLorean not DMC DeLorean. Expandinglight5 (talk) 21:26, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't think it's appropriate to infer branding or a model naming system that DMC might or might not have been trying to establish with the choice to call their first model "DeLorean." For this article, I think "DMC DeLorean" is consistent with the clear and widespread Make-Model approach to identifying a car. The last thing we need here it to introduce another source of ambiguity. Timnmnangers (talk) 05:20, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

That's fine. If further evidence arises, we can address it at that time. Feel free to go ahead with the name change of the article.Expandinglight5 (talk) 19:07, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

It looks like the option to move the page (to change the name) is not available to me. I made the simple name change edits in the article, and a couple of incidental (usually one-word) edits for clarity. I did not add any language at the top about DMC-12, but there is a section later in the article that mentions it, so I added two words to that section. Timnmnangers (talk) 06:46, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

It's administratively protect for some reason. I've put in an official request to move the name on our behalf. MartinezMD (talk) 19:02, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

I struggled with this topic myself before this discourse. I salute you, gentlemen, in your commitment to research and logic in the face of overwhelming, widely held belief. Timnmnangers (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

So, are you going to take up this gauntlet on the John DeLorean page too? MartinezMD (talk) 05:13, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
It's the right thing to do. I haven't looked at it yet. Timnmnangers (talk) 19:24, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
I think I fixed all the names on the John DeLorean page Expandinglight5 (talk) 09:22, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

After rereading the article from top to bottom, I made some clarifying statements in the second paragraph to define how DMC-12 is correctly used. I also clarified in the info box that DMC was headquartered in NYC to establish DMC explicitly as an American car company, and implicitly one that was not located in Detroit. Any objections or comments? Timnmnangers (talk) 19:22, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

No objection to the factual content. I would suggest, however, putting it in the history section to avoid duplication as well as keeping the citations. MartinezMD (talk) 22:11, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Noted. I'll do that. Timnmnangers (talk) 05:08, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Production

Should this section be deleted from the article? The fact that no official records exist from the factory, any information in this section (cited or not) is at best an educated guess.

Thoughts? Expandinglight5 (talk) 06:03, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

We have sources for the last paragraph as it currently stands, excluding what the anon IP editor has been adding. The middle paragraph needs sourcing or it should go. First paragraph needs the second sentence deleted imho. MartinezMD (talk) 06:10, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

FYI, the citation for the final paragraph covers the middle paragraph as well. Expandinglight5 (talk) 06:08, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Would you formalize that for us? I can if not. I also reported the anon IP editor who keeps adding the unsourced data. MartinezMD (talk) 06:31, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Gold Delorean image

What do you guys think about this image as a replacement for the current gold Delorean image? Obviously its more cut off on the edges than the current one but its arguably a better angle and the quality is higher. Do y'all think it would be an overall better image or not really? TKOIII (talk) 21:14, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

It is definitely a better image imho. MartinezMD (talk) 23:19, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Agreed it's a higher quality image. As long as it's in fair use, I'm fine with it. Expandinglight5 (talk) 00:37, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

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