Talk:Concerns and controversies at the 2024 Summer Olympics/Archive 1

Archive 1

Additional paragraphs regarding the participation of Afghan athletes

Should mention the controversy here about whether athletes from Afghanistan will participate in the 2024 Paris Summer Olympics, which has been under Taliban control since August 2021? -- Sangjinhwa (talk) 07:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

If you have sources, feel free to add. Kingsif (talk) 12:17, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

#JeChieDansLaSeineLe23Juin

Should we add a section for the following protest?

Links: website, fracetvinfo link, tonronto Sun link, metro UK link - Rooiratel (talk) 08:23, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Potentially. I will say that the Metro source would need to be replaced per METRO, but the France Télévisions source seems to be fine. I think the Toronto Sun might be separate from THESUN and could also be fine. --Super Goku V (talk) 09:46, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Right, the Toronto Sun is also a tabloid. (Should have double-checked.) In any case, I did find the SBS News article they referenced, so that should work. --Super Goku V (talk) 09:54, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Saudi Athletes' Village

Some explanation of the bit about the proposed location of the Saudi athletes' village would be helpful. My understanding is that in all past Olympics the athletes have been housed in a single location provided by the host country. To my knowledge, there are not separate villages for different countries (though the athletes from each country are housed together), nor do the visiting teams select sites for and construct their own accommodations.The idea that Saudi Arabia would build its own village conflicts with this.Bill (talk) 21:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

The RS says what the RS says. Kingsif (talk) 22:40, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Expanded and improved from sources. Kingsif (talk) 00:04, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Dronegate

Note that I've started Draft:Canada Soccer drone spying scandal, as New Zealand seem to have accidentally uncovered a much bigger issue. Kingsif (talk) 00:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

F. Garrigos from Italy?

Garrigos is from Spain and is representing Spain, not Italy. TaranWanderer (talk) 11:06, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I went ahead and corrected this. I hadn't realized I had logged in onto the wrong account, and have now been able to make the edit from this one. T.W. (talk) 14:43, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Foie gras issue

Several international animal welfare groups (e.g. Animal Equality in all its international brands) carried out several protests against the serving of foie gras — known as a product derived from extreme animal cruelty against ducks and geese — in VIP meals, in spite of the efforts towards 'sustainability' proclaimed by the organizers. These protests are said to have reached thousands, and several participating athletes have openly supported the efforts. I'm sure sources on the subject are hardly scarce, and, unless I missed it, which is possible, I don't see this issue covered or discussed anywhere? T.W. (talk) 14:42, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Is there a source? Kingsif (talk) 15:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

[1] Just a quick one from France's own Le Monde to show that controversy was stirred. I find mostly articles in Spanish due to my default language settings, but I'm sure we can find more in English. T.W. (talk) 16:32, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

You are free to add it yourself. Kingsif (talk) 18:04, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I could give it a go, although I am out of practice when it comes to serious editing; it has been years. One question, which current section would be the most appropriate for this? Should we extend the environment/human rights section to house general welfare concerns? T.W. (talk) 12:07, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

VIP meals sounds like sustainability to me, but you can always throw it in 'other' and amend later. Kingsif (talk) 22:39, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Commercial interruptions during matches

I feel like this should be a controversy as NBC, especially Peacock, has not learned from their past issues regarding unnecessary commercial interruptions during matches, along with not including medal ceremonies. Even with Peacock Plus, commercials are still disruptive. 2604:B000:B138:290:30A0:B04C:6B94:48BF (talk) 20:33, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

And before anyone asks me for a source, sadly there isn't any because the news have not published regarding disruptive commercials in-between matches. Reddit is all I can offer, though I know this will get rejected. 2604:B000:B138:290:30A0:B04C:6B94:48BF (talk) 20:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, if we included everything that someone on social media was annoyed at, we'd have a whole other encyclopedia full. Sources are needed not just to say it happened, but to reflect notability. Kingsif (talk) 22:41, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, and this complaint is obviously specific to only one country. It's not really about the Games. HiLo48 (talk) 00:21, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Italian fencing comment

The article now claims: The Italian fencing federation reacted to the ruling as "unacceptable refereeing" and made an official protest; where the president Giovanni Malagò left a racist remarking saying, that "in no advert is there a referee 'bordering” on an athlete'"

What makes Malagò's comment racist? I can't see it. Fomalhaut76 (talk) 08:01, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I can't even understand it. HiLo48 (talk) 08:30, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I think the editor was trying to say that Giovanni Malagò was using the "race card", and he was accusing the judges of bad faith judging because they came from "bordering countries" in Asia (Taiwan and Korea) and suggested that because the judges were Asian, this is why they favour other Asians. Which is arguably a racist accusation in itself but that edit done a poor job to describe this accurately.

So I propose to replace that and add this instead; CONI President Giovanni Malagò initially condemned the decision as a "disgrace" but later clarified that, while referees deserve respect, a formal complaint has been lodged to maintain the sport's credibility. Malagò criticized the selection of referees from regions close to Hong Kong, specifically pointing out that one referee was from [South] Korea and another from [Chinese] Taipei. He suggested that because those judges were Asian, they lacked impartiality with Asian competitors.[2] 49.179.11.85 (talk) 12:23, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Your proposed text would be great, in my opinion Giovanni Paolucci (talk) 12:27, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

The irony is that he himself is Italian and defending his favourite Italian fencer. So he's hardly being impartial and maybe blinded by his own desire. Since we are all here on this matter, I also like to raise issues with the 2nd paragraph saying, "After the "unjust" ruling, mobs of Italian fans were seen swarming into Cheung's instagram account saying that "Italy was robbed" and "Cheung should 'hand over the medal to Macchi'". It seems not neutral to first describe the ruling was "unjust " even if you use exclamation marks inappropriately. More neutral to call it as "controversial" ruling. And also both sides trolled each other. Wasn't just Italians. So propose to also change and add something like this; After the controversial ruling, fans from both sides engaged in a heated exchange on social media. Italian fans expressed their displeasure by commenting on Cheung's Instagram, claiming "Italy was robbed" and urging Cheung to "hand over the medal to Macchi." In response, Hong Kong fans taunted the Italians with memes declaring "I love pineapple in pizza" and "pineapple belongs to pizza," poking fun at the Italian disdain for pineapple as a pizza topping. To celebrate Hong Kong's medal victories, Pizza Hut in Hong Kong and Macao announced free pineapple toppings on their pizzas from 6 pm on July 30 until July 31, furthering the playful jabs towards Italy.[3][4] 49.179.11.85 (talk) 14:06, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Looks like a poor translation, perhaps the editor who added it could be pinged to provide the original and contextualise if necessary so that it can be explained in proper English. Kingsif (talk) 12:10, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Do we have any standards here at all?

I upset some editors by deleting some items thst were nothing more than complaints thst "My person didn't win." How do we define what goes in this article? HiLo48 (talk) 07:25, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

The general guide is if reliable sources discuss the controversy. Regarding the edits themselves, I would say that judging controversies would fit in well with the theme of concerns/controversies of the Olympics. --Super Goku V (talk) 10:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't. In too many cases, it's just the losers complaining. In boxing, it's almost expected.HiLo48 (talk) 10:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Losers merely complaining usually generates controversy about them being a sore loser (which I think one of the entries is about, natch) — i.e. it doesn't generate attention if the media sees it as a fair loss, only if the fairness of the judging is questioned. And whether you personally think the judging should be questioned, or that judging being questioned should be controversial, are matters of your opinion, sources are what we use. Kingsif (talk) 12:14, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Because of the media being is what it is, it will always love reporting on people being unhappy. Even relieble sources do that. People being unhappy isn't news. HiLo48 (talk) 21:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

You're again dismissing media reporting on criticism of judging decisions - and media reporting on controversy based on other people criticising judging discussions - as media saying someone was unhappy. There's a very easy distinction there. Kingsif (talk) 22:14, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

You seem to have ignored the words I carefully chose. The media much prefers telling us about unhappy people rather than happy people. HiLo48 (talk) 23:55, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Complaints are quite common during certain events. Even if reported by RS, how much they should be covered can be an editorial call. CurryCity (talk) 08:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Imane updated info - IoC correct its statement

The IoC retracted its statement stating that they didn't meant they have no DSD but that they were not transgender (see official tweet here: https://x.com/iocmedia/status/1819667573698445793?t=eWx5OeYPfPj2Xkz1zyX26g&s=19). (talk) 16:44, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Women with XY

The statement "There are medical conditions that can cause a woman to also have XY chromosomes" is subjective. If one defines women as human female, and females as producing ovocytes (scientific consensus for the later), then it's false. Only one case on XY dominant mosaicism (an individual with 80% of XY cells and 20% of X/XX cells) had semi viable ovocytes that led to the natural conception of two infertile individuals is known to this day. Scientists speculates about additional autosomal mutations for this case. It's very unlikely Imane has the same condition. Please be precise and mention alternate view points. Wikipedia should not propagate biases but provide accurate informations so the readers can make up their own views as informed individuals. Special:Contributions/ (talk) 16:53, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Wow IP, that's a lot of words to say "I know There are medical conditions that can cause a woman to also have XY chromosomes is objectively correct, but don't want it to be". Stooping to try argue that infertile women (and presumably all women post-menopause?) aren't women is ridiculous. Kingsif (talk) 22:10, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I think you missed the point of the comment. There is no universaly accepted definition of a woman (Remember this?). Among the most accepted definitions is that woman is a human individual with XX (or eventually X or XXX) chromosomes and obviously someone with XY chromosomes can't be a woman according to this definition. The comment deals with the only case where this definition isn't completely clear (mosaicism) and many would argue that someone able to bear children is woman (despite having XY dominant mosaicism).

The sentence "There are medical conditions that can cause a woman to also have XY chromosomes." bears certain subjective opinion -- that the right definiton of a "woman" isn't about chromosomes. That's pretty crutial here so the sentence shouldn't be be on Wikipedia. --Pan Někdo (talk) 13:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

No, I didn’t, there is nothing subjective about it being possible for a woman to have XY chromosomes with the right conditions. If you want to come up with your own definitions of woman, that’s your problem. And before it’s tried again, the above argument that “it’s subjective” because women with XY chromosomes don’t ovulate isn’t even necessarily true, before getting to the matter of XX women who also don’t ovulate, and then the fact that defining a woman by if they can reproduce is sexist and gross.

Tl;dr : There’s nothing subjective about it and trying to say it is because you personally have a narrower definition of woman than is accepted, isn’t going to fly. Kingsif (talk) 16:53, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

You misunderstood. One definition of women is 'human female'. That's subjective - you can defend another one - but a valid opinion. A human female is someone born with ovocytes. That's not subjective. It's not possible for someone whose karyotype is fully XY. There is one rare case of a XY dominant (80%) individual with mosaicism (also 20% X/XX - the later in the ovaries) and probably a rare autosomal mutation who could produce viable ovocytes and give birth to infertile individuals. A fully XY individual cannot possibly be born with viable ovocytes. Thus if one accept 'human female' as the definition for woman, then the statement that women can have XY karyotypes is wrong. It's not about ovulation or such individuals being gross, and you're passing your subjective opinion and feelings as absolute truth. I'm not saying they're not valid but that there are alternatives you can't decide to arbitrarily reject for everyone else. 84.252.114.3 (talk) 18:28, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Just to be clear, the 'human female' definition of women obviously include infertile females. This is about the genetical ability to produce a certain kind of gametes, not ability or will to reproduce. 84.252.114.3 (talk) 19:14, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

What's your definition of "woman"? (While it's to great extend only a rhetorical question I'd like to know your asnwer.) There is no clear answer to this question and every answer bears some subjective opinion on the topic of transgender and intersex. This should be reflected here on Wikipedia rather than just stating something true only according to some of the definitions while directly contradicting other ones. And "my" defition of "woman" isn't some narrow definition that's far from widely accepted, rather the other way around -- it's among the most commonly used definitons of "woman".

When talking about sex (and not gender) one of the things we want from reasonable definition of women is that only women are able to bear children (not the other way around -- there are many infertile women). I don't know what's sexist or gross about it.

Lastly, I'd like to mention that the problematic sentence isn't in article, so I think we can let it go as it is. --Pan Někdo (talk) 19:28, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Imane Khelif assigned gender at birth

The statement in this article, that Khelif has been assigned the female gender at birth are not backed by the two sources (Wired and Slate). They do not even contain the word “birth” at all nor are they implying it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1110:234:3FC3:40B2:A1DA:E45:BE92 (talk) 09:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Van de Velde's name

I was reverted here [5]. However, for the sake of consistency, I think people should notice what I said in my edit summary. I don't think it makes sense to have a different capitalization than what the article on the actual subject uses and what the majority of sources use. They don't capitalize the "v" when it's in the middle of a sentence. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 14:12, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Courtesy ping to DragonFury. So I was double checking sources to strengthen my argument here and I came to the realization that it's less universal than I was expecting. There are definitely sources that use "van de Velde" in the middle of a sentence like CNN but it's way less common than I remember. I think you made the right call here in retrospect. I'll go look at other articles and try to keep this capitalization for the sake of consistency. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 14:29, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Ah, looks like you beat me to it. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 14:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

The "van de" is called a tussenvoegsel, as you can see in the "Netherlands" section; "In Dutch grammar, the tussenvoegsel in a surname is written with a capital letter only when it starts a sentence or is not preceded by a first name or initial." Since most of the sources across Wikipedia are in English I don't expect them to know this weird little quirk of Dutch grammar, specially since a lot of Dutch people don't know about it either. And truth be told; neither did I until a few months ago. DragonFury (talk) 14:39, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Edit request - Imane Khelif 2023 disqualification

Within the following section: https://www.iba.sport/news/statement-made-by-the-international-boxing-association-regarding-athletes-disqualifications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023/ could it please be added that the IBA as the body responsible for the disqualification of Imane Khelif has categorically stated that the test was not one that involved testosterone levels, in spite of what has been reported elsewhere? https://www.iba.sport/news/statement-made-by-the-international-boxing-association-regarding-athletes-disqualifications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023/ 125.214.83.112 (talk) 02:00, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Edit request - Closure of the Moroccan stand in L'Île-Saint-Denis

Hello, I'm requesting the adding of a new controversy;

Mohamed Gnabaly, mayor of L'Île-Saint-Denis, ordered the closure of the Moroccan stand in the fan zone near the Olympic Village. This action occurred shortly after Saida Charaf, a Moroccan Sahrawi singer, expressed approval of the French new position over Moroccan autonomy plan.

Official source : https://www.lile-saint-denis.fr/news/communique-ville-station-afrique/

Secondary source : https://www.aps.dz/monde/174218-l-ile-saint-denis-ferme-le-stand-du-maroc-dans-station-afrique-apres-une-allusion-sur-le-sahara-occidental https://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/jeux-olympiques/jo-2024-le-maire-de-l-ile-saint-denis-ferme-le-stand-du-maroc-dans-sa-fan-zone_AD-202408040334.html

Sorry I only found french sources, I hope that it can be added. 194.154.197.119 (talk) 09:22, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

@Kingsif Sorry for the mention as I think you may be interested as you recently edited this article. 194.154.197.119 (talk) 10:32, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

That's neither a concern nor a controversy. As an aside, I suggest you use your registered account and give "inserting the WS issue everywhere" a rest. M.Bitton (talk) 14:51, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

@M.BittonNo need to be this harsh/passive agressive to say no. It's okay, I will assume that a senior editor like you must be right.

You can keep your bad faith to you, I'm not interested in having an account in Wikipedia anymore, Wikipedia rules are too difficult to me, I'm just reading and suggesting edits.

And being interested in a subject is not a sin, your algeria-exclusive history attests to it. 194.154.197.119 (talk) 15:02, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Incident in Brussels not relevant to the article

"Olympic BMX champion Logan Martin had some of his equipment and wallet stolen from a team van in Brussels, where the Australian team was training before heading to Paris, while his bikes were not in the van at the time." appears to have no relevance to the topic at hand which is "Crime in Paris" as this crime occurred in another country prior to the games. 2604:3D08:3478:400:F95D:D9FC:C681:EDD3 (talk) 22:04, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

IBA Press Conference 8/5/24

The IBA held a press conference yesterday about their gender testing of Imane Khelif and Lin Yu Ting.

• The Washington Post
• Time Magazine
• The Independent
• The Telegraph
• Sky Sports
• BBC Sport

Mellamelina (talk) 11:42, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2024

Remove paragraph about Logan Martin getting his bike stolen as it happened in Brussels and has nothing to do with crime in Paris. Keuhdall (talk) 21:11, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Done. HiLo48 (talk) 07:39, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Hockey brawl

Is this like the Argentina v. France match? Please, if anyone can read, and share any opinion on inclusion? I mean about the brawl between Dutch and German hockey players today. (Here) CoryGlee (talk) 21:48, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Biased Against Israel

There are many statements in this article that are not factual regarding Israel. There is no "occupation" and there is no country called "Palestine." 2601:5CC:4600:2370:6CA6:543C:8FF1:1383 (talk) 09:55, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

The State of Palestine is recognized as a sovereign state by 145 of the 193 member states of the United Nations, or just over 75% of all UN members. See International recognition of the State of Palestine. HiLo48 (talk)

Split discussion

Hi all, There is a proposal to split of material from Imane Khelif, Lin Yu-ting and Concerns and controversies at the 2024 Summer Olympics#Women's boxing_controversy and consolidate it in a new article at 2024 Olympic Boxing Controversy. Interested editors are invited to participate at Talk:Imane Khelif#Proposal to create and split off new article "2024 Olympic Boxing Controversy". TarnishedPath^talk 06:08, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Women's Boxing Controversy re. Angela Carina interview - can this be noted?

I think it would be useful if Angela Carina's interview with an Italian newspaper were included. She apologised to Imane Khelif, and I am annoyed that I have only seen it referenced in the New York Times, which I hope someone can access -- https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5676796/2024/08/02/olympics-women-boxing-angela-carini-apologizes-imane-khelif/?searchResultPosition=2

I feel that her comment about the punch unwittingly added fuel to the unfair comments about Imane, and Angela clearly feels bad about this situation, yet no one seems to be paying attention. I don't feel confident about editing anything on here and would be grateful to anyone who wishes to pick this up. Thanks! Kitbits (talk) 15:25, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Here is the Italian newspaper article if that is what you are looking for. I don't see anything that can be added for it, but I could be misunderstanding your request. --Super Goku V (talk) 20:20, 18 August 2024 (UTC)