Talk:Christian nationalism

United States-specific material dominating core article sections

I have just moved United States-specific material out of the Ideology section into the US section.[1] The citation used for that material names specifically, in the abstract, "Christian symbols, values, and policies enshrined as the established religion of the United States".[2] desmay (talk) 20:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I have tried to WP:GLOBALIZE this section by adding material from the London School of Economics article that discusses Christian nationalism in various countries.[3] To follow WP:NPOV, if we are going to discuss a specific manifestation of Christian nationalism, we must mention the country that that specific manifestation is happening in. desmay (talk) 21:00, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I've added some material regarding Christian nationalism in Brazil too.[4] This distinguishes between various manifestations of Christian nationalism, which aren't the same in every country. desmay (talk) 21:10, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

We definitely need an article on Christian nationalism in the United States. StAnselm (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Yep. Support creating a separate article and summarizing it here. It's just going to become a bigger and bigger part of discourse in the US at least through this year's election given Project 2025 and the trajectory of conservative politics in the US. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 21:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

That's probably a good idea. BootsED (talk) 23:57, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand what happened. I believe there was a separate article titled Christian nationalism in the United States but it has since been deleted and the content merged into this article here? Perhaps I am remembering this wrong. Either way, this should have its own stand-alone article as it is dominating the page. 72.14.126.22 (talk) 21:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Jarble:, who made the initial redirect from Christian nationalism in the United States to the United States section of this page. If you have more information about this redirect and its history please let us know. I believe consensus has formed that a separate page for Christian nationalism in the United States is needed due to the size of the existing section and its increasing prevalence in American politics. I see that there is also a category for this topic along with an unused template that suggests to me this page previously existed but was folded into this one. Also, would it be possible to redirect existing links for Christian nationalism#United States to this new page as well? I would do this myself but I am unfamiliar with redirects and don't want to mess anything up. Thanks. BootsED (talk) 00:44, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

@BootsED: That redirect has no history and no talk page -- it's just a redirect. The only mention of the sidebar I can see, which kind of explains it, is Talk:Nick_Fuentes#Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_29_May_2024. Once the new article is created, we would put links under the heading in this article and summarize it here. If you want to be cautious, create a draft of the new article and get input before moving it to mainspace. It would be a good idea to ensure there's at least more information in the new article than there was here. But there's no obligation to draft if you'd prefer to just get started on the new article. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 12:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Pinging Desmay regarding your revert [5] "Those sentences are only about the US and belong in that section only. We went over this"...While I agree the wording needs to be improved and the sources are American studies, I may have assumed the ones I used apply to Christian nationalism in general ie globally. They also seem to be of more academic quality... Journal for scientific study of religion & from National Institutes of Health [6]... Your LSE source (mentioned above) appears to be a blog? [7] Blogs are typically inappropriate, and https://www.christiancentury.org/ may or may not be reliable or neutral, but perhaps they are or there is some exception here I'm unaware of. Cheers. DN (talk) 02:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

As they're American studies, Wikipedia can't generalize them to cover the whole world. That would be original research. Including them in the US section is ok for now. desmay (talk) 02:43, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Millionaire ‘apostle’ summoning women to DC for Christian nationalist rally

[8] Doug Weller talk 12:26, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, Doug. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 10:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

This page seems prone to vandalism

This low quality text here is non-academic in nature and clearly made by a Christian nationalist in defense of the ideology. “Re-defining Christians who believe that God granted them certain rights no government can take away as Nationalists is just a common communist play to sow discord and create confusion. Don't fall for this.”

editors please remove this and keep this page under tighter lock and key to keep it strictly objective and less prone to disinformation. 2604:3D09:137E:9A20:7435:F622:A63C:C25 (talk) 02:22, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Hindu nationalism (Hindutva) & Hindu terrorism in see also

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christian_nationalism&diff=prev&oldid=1260246072

I find the above edit to be problematic. If Hindu nationalism (Hindutva) AKA Hindu fascism belong here; then why not Hindu terrorism? I believe that mentioning Hindu terrorism along with Hindutva will keep WP:Bias or favouritism towards Hindu nationalism away from the See Also section. Nolicamaca (talk) 19:03, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

No. There is nothing about terrorism in the article. It’s about nationalism. Doug Weller talk 20:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2024

Please make sure the Pharisees religious…referred to as christian nationalists.. is not confused with Christianity which in its true meaning is receiving Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour..thank you 152.86.90.152 (talk) 18:53, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia treats "Christianity" as a category of identified religions, and are in no position to adjudicate which form would be accurate to the desires of Jesus of Nazareth. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 19:04, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Does it matter? An itinerant preacher in 1st-century Palestine had a very limited role in 2 millennia of competing Christian ideologies and the power struggles between religious and political movements inspired by them. Dimadick (talk) 13:38, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we have a section referencing Protestant, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox nationalisms?

I feel like each of these forms of Christian nationalism manifest very differently, and it would be useful to add a section about that.

Some examples of what I mean:

Protestant nationalism: Ulster loyalism tends to strongly rely on Protestant nationalism which is more sectarian, while American Evangelical nationalism tends to be more pan-Christian in nature. American Evangelical nationalism, however, as a lot in common with Afrikaner Calvinist nationalism, which tends to see South Africa as a God-given land to the Afrikaners, but doesn't strongly divide along religious lines. All three, however, are strongly connected to Christian Zionism, something which other forms of Christian nationalism aren't. More fundamentally, what unites these groups is also a sense of secular reasoning for religious nationality, whether its sectarian identity or its a belief that religion is necessary to uphold society, both base their ideals on secular and individualist reasoning, as is consistent with Protestant theology relating to choosing God being an individual choice.

Catholic nationalism: Integral nationalism originated in France as a challenge to the secularity of the Third Republic. Initially powerful and based around the royalist, Catholic, integralist, anti-Protestant, and above all antisemitic Action Française, integral nationalism was able to gain a strong foothold, but failed to continue gaining traction after the Dreyfus affair, which the party had been formed in reaction to, ended with Alfred Dreyfus being proved innocent of espionage within the eyes of the French public (albeit not legally due to the systemic antisemitism of the French Army and their military courts). Falangism, by contrast, gained popularity among the Spanish right following the creation of the laicist Second Spanish Republic, which they hated with an immense passion. Following the Spanish Civil War and the victory of the Nationalist faction over the Republicans, falangism spread to other parts of the Catholic world, including Poland (a la the National-Radical Falange) and Greater Lebanon within French Syria (via the Kataeb Party). In both types of nationalism, the role of the Catholic Church as an overarching body in people's lives is core to this doctrine, which makes it somewhat different from the more individualistic and sectarian nature of Protestant nationalism.

Eastern Orthodox nationalism: Unlike Protestant and Catholic nationalisms, Eastern Orthodox nationalism often blurs the lines between nationality and religion. This is partially due to how the Eastern Orthodox Church is structured, with each Patriarchate representing a whole nationality. For example, Greek nationalism, especially Greek Cypriot nationalism, has often been inspired and led by Orthodox priests, such as the EOKA. Another example of nationality and religion blurring the lines would be the Legionaries and Neo-Legionaries in Romania. Their ideology is a mix of Eastern Orthodox mysticism, radical racial, religious, and economic antisemitism, Romanian ethnic ultranationalism, Christian supremacism, and elements of a death cult. One final example would be Russian Orthodox nationalism, such as that of the Black Hundreds during the Tsarist era or the "Nuclear Orthodoxy" of certain radical elements within and quasi-supporting the current Putin government, such as the Union of Orthodox Banner-Bearers.

Oriental Orthodox nationalism: Oriental Orthodox nationalism is most similar to Eastern Orthodox nationalism, but they are not entirely the same. For example, Assyrian nationalism is, in part, a type of nationalism where religion and nationality begin to blur. But unlike Greek or Romanian or Russian Christian nationalisms, Assyrian Christian nationalism is based around Syriac Christianity (primarily the Syriac Orthodox Church and the Syriac Catholic Church), which acts more like an ethnoreligion than part of a broader universal religion. While Christianity is, by its nature, universal, Syriac Christianity, which is unique to the Assyrian people, is treated more like its own internal religion that gives the Assyrian people a sense of identity rather than as a purely universal religion in and of itself. Something similar could be said for Coptic nationalism. Again, though Christian, the Coptic Orthodox and Coptic Catholic Churches are mostly internal to the Coptic people themselves and don't convert as much as Christians in the West, though this isn't as true for Copts as it is for Assyrians. For example, the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and its Eritrean counterpart are generally considered a part of the Coptic Orthodox Church, even though they are not ethnically Coptic. However, this is an exception that proves the rule, as most Coptic nationalists are usually not focused on the issues related to Ethiopia, considering that Ethiopians and Eritreans are made up of many ethnicities, but none of them are Copts. After all the Copts even have their own language (as do the Assyrians by the way), which distinguishes them from the societies they live in in the Middle East. As a result, Coptic nationalists tend to focus on issues Coptic Christians face in the Arab world, mainly in Egypt, rather than the Horn of Africa.

These are some examples of what a page could look like. Let me know if this is a good idea or if anyone would be willing to add a page like this. MagyarNavy1918 (talk) 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @MagyarNavy1918, this could be a good idea, but because this is potentially controversial content we really need to make sure that we have reliable sources supporting all the prose we add/that you've suggested. I do think the page should cover more content, because I plan on eventually creating the page white christian nationalism which may peel off much of the evangelical content. However, I'm pretty familiar with the sources for WCN and less so for everything else you've suggested. Alyo (chat·edits) 16:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

I think if we're going to do a section on Protestant nationalism, even evangelical nationalism, I do think it would need a section about the ulster loyalists.

That said, I could certainly give some sources on Catholic nationalism, especially Spanish and French Catholic nationalisms in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, as well as Russian Orthodox nationalism in the 21st century and Assyrian nationalism. MagyarNavy1918 (talk) 23:03, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Not opposed at all. To the extent that you want to find some sources and propose some text on this talk page, just tag me--I'm definitely willing to help out with review. Alyo (chat·edits) 06:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)