Talk:College-preparatory school

UK/US

I am pretty sure that in the UK, a prep school is a primary school - it prepares for secondary, not for higher ed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarquin (talk • contribs) 20:09, 19 August 2003 (UTC)

Split out content?

Should we move the Commonwealth-related stuff to Preparatory School (as in, properly capitalised)? It might make things clearer than having a set of sections to do with US-style and Commonwealth-style schools so very intermingled...
James F. (talk) 10:34, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The list is huge!

If someone feels inspired, he might look through the list of US prep schools and get rid of the less-notable ones - it's getting very large. — Dan | Talk 18:31, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Good grief, we'll wind up importing all the article-level notable school debate onto this page. The main debate at least seems worth having because it's about full-blown articles, rather than a single list entry. Also it's 45 schools right now, which, given the much larger number of U.S. prep schools (about 1,200 members of NAIS [1]), makes me think we are still in the notable range. About half I know by reputation, and I don't really know that much about this. Right now, it's still pretty naviagable. I'd postpose clean-up until we got above 120. When we know we are outside the top 1 percent (arbitrary, I know) clean-up benefits will out weigh the debate costs. Chris vLS 22:04, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree that this list is far too large. Not every private school is a prepartory school in the sense we're describing--for example, so-and-so day school, (or obscure boarding school.) I'll weed out the less-notable ones. Feel free to restore the page if you think that this is unwarranted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.191.237 (talk) 20:14, 13 December 2004 (UTC)

As a matter of point, 1% of 1,200 would be 12, not 120. I think that the list within the article shouldn't exceed 50 or so -- otherwise, farm it out to a separate article. Christopher Parham (talk) 05:00, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

It seems most people agree that the large list is having a negative impact on the article. I think the large list should be moved to a seperate page (List of University-Prepratory schools) since the list may still be informative to some, and what should be left on this page is the intro information and a very small list of the most notable schools. How's that sound? Chriscobar 14:02, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Fine, as long as a list exists. But what happened to the prep schools listed that are not in the U.S. or the U.K.? Pelegius 23:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Teachers pay

Prep schools do not pay more than public schools, they typically pay less. For example, a teacher at the top-notch prep schools in Boston, New York, Philly, and DC with five years' experience and a master's degree makes about 45,000. A teacher with the same experience and level of education in a top-notch publich school makes about 55,000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.60.132 (talk) 00:29, 4 January 2005 (UTC)

This article would be improved by including some common criticisms of prep schools such as the above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.135.207.194 (talk) 03:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

This is an interesting comment, it seems unlikely but I'd like to see the source you're referring to, it would certainly warrant a change to the document that suggests the opposite is true. Sapoguapo 16:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Top 10 list?

An anonymous user has added the Top Ten Ranked preparatory schools. Based on what exactly? Is there a link to a source? How was this ranking generated? Does this section belong? Knoma Tsujmai 23:42, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

No, and I've removed it, since it is unsourced and probably copyrighted. — Dan | Talk 00:02, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

I believe that Time magazine had an article about the top private schools in America, though I never read the article jcarkeys 23:14, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Remove list?

How about removing the list entirely? It isn't really all that helpful for people reading an article on prep schools, and it's going to keep getting long and unwieldy as everybody thinks "their" prep school is notable. If someone feels strongly about having it, how about making a separate list and linking that? --W(t) 04:55, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

Meaning of the term

Perhaps there should be a comment on the meaning of the term - or rather about its near meaningless nowadays. When this term arose (18th/19th century?) only elite schools systematically prepared students for college, but now pretty much every high school does. Hawkestone 17:43, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Religious prep schools

The implication that religious prep schools are somehow less academic than others is absurd. Many of the finest prep schools are run by relgious orders, espc. the Jesuits (No, I did not go to a Jesuit school) but also other Chuches and Religious groups. Pelegius 23:22, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Bias

The first paragraph is wrought with biased language ("At preparatory schools, tuition is used to pay excellent teachers and provide enriched learning environments", "Where public elementary and secondary schools, by design, teacher and administrator apathy, or simple neglect, are failing many students who wish to matriculate to university, prep schools ensure such progression"). Consider moving such discussion to a section called "Support and Critiques of Prep Schools" or something of the sort. This especially got me: "Thus, prep schools are, because of their differing mission as compared to public elementary and secondary schools, both academically dissimilar and academically superior, in both method and substance, to public elementary and secondary schools." Regardless of the basis in fact, that statement is purely opinion. Pvodenski 20:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

• Amen to that! Go for it Pvodenski (or someone), and rewrite that first paragraph. Among other things, it's totally unacceptable to state that prep schools "ensure" matriculation in a university. Sapoguapo 22:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• i agree, that first paragraph sounds like an advertisement for prep schools 69.249.46.86 01:33, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• I just edited the first paragraph to make it a bit more neutral, and I altered its content a bit beyond that. Sapoguapo 06:34, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

There is also a strong USofA bias: the term was in use in the UK long before the US and if any version of the definition is to be taken as 'standard', i.e. not qualified by a national meaning (cf. 'Preparatory School (UK)' entry) it should arguably be the original, UK version. Alternatively, and probably better, this entry should also be qualified as 'Preparatory School (USofA)'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.167.45 (talk) 00:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Shingakkou

Can the ubiquitous shingakkou (進学校) in Japan be considered college prep schools? If so, there should be a section on them, for their numbers are great, sayeth the Lord. --Denise from the Cosby Show (talk) 00:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC

SLY111

The American entry is puerile. I'll research the topic and contribute to entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SLY111 (talk • contribs) 06:42, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Opening paragraph

the last few sentences are poorly worded and thus somewhat confusing. They talk about host schools and doing work for the same, this seems to imply that some prep school are run as a adjunct to regular schools, with students enrolled in both. While perhaps this is true in some countries, it certainly isn't true in the US, and the juxtaposition with the final sentence about the number of prep schools in the US seems to imply a connection. Then there is the strange parenthetical comment about Puerto Rico, Alaska, and Hiwaii. The latter two have been states since 1959. In fact, I think this sentence more properly belongs in the US section, and why limit it to just the 50 states plus PR? re there prep school in other US holdings, like the Virgin Islands, Guam, etc.?Wschart (talk) 13:19, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Wrong link

In section Spain, hastings school is given a wrong link (to some school in canada that goes by the same name) 78.1.130.216 (talk) 14:14, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Gymnasium best school, according to Pisa

I removed that line, since i never saw such a claim in PISA documents and the claim appears rather ludicrous to me. The cited source was small local newspaper with about zero expertise in such matters (most likely such a personal opinion of some staff writer).--Kmhkmh (talk) 22:29, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I removed the second sourced with Guardian as well since it didn't make much sense on its own and was a bit off topic anyhow. The Guardian as a source is better than local German newspaper but its reference to PISA is imprecise and I can't find the table he talk about under the link provided.

More generally speaking that gymnasiums tend to have good pisa rating nationally or internationally is simply due to the fact that the crudely speaking get attended by the 30-50% "top students" (selection after elementary school). So you cannot really compare them to schools who serve an full range of students (rather than a preselection). The German organizers of PISA are of course aware of that problem and hence never made such a claim about the gymnasium as the one found in the ,local German newspaper.--Kmhkmh (talk) 22:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Australia

Australia has preparatory schools, yet there is no mention? Rfkzsaok7 (talk) 03:21, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

USA and Canada

Prep schools are not exclusive to the private systems in North-America. Many school districts have specialized schools, including fine-arts schools, and university preparatory schools. Canadian Federation of University Preparatory Schools (CFUPS), Boston Preparatory Charter Public School, McKinley Preparatory High School, and Cody - Detroit Institute of Technology College Prep High School are a few examples. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VanishedUser sdu9aya9fs785 (talk • contribs) 16:54, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Title should be "college preparatory school" because that is by far the more common term

This article was originally titled "preparatory school" until this edit on 16 August 2005 by User:The Tom. Google Books returns only 12,800 results for "university preparatory school" versus 88,500 results for "college preparatory school." Furthermore, skimming the results shows that the latter term appears to be more often used as the generic term for this category of schools, while most of the results for the former term appear to be referring to prep schools attached to specific universities which as a result have names that include the phrase "University Preparatory School." Any objections before I move this thing in a few days? --Coolcaesar (talk) 00:22, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

I agree with suggested change. Rjensen (talk) 01:03, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

As over a year has elapsed without objection, I just took care of this. --Coolcaesar (talk) 01:45, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Fantasy. Delete and start again?

I would like to be bold and delete all the unreferenced sections. But the problem is bigger than that. There is nothing actually to document. Why? It is solely a US phenomena. The US has a tertiary system where students aim for one college then jump over the hurdles the college sets. The high schools have no selection (apart from paid v free), There is no evidence of externally monitored final subject examinations. I have seen students swatting up to do a CAT test that is divorced from their areas of study- the sort of deprecated Eleven-Plus non verbal reasoning test. Elsewhere in the world the system is very different. The college-preparatory school existt in the US to paper over a US specific problem- but you cannot internationalise it by pretending that other systems have one. The need is not there.

• UK none
• Italy- the liceo is one track selected at 14- nothing to with cramming. I suspect that this is the same in all systems calling one part of their selective system- Lyceum, Grammar or Gymnasium
• Germany- none
• France- none,

The premise of this article is false, so re-cast the first paragraph with a good strong referenced definition- then make it US specific. Fantasies do WP harm.

As always, I look forward to reading the debate. ClemRutter (talk) 11:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Concur. Most of this article is entirely irrelevant to what is a college preparatory school and should not be here. --Coolcaesar (talk) 00:26, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Also, to correct a misconception on your part: college prep schools in the United States are usually selective (they use the Independent School Entrance Examination or the Secondary School Admission Test or both) and offer a broad selection of AP or IB courses. --Coolcaesar (talk) 06:59, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

We have left it three months for comment- so I have started the cull! Coolcaesar- I hope you have some alternative text in mind! I am locked into a different system. ClemRutter (talk) 11:50, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for getting that started. Looks fine so far, I need to think about how to revise and improve this further. --Coolcaesar (talk) 17:00, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Hello, ClemRutter, I know that this is resurrecting an old discussion, but I would like to see what you mean by prep schools (in the US) existing to solve some problem. There is no objective definition of a “prep school,” rather they are widely seen as private, elite schools that are often quite a bit older than other schools in the country. Many private schools (and I would argue all public schools) are not prep schools, owing far more to lack of prestige than quality. I cannot speak for any other country, but in the US there is no prep school “system,” but rather a term to describe an elite phenomenon. Prep schools are completely different from test-prep programs run by the likes of the Princeton Review. In the US, those are typically called test-prep/tutoring services, and (usually) not called schools. Maybe an older version of this article conflated those two. Older, prestigious secondary schools certainly exist in other places, so I was wondering whether that phenomenon should be added into this article for European, Asian, etc. countries? AnandaBliss (talk) 18:12, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Feeder schools?

A search for "feeder schools" redirects here in a way that does not relate to what feeder schools are (lower level schools that feed into higher level schools... all at the pre-secondary level). If this could be fixed back to what was originally set up via the soft re-direct decision back in 2013, that would be great. For more on this, see https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Feeder_school. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eleuthero (talk • contribs) 22:28, 5 December 2021 (UTC)