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The problem is that the previous version is quite biased, since it claims couscous was introduced to Europe by France when there are much more reliable sources stating it was introduced by the Almohads in Al-Andalus and in Italy (Sicily, Sardinia) long before. I believe we need a more neutral view in the lead. What do you think? Dido789 (talk) 01:29, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It pushes the view that couscous was introduced to European cuisine via France during the 20th century, “It was integrated into French and European cuisine at the beginning of the twentieth century”. This is completely false, as it was first introduced via the Almohads in Al-Andalus and then made it’s way into Italian cuisine in Sicily and Sardinia in the 18th century, much before the 20th century when France was in Algeria. I added more reliable sources for this. The sources stating it was introduced to European cuisine via France are also all in French, and not in English! It’s very weird!!! Dido789 (talk) 01:40, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a difference between being integrated into a cuisine and being consumed once a year as a novel dish (Sicily). Besides, Andalusia was part of the Muslim west and not Europe. M.Bitton (talk) 01:43, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That’s just one of the sources. There were others too. There are others already cited in the article that clearly state it was a popular dish in Italy in the 18th century, much before France was in Algeria. If you check you will find it. Dido789 (talk) 02:41, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In this source (https://www.sanpellegrino.com/uk/sparkling-drinks/zesty-food/couscous-alla-trapanese) it also states: “Sicilian cuisine is very diverse, as it has been influenced by the many cultures that visited its wonderful land in ancient times. Couscous is a very important example. Couscous is typically a traditional Moroccan dish, but while in the African coast it is prepared with meat and vegetables, in Sicily - and more precisely in Trapani - it is seasoned with fresh fish caught in the Mediterranean Sea.” Dido789 (talk) 02:44, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Another unreliable vendor source. This is already covered adequately in the history section of the article. We don't need a badly sourced version in the lead section. MrOllie (talk) 02:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, this is already covered in the history section with a good citation to a book from a reputable academic publisher. We don't need and should not use vendor blog posts and mass-market cookbooks. MrOllie (talk) 02:53, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The sources are clearly in disagreement. I don't understand the point of the infobox attributing the origin to Numidia? It's like considering the other sources not important. 102.52.34.162 (talk) 22:26, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The sources indicate different geographic regions and time periods not as potential birthplaces of couscous, but rather as evidence of its presence in those regions during those times. Among these sources, Numidia is notably the earliest documented historical tracing, thus warranting its designation as the origin in the infobox. sloth (talk) 10:09, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please correct the information about cuscuz paulista -- it is not steamed and decorated with orange slices. It is coarse cornmeal cooked in tomato sauce with bell peppers, green peas and corn kernels, forming a thick paste that is then pressed in a mold and decorated with shrimp or sardines, tomatoes and hard-boiled egg slices. 184.144.114.14 (talk) 18:40, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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under "preparation", paragraph 4, line 1 - change "in French language" to either "in French" or "in the French language". Tskym (talk) 15:10, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@M.Bitton You reverted my edit about the inclusion of couscous in Israeli cuisine through Jewish immigration from North-Africa. Your reason was "It's no more popular there than it is in other places around the world (see previous discussions)". I disagree with this revert. The reliable sources I brought specifically mention it as popular in Israel (e.g. "is now popular in many Mediterranean states such as Israel, Italy and France"). I can bring more sources if needed. I also don't see in this talk page any previous discussion regarding the inclusion of couscous in Israeli cuisine (only about "ptitim" which is a completely different thing).
PS looking again I see that you have said something about this before. I'll respond later.
Maghrebis consume it wherever they are around the world (which is everywhere), so why should Israel (which has had no impact on the history of Couscous) be mentioned in the history section? M.Bitton (talk) 20:42, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Couscous is popular in Israel not only among Maghrebis, but among the entire population. It has become a significant dish in Israeli cuisine, probably as important as it is in France. I'm not sure how these things are measured, but the sources I have indicate that. (And I can also testify from personal experience as an Ashkenazi Jew who loves and prepares couscous). Also Israel probably has the largest Maghrebi population in the world outside of Africa and France. In fact the percentage of Maghrebis in Israel is probably larger than their percentage in France. Vegan416 (talk) 21:04, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It's also popular in many European countries (not only among Maghrebis). I checked the first source that you cited and it certainly doesn't make it sound like it's more important than everywhere else.
I think it can be proven that it is more popular in Israel than anywhere else out of the Maghreb itself (and maybe France). Since you don't want to look at all the sources I brought, I'll have to copy them myself here (and maybe add some more). That's for tomorrow. But even putting that aside, if the European cuisine is mentioned in the article (even in the lead), then why not also the Israeli cuisine? As for your claim that couscous is a French word - that's not what the article here says. It says it is an Arab word kuskus (which probably comes from Berber origin) which the French copied. Vegan416 (talk) 21:40, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the sources that you cited and I don't see anything in them that would support your assertions. Yes, the French copied the word and in turn, the rest of the word copied it from the French (the word Couscoussier is French, even if it's derived from Arabic: كسكاس, romanized: keskas). M.Bitton (talk) 21:44, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It seems you didn't read the sources I brought carefully:
[1]: "The same is popular in Israel, where it was introduced by the North African Jews"
[2]: "[...] is now popular in many Mediterranean states such as Israel, Italy and France"
And here is another one:
[3]: "Sephardim incorporated couscous into their cuisine because of the Moorish influence and carried it to their asylum countries after their expulsion from Iberian lands (1492). It is still popularly consumed in Israel."
Please note that all the places that are mentioned in these sources in relation to couscous are already mentioned in this wikipedia article, except for Israel. I also show here only (some of) the non-Israeli sources I have so you can't blame them for being biased for Israeli mentions.
As for your claim that "couscous" is a French word because most of the world learned of couscous through French, it would be the same as claiming that "falafel" is a Hebrew word because most of the world learned of falafel through Hebrew... Vegan416 (talk) 08:59, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The same is popular in Israel, where it was introduced by the North African Jews "the same" here applies to something else (moghrabieh). The source also mentions Palestine.
None of the sources support your assertions that it is more more popular in Israel than anywhere else in Europe. A simple search for "Couscous Israel" brings lots of results for "Israeli Couscous" (Ptitim) and literally nothing for the real "Couscous".
As for your claim that "couscous" is a French word It's not a claim, it's a fact ("couscous" is a French word and so is the word "couscoussier"). The falafel analogy is just an opinion that has no basis in facts.
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Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the 