Talk:Christian Bale/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Initial messages

Does somebody wanna edit and lock this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.53.240.100 (talk) 05:04, 14 December 2004 (UTC)

No real need to: the vandalism (which I've since fixed) occurred several hours ago. -- Hadal 05:09, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Did his reported height changed from 6'2" to 6'0" overnight? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.172.4.45 (talk) 10:01, 20 June 2005 (UTC)

• According to celebheights.com, Bale himself said he was 6 feet. The 6-foot-2 is a fan-based myth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.199.100.109 (talk) 03:46, 23 June 2005 (UTC)

Is it really an established fact who his mother is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.71.35.93 (talk) 21:11, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Batman Concludes?

As of 10/20/2008, there is a movie listed as "Batman Concludes" in the filmogrpahy section. A quick google renders nothing meaningful in an official context. Is it safe to say that this should be removed? 71.247.233.58 (talk) 00:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Religion

Has Christian Bale ever stated what his spiritual beliefs are? I'm just wondering, and I find it interesting that not much is known about his personal life. The only reason I'm bringing this up is so we can have every angle on Christian Bale. I'm not sure if somebody missed this detail, or if he's never given it.

Who cares what the man's religious beliefs are, isn't he entitled to some privacy? Having "every angle on his life" is just ridiculous. Effj00 16:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

Most of this section needs to go: e.g., "has two dogs called Mojo and Ramone and three cats called Miriam, Molly, and Lilly." An encyclopedia article is an overview or summary of human knowledge about a topic, not collection of trivia. — Matt Crypto 00:31, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Weight Loss/Gain

Bale didn't actually "gain back his original weight plus 20 pounds" for Batman--the fact that he gained the weight back and then some was actually a real problem, and he had to work out with a trainer in order to get in good enough shape to fit in the Batsuit. He comments in the DVD extras that that some of the crew members who knew him asked jokingly "Are we doing Batman or Fatman?" nmw 08:43, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Please use in the Article SI-units (Kilogram/Metres). There are only tree countries worldwide who don't use them. 77.117.155.93 (talk) 22:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Beard/Method

Who edited this page and took away that bearded pic of Christian and wrote Method Actor, he isn't a method actor, he's a character actor, calling him a method actor is insulting. --Killingthedream 11:28, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I've no idea regarding your question, however I came here to ask whether Bale would be classified as a method actor, as he is often referred to in sources (e.g. here) and there's no such reference in the article. What makes him a character actor and not a method actor? Why would that be an insult anyway, since method actors are often highly regarded? No interest in ruffling any feathers here  :-) , just curious and trying to present the best article possible. --Estarriol ^talk 14:05, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

That's fine and all but Wikipedia should be about Truth. It doesn't matter if Method actors are highly regarded, he isn't one. In fact that is not true, many film fans consider 'the method' a lazy form of acting. Bale himself has said he isn't one because Method actors rely on their own emotions and memories to create a character, they also stay in character during a shoot. Bale creates characters from the inside out and doesn't believe in relying in ones own memories to act. That's why he isn't a Method actor.--60.240.123.229 (talk) 11:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Great Britain

Does Bale really speak with a Welsh accent? I don't see how that's possible, since he left Wales before he could talk. He has repeatedly stated over the years that, while he has no objection to being thought Welsh, he considers himself English. To my Yank ear, his accent is indeed typically English and not identifiably regional (i.e., Cockney, Cornish, Liverpuddlian, etc.).Magicmote 22:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

5 images!?

Isn't that way too many? We don't need all of them, and most of them should go. Atropos 04:28, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

And shouldn't there be a main non-character photo of Bale in the top right of the page (with DOB etc)? --KevinClayton 14:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Parentage

I would like to say that I posted a question as to whether it was definite as to who his mother is. This was erroneously removed as vandalism for some reason. There is ,i would like to point out , a significant debate as to who Bale's natural mother is and for that reason i don't think it should be definitively stated as Jenny James.

Dragon Ball Z

A sentence in the article of the character Vegeta from Dragonball Z stated that Dragonball Z was going to be made into a film, and that Bale had signed up to play Vegeta. Is this true?

Well common sense would suggest that's not true, considering he's too tall. At one point however, Hugh Jackman signed on to play Goku, but he dropped out.

LOL I could see him playing the pissed off Sayain prince but I could also see him playing Piccolo

Name?

Is it Christian Charles Philip Bale or Christian Morgan Bale? Searches on both yield significant results. --Antrophica 00:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I have found Yahoo movies more accurate so I'd go with Morgan. Arniep 21:17, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Good Article listing

With the excellent referencing, NPOV and well-written prose, I believe this article meets Good Article standards, and have marked it as so. Please discuss any disagreement in this section. — Estarriol ^talk 11:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, hopefully it does. I spent two and a half straight days on it. --Antrophica 12:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Re-Submit to WP:FA?

This article looks very good. One section could use expanding or just a merge. Early life and Career. That's about it.. Bugs5382 09:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Fat 'Conversion'

In the section regarding Bale's weight shifts from 'The Machinist' to 'Batman Begins' there is an (understandable) error: "gaining exactly one hundred pounds in six months. He then worked toward converting most of it into muscle". This is a physiological impossibility, you do not convert fat into anything other than usable energy for the body. Muscle and fat are two different tissue types... -- romeo_uva 01:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

To be fair, that implies that he converted his extra weight rather than specifically fat into muscle. --AJKGordon 14:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Christian Bale is English

christian bale who has English parents and was brought up in England allways considers himself English like the English born John Rhys-Davies considers himself Welsh.

• I can sift through the internet and find interviews, articles, etc. that say Christian Bale is Welsh. Apparently Michael Caine told an interviewer that Bale calls himself Welsh. Being a British actor working in the United States, that quote could have just been Bale yielding to the common practise of Americans to call anyone from the British Isles "English" (with the exception of the Irish of course). I don't think that is legitimate proof of what Bale considers himself, which is really unimportant anyway. If you were born in Wales, you are Welsh. I am not going to change it again, because it is not important enough and I don't see the need for "edit wars". Movementarian (Talk) 03:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid i too can sift through the internet and on IMDB alone find two quotes where he calls himself English, he also has a clear English accent (when it is not American!). You cannot seriously believe that a persons place of birth defines their nationality, there are plenty of examples of that not being the case on Wikipedia. I also have to say that i find it hard to believe that if he thought of himself as Welsh he would openly say he was English to please the Americans! Considering he left Wales at the age of 2 and has English parents i fail to see how he could see himself as Welsh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.3.114.157 (talk • contribs)

• I can say he is Welsh because he was born there, it is called Jus soli. An excellent arguement can be made either way, or you could go the other by saying he is Portuguese. Movementarian (Talk) 08:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't think this really applies as Wales and England are legally the same country (UK). The fact he was born in Wales gives him no special citizenship rights he wouldnt have got if he was born in England. --Berks105 10:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

That very article describes objective nationality as being the mainstay, i think that is far more approriate here. Nationality is what you percieve yourself and nothing to do with Jus Soli. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.166.67.227 (talk • contribs)

• I disagree. Nationality has much to do with where you were born. There are other ways to determine ones nationality, but birth has much to do with it. I can believe that I am Japanese all day long, but that does not make it true. Movementarian (Talk) 09:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

• The fact Christian Bale was born in Wales is totally immaterial. Angela Thorne was born in India/Pakistan but now one is calling her Indian. This applies to many other actors. You are Welsh born in you have Welsh heritage but then move abroad, to American say. Someone who has English parents, who was born in Wales and lived their for only 2 years is not Welsh-born. Bale even calls himself English (as referenced), so putting Welsh-born is totally riduclous. --Berks105 09:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Someone who is born in Wales is Welsh-born, it seems kind of simple. If Wales and England are the same country, as you say above (you aren't Welsh are you?) why not call him a British actor? Movementarian (Talk) 10:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Legally Wales and England are the same country. I would not wish to call him British as it is too general, and importantly he himself calls himself English. The country of someone's birth is totally immaterial to their nationality, as I said before would you call Angela Thorne Indian-born or Francesca Annis Brazillian-born? No of course you wouldn't, so there is no reason to call Bale Welsh-born.--Berks105 11:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Please don't assume that you can answer a question for me, it is insulting and patronising. You never know if I would consider Angela Thorne an Indian or Francesca Annis a Brazilian, which is not the best of analogies anyway. This is more akin to whether a Canadian who is born in Quebec is a French-Canadian even though his parents are from Ontario. It is much more palatable to call Bale a British actor, rather than alienating the Welsh or English (BBC Wales calls him Welsh, you can scour the internet and make a case for either.). One quote in one interview does not make a concrete case for nationality. The fact that his parents are English is just as immaterial, as his father is now an American. Why does he have to be one or the other, why can't he be British? Movementarian (Talk) 11:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
        • I just believe that British is too general, we could describe everyone from the whole of the UK as British. His parents are English (someone's parents do have a baring on the child's nationality to an extent), and I really don't believe that spending the first two years of his life in Wales means that he has to be British not English. He has lived in England ever since, has English parents and calls himself English. Surely this is enough? --Berks105 12:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
          • Bale spent his childhood in Wales, England, Portugal, and the United States. He called himself English one time, in one interview. His dad is now an American. Movementarian (Talk) 12:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
            • I thought his father was dead? But anyway, I think the important thing is what he calls himself (see also Keira Knightley, where we sourced her calling herself English). He also calls himself English according to this [1] (look to the bottom of page). --Berks105 12:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
              • If you want Christian Bale then you have to take Madonnna too. Movementarian (Talk) 12:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

• I've changed the entry back to welsh-born english actor, since welsh born british actor makes no sense at all. All Welsh born people are british citizens anyway.

Welsh-born is not the same as born in Wales. Welsh-born implies he has Welsh ancestry. "The character is so vain and obsessed with his looks. While the psychology of the character was something that I could perform, you can't fake the physicality. Being English, I tend to enjoy going down to the pub far more than going to the gym, so it was very unnatural for me." is quoted as a reference. He is an English actor born in Wales. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.117.172 (talk) 23:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I strongly disagree! "Welsh-born" quite specifically means "born in Wales" and can be interpreted in no other way. In the same way Welsh politicians David Lloyd George, Dafydd Wigley and Helen Mary Jones are all "English-born", i.e. "born in England". Christian Bale is unquestionably English! -- Maelor  11:59, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree. I like Bale as an actor, but if he self-identifies as English, then that's what he is, half-remembered Michael Caine anecdotes notwithstanding. He does give good Welsh in his first film, mind ;-) Nic Dafis (talk) 14:40, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't he sing in Welsh (as a British school boy in Empire of the son?

Note how none of those articles start with "is an English-born Welsh....".

92.13.77.9 (talk) 19:48, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Profile Picture

Alright, what sense does it make to have a picture of Bale as a child?? Especially since his success has come post-2000.

• Reply: Yeah, I agree with your opinion. It seems a a-bit stupid to have a picture of him as a "Man-Child". The Bale article also has many POV statements without citing any sources.
  • I didn't even see the discussion, but I changed this already. -Mike Payne 15:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Um... Why is that obviously photoshopped picture of Christian Bale in place of the previously decent Equilibrium picture? Someone asleep at the wheel or what?

11-year gap

The article starts dealing deeply with his very first performances up to 1989, and then suddenly goes straight to 1999, leaving a 11-year gap. That is hardly a "good article" feature, no matter how well written is the rest. I mean, there is obviously a need of development there, even if Bale's career "really" started with American Psycho. Nazroon 17:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I started just a little something in regards to his early career. I haven't seen all of those movies in the '90s, but I have seen those two. Perhaps someone can expand on that.Splent

This is an excellent article read concerning Christian Bale for whom I earlier confused with Jim Cavaziel
http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User:Berniethomas68 19:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Slight factual error!

In the reference "Bale is an admirer of howl's moving castle", the interview has nothing at all to do with it. Inaccuracy or am i overlooking something? ♥♥ ΜÏΠЄSΓRΘΠ€ ♥♥ ^{slurp me!} 21:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Filmography

Someone has added in Metal Gear Solid as a movie he is attached to.Their have been no rumours or mention of him being anyway involved in the project.Suggest that it should be removed as their is no verifiable information regarding it.

No he's not attached He did express interest and Kojima-san said he wanted Bale or Hugh Jackman--Change is coming and potter should have died

Fair use rationale for Image:420464253 e110e7347f.jpg

Image:420464253 e110e7347f.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 13:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Not a Method Actor

Method Actors rely on their own memories and emotions to create a character. Bale has often said he doesn't believe in that style and instead creates characters from the inside out, and learnt by just observing people as stated even in this new interview http://aintitcool.com/node/33824. Method Actors(varied examples being Daniel Day-Lewis, Angelina Jolie, David Morse) also stay in character during shoots whilst Bale has said he doesn't find it necessary. Method Actors are generally taught a 'Method' of acting, hence the name, Bale is self taught. --Killingthedream 18:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The Machinist - doctor

In the article it states that the director and Bale's doctor forbade him from losing anymore weight, but in this interview Bale says he wasn't under a doctor's care during the filming of The Machinist. I'm sure it could be fixed easily, but I couldn't put it into the right words. Someone else mind doing it? Chickenmonkey (talk) 09:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Redundancy in Lead Paragraph

I've removed the following section from the lead since it already states earlier on that he'll be portraying Kyle Reese in TS:TFB. It also seems a little overkill to include the film's release date in the lead paragraph.

As well as Batman, Christian Bale will be taking on another iconic character, John Connor in the upcoming Terminator Salvation. The fourth Terminator film is scheduled for release in May 2009.

S. Luke 05:52, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Never auditioned for Robin

According to the newest GQ Magazine interview, Christian Bale never auditioned for Robin. 65.182.48.80 (talk) 15:46, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

This has been mentioned in the article now but I just tidied up the grammar a bit as it wasn't clear from the start of that section that it was just a rumour and not a fact. However, I'm not sure why the rumour was even mentioned (and mentioned as if it was a cold hard fact) here in the first place. The source, notstarring.com, doesn't seem very reliable as it relies on reader contributions. A quick google search for "Bale auditions for Robin" just brings up more of the same kind of sites, a lot of which I fear are just perpetuating an unverified rumour they probably gleaned from Wikipedia itself! Was this rumour ever in a reliable source? It seems to me that we shouldn't be using sites like these as a source anyway and the very fact that Bale then dispelled the rumour proves their unreliability. With this in mind can the assertion that Bale also auditioned for the role in Jarhead be backed up by a more reliable source than notstarring.com? She'sGotSpies (talk) 15:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

velvet goldmine

Christian Bale did not play the lead role in Velvet Goldmine, in fact he didn't appear at all. Jonathan Rhys Meyers played the lead, Brian Slade. Mariantonia (talk) 15:01, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

He was in Velvet Goldmine. He played the character of Arthur Stuart. I'm not sure if you can classify it as the lead but it was a key role as the story follows Bale's journalist as he tries to find out about the faked death of his hero (Jonathan Rhys Meyers). She'sGotSpies (talk) 14:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

VANDALISED

THIS PAGE GOT VANDALISED OH MY GOD! Murtagh756 (talk) 21:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

References

Can someone sort out reference 38? I'm not sure how to do it but it isn't displaying correctly and has removed some information from the main text. Cheers! She'sGotSpies (talk) 22:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for pointing that out. -- Chickenmonkey ^X  sign?  00:48, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Vegetarian

It states that he is a vegetarian (since the age of 11), yet he is quoted as eating chicken breast for months for the filming of American Psycho. Is he a "sometimes vegetarian"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.108.41.70 (talk) 23:23, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Christian Bale is English

Can whoever keep changing his description to Welsh or British please stop. Bale self identifies as English (the 2 refs are just 2 examples) - there is no further discussion to have here!

92.9.75.34 (talk) 12:40, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

And it's changed again. What's really annoying is that it is randomly changed without changing the refs. How can we have an opening statement that says 'Christian Bale is a Welsh actor' with two references that point to interviews with Bale saying 'I'm English' and talking about his English accent and English teeth...? If people are going to change a statement, then back it up! If we desperately need to have his birthplace in the opening statement then can't we just go back to 'is a Welsh-born English actor', which is then backed up by the refs? After all, this is what is working at Bruce Willis. Nobody would suggest he is anything but American and yet right there in the first sentence it says 'is a German-born American actor'. That doesn't even have any refs and yet nobody bats an eyelid or complains it doesn't make sense. Besides this, I have seen this kind of wording in other encyclopedias. In particular the Oxford Encyclopedia refers to Mel Gibson as a 'US-born Australian actor'. There is nothing wrong with that wording and it would give a feeling of the nomadic lifestyle Bale had as a boy.

The other element that seems to change constantly is the paragraph that talks about the countries he has lived in. Again this keeps changing from UK to England and back again. Could we put 'spent his childhood in several countries including Wales, England, Portugal and the United States' (unless someone tells us he spent time in Scotland too)? She'sGotSpies (talk) 19:46, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

What happened to including where someone was born in the lead? I mean the actual location as is stated in the infobox. I think that could end this. Such as:

"Christian Charles Philip Bale (also known professionally as Christian Morgan Bale; born January 30, 1974 in Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales) is an English actor whose..."

It seems I remember articles about people used to include this information in the lead, but now it's like they're all excluding it. Maybe it's a decision I missed or something. -- Chickenmonkey ^X  sign?  01:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

In the past 24 hours, that one sentence has changed 7 times. I don't know what to do if it keeps changing with no discussion on the talk page and the vast majority of the changes without even an edit summary to back it up. I feel that we should be concentrating on further improving the rest of the article rather than spending so much time changing and then reverting that sentence over and over... She'sGotSpies (talk) 08:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Any edits changing the English description should be reverted asap. He isn't Welsh and there are numerous quotes from the man himself describing himself as English. Perhaps it would be an idea to semi-protect the page, as it is only ip editors who are removing the correct English description.

92.12.238.243 (talk) 10:38, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Although, ironically, that would prevent you (as an ip) from editing the page and being able to revert the description... She'sGotSpies (talk) 10:59, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I understand that, but it would block all the ip editors who keep changing it.

92.12.147.195 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 11:44, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Anglo-Welsh, Welsh-English or a variation on a theme seems the way to go, rather than just Welsh.Londo06 10:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

No - Welsh doesn't come in to it at all - because... get this - he isn't Welsh. Quite easy to understand. THERE ARE ALREADY 2 REFERENCES WHERE HE REFERS TO HIMSELF AS ENGLISH.

92.12.147.195 (talk) 11:43, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

To Londo06: I don't think that Anglo-Welsh really works because it is a bit ambiguous. If I didn't know he was born in Wales I would wonder what on earth 'Anglo-Welsh' meant. I think it should either be just 'English actor' or 'Welsh-born English actor' She'sGotSpies (talk) 12:16, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Read the Anglo-Welsh article, it doesn't describe Bale. Cop 663 (talk) 12:52, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I have seen him described many times as a Welsh actor. It isn't really good enough to have just English up there, everywhere else seems to describe any issues such as this up-front. Welsh-English, English-Welsh, British, etc or a variation on the theme would ride at the front of the bus, with the further explanation in the further paragraphs.Londo06 14:02, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

So this article should reflect misinformation spread by some press articles? There are already 2 references. FFS.

92.12.147.195 (talk) 15:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

As seen with Russell Crowe.Londo06 14:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

That isn't a relevant example, as the Australian part of his description is based on him gaining Australian citizenship.

92.12.147.195 (talk) 15:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Would this serve as sufficient evidence to end this monotony? -- Chickenmonkey ^X  sign?  19:17, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Good thinking Batman! :) The phrase 'I was born in Wales but I'm not Welsh, I'm English' straight from Bale's lips couldn't be more explicit. Can we let it rest on 'English actor' now? She'sGotSpies (talk) 19:27, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Still think it would be good to have Welsh-born English actor right up front. Good sourcing though, I have seen him in numerous pieces described as Welsh, but that actually contains a question put to him on the matter.Londo06 19:21, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

While it may behoove the article to include "Welsh-born" (or some variation thereon), I'd recommend letting it stand as is. This "Welsh or English" thing has been quite a point of contention here and, since it is already stated twice in the article that Bale was born in Wales, I think the article can stand without having "Welsh-born" included. Like I said, I'd just leave it as is, but that's me. -- Chickenmonkey ^X  sign?  19:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Good job on finding that interview. Best ref so far in my opinion - so I've added it to the main article, if that's alright. --Bloodloss (talk) 19:42, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

This is a prime example of an article where it makes sense to say he's a British actor. JRawle (Talk) 14:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. This is a prime example of an article where it makes sense to say he's a English actor. The actor himself has explicitly rejected that he is Welsh and identifies as English. Therefore he is an English actor. She'sGotSpies (talk) 14:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The only nationality that appears in passports is British. "English", "Welsh", etc. is simply a matter of what people call themselves. In normal circumstances, some might argue that it's therefore reasonable to use English or Welsh at the start of the article, and that's a debate to be had elsewhere. For this specific article, there could be a great deal of confusion for people (non-UK readers) who aren't familiar with "English" and "Welsh" being labels that people can simply choose. They may believe there's some sort of formal English or Welsh nationality, and may then be confused to read that Christian Bale is English: "Surely he's Welsh, as that's why Spielberg had him pretending to sing a Welsh hymn?" British at the start makes sense. The article can later explain that he was born in Wales and considers himself English. JRawle (Talk) 14:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Utter nonsense. He's English - he repeatedly refers to himself as English. You are removing sourced text - stop it.

92.12.223.40 (talk) 15:11, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

So first you say it's utter nonsense, then you agree with me by saying he refers to himself as being English. There is no legal definition of English or Welsh nationality, that's a fact. You may not agree with my opinion, but it isn't nonsense. I have also not removed any text from the article, sourced or otherwise. JRawle (Talk) 15:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

JRawle, anyone who is not familiar with the meaning of 'English' and 'Welsh' can click on the links and read about them. Cop 663 (talk) 15:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

JRawle is right in that Welsh and English are not official nationalities. But if it says he is British in the article, then people will continue to be confused about him being Welsh. So its better it says he is English, then everyone knows what his true home is (not Wales). If for example it was someone like Andy Murray, who it is clear comes from Scotland, then you could refer to him as British because many people already know he is a Scot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.204.60 (talk) 10:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Got it at Welsh-born English actor as we have had English and British over the recent edits.Londo06 12:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

That's fine with me. I think it's important to have what nationality Bale identifies as but "Welsh-born" is a solid fact so "Welsh-born English actor" is fine with me. Strange how we have just come back round to what it was when the ip address raised his concerns in June 2006 (See top of talk page)... She'sGotSpies (talk) 14:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it's fine like that. But calling him 'Welsh-born' might be a bit redundant since it says both in the infobox and in the 'Early Life' section where he was born. Perhaps the lead sentence could read "Christian Charles Philip Bale (also known professionally as Christian Morgan Bale; born 30 January 1974 in Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales) is an English actor." Either way, it doesn't really matter I suppose. --Bloodloss 19:50, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I propose, for the sake of stability, we leave it like it is unless someone comes along and objects in particular to the phrase 'Welsh-born'. In that case we could try your suggestion. Makes no real difference though as they both mean the same thing. :) Plus, I suppose, having exactly where he was born in the lead would mean that the next section would read as a bit more obviously repetitive as it repeats that info, so 'Welsh-born' adds a bit of variety of language. She'sGotSpies (talk) 20:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Nationality of Parents

In the article it states "[...]to entrepreneur, commercial pilot, and talent manager David Bale and circus clown and performer Jenny James, both English." However, the listed reference does not say they are both English at all, from what I can see. I'm not saying they aren't English - I think they probably are, I'd just like someone to find a reference for this as I can't seem to.

I know nothing of Jenny James, but David Bale was born in South Africa. He clearly had connections to England, but I have no idea whether he had British citizenship or not. I've already started a section on the David Bale talk page, but it hasn't gathered much attention, unsurprisingly. --Bloodloss 22:40, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that reference was meant to prove that they were his parents rather than that they were English. However, I've put in two more references to back it up a bit although I think it is hard to get definite statements of their nationality. One says 'Jenny James Bale of England' (although it puts Christian Bale and one of his siblings as 'of California' so it probably is talking about where they live) and the other is the ref Bloodloss put on the David Bale talk page. Hope that is clearer She'sGotSpies (talk) 12:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if Wikipedia has a written policy on this kind of thing - where it's incredibly difficult to find sources for such a thing, and the topic in general, but it's still very likely so you're allowed to make educated assumptions, or such? It's not a particularly important topic I guess, but still. --Bloodloss 17:11, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:NOR probably relates to that. I know I saw a print interview years back where Bale described himself as something like "entirely English" by ancestry, but I can't find it again. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 22:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Accused of assault by Mum and Sister

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24059320-23109,00.html --Faith (talk) 09:25, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't know, do we include that? Is it relevant? Do we wait to see if it is taken further beyond just an accusation? Is The Sun reliable?? I don't know, I'm clueless :P She'sGotSpies (talk) 11:10, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

It was put in again (but without the above source). Can we please discuss it here first? I'm happy to include it if policy says we can but I'm unsure about it as it is a controversial accusation and the police are at the moment just looking in to it. I don't think that a bio of a living person should have unfounded statements in it, and we don't know yet if this accusation is unfounded or not. Like I said, I'm not averse to putting it in but only if it is relevant and backed up by policy. She'sGotSpies (talk) 12:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7519689.stm

Seems that the allegation and arrest are sufficiently well documented and of appropriate notability from this, I'd say. (Front page of BBC news). --Cncoote (talk) 14:14, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

It's fair enough to put that he's been arrested, because he has, but I'm not sure it needs to go in the intro section of the article. It feels a bit tacked on at the end where it is at the moment.194.66.66.136 (talk) 15:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I've heard that it was just verbal abuse. 4.153.219.108 (talk) 18:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Some individuals keep asserting this in their edits, but until there is a source that says it was "verbal assault", it will remain as just plain "assault" in the article. Thesis4Eva ^cont. _talk 23:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The Telegraph source cites the police as calling it an allegation of a "minor" common assault, btw. As there are degrees of assault in English law, should the link instead point to the common assault article? I won't be checking back on this article, but I just thought I'd mention that as I was passing through. All the best, Steve ^{T • C} 23:25, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Then give us a source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.252.135.253 (talk) 20:10, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Is this event even encyclopedic? 72.28.80.14 (talk) 21:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

If the case is tried then yes. If it is dismissed then heck no. Can't be filling up wikipedia with everyone's allegations now can we.219.89.198.82 (talk) 01:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow, lookie. No charges. http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/08/14/bale.no.charges.ap/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.28.80.14 (talk) 18:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Even if he is not charged, the fact that he was arrested on the basis of allegations made by his mother and sister must be considered as a significant episode in his personal life, and as being as notable as most of the other information in the section. WhaleyTim (talk) 12:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeh the press are having quite a field day with it for one thing, I'd say it's notable even if it doesn't go to court.80.7.59.211 (talk) 14:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I just think that we are giving undue weight to a small incident in his life, especially with the arrest having it's own section and everything. We have to remember that Wikipedia is not a news site; the barrage of people editing and putting in up-to-the-minute updates of the situation since the news broke has been ridiculous. We also have to remember that this is a biography of a living person and it is important that we get it right rather than rush to be the first to put in any details we know (or think we know). The press might be having a field day but Wikipedia is not a tabloid newspaper, it is an encyclopedia. Only relevant, notable and verifiable facts should be included. She'sGotSpies (talk) 14:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm.. The facts certainly are relevant (they relate to the subject of the article), they are notable within the context of a section dealing with his personal life (for the reasons I outlined above) and verifiable (the BBC and the Daily Telepgraph can on the whole be relied on for matters of fact within the UK, if not always for matters of opinion). A storm of editing is to be expected in these circumstances - this was why I introduced a section heading to draw editors to one part of the article rather than have them adding content all over the place. Once the storm has died down, it can be re-edited in less sensational terms - but I believe the facts do have a place in an encyclopedia entry about him WhaleyTim (talk) 16:10, 23 July 2008 (UTC).

Wikipedia is not a tabloid nor is it a newspaper. This is an ongoing police matter and I don't believe this, an encyclopedia article, should go into the details it currently goes into. I believe there should be: a mention he was arrested, released, and denied the allegations. If there is further information to add in the future (if he's charged, tried, and/or found guilty) then that should be added then. As for changing the article (adding an unnecessary header) to accommodate vandals; it shouldn't happen. Wikipedia does not accommodate vandals in any way. This should be especially adhered to when dealing with biographies of living people. -- Chickenmonkey ^X  sign?  21:03, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The small segment on his arrest is really inaccurate. Bale was released with no charges and free bail. Here it states he was bailed implying there was a cost. He is due to return to the station in September. Additionally, Bale was not actually "arrested", he drove to the police station after he heard his mother and sister had accused him of assault. This small segment on the arrest casts the incident in very vague and dark terms. Please, Wikipedia is better than the headline grubbing media.Kumquat-agent (talk) 03:21, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

My aim in reducing the length of the segment was to avoid undue weight and speculation. To my understanding; he was, actually, arrested following his visit to the police station. He was "booked", held for questioning and released without being charged. If you feel it should read differently, please, be bold and edit it. -- Chickenmonkey ^X  sign?  04:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

It has to be included, it's been a massive part of The Dark Knight's publicity, made world-wide news and made an incredible change to his public image. Although now they're saying it was just a push on his mother, and now "The mother and sister of Dark Knight star Christian Bale have denied they called the police to report any assault." [2] That quote was a summary in the email sendout reporting the article, but isn't in the article, so i'm not sure if they've edited the article since the email was sent out or what? Nevertheless, it is still notable because of it's general affect on his image. It has also been suggested the death of Heath Ledger has made him depressed and due to this, his outburst. [3] kiac (talk) 07:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

It's my understanding that the purpose of this article is to only document his life, not give minute-by-minute updates of "reported this" and "suggested that". Again, this is just to my understanding, but I believe wikinews is where that type of stuff should be. Here, only an overview of the events in his life is needed. If we add everything like: a source says it was just verbal assault, his mother and sister are denying they called the police, he lashed out because he's sad about Heath Ledger, he had a bologna sandwich, etc. It just fills up the article with empty information and gives undue weight to one event in his life. Again, this is just to my understanding. -- Chickenmonkey ^X  sign?  07:56, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

(unindent)It's much better now that it no longer has it's own section. If I read the sources right he was actually arrested (but I think under English Law this is not as bad as it sounds) as the police say they 'arrested a 34 year old man' and he did attend the station by appointment. He didn't go there just because he heard about the allegation but because the police actually asked him to come. But all this is irrelevant to my point... I have deliberately tried to refrain from editing the section because I would be inclined to remove most of it (if not all) and I know it would just be put back again as others disagree as to its importance. My main worry is that we seem to be judging this one episode of his life when we have no idea what happened yet. kiac says 'It has to be included, it's been a massive part of The Dark Knight's publicity, made world-wide news and made an incredible change to his public image.' (my emphasis) How can we possibly know that? There is always a flurry of press activity over something like this, it doesn't mean that the furore will last any more than a few days. In a few months we might have forgotten all about this and, for all we know, the allegation could be false. Should we mark the man with that one allegation for the rest of his life? It's fair enough that newspapers report things like this but they are not a permanent entry on his life, like Wikipedia is. His Wikipedia entry should include information that is notable for his entire career/life, not just for a couple of days. We can't know that this information will be notable until we know more and yet by including it in his bio entry, Wikipedia is actually perpetuating its notability. We must be giving it undue weight if we don't know all the details of the incident... She'sGotSpies (talk) 08:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I say we just leave it as is. But in response to your point, people are remembered for one thing in their lives, of course they are. How many times in the future/past has Bale featured in every newspaper around the world while being the lead actor in the number one film in the world? This story is getting more coverage than anything else in his past life, and more than likely his future, he will be remembered as the 'mum basher' - unless there is some massive twist, like it was a total hoax/setup. Yeah, it's horrible to say that, but the media is a bitch, and an encyclopedia should be covering the biggest/most well-known parts/events of his life, should it not? kiac (talk) 10:41, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree that a couple of lines with good references to factual rather than speculative sources is all that is required. I do not agree with the argument that including the episode will artificially perpetuate it's notability. It has become a matter of public record throughout the world. The news reports, both factual and speculative, will be stored and referenced in on and off line newspaper archives, commercial press cutting libraries, private and commercial websites etc etc and will be available for many years to come to anyone interested enough in Christian Bale to Google his name.WhaleyTim (talk) 12:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Many web gossip columns are saying that Bale will be cautioned. This story appears to come from an article in the UK Sun newspaper [[4]] - not always a reliable source. WhaleyTim (talk) 16:07, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Nasty bump on his face

What's that big nasty bump on his face, kind of on the side of his nose near his right eye?

I was watching an entertainment show today and thry Had Christian Bale on it, I hadn't ever heard of the guy before, but all i kept lookig at was this gigantic bump, it was massive and it's been their for a lot of years because they were showing flash back interviews from as far back as 2000.

It's called a nose. kiac (talk) 14:20, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Wife

"Politika" (Serbian daily, printed edition) on 03 August 2008, page 31, published an article about Slobodan BLAZIC, a retired former restaurateur from Indian Wells, California, born in Belgrade. He claims that his daughter Srbislava 'Sibi' BLAZIC, is the wife of Christian Bale. Apparently her mother is Nadezda Topalski, also from Belgrade. Slobodan and Nadezda married in the Belgrade municipality of Vracar, and Srbislava 'Sibi' was born in Chicago. He claims that Sibi never lived in Bosnia and never was a model, but she was/is a personal assistant to Miss Winona Ryder. Now whether this is a hoax or not I don't know. There is a photo of the whole family and another photo of Mr Bale and Sibi. "Politika" is a quite serious papers and for the benefit of accuracy of Wikipedia someone should check this out. Popytrewq (talk) 22:50, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Independently from the fact that Sibi Blazic is Bale's current spouse, she is an actress who has her own entry-- Sibi Blazic at IMDb. She ought to have a proper Wikipedia article about her, instead of a mere REDIRECT to Christian Bale's article. This situation reflects a very degrading, macho attitude, and must be corrected. Trouble is, how to delete a REDIRECT? --AVM (talk) 13:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Sibi Blazic now re-created as a 'stub under construction' Perhaps someone can put some content in it.WhaleyTim (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, she's not actually an actress. She was Winona Ryder's assistant and that is the information that is on IMDB, she is on the crew list as an assistant on various films. This isn't a 'degrading, "macho" attitude', it's just that she has not done that much work in the public sphere. What other star's PAs have their own Wikipedia article? The reason she does not have an entry is because she is merely not notable enough for an encyclopedia, there's no judgement on her or her work, she is just not known for her work by the general public. I understand that she is now a freelance producer and if she becomes successful in that field then it might be time to consider making an article for her but at the moment she is only widely known for being Christian Bale's spouse. She'sGotSpies (talk) 16:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

1st Paragraph: "Independent films prior to success with Batman"

I've changed this final sentence from the first paragraph that read:

"Before he found success in playing Batman, he was heavily involved in independent films."

My revision reads:

"In addition to starring roles, such as Batman, in big budget Hollywood films, he has long been heavily involved in independent and art house films."

The reasons for change are as followings: Firstly, there's no evidence that Bale's involvement with independent films is limited to the past tense, so to speak. Secondly, he didn't quite "find success in playing Batman," as he was already a critically and professionally successful actor upon taking up the role of Batman. Finally, over the years he has acted and starred in both studio as well as independent films. Peer Gynt (talk) 21:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Christian Bale as Solid Snake?

This isn't confirmed, so should it be removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.68.56.246 (talk) 04:59, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Daughter's name

Apparently, they are claiming that the daughter's name is not Emmaline but they are not saying what it actually is. For some reason, they seem to think that it is important that this name is not released which is a tad strange, but I guess until there is real confirmation, the name should be removed? Sky83 (talk) 11:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Convert to metric

Nice article, shouldn't all the .lbs weights be put in kilograms? Being the english version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.249.12.129 (talk) 11:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Dicot of Wales ?

The Early Life section opens with "Although Bale was born in the county Dicot of Wales" Dicot of Wales ?? What or where is that? That's a new one on me. YrFyrddin (talk) 01:33, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Me to! I've removed it. Fi9 (talk) 19:09, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

See Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Christian Bale/1. The result was delist, per unanimous consensus. Cirt (talk) 01:11, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Controversy: angry tirade section is too long

The "angry tirade" section in "Controversy" now constitutes 10% of the article (400 words in a 3858 word article, where only paragraph words are counted; i.e. not counting tables and reference section). Undue significance is being given to the event in this article. Perhaps cutting the section down would be a good idea. Ha! (talk) 00:00, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

-- Internet remix is by RevoLucian, not RevaLucian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.80.231 (talk) 20:11, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed; I'm not trying to advocate leaving anything out, but it simply seems too long.  Aaron  ►  06:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

But is it PROFESSIONAL? Daniel Case (talk) 03:11, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

The Family Guy episode mentioned is Ocean's Three and a Half. 71.194.32.252 (talk) 04:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Welsh and English?

How can someone be Welsh born and be an English actor? Surely this should read Welsh born and British actor? 68.219.227.41 02:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Correct, he is Welsh, but he's turned his back on his country to pretend he is English so his popularity in America increases. No matter what he likes to think, he is Welsh.

I'm sure Americans could care less if dude is Welsh... please.. thats a limey hang-up --63.118.45.4 (talk) 15:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Will you please listen to yourself, its pathetic. "He's turned his back on his country", this isnt the middle ages! He was born in Wales to English parents, and has never lived there since a very young age. As you will see from the discussion below, other famous people were born abroad, but that doens't make them that nationality. Angela Thorne was born in Pakistan, is she Pakistani? No. This applies to many people. Bale is of English ancestry, English upbringing and, its believed, called himself English; to say he's Welsh because he was born there is totally illogical. --Berks105 16:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Angela Thorne was born in Pakistan, is she Pakistani? No.'

That is completely different, Wales and England are not independent states where citizenships and such like exist. Christian Bale's parent are of British citizenship, not English so he can not simply choose to be English. Angela Thorne can choose to be British, as her parents are of British citizenship, and I'm assuming she now is, but she can not choose to be English.

There again you are wrong. Angela Thorne is English, she was born in Pakistan (then India) because her parents were working there at the time. Your sentance "Christian Bale's parent are of British citizenship", then put him as British then! Not one is of English, Scottish or Welsh citizenship as they are not independant countries, but people from those countries and with that heritage are that nationality. See more at your Talk Page. --Berks105 18:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

How exactly does this Angela Thorne (whoever she is) qualify to be English? --Wiki119

Because her parents were English, she grew up there, lives there. You cannot, as you seem to suggest, judge someone nationality by their place of birth. --Berks105 20:17, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

How ridiculous. His parents are of English ancestry, therefore he is English. Fact. --Krsont 17:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Of course you can have different Nationality than that which you were born to, otherwise Kiefer Sutherland would be English and John McEnroe would be German! Madjackmcmad 20:01, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Is Bruce Willis German? Whataboutbob 19:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Can't the problem be solved by changing it into "He's a British actor"??? --Nikachu 11:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

How do people actually know his parents are of English ancestry? According to David Bale his father was born in South Africa. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 14:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd come here to read more about Mr Bale having seen Empire of the Sun again for the umpteenth time. Highlighting the fact he was born in Wales in the opening paragraph is misleading, in that the reader is lead to believe the subject is of Welsh extraction. And he isn't, his mother happened to have given birth there. Eddie Izzard was born in Aden but he's not Yemeni is he? ThwartedEfforts (talk) 18:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Bale has stated several times that he was born in Wales but considers himself English. His parents are English and he is English. Being born in a country doesnt necessary mean that you take it's nationality. For example my cousin was born in Singapore, it doesnt make him Singaporean. If someone can find a quote of Bale saying that he is English (im sure i've seen this a few times) and cite it then we can put 'an English actor' then put 'Welsh town, Wales' under place of birth. As far as i know this is the normal procedure for people born in places they do not identify themselves as being nationals of. Also, the comment about Wales not being independent but having a GBR passport is not relevant in this situation because if it were the case then all people born in Britain would be listed as 'British' rather than Welsh, Scottish, English etc. Anyway, i think in this case that we should cite Bale and use his view of his nationality as fact.LufbraDan (talk) 06:01, 5 June 2008 (UTC)LufbraDan

I cannot believe his English nationality is being disputed. BOTH his parents are English and he grew up predominantly in England. I was born in Tunisia to English parents, I lived there 'till I was 8, does that make me Tunisian? No. Good god, its bad enough the Welsh taking all the credit for things like Rorke's Drift when most of the troops there were English! Bale is English, end of story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gulf6832 (talk • contribs) 23:57, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I've updated the page and used as reference an interview he gave with ninemsn.com, in which he refers to himself as being English on two different occasions. I've only ever seen him refer to himself as such; if he were Welsh, he'd refer to himself as Welsh. There is no dispute, just the usual suspects looking to celebrities like Bale to give them a sense of worth. Stop it, people, please ThwartedEfforts (talk) 17:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I can assure you that the Welsh don't claim him! I keep changing it to English but some idiots keep changing it back! -- Maelor  17:19, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I have changed the cats to British. Welsh born to a South African father and English mother, grew up in Bournemouth - a bit of Heinz 57 variety, so British unless someone can find a clear identifying statement. A couple of issues to resolve - firstly, the ref inserted by ThwartedEfforts refers to an English accent and English teeth: can't see those are facts identifying him as English. Secondly, having just watched the Welsh lunchtime news the local BBC and ITV channels do claim him as Welsh - but that of course is not identifying fact. Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 12:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I've never seen him identified as Welsh except here. The reason we're having this silly debate is because people are confusing birthplace with nationality, and blow me if you've not gone and made the same mistake about his father, born in South Africa but not a South African. Please also read the article to which I linked. It quotes Bale as saying, "...I'm English and I like my pint of beer." If he's not English, why would he say so? Continuing this debate is just so ridiculous ThwartedEfforts (talk) 21:18, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

(unindent)Ok the article keeps seeming to change from British to English and back again. Can I suggest that editors reach a consensus here before changing the article again? For what it's worth, I think we should always refer to people as they themselves identify. Both references currently on that first sentence have Bale say explicitly 'I'm English'. Plus I found another reference here where he talks about the benefits of "being English" while playing the character of Bateman. I'm not particularly bothered whether we describe him as Welsh, English or British as long as that is how he describes himself. The references all point to him identifying as 'English' She'sGotSpies (talk) 11:19, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

I can only assume the article is being targetted by Welsh nationalists who like to claim everything as Welsh. There are 2 refs where he clearly refers to himself as English - end of discussion.

92.13.77.9 (talk) 19:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Anglo-Welsh, Welsh-English or a variation on a theme seems the way to go, rather than just Welsh.Londo06 08:24, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

No, for the umpteenth time, because place of birth has no bearing on nationality. The article already states he was born in Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, and that's the extent of his connection with the place. Had he been born on a plane over the Atlantic, would he be Anglo-Boeing? ThwartedEfforts (talk) 12:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

He IS Welsh-Born, and he IS English. If you were born in Singapore, to English parents, and moved to England at age 1 month, you would be Singpore-born English. You can't dispute where he was born, and you can't dispute his nationality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.192.175 (talk) 15:58, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

If you damn Brits can't make up your mind, America is just going to claim him. :) Morte42 (talk) 09:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

The openeing paagraph sounds a bit dodgy, Born in Wales, something about Bale self identifying himself as English.... Surely just metion that he was born in wales, but make no reference to his nationality. To the comment above that reads "you can't dispute his nationality", I say that you can dispute his nationality, i've read the references- where bale was asked about being a welshman etc. Unfortunately, in Britain, it is the norm to link nationality to where you were born. However, there are other celebrities born in wales, but consider themselves english or british: Ian Hislop (Have I Got News For You, on BBC TV), John Prescott (Former Deputy Prime Minister of the UK). It could be worth checking out their pages to see how their "nationalities" are described. 86.0.190.37 (talk) 23:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe the problem is caused by Welsh Nationalists "claiming" him, or anything like that. It's a simple fact that the opening paragraph is ludicrous: it says he was born in one region but then describes him as being from another region without any explanation. Note, we aren't talking about nationality since Wales and England haven't been nations for centuries. If you must state his nationality then it's clearly British. The fact that he claims to be from a particular region is irrelevant; someone can claim to be a Yorkshireman or Lancastrian but his nationality is still British. Three solutions: remove the nationality reference altogether; use the proper nationality (British) not his region; or explain the apparent inconsistency in that paragraph.. DaveWFarthing (talk) 10:28, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Looking through this current version is the most stable one that has been on this page. There are accredited sources that run through his nationality and that he regards himself as English. Any other variant seems to just throw up an edit war. Welsh-born English actor appeases on both sides and works on a descriptive level.Londo06 10:37, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Born in Britain, so he is British. Avoid the Wales and England bit. His passport will say United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Just call him British. Incidentally, there is no such country as "Wales"; Wales is a Principality and technically, part of England. (Kentish 3 Jan 09) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.211.58.139 (talk) 15:53, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Surely saying he's Welsh means he's automatically British?! I don't see why we need to have Welsh born British actor saying he's Welsh is enough. Either way, there should be consistancy... Catherine Zeta-Jones is just a Welsh Actress (not Welsh born, British actress), the same for Anthony Hopkins. Why should Bale need a different introduction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richardeast (talk • contribs) 13:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Clearly he should simply be labelled as English actor. He isn't Welsh, regardless of the hordes of Welsh nationalists targeting the article to attempt to prove otherwise. There are countless articles regarding actors and notable people where people are born in one country but it is the country they most grow up in and self identify with that defines their nationality. And with Christian Bale this is further enforced by the fact that both his parents are English. For example, Mila Kunis was born in Ukraine to Ukrainian parents but she's considered American because that's where she grew up and self identifies as.

I highly doubt that if you attempt to change Joe Calzaghe's entry to "Joe Calzaghe is an English-born British boxer" that it will remain that way for even an hour. Not only is it correct to call him English, it's also consistent with the rest of Wikipedia. The argument that since he has a hint of South African heritage he should be labelled British is absolutely ridiculous. Especially when you consider that the ancestry from South Africa was probably originally from England. No country other than England would be subjected to this level of bias; to the point where if there's a hint of non-English about them they are instantly labelled British.

And the people who come up with bizarre statements like "there's no such nation as England or Wales or Scotland" need to get a grip of themselves. It's blatantly obvious they're acting with an agenda otherwise they would attack every other article of every other actor from England/Wales/Scotland for being represented as English/Welsh/Scottish. The reason they don't is because they know they wouldn't get anywhere, and they see this article as an easy target because of the level of debate.

The pincer movement of the people who think him being born in Wales is worthy of instant notice, and the people trying to claim that he should be classed as British will lead large amounts of people (who aren't well informed) to believe that Bale is Welsh. And this is obviously false. Those of you who keep changing his name to Welsh-born or Welsh or Welsh-born British should either stop doing so, or change the Calzaghe page and enter into the discussion on that article with the same arguments you've put forth here. You've made it so it's no longer about factual accuracy, but 'who gets to claim him'. (just for the record - I'm Scottish).

Change it back to English actor and maintain Wikipedia's integrity, for all our sakes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.36.190 (talk) 10:23, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Vegetarian?

The article states that Bale has been a vegetarian since age six, but in the DVD commentary for American Psycho, the writers and director repeatedly discuss the strict diet and exercise routine he went through to look like Patrick Bateman is described in the novel. In their discussions, they mention him "eating nothing but chicken breast" and complaining that constantly complained of "being sick of chicken breast." This would imply that he ate meat as recently as 1999 or 2000. Nsfreeman (talk) 21:16, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

British/Welsh/English in the lead

A user has requested mediation on this issue. A mediator will be here shortly to assist you. The case page for this mediation is located here.

See Talk:Christian Bale#Welsh and English? above as well. Ha! (talk) 00:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to return to this as I see it's discussed further up the page. However, more sources call him British than anything, one calls him Welsh, in an interview transcript which seems to be on some part of IMDB he calls himself English but born in Wales (I didn't understand this in the article at first as I had been on my treadmill for an hour and was a bit hazy lol but I get it now I read it in the interview because he put it in sentence form- 'My parents are English, but I was born in Wales', or something like that) The problem is the wording is slightly awkward, or the lead few words are a bit awkward. Maybe we don't need this detail in the lead- it will be at the start of the article anyway. He is British anyway so we could just put that in the lead, then discuss the intricacies of it further down. Because in this compact a form the reader looks at it-as someone did above) and goes 'eh? that doesn't make sense' (although I know it does.) If it is put in a proper sentence, as it probably is further down the article, then readers will easily understand it, and not have that 'eh?' moment over something that's really not as convoluted as it sounds. It sounds like what it probably is- the result of an edit war. I'm going to go ahead and change it just for ease and smoothness of reading and because no-one can argue that he's not British, but feel free to rv me if you disagree as I have no intense feelings on the matter, I just think it will be clearer to the reader and paradoxically more understandable and easy on the brain and eye. Sticky Parkin 01:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Not this old sh*t again. Christian bale should be identified as English. If the Welsh can claim Joe Calzaghe, then we have every right to take credit for Christian Bale. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.161.138.45 (talk) 22:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I haven't been around for a while but I see this has raised it's head again... 'Welsh-born English actor' was stable for quite a few months. I don't see what is confusing, or awkward about that statement. That's what he is. He was born in Wales but identifies as English. The problem with using just 'British' is that it is not informative at all. This is an encyclopedia and is meant to inform people not just make vague statements to avoid confusing someone for a millisecond. My problem is, Sticky Parkin, that you seem to have made changes without reading either the references or the article thoroughly. Bale doesn't say in the IMDB reference "my parents are English, but I was born in Wales" he says "I was born in Wales but I'm not Welsh - I'm English." And the article doesn't explain further down that he was born in Wales but identifies as English, as you assume, it talks about him being born in Wales and then moving to England as well as Portugal and the United States. We are ignoring the fact that he identifies as English. Any reader who doesn't know Bale's history will see 'British' and the fact that he was born in Wales and just see him as Welsh through and through. And anyone who is wondering whether he is Welsh or not will come to this article and get the very vague 'British' statement and be none the wiser. I think Welsh and English need to be side by side from the beginning. We need to give equal weight to the fact that he was born in Wales and the fact that he identifies as English. 'Welsh-born English actor' was a considered statement (see the debate above) that was a compromise between numerous editors. Please don't just dismiss it as sounding awkward and 'the result of an edit war'. We discussed the issue and that is the stable compromise we came to. As you have no intense feelings on the matter, I'm going to change it back. She'sGotSpies (talk) 11:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I looked at the Joe Calzaghe page and it simply has 'welsh' in the lead, with the place of birth mentioned in the info box, shouldn't we go for uniformity here?Halbared (talk) 10:45, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Just call him British. Duh. 88.109.1.50 (talk) 13:54, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Wandering in here at random, I'll put in my two-penn'orth anyway. I work a lot on biographies of cricketers, and many of them are born abroad. In fact, three recent England captains were born outside the UK: Nasser Hussain (India), Kevin Pietersen (South Africa) and Andrew Strauss (also South Africa). Even for those who find Pietersen's self-proclaimed Englishness controversial, Hussain and Strauss are without doubt English. What's best is what seems to have been done here: say "Welsh-born English" and add an explanation (via citations if appropriate) for why he's not considered Welsh. I don't think it sounds awkward at all; I've written equivalent phrases in several cricketers' biographies and never had them challenged. (Of course, "British" isn't an option with cricketers since, as with football, there isn't a British team but England [and Wales], Scotland and Ireland.) Loganberry (Talk) 15:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the current opening seems to sum it up well - Welsh born British actor. When you take into account he has South African parentage it's just one of those wonderful mixes that best categorises as British. Rgds, --86.150.188.24 (talk) 00:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Just to thrown some stuff into the mix

• "Christian Bale" "British actor": Google News search = 184 hits, Google search = 23,800 hits. "Christian Bale" "Welsh Actor": Google News search = 100 hits, Google search = 6,490 hits. "Christian Bale" "English Actor": Google News search = 58 hits, Google search = 5,670 hits. Obviously the normal caveats about the relevance of Google news hits and Google hits apply but it does give an idea of how the world at large regards him

• You can have a Welsh-born British person, in the same way that you can have a London-born British person. In other words the fact that Welsh is a subset of British doesn't make Welsh-born British person illogical (see the diff here [5] for why I mention this). As to whether it's a sensible phrase or not is another matter but it's not a phrase you can't have. Note that both Welsh-born British and Welsh-born English are rare phrases on Wikipedia (5 and 7 hits), whereas that type of phrase when referring to two completely distinct nations (e.g. something like French-born Brazilian or Chinese-born English) is quite common on Wikipedia.

• He is a primary source on himself. Without a secondary source, a primary source may be used only to make descriptive claims, the accuracy of which is verifiable by a reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge. Just because he calls himself English doesn't mean he is (nor does it mean he's not); you can aspire to be or identify with whatever you choose to, but I'm not sure that's relevant to how the rest of the world defines you, as per the norms they use for classifying people. Also, I noticed on a GMTV interview [6] that he says "I'm not a true Taffy" ... "I like that people call me that [he's referring to people calling him Taffy]". The choice of the word "true" indicates to me that he does regard himself as a Taffy in some kind of sense, although not a true sense (that's conjecture on my part though). I mention this because, to me, it shows some ambiguity in how he regards himself, not because I believe he's particularly Welsh or English.

I would personally go for calling him just "British" in the lead (after all no one disagrees with him being British) and clarifying somewhere in the article (Early Life?) that he identifies himself as English. It's a compromise that prevents the Welsh people with a slight nationalist POV from hijacking the lead, the English people with a slight nationalist POV that don't like the Welsh people with a slight nationalist POV from hijacking the lead, accurately and factually reflects reality and incorporates all the nuances of his British-English-Welsh mashup.Ha! (talk) 15:24, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

The multiple cited references link to articles which clarify how Bale, in separate interviews, describes himself as English. That's the whole reason the article uses the term English. People keep changing it back to British but without removing the old references, thus making them rather meaningless.

I wonder, what if the boot were on the other foot? Someone go and change Tom Jones to "British" and we'll see what happens there ThwartedEfforts (talk) 11:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Tom Jones wasn't born in England though. If he had been, I would definitely prefer that his article said British rather than English-born Welsh, especially if there was disagreement over what he should be called. Neil Kinnock was born in Wales and is called British his lead. Ha! (talk) 18:18, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Thing is, if he was born in England but spent his childhood in Wales, then NO ONE would deny he was Welsh. Its not the hospital you were born in; that affects who you are as a person - its the culture you are brought up with. And he was brought up with English culture, he has said this HIMSELF.

I don't understand the mindset of people, when David Lloyd George, Joe Calzaghe were both born in England, but brought up in Wales, so are both called Welsh. With no mention of their English birth in their respective articles - so why can't the same be done for a clearly English person?

If we are gonna call him British, please change the nationality of the British prime minister Lloyd George and Calzaghe...

The current description of Welsh born - British actor, is utterly ridiculas. Ben200 (talk) 10:49, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

There are only 2 actors born in England and raised in Wales (out of the first 1000 I searched). Arthur Malet (born England, raised Wales, moved to US) and Robin Nedwell (born England, raised Wales) are both called English actors. See below for more details Ha! (talk) 02:06, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I completely agree. It sounds bizarre. He should be called simply an English actor. At worst, the compromise should be Welsh-born English actor, the reverse of a similar situation with John Rhys-Davies. But I really can't see why people object to him being labelled English, yet don't follow the same guidelines with Calzaghe and others. But someone should definitely get rid of the Welsh-born British actor, it's embarassingly silly. And whoever keeps changing it back, please stop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.1.35 (talk) 22:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I also agree that the inclusion of "Welsh-born" sounds ridiculous. The information is redundant as his place of birth is listed on the right-hand side. If Bale considers himself English then surely that is the most important thing, together with his ancestry, and the article should therefore simply say "English actor".--80.5.197.141 (talk) 17:14, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

What's the problem with calling him a British actor? Have the Welsh started to deny they are part of Great Britain or something? - Mark 02:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

The fact that he was born in Wales doesn't even have to be included in the article, besides in a side bar. It's trivial. Consider a Chinese man born in Africa, then taken to China after a year. Is he African? Clearly not. The place of his birth has no impact on his nationality. I can't believe this is even being considered as a topic valid for discussion.  Aaron  ►  06:50, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. He was born to English parents and self-identifies as English. The fact he was born in Wales is irrelevant. Welsh is a British identity so saying 'Welsh-Born British person' is redundant. The problem with the 'British' identity is that it doesn't really say anything, it's an umbrella term that applies to anyone with a British passport, 'Britain' is a landmass that has three specific identities and cultures - which I shouldn't need to fill in there. Bale is English. He just happened to be born in Wales. So, he's either British, Welsh or English. Given that the general trend on Wikipedia is to specifically state in what part of the isles these people are from or self-relate to, then English would be prudent. It seems to me that the 'Welsh' are trying to somewhat hijack Bale as to one of their own. White43 (talk) 12:57, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps a vote is necessary in this case? It shouldn't even be necessary....but if someone would like to get the formalities on the way? White43 (talk) 13:08, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The people on the talk page that have expressed a preference so far are as follows: English only(13):Berks105, Krsont, LufbraDan, Gulf6832, ThwartedEfforts, Maelor, She'sGotSpies, 92.13.77.9, 79.77.36.190/79.77.1.35, Halbared, Ben200, 80.5.197.141, White43 British only(9):Nikachu, Trident13, DaveWFarthing, 89.211.58.139, Sticky Parkin, 88.109.1.50, Ha!, Mark Welsh-English(3):68.86.192.175, Londo06, Loganberry Welsh-British(2)::68.219.227.41, 86.150.188.24 Welsh only(1)::Richardeast Nothing(1)::86.0.190.37 Unknown(1)::Aaron (not Welsh though)

I ran a script that downloaded and searched the first thousand Google hits on Wikipedia for British actor/actress and checked if they were born in Wales then did the same for English actors then Welsh actors (but checking the Welsh ones to see which were born in England)

• There are 6 actors born in Wales and called "British actor/actress"; Gareth Jones (actor), Honeysuckle Weeks, Iain Rogerson, Joseph Morgan (actor), Steve Speirs, Stephen Evans. Honeysuckle Weeks (born Wales, brought up in England) is the most direct comparison to Bale.
• Apart from Christian Bale, there is only 1 other article where the actor is referred to as "English actor" when they were born in Wales; George Benson (actor). Benson seems obviously Welsh though (there's no info in his article other than that he was born in Wales) so perhaps this is a mistake. There are also 2 articles where the actor is born in England, raised in Wales and yet is called an English actor; Arthur Malet (born England, raised Wales, moved to US), Robin Nedwell (born England, raised Wales)
• There are 3 actors born in England and called "Welsh actor/actress"; John Orlando Parry, Paul Garnault, Ruth Madoc.

The stats above were limited to the first 1000 Google hits (although Google shows the figures for more it won't let you actually view the results). Lists, disambigs, days, user pages and films were discarded leaving 768 English actor pages, 550 British actor pages and 227 Welsh actor pages. Ha! (talk) 02:06, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for doing this. So only 6 actors from Wales are called British? I suspect that'd because the Welsh mafia haven't got around to them yet ;-) Joke. The problem with the other actors mentioned - is that simply not enough is probably known about them to identify as Welsh or English. Honeysuckle Weeks - her parents may have been Welsh, or they may have been English - and we don't know what she refers to herself either. My feeling is that several things are happening on Wiki in relation to 'British' people. When the entries were first created - 'British' was more often being used, but as the UK moved further and further into devolution, the specifics of peoples ethnicity/real nationality has obviously become more important. We now find we're sort of half-way between the two with smatterings of British, knocking around with either Scottish, Welsh or English. Yes, there are agendas from British Nationalists and English/Welsh/Scots nationalists. In this particular case, which is fairly unusual - we have a man clearly of English descent, raised in England and refers to himself as English. What's happening is that people are imposing a birth place to indicate a nationality/ethnicity. I don't think it gets much clearer than that. White43 (talk) 13:37, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Including a nationalist joke that pokes fun at the Welsh as part of your argument doesn't seem to be particularly wise. Ha! (talk) 20:21, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Deflection on your count doesn't help whatever you're trying to say either. I made a large comment - comment on that. White43 (talk) 00:07, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. Only six actors from (your word) Wales are called British; only one actor from Wales is called English (Bale). The ethnicity of Honeysuckle's parents is as known as the ethnicity of Bales's. I checked thousands of articles to find out some hard stats to shed some light on the matter, and you have a "feeling" (that has now somehow become a fact further down this discussion); I won't argue with a feeling. I'm not imposing birthplace. Ha! (talk) 02:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

THANK YOU! it seems at last common sense is finally prevailing. it should be English, without any shadow of doubt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.1.35 (talk) 15:44, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Entry for Calzaghe starts as follows : Joseph William Calzaghe CBE (born 23 March 1972 in London) is an undefeated Welsh former professional boxer.

Would this appease some people? If in the opening sentence it is stated where Bale was born? eg :

"Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974, Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales) is an English actor[2][3] whose film credits include American Psycho, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Prestige, 3:10 To Yuma, and the upcoming film Terminator Salvation, in which he will play the role of John Connor." White43 (talk) 13:46, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

That seems entirely acceptable. - Mark 13:54, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

not to be picky, but the Calzaghe article has been changed now (not be me) so that it conflicts with the change you just made. And it never said "born in London, England" anyway, it just said London. Personally I think it looks a bit silly having where he was born twice but that's down to taste.

I'm not particulary bothered either way, it states clear enough that he's English so I'm willing to appease. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.85.182 (talk) 18:50, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

why is is that after all this discussion and the consensus (after a vote) that Bale should be labelled as English, does somebody insist on changing it back to Welsh-born British actor without even entering the discussion. What concerns me more is that clearly this person has enough 'credibility' to edit semi-protected articles. Why is this tolerated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by D33te (talk • contribs) 06:32, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

the person who keeps changing it back is Prom3th3an, someone who has not once entered the discussion page, but still feels it okay to edit the article to his own ends. Apparently he's Australian as well, so he's more qualified than anyone from the British Isles on the subject on UK nationality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by D33te (talk • contribs) 06:40, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I have requested Promethean explain himself here. D33te - please sign your remarks. White43 (talk) 12:36, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I shall. It's a bit irritating that he makes changes and then we all have to ask him why he did it. He should be discussing and then making changes. Even more so since a consensus seemed to have been reached. D33te (talk) 14:30, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

There was no vote and I don't personally see much of a consensus, especially when I disregard what I view as invalid arguments (like your implication that because an editor is Australian their view is less qualified than someone from the British Isles, like you). Also, I think that criticising an editor's "credibility" when you're a new and single user account is a little ahead of the game. Ha! (talk) 20:21, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

just because he's had a Wikipedia account for longer than me, doesn't mean he's more entitled to make changes where there's been considerable debate. So I'd disregard what I view as an invalid argument that my view is less qualified because I'm supposedly a new user.

I used his nationality just to add to the point I made about him not entering the discussion once. Fair enough if he's not British and engaged in the discussion page, but since he didn't he MAY be ignorant to the fine details. And his nationality wasn't an argument for keeping the (correct) label of English, just for my objection to the bull-in-a-china-shop editing he made.

I didn't question his credibility, just alluded to the fact that as a more experienced user he should know better.

There was a vote. And a conclusion from the vote. You were counted in the vote. The vote has been removed, although it seems that Ha! put the vote up in the first place, so why deny it?

I'm English and so you'd probably say I lean towards the English label; but you're Welsh so it's not hard to see why you'd support such harsh editing of a 'controversial' topic like his nationality, when it's in your favour. It's probably quite obvious to most that the user editing from English to Welsh-born British after all of this debate, without so much as even saying why, is definitely in the wrong. I shall be checking for your input on the heated, much-debated, highly controversial Joe Calzaghe topic - where I've no doubt you'll argue for the article to be changed to English-born British boxer.

If I was to march into that article and just change it, without an explanation, would you defend that? D33te (talk) 21:34, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

As I'm not Welsh in any sense, any argument that has the form "you're Welsh, therefore" isn't correct. I don't agree that because someone is not British they need to have a discussion on a talk page before editing the nationality of a British person or that they might be ignorant of any finer details about nationality. I don't agree with the argument that Joe Calzaghe is a comparable precedent for what should be done at this article; see above for what I do believe though. The explanation was in the edit summary. Can you point me to a diff of the vote as I can't see it? Ha! (talk) 22:34, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

The Joe Calzaghe article is almost the mirror of this article. Born in England to a Welsh mother and raised in Wales - he's written as Welsh. Not English-born British or English-born Welsh. So I wonder why it is that Promethean keeps changing this article without discussion, we're nearly at a 3 revert. I'd rather not have exactly where Bale was born in the opening sentence, but I remove that and someone will start slapping Welsh back in there. Saying British isn't exact enough and a majority of articles have been changed to reflect that on Wiki, but this is the thing...when talking about the native population of Britain, either all articles should say English, Scots or Welsh or they say British. You can't have it both ways. Now in this case - Christian Bale was born of an English mother, he was raised in England and he refers to himself as an Englishman. Do we really need to go over and over this again? Yes he is British, but lets be specific. White43 (talk) 23:22, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

It's an unfair characterization of my reply above as going over and over something. I haven't gone over anything more than once on this page (except once very briefly as a pointer) and I don't think I've repeated points other people have made. Please check WP:3RR as we're nowhere near a violation of it. As far as I'm concerned Joe Calzaghe is a British boxer although, unlike with actors, I haven't done an analysis on how Wikipedia treats boxers so it's possible there's some subtlety I've missed. I don't see the Bale and Calzaghe articles as some sort of English/Welsh battleground where if the Welsh get Calzaghe, the English should get Bale (that's not your view but I mention it as it's one that's been expressed in relation to the Calzaghe angle). With respect to the appeal to consistency, see my points way above for other articles consistent with using British in this article. I haven't seen any evidence that Bales's mother, father and/or grandparents are English (i.e. the "he's of English ethnicity" belief is just that at the moment, a belief). I don't know about this "majority of articles changing from British to English/Welsh/Irish" thing; you detailed it previously as a feeling and now state it as a fact. I simply don't know if it's true or not. Ha! (talk) 02:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Ha! - I'm referring to this article, not your comments- that the point is going around and around. Your bullet points as indicated above have been very useful in determining peoples opinions on Bale. I have personally reverted Promethean twice now, who keeps changing Bale to Welsh-born British and his justification is : "English is certainly an inappropriate term in this case, conventional wisdom says British is the better word. Continual reversion will result in protection and or blocks." I'd like to know why 'English' is an inappropriate term and why conventional wisdom says 'British' is better. He then changed it a second time with justification : "Rv To conventional standard established on talk apge", what was established on this page was that the majority of people preferred 'English' according to your own analysis Ha!. So I've simply asked Promethean to explain himself - as pointed out by someone above - saying Welsh-born British Actor - implies he is Welsh - which is certainly not the case. I will always come back to what should be the focus - Bale considers himself English, not Welsh and even says he's not a real/pure 'Taffy'EDIT:(his words). His mother is from England, and he was raised there. White43 (talk) 09:13, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Let's be honest, you are Welsh, but that's

a) beside the point.

b) not one of the many arguments put forward by several users.

c) no reason why you can't have a valid opinion on it.

I was just trying to understand why you think Promethean is right, you keep focusing on me calling him Australian - when that's not the main issue here.

He doesn't need to say why he edits it because he's not British, but he does need to clarify why he repeatedly makes a change on a semi-protected article that's under debate.

I'm not Welsh, I (politely) ask you not to claim I am in an attempt to mitigate my opinions. There was no vote, I'll explain why in more detail on your talk page (it was removed, permalink here [7]) as it isn't particularly relevant to the discussion and this seems to be heading towards an unproductive argument rather than a useful discussion about this article. Ha! (talk) 02:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

D33t - no vote occurred on this page - Ha! Simply collated the data on this page that had been expressed by others(although I'm not sure why is disappeared and reappeared). Please avoid making personal attacks and stick to the point at hand. The query is directed at Promethean. So let's all keep cool heads and stick to the task at hand! White43 (talk) 09:13, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

well I'm happy with the current label of English. so I shan't be discussing what I see as a brilliant and factually correct article until aforementioned Promethean decides to change it back again. Probably going to be worse now since it's no longer protected.

I'll point out that as well as his mother being English, there's debate on the nationality of his father, who was born in South Africa but seems to have strong enough ties to England that he might be considered English - including his father being in the RAF. The family obviously moves around a lot, so a few of them will probably be born outside England but may still consider it home (a la Christian Bale).

and in anticipation of another "English is certainly an inappropriate term in this case, conventional wisdom says British is the better word", may I suggest that if this is the case then we should go through each and every celebrity's nationality and change from English to British? Alphabetically please.

I'll start with Atkinson, Rowan and we can move all the way through to Zeppelin, Led.

D33te (talk) 13:12, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to know why Promethean doesn't change the Joe Calzaghe article to say 'English-born British'(rather than Welsh), as it is the complete mirror of this article. Anyhoo, I'm asking for advice as I don't think he's following consensus.

This was taken from the Joe Calzaghe article which I think sums it up nicely why Bale should be referred to as English:

"Calzaghe should be referred to as a Welsh boxer because that is what he calls himself. Nationality is nothing to do with it - his nationality remains British, since nationality is a legal attribute and the legal description of the nationality of the peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is 'British'. People's description of themselves as Scottish, English or Welsh, on the other hand, is a description of which part of Britain they are from, and, more importantly, which culture they are part of.. But anyone who is Scottish, English or Welsh is also automatically 'British' because England Scotland and Wales are all part of the island of Britain, and anyone from Britain is 'British'. They also have the legal nationality of 'British' - which also extends to those from Northern Ireland. It is a matter of choice for British people choose to use their specific national identity (Welsh, Scottish etc.) ahead of their more general national identity (British). So 'Welsh' is a much more accurate and specific description of Joe's national and cultural identity than 'British' - although both are of course true. This is a particular issue for British people - and more particularly for the Scots and the Welsh- because cultural differences between the 3 countries of Britain - Scotland, England and Wales, have persisted over the centuries. Scotland and England were separate and often warring countries for 800 years before being united in an Act of Union only 300 years ago! Scotland still retains a separate legal system. The Welsh were militarily defeated by the English over 700 years ago but retain cultural differences and the Welsh language. So calling Joe a 'Welsh' boxer more accurately presents his homeland and his culture. It also at the same time represents his more general national identity as British since all Welsh are by definition British, AND presents his legal nationality (British) since all British people have British nationality! So calling him a 'British' boxer, whilst correct, is not so complete and leaves out a crucial part of his national and cultural identity. Whereas calling him Welsh tells us everything. SInce the function of the use of the word 'British', as it currently is in the body of the article, is to describe his national and cultural allegiance, 'Welsh' should be used instead of 'British'. But on the right where there is a specific label 'Nationality', 'British' should be used. davbeau."

So I'm still waiting for Promethean to explain himself. White43 (talk) 12:10, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Wether or not he refers to himself as English is m00t, He was born in Wales thus making him Welsh born for starters. That needs to be sybolised in the lead somewhere. Saying that he is a British actor does not cut it, nor does English (which is even more inappropriate). Welsh-born British was a good compromise at it symbolised that he was born in Wales but raised in Britain and had one of his parents of British decent.

"Christian Bale" "British actor": Google News search = 184 hits, Google search = 23,800 hits.

"Christian Bale" "Welsh Actor": Google News search = 100 hits, Google search = 6,490 hits.

"Christian Bale" "English Actor": Google News search = 58 hits, Google search = 5,670 hits

Google shows that he most comonly reffered to as a British actor but the place of birth needs to be pronounced in the lead, hence Welsh-born British. More over, Im not the only one who keeps changing it back and being from Australia I'm free from any POV / Bias that is more than likely existing in some of the people who live in the British Isles.   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 02:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Google to back up an argument? I don't think so. Have you considered the thought that maybe the reason he is referred to as so many different things is because people are misinformed by Wikipedia, thanks to people like you editing without discussion. And even if he were simply to be labelled British, there is absolutely no reason to put Welsh-born in there, since Wales is in Britain. If you feel the need to be that specific about exactly where he was born in Britain, then we should extend the same accuracy to his nationality - which is English. And saying English is inappropriate is slightly confusing, please explain why. Your arguments all seem very flawed, vague and a little skewed. D33te (talk) 09:44, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Where one is born does not have a direct bearing on ones nationality. If this is the case, then why aren't you correcting Joe Calzaghe? He was born in London, raised in Wales to a Welsh mother. You should also be correcting Daisy Donovan and Kim Cattrall while you're at it. I find it a little odd that you seem to not acknowledge the existence of England - by saying that Bale was raised in 'Britain' to British descent(and also saying English is inappropriate - why?). Britain of course is a landmass, a geographical landmass that comprises of three countries - England, Scotland and Wales. Calling someone British is correct in terms of what it says on a passport, but not in the least but specific about where in the UK they're from - hence the majority of articles on British people will refer to them as being English, Scottish and Welsh. There's no such thing as 'British' descent, it's an umbrella term relating to Scots, Welsh, English and Northern Irish.

Welsh-born British is a redundant term, as Wales is in Britain - it's like saying English-born English person. I could understand Welsh-born English, even though it is not necessary to include ones birth country in the lead sentence. Also, this sentence has a connotation that Bale is Welsh - which he isn't, but it's clear to see that that is your POV - you believe he is Welsh, but once again, birthplace does not denote nationality - Bale's mother is English, he was raised in England and calls himself English. Please see what Ha! says below regarding nationality in the UK.

Google is not a good source of reliable information in this case. Outside of the UK, the terms English and British are often interchanged - English is used when someone means British and vice versa, this even occurs within the UK.

Being Australian makes you no less NPOV than me. If anything, you don't seem to understand the complexities of nationality in the UK. Whereas us actually living here do. And you are the only person who keeps changing Bale, threatening bans and blocks and not explaining why. This is the first time you've aired your views. White43 (talk) 13:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Also, not wishing to labour the point of consistency, but I think it's worth mentioning that Shane MacGowan of the Pogues is considered an Irish actor (and is labelled as such on Wikipedia) yet he was born in England, spent years living in London and has an English accent. The reason he is called Irish is because his parents are both Irish and he spent a fair amount of his life living there. This is a weaker case for him being called Irish than for Bale being called Welsh, yet I doubt you would get far in trying to edit it.

The people claiming Bale is Welsh really should enter the discussions of other pages where the opposite has been applied. They've all been mentioned above, and there are probbaly scores more. Start with Mila Kunis, who is American

Disambig:Take care if linking "British"

I don't care what format the nationality stuff takes as long as British points to British people or United Kingdom and not British. I'm tired of disamming this page every other day. --User:Woohookitty ^{Diamming fool!} 10:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Manual of style, previous discussions, essay

See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)#Opening_paragraph

Nationality –

1. In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable. (Note: There is no consensus on how to define nationality for people from the United Kingdom, which encompasses constituent countries. For more information, please see the talk page and archives.)

2. Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability.

It appears the archives and talk pages it's referring to are

• Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)/2007-2008_archive:_British_nationality
• Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(people_from_the_United_Kingdom)

It's a long read but a lot of people have previously taken the time to thrash this issue out so it's worth reading. Ha! (talk) 00:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for this Ha!

3b. Where there is evidence of a person's preference as to how his or her nationality should be indicated, this should be respected and the evidence referred to in a note.

3c. Otherwise, if there is other sufficient, undisputed evidence of a person's nationality, such as birth and long residence in a country, nationality of that country may be stated.

3e. British nationals – The United Kingdom is comprised of four constituent countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Although persons from these countries hold British nationality, there is consensus that if usage note 3b or 3c applies, a person should be described as "English", "Northern Irish (or Irish)", "Scottish" or "Welsh", as the case may be. In other cases, the person should be described as "British".

It would seem to me that 3b and part of 3c applies for 3e. Bale refers to himself as English, and spent long residency in England.

It seems common sense that he should be classed as English, since he identifies as that and the basic facts of upbringing and parentage bears this out. His birth place is mentioned in the infobox which matches notable Welsh boxer Joe Calzaghe.[[[User:Halbared|Halbared]] (talk) 18:29, 22 February 2009 (UTC)]

Mediation

I have accepted the case made to WP:MEDCAB concerning the subject's nationality. I am currently researching the dispute and the references available. Bear with me for a little while as I am gathering information. In the meantime, I would like those involved in the dispute to cite me diffs that help to illustrate the conflict as well as to give me their opinion as to how the article should read. Trusilver 01:32, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Diffs:

http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Christian_Bale&diff=269522500&oldid=269385426

http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Christian_Bale&diff=269980454&oldid=269957194

http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Christian_Bale&diff=270311836&oldid=270144607

http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Christian_Bale&diff=270434063&oldid=270400421

http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Christian_Bale&diff=270865066&oldid=270734030

http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Christian_Bale&diff=271214472&oldid=271175817

http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Christian_Bale&diff=271926259&oldid=271844671

http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Christian_Bale&diff=271955258&oldid=271926259

As illustrated in the links above provided by User:Ha!, that nationality in the UK is simply not a case of labelling everyone 'British' despite this being the nationality on the passport. Britain comprises of three countries - England, Wales and Scotland and it has certainly been thrashed out that it is acceptable for British people to be labelled as English, Welsh or Scottish. In this case, Christian Bale was certainly born in Wales, but he does not identify as Welsh, as his mother and father were not Welsh. He only lived in a Wales for short number of years and was raised in England and identifies as an Englishman.

Certainly here : http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)/2007-2008_archive:_British_nationality

Nationality is discussed as :

: Usage notes: 3a. Wherever possible, provide evidence of a person's nationality in a note.
3b. Where there is evidence of a person's preference as to how his or her nationality should be indicated, this should be respected and the evidence referred to in a note.
3c. Otherwise, if there is other sufficient, undisputed evidence of a person's nationality, such as birth and long residence in a country, nationality of that country may be stated.
3d. If there is no clear evidence of a person's nationality (e.g., if a person was born in one country and lived and worked partly in that country and partly in another), no nationality should be stated. No assumption regarding a person's nationality based on his or her place of birth or residence should be made.
3e. British nationals – The United Kingdom is comprised of four constituent countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Although persons from these countries hold British nationality, there is consensus that if usage note 3b or 3c applies, a person should be described as "English", "Northern Irish (or Irish)", "Scottish" or "Welsh", as the case may be. In other cases, the person should be described as "British".
3f. Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability.

(3e) states that if (3b) or (3c) applies, then a person should be referred to as English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish. (3b)Christian Bale refers to himself as English, so should not be referred to as British. (3c) Long residence in England and has an English mother.

With all this in mind and Bale's acknowledgement that he is an 'Englishman', it would seem to me that he should remain as an 'English actor'. The article already shows in the infobox that he was born in Wales and the opening paragraph states 'Although born in Wales'. Perhaps a note should indicate that Bale calls himself English, rather than Welsh. White43 (talk) 21:18, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure that any dispute still exists here? Reading above I see that there was no real discussion about starting a mediation case and nobody else here seems to be interested in participating in this discussion. As I see it, the dispute is pretty cut and dry. The manual of style very clearly outlines the treatment of a subject's nationality, and I feel there would need to be a very compelling reason to overturn that... a reason that I have yet to see. Trusilver 16:27, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

There are alot of anonymous IP posters that tend to change it - but it was User:Prometheus who certainly changed it three times without consultation and seems somewhat reluctant to argue his case here. White43 (talk) 17:42, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

There was considerable debate when anonymous IPs changed it from English to something else because they would just edit it and then stay silent, leaving the few of us who were active to discuss the fallout. Now it's protected these anonymous IPs have no voice, and since they know that under mediation their views will probably be rendered unjustified they won't get involved.

I haven't previously contributed to the mediation because White43 has said what needs to be said. I will add that if we were to be consistent with the majority of Wikipedia then we should be specific with regards to nationality within the UK - and English would be the correct label for Bale.

Also, see the articles below for examples of people who were born and often spent a significant part of their life in one country but are classed as a different nationality:

Mila Kunis, Bruce Willis, John McEnroe, Rudyard Kipling, Kiefer Sutherland, Joe Calzaghe, Shane MacGowan

There are scores more which I could add later when I remember them, but I don't think it's necessary.

My only worry is that once the dispute is settled and eventually the article is unprotected this issue will rear its head again, and those who didn't want to particpate here now will re-emerge. D33te (talk) 22:14, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Anything is possible, but in the event of that scenario, you can at least say that you have attempted to go through the dispute resolution process and the other parties were simply unwilling to participate. Trusilver 00:07, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I am going to conclude the mediation at this time. The only clear other party to the dispute is User:Promethean, and he has specifically refused to participate in informal mediation.[8] Considering the circumstances, I think that you have two different routes that you can take this. I would personally suggest that you open a WP:RFC request on this article. The reason for this is that it doesn't require the input of User:Prometheus to create a consensus. The other possibility is the next step up the ladder: Take this over to formal mediation. Either way, continuing with the dispute resolution process shows that you are showing good faith in attempting to resolve the dispute. Do you have any questions? Trusilver 03:48, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your time - I'll probably open a RFC, but if after unprotection it all gets silly again - I'll probably opt for the formal mediation. White43 (talk) 09:48, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Wrong Version

{{editprotected}} From   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) with love :P

Thanks :) Martin^msgj 10:57, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Explain? How is the wrong version being protected ? 80.195.146.94 (talk) 16:23, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

White43 [9] you are aware of why it's the wrong version, so im not playing footsies with you.   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 21:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

What an odd response. Not very Wiki of you to keep making changes against Manual of Style, refuse mediation and then demand 'The Wrong Version'. If that's the difference between versions, I'm not responsible for that. Why do you persist in being awkward, rather than discussing things? White43 (talk) 13:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of Odd Responses, "Not very Wiki of you" is not very good english, I would have thought someone who preaches using the "proper terms" above would know this. I think you mean "Not very Wiki-like of you"   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 03:42, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Deflection..... White43 (talk) 13:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

This article should be moved to: Batman ....Judging that's his name and all....IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 09:15, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Settling for four years in Bournemouth and Henley-on-Thames, Bale attended Bournemouth School and Shiplake C of E Primary school respectively.

Christian Bale also attended Dolphin School in Hurst, Berkshire, sometime between 1980 and 1983, presumably whilst he was living in Henly and before he went to Shiplake, which you could only go to once you were 11 I think. I can't remember the exact year since I was very young, but I do remember Christian's arrival quite clearly because I was in his class. He arrived at Dolphin in the middle of the school year. The transition class teacher showed us one of his drawings, which was advanced for his age. You can verify this with the still active headmaster of the School Mrs Nancy Follett. Dolphin school has a website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.173.162.129 (talk) 09:58, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Screencaps

{{editprotected}} According to WP:FU, screen caps can only be used to illustrate articles about the characters depicted, not on actor/actress article pages, so I am going to remove them from this article. – ukexpat (talk) 22:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Dang it's protected. Admin, please delete the screencaps - from my reading of WP:FU, they should not be used in actor/actress articles. – ukexpat (talk) 22:08, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

 Done By my reading of WP:FU it would appear you are correct. I have removed the three screen-shot images. --CapitalR (talk) 07:40, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. – ukexpat (talk) 14:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

There's a discussion here about the fair use of two other images that I wasn't sure of. --CapitalR (talk) 20:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Welsh / English

I know this has been dicussed to ad nausiem but I forsee continual changing in the lead by both anonymous IP's and users alike. I think that if we just settled on "welsh-born english actor" rathor than "english actor" or "welsh actor" that the edit warring should subside and all parties will be satisfied (I hope). Thoughts?   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 02:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Why not just find an RS that says what the actor considers himself? With that in hand, anything else would be a moot point. rootology (C)(T) 13:12, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

ah, but you see, that would mean he would without any shadow of doubt be labelled English. And we can't have that can we?

Despite all the evidence and the articles in which he claims to be English, despite all the precedent set on both Wikipedia and elsewhere, certain people seem determined to mislead the majority of Wiki users into believing Bale is either Welsh or at least connected to Wales more than he really is.

  «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  seems to have now dropped completely the label of Welsh-born British actor, presumably because he came to his senses. Still pushing a different angle though, regardless of his refusal to get involved in any dispute process.

I'll say what has also been explained countless times before:

Those of you who now want to label Bale as anything but English should have been involved in the dispute when the issue was raised, instead of simply waiting for the protection to be removed and creeping back in with the hope that those who DID get involved will have lost interest. Really is like banging your head against a brick wall. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.3.153 (talk) 13:48, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I added the two cites back in February of this year, both of which explained the situation with absolute clarity. Or so I thought. The quarrelling afterwards did help me appreciate the lunacy and fanaticism that permeates every page here, and when you consider that users such as Promethean are basically Google-brained kids treating the site as an MMORPG with their character on a quest for administrator privileges and internet megastardom, contributing to a debate over some random actor's nationality seems so mind meltingly pointless. I think those cites were the last things I did. ThwartedEfforts (talk) 22:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Sources

This (I'm sure that she would but she knows that I'm English and I like my pint of beer.) and this (I was born in Wales but I'm not Welsh - I'm English.) seem pretty clear to me. Can we close this debate now (again)? – ukexpat (talk) 14:04, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, in the first article you gave he references his English identity three times. I really don't know of any nationality other than English which would be subjected to such horrendous entry requirements. What does the poor man have to do to prove he's English? Dance around in Stonehenge singing Jerusalem?

With Ireland, any hint of somebody being Irish and it's instantly changed. If somebody were to call themselves Irish (Liam Neeson, born in the UK and lives in London) then the article would undoubtedly reflect this. Can't see any reason for the Welsh label other than underlying agendas from nationalists. D33te (talk) 16:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

John McEnroe was born in West Germany because that was where his parents lived at the time. I don't think anyone has ever tried to suggest he was actually German? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.149.97.85 (talk) 16:05, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually Liam Neeson was born in Northern Ireland, self-identifies as Irish and resides in New York. White43 (talk) 12:29, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

So he was born in the UK, and I'm almost certain that, at least until recently, he lived in London with his wife Natasha Richardson. Perhaps he has/had two homes, as many rich people do. Either way, what makes him Irish is his heritage and his self-identificaiton. But for some reason when you apply the same to Bale, people will have you believe that where you're born has more weight than it really does. Double standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.3.153 (talk) 17:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

You show a simplistic knowledge of the whole Ireland/Northern Ireland/UK situation if you think that being born in Northern Ireland automatically makes one British whether they like it or not? It also makes one automatically an Irish citizen should one choose to take it up. Do you know for a fact that Liam Neeson chose to do the former and not the latter? Or are you "almost certain" about this too?

The only thing I'm 'almost certain' about is where he lives/lived, which is fairly irrelevant. My point was that he was born in the UK but self-identifies as Irish, and is therefore considered Irish. Your point also has some relevance, since you could ask "Does being born in Wales automatically make one Welsh whether they like it or not?" Clearly Bale considers himself English, this should be enough, but isn't for some people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.31.180 (talk) 05:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Well part of the problem is that there is nothing formal that identifies one as "English" - British citizenship gives you the right to apply for a British passport but that applies to the English, Welsh, Scots and Norther Irish. Anyway, I think we have laid this one to rest, at least for now. – ukexpat (talk) 16:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Vegetarian?

I asked this on an old version of the Talk page a while back but it seems to have been deleted: The article currently states that Bale has been a vegetarian since age six, however, the commentary on the "American Psycho" dvd repeatedly refers to the strict workout routine and diet of "almost nothing but chicken breast" he maintained to prepare for the role. I've seen interviews where he discusses the same. Based on that, it seems the article should be amended. Anyone have any other info on his vegetarianism?Nsfreeman (talk) 14:08, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

GQ article today has him saying he has gone "in and out of the vegetarianism." Nsfreeman (talk) 19:40, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Bay Watch

Have Christian Bale played in Bay Watch? 83.108.225.137 (talk) 14:53, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Reassessment

Any particular reason the article is currently C-class? The lead does need to be rewritten. I'll see what I can do. Viriditas (talk) 10:03, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as he is not born to Welsh parents, nor does he identifies as Welsh…

..."Welsh born" is completely unnecessary to have in the lead. It is covered in the early life/info box sections. And seeing as the original outcome of this discussion was clearly in breach of NPOV, as it was generally revolving around welsh nationalists demanding Welsh be added to the lead, also makes it invalid. Not a single person bought up Wikipedia guidelines.--Frank Fontaine (talk) 21:54, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

See the archives - this was compromise wording to satisfy the "he's Welsh" and the "he's English" camps. – ukexpat (talk) 15:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

And that's a breach of NPOV. He's not Welsh, so his birth place has no relevance in the opener. It sounds just like nationalist point scoring.

His birth place is covered in the info box and early life section, and this is sufficient to say the least.--Frank Fontaine (talk) 15:22, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Life is full of compromises, some we like and some we don't. I am not taking a view either way but in the scheme of things this is pretty minor. – ukexpat (talk) 15:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

There should be no "Compromise" just because some people demand it. This is an encyclopedia. There are rules. Bale is not Welsh. He has never identified as Welsh or Welsh/English. It's a no brainer.--Frank Fontaine (talk) 18:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Welsh Contributions to society are few and far between, so it’s only natural they try and steal bale from the English, they must be desperate (:--79.79.201.10 (talk) 10:03, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Please see WP:NAMES for more info as to why "Welsh born" Does not need to be in the lead.--Frank Fontaine (talk) 13:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

"Welsh born"

Why exactly is this in the lead paragraph? He identifies as English, neither of his parents were Welsh, were he was born is noted in the infobox. --Hawklin (talk) 11:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Why would any Welsh person try to claim Bale as there’s? The mans an idiot. Oh, and please see past discussions on this. I some what agree with you but you will need people coming here and agreeing with you first.--Frank Fontaine (talk) 11:15, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

OK ease up on the insults, justified or not, and let's concentrate in the article. Just read through the archives for this talk page. The current wording, which I will admit is a little clumsy, is a compromise to satisfy those who insist that as he was born in Wales he is de facto Welsh and those who say that he self-identifies as English and is therefore English. – ukexpat (talk) 13:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

It is really silly though. You can tell where he was born from the infobox AND the very first section 'Early life.' --Bloodloss 20:08, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

In an interview with an US television station discussing T4, Bale described himself as "British". This denonym also covers his being English and/or Welsh, therefore I changed it to that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.231.207 (talk) 16:02, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Why are English people getting so hung up with the 'British' description? He's British, therefore it should say British. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.32.108.59 (talk) 19:18, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

how does one correct the paragraph spacing?

I notice in the section of bale's career, because of an image, the paragraph spacing is inordinately elongated. How does one correct that? (Or is this a mistake of only my screen?) Wireless Fidelity Class One 12:19, 2 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wifione (talk • contribs)

Graham Ivers

If he does it again, please report it to WP:AIV or to my talk page. I'll be in and out all day. causa sui× 22:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

The Dark Knight II

It just seems strange to call the movie in the filmography The Dark Knight II since The Dark Knight itself was the 2 of the current series. I think Batman 3 would make more sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.27.39.106 (talk) 07:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Untitled Dark Knight Sequel

There aren't any sources that confirm the announcement of a sequel to The Dark Knight. If so, please add them. --Mapfn (talk) 22:58, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Christian is Welsh

Pembrokeshire is a county in Wales, UK. Wales is not in England, both England and Wales are in the United Kingdom. It says Christian is English. He is Welsh.

Oh no here we go again - please read the sources and the talk page archive. We have debated this ad nauseam. He identifies himself as English, therefore he is English, end of story. – ukexpat (talk) 00:54, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Agree. Under our policies, and the various laws that prevail, there is no such thing as Welsh nationality; it's British, unless he strongly associates with being Welsh, which he doesn't. This is a dead duck, and as dead ducks go, it's as dead as a 4000-year old fossil of something that might once have been a duck, but is no longer, something that might one have borne some resemblance to a duck, and nobody cares. Leave it. Rodhullandemu 01:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Using that logic then shouldn't we list his nationality as British? I've no opinion of whether we should put Welsh or English but please don't confuse English and British as being one and the same.Aprhys (talk) 21:28, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

English is perfectly acceptable to use. Changing it is pointless. But he is certainly not Welsh.--Misortie (talk) 23:28, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the argument is about whether although Christian Bale was born in Wales he has stated that he considers himself English. My point is that if rodhullandemu is saying that there is no welsh nationality then there also cant be such thing as an english nationality because British is the overriding "unit" for want of a better word.Aprhys (talk) 15:02, 2 January 2010 (UTC) Incidently I believe if he wants to call himself English that's fine.Aprhys (talk) 15:04, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

• Claps for Rodhullandemu*. And werz teh sig.--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 10:53, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

And funny how it's almost never the Welsh themselves who bring this up.--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 12:56, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Alleged assault

If the police decided to take No Further Action against Bale then he would not have been charged and therefore there would be no charges to be dismissed. The Police cannot dismiss charges in the UK - they can either, on CPS advice, not charge and take No Further Action. Charges are not "dismissed" in the UK, I assume that's american terminology. Having checked the history then it was the CPS who decided to take no further action not the Police and he certaintly was not charged and therefore charges were not dismissed. - Cwlcymro

Shouldn't the assault charges at least be mentioned on the page? Especially since there is a long discussion about his recorded rant later on. His behavior in the past is discussed here, but only in a positive way. I think to not mention the incident at all is disingenious and gives the reader an incomplete view of his history. -Elowynd —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elowynd (talk • contribs) 22:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

why is the arrest for assault on his mother and a sister deemed not worthy of recording? This is about his character; and as the others have pointed out, relevant. He denied the assaults. At no time did the press indicate that this could have been a malicious complaint. Bale did not counter that this was a malicious complaint. He was arrested in July 2008, following the complainants contacting the police. The alleged assaults wsre said to have taken place at the Dorchester Hotel, in London. Folowing arrest, english police procedures are to obtain finger prints, photograph, and a dna sample, as well as a recorded interview. The CPS decided there was insufficient evidence to secure a conviction at court. I feel that all verifiable information offered about persons should be on wiki, to show non biase and the quality of wiki. There appears to me to be a serious inconsistency in policy on what is accepted with regard to some actors, and what is not. an explanation would be appreciated.189.200.1.1 (talk) 02:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC) After further enquiries, i have found that because wiki is open to everyone, this also includes person or persons working on behalf of stars and celebrities. their job is to search the internet and remove, where possible, negative information about the celebrity that pays them. the worst case of abuse was by pro and anti george w. bush persons. please, lets have a moderator, or adjudicator, or whatever the title is, to rule on this assault. The circumstances were verified and reported by the BBC. So it needs recording permanently, so that errand persons working for stars with fragile personalities cannot remove information that does not flatter their paymasters.189.200.1.1 (talk) 19:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

There is no one on Wikipedia who "rules on" issues like this. Provided such content meets the criteria of WP:BLP and is not given undue weight, it should probably be in the article if that is the consensus among editors. – ukexpat (talk) 19:26, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Batman & Robin

It was reported that Bale had previously auditioned for the role of Robin in Batman Returns (1992) and later Batman Forever (1995), but lost out to Chris O'Donnell.

Robin did not appear in batman forever, he was in batman forever and batman and robin. played by chris o donnell in both —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.135.53 (talk) 09:02, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

sorry i meant robin wasnt in batman returns, he was in batman forever and batman and robin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.135.53 (talk) 09:03, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I moved this to a new section as you mistakingly added it to the thread above^^.--Misortie (talk) 09:37, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Robin was in the screenplay of Batman Returns, however. Therefore, there would have been auditions for the part. -xris

I apologize if I'm writing this in the wrong place, but I couldn't find anywhere else to add it. Bale is getting ready to film the next and final installation of Nolan's Batman called "The Dark Knight Rises." Can this be added to the bottom of his filmography? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.215.253.111 (talk) 17:49, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

English, Welsh or British?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Ok so Bale was born in Wales, but considers himself English (see quote from source - "I was born in Wales but I'm not Welsh - I'm English").

I was thinking about this and wonder if it's really accurate to say he's English in the article, after all, just because he says he's English, doesn't mean he actually is. Saying something about yourself doesn't make it a fact. I like to think I'm a genius, but the evidence suggests otherwise and if I was notable enough as to have a wikipedia article on me it would be wrong to say I was a genius and use the quote from myself to back it up. (A good example of this in action with the appropriate level of accuracy would maybe be the article on Johnny Borrell)

Would it not be a compromise to refer to him as British? After all, both Welsh and English people are also British. Ideas? Coolug (talk) 09:09, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

The specific guidelines on UK nationality’s clearly state that they should be described as they prefer. (Mostly, this is much more stronger outside of England). Also, this has been discussed to the death. Please refer to previous archives.--Frank Fontaine (talk) 09:44, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

You don't know what he prefers. You only know that he has stated his view on his being born in Wales - 'British' wasn't mentioned. Ask him what his nationality is; tell him you want to know his legal nationality, not his cultural identification (which is a different thing entirely). Ask the State he was born in which State he is a citizen of and there will be and can be only one answer. He is neither Welsh nor English. He is a British national. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.17.13.55 (talk) 00:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

ok, hadn't looked at the archived discussions. Just giving my 2 cents :) cya Coolug (talk) 13:47, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

I'd say English, Welsh and British. Irvine22 (talk) 22:09, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I would say "Actor" (And maybe air-head) --Frank Fontaine (talk) 22:19, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

You've obviously never met him. Irvine22 (talk) 22:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, shouldn't believe everything you read. --Frank Fontaine (talk) 22:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Or hear :) ▒ ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ ▒ _―Œ ^{♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣} 11:32, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Most British newspapers refer to Christian Bale as being 'Welsh-born', including the BBC News web site. Describing Bale as a 'Welsh-born English actor' would add clarity to the introduction. While he would not describe himself as being 'Welsh-born', this is factual, and many people describe him as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.191.50 (talk) 15:41, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Adding XXXX-Born is actually not recommendatory on this encyclopaedia. It's best left out. --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 05:17, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

He self-identifies as English so he is English. Q.E.D. – ukexpat (talk) 14:59, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Self-identification is not legal or official nationality. It is therefore an opinion and/or a wish and a subjective concept, not a fact. The right of nationality is recognised by a State. Wikipedia's policy on this is nonsensical, since it does not treat any other State the way it treats the United Kingdom's nationality.

Flogging dead horses is irrelevant. Wikipedia, like all encyclopaedias, should reflect verifiable facts. Reflecting the fact of a person's opinion is not the same as reflecting nationality. Nationality is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of State recognition. Wikipedia, in this article on this actor as well as many other public figures, does not recognise the legal nationality of citizens of the United Kingdom.

Remember that nationality is about the right of residence, the right to leave and return, and so forth. For other nations Wikipedia's policy is in line with this. For the UK it is not. The situation is bizarre, the horse is not dead, it is an gigantic rotting elephant in the Wikipedian living room, and no attempt to tell people to shut up about it will change that fact.

Wikipedia needs to face up to reality: Christian Bale's citizenship is recognised by the United Kingdom. Neither Wales nor England have any means of conferring, removing, recognising or ignoring nationality.

Grow up Wikipedians and get your facts straight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.17.13.55 (talk) 00:41, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

• I suggest you look first at WP:UKNATIONALS. However much you want him to be Welsh, he has disclaimed this. And in the British Nationality Acts, there is no such thing as Welsh nationality as a legal concept, and devolution does not affect that situation. Unless and until the law changes, we are stuck with it. Everyone has something to bring to the debate, but ignorance isn't recommended; silence and understanding are, however. Rodhullandemu 00:46, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Steroids?

I am not suggesting this for the article, this is merely for discussion purposes. Though there is the subject of his incredible physical transformation, of packing on 100lbs in six months, which I have to say is impossible without the use of steroids. He once claimed he was tempted to use steroids during preparation for "American psycho" and that was a slightly smaller achievement compared to that of his "Batman" physique, so the suspicion of him using steroids is highly logical. Compare this transformation to say that of Taylor Lautner's, granted they have an entirely different body types, but still 30lbs in a year compared to 100 in six months, simply shows the contrast between a natural transformation and a steroid aided one. And even Lautner himself has been under the suspicion of using steroids, so it seems to me that the evidence is overwhelming. Signed The-do-right-man 22:03 (Talk) 03 July 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by The-do-right-man (talk • contribs) 21:02, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Lead

The lead needs to be re-written from a more neutral POV. I can do this if no one objects. ~DC ^{We Can Work It Out} 02:23, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Reads like PR. Go ahead :) --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 22:08, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it is fairly neutral. Is there any specific part that you noted? Nymf _hideliho! 22:10, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking the last few sentences. Particularly since the EW references are 6 and 10 years old. ~DC ^{We Can Work It Out} 04:42, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Second that. The EW and Guardian quotes are obvious POV statements. Bale is a very good actor, and it's a little embarrassing to read stuff like that. - Artoasis (talk) 07:17, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Merging the awards and films section

The table for the award section looks sloppy considering there is no rowspan. I propose we merge them, similar to Leonardo DiCaprio or Will Smith. This way, whoever is adding the awards do not have to constantly re-add the year, the award name, the nominated work, and the outcome of the award. This also saves a lot of space. I did beforehand but the work was reverted due to another editor believing we have to reach a consensus first. If no one replies to this in three days, I'm merging it. AhnSoonKyung (talk) 00:54, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

As I have told you several times, rowspan breaks the sorting. See WP:ACTOR#Filmography tables for an explanation why. It is also a major WP:ACCESS issue, as explained here. Also, the hardcoded styles that you keep implementing over and over again is a clear violation of WP:Deviations.

As for having two tables, I would argue that that's also an accessibility issue. Either way, articles (e.g. Jake Gyllenhaal#Awards, Amanda Bynes#Awards, Natalie Portman#Awards etc) favor both styles, and there is no real rationale for combining them into the filmography table, except for "I prefer them that way." Consensus is for the current style, so unless it really is a space issue (in which case I propose that you split the awards table off into a separate article), I suggest you leave it alone. Nymf _hideliho! 02:51, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

I know adding rowspan breaks the sorting, which is why I propose we just merge it in with the filmography. I didn't say we add rowspan with the award section, no. By merging them, it'll be easier to add the award with the nominated work. If we can shorten the length of the article, then why not do it? AhnSoonKyung (talk) 03:18, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Rowspan anywhere breaks the sorting, including in the year column. You may be shortening the article by merging the awards table, but you are making the filmography table extraneously long. As I said, if space is an issue, you should split off the awards table into a new article. Nymf _hideliho! 13:16, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

One table for both categories would work out best because it shows what films really stick out in the chosen actors filmography. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.95.215.203 (talk) 04:21, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Not only is that not a real rationale, but it is also POV and WP:UNDUE. Nymf _hideliho! 13:16, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Seeing how another editor agreed with me, shouldn't we work out a compromise? You can say there's a consensus on keeping it that way, but who else is arguing for it except you while the third party agrees with merging it? AhnSoonKyung (talk) 14:57, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

An IP with one other edit is not really another editor agreering with you, but anyway... I would say that splitting it into another article is a fairly reasonable compromise, don't you think? Nymf _hideliho! 15:50, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Also, re: the accessibility part of lumping awards into the filmography table, see the comparison I made here and here. Both at 172%. The first one completely unreadable, whereas the second one is neat and perfectly readable. Nymf _hideliho! 19:14, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

How is it not readable? I think that's in the eyes of the reader. In my opinion, it's easier to tell which awards were given for which work compare to a list of awards again and again. And IP or not, if they still contribute they can still be consider an editor. It's encourage to have an username, but not enforced. But k, we can split it into its own section. AhnSoonKyung (talk) 05:40, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

You asked "who else is arguing for it except you" - well, I would. I agree with User:Nymf. Nymf suggested splitting the awards table into its own article, and I would agree with that as the awards table is quite large and exhaustive. I would strongly oppose merging the film and awards tables into one. Don't assume that other editors don't agree with a particular opinion just because an editor such as Nymf is commenting alone. Sometimes it takes more than a matter of hours for other editors to become aware of a discussion. You're also right that IPs can edit and don't have to register. If they choose not to register, they have to understand that some editors may not give their opinions any particular weight, especially when they appear out of the blue and then disappear just as quickly. Rossrs (talk) 07:22, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Rossrs said most of what I was going to say. I'd just add that the argument against using rowspan (for reasons of accessibility) has been made countless times.  Chickenmonkey  07:44, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Thankyou for voicing your opinions now. AhnSoonKyung (talk) 03:11, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I just stumbled across this discussion. I don't usually edit articles such as these but the format used for List of awards and nominations received by Meryl Streep looks great and seems handy for both editors and readers. Cheers. Timbouctou 02:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I disagree that the Meryl Streep awards page is great. I think it's very difficult to read unless you particularly want to read about her achievements award by award. If you want to see the various nominations or awards she may have received for one role, the only option is to scan through each section to see if it appears. It looks tidy, but it's not versatile. On the other hand Bale's awards table in his article is one big chunky table and it's not appealing to the eye, but at least it's useful. It can be sorted by date, by award, by film title - I think it's much more usable. I'd much rather the Streep awards page be updated per the Bale single table format, than the Bale awards be updated per Streep. Rossrs (talk) 14:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Bobox112, 28 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Please remove reference to Christian Bale being in Treasure Planet at the end of the first paragraph. Jim Hawkins was voiced by Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Bale is not even in the movie. see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133240/

Bobox112 (talk) 03:02, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Already done Looks like someone already got it. Qwyrxian (talk) 15:38, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

When it suits

I'm pretty sure that Christian Bale has refuted both nationalities at one time. One moment he's English, the next he is Welsh.

A more accurate description may well be a "Welsh-born, English actor", as most stars born in another country usually state. e.g. Mel Gibson: Australian-born, American actor.

As for Empire of the Sun, are the children singing a Chinese song or a Welsh song at the beginning of the movie? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.243.41.18 (talk) 05:59, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually Christian Bale has stated he is English, he was only born in Wales. There are plenty of people on here who are refered to SOLELY as Welsh or other nationalities, who were actually born in England, should all those be refered to as English or English born? Voucherman (talk) 11:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

He's never stated he's Welsh. He's English, End of story and stop flogging this dead horse. Manuel of style states XXXX-Born does not belong in the lead, especially concerning a non-sovereign state like Wales that didn't even have a devolved parliament system when Bale was born. Welsh is a personal Identity, not a legal nationality recognised by international laws. Bale was never made famous or notable by being in Wales/being born in Wales, so it doesn't belong in the lead! --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 12:25, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Easy answer - call him "British", which encompasses both. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.75.246.231 (talk) 04:16, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

He's not Welsh so there's no need. This is a total non-starter no-issue, he's identified as English and just English which is backed up in a source from his very own words. British would be an acceptable way to describe someone like Bale, but as he clearly shows a preference to English we keep it at that. And if he didn't have a preference, English would still be acceptable. --Τασουλα (Almira) (talk) 10:00, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I'll fix it--it should be British. WP:OPENPARAGRAPH says that we include nationalities, not ethnicities in the opening line. English is not a nationality, therefore it doesn't belong there. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:56, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Actually, you're going against consensus, and second, you should read WP:UKNATIONALS - English is a nationality, and so is British. You may as well go and change everyone whose described as Welsh/English/Scottish/NIrish to "British" if you're going to use that logic. But again, you may as well and go argue that England isn't a country. And if you read the article on the English People, it clearly states they are not just an Ethnicity but also a Nation - You are getting confused with citizenship which is set-in-stone British. Also, most importantly, Bale is English is a long standing consensus on this article and is backed up by a source, from his own words. --Τασουλα (Almira) (talk) 13:25, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

This has been dealt with several times, and does not need to be brought up again.

• /Archive 1#Christian_Bale_is_English
• /Archive 1#Christian_Bale_is_English_2
• /Archive 1#Welsh_and_English.3F
• /Archive 1#British.2FWelsh.2FEnglish_in_the_lead
• /Archive 1#Mediation
• /Archive 1#Welsh_.2F_English
• /Archive 1#Seeing_as_he_is_not_born_to_Welsh_parents.2C_nor_does_he_identifies_as_Welsh.E2.80.A6
• /Archive 1#.22Welsh_born.22
• /Archive 1#Christian_is_Welsh
• /Archive 1#English.2C_Welsh_or_British.3F

Nymf _hideliho! 13:56, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

"The Dark Knight Rises" isn't on the list of film credits?

Is there a reason why "The Dark Knight Rises" hasn't been added yet to the list of film credits? I'm new to Wikipedia and apologize if this question has already been answered elsewhere. Ajarehi (talk) 01:23, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm not really sure, but it looks like it's still in "pre-production" which means it's not officially a "done deal" yet. Actors, directors, producers, etc may plan to make a film and then something unforseen happens, so it could be that it won't be added until principal production officially begins. Of course others may have another explanation, but that's my guess. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 01:29, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

That makes sense, thanks! Ajarehi (talk) 21:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Leelee91, 1 May 2011

Please change where it says he was only nominated for an Academy award for his supporting role in The Fighter because he actually won the award.

Leelee91 (talk) 23:50, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Already done Seems to already be updated; am I missing it in some part? Qwyrxian (talk) 07:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Merger Proposal

Back in Februrary, someone added a merger proposal to say that List of awards and award nominations received by Christian Bale should be merged into this article, but never actually started a discussion. I'd like to do so now, and say that that info definitely needs to be merged into here. Or, alternatively, it all needs to be removed from here, and moved over there. Either one. But having 2 duplicated lists is unnecessary, and likely to lead to the problem of the two lists coming out of sync. The only reason to have them separate is if there isn't "room" for the info here, but since it looks like everything at the list page is also listed here, I don't see any reason to spin it out. 07:04, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Everything in the List of... article was already in this one. As such, I have just redirected that article to here--we should not have 2 articles. If people think the award section here is too long, we can move all of it over to the other article; in that case, we should have no list here. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:27, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Piper Perabo was NOT in The Prestige.

Obviously someone has confused her with Rebecca Hall, who was in The Prestige and played Bale's character's wife. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.154.50.138 (talk) 16:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Her article and the film article all clearly indicate she is in the film. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:56, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Domestic Violence

I'm pretty sure that I read a piece on Bale bashing his mother or sister. Important enough to be mentioned, if his yelling at some crew member is — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.135.162 (talk) 05:20, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Please verify this with a reliable source as soon as possible; if you don't have one, I'll remove even this conversation, as WP:BLP applies to talk pages and thus we can't leave an unsubstantiated report of this type to remain here indefinitely. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:38, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Here's a source on the arrest ThtrWrtr (talk) 00:32, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I see, you added a source. Well, that's probably enough for it to stay here, although it's probably not something we can add to the article--simply being arrested for something isn't enough to include in the article. Since that was several years ago, with no follow-up info, it seems likely that the charges were dropped or not pursued or whatever process they used, so the unsubstantiated allegations should remain out. Thanks for finding that, Patchreynolds. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:45, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

As this article and others detail, the charges were ultimately dropped. However, an arrest reported to this extent in the press, regardless of the disposition of the charges, would, I think, merit inclusion in his bio. This is especially true as the incident seems to be entangled with prolonged familial alienation that continues to draw notice three years after his arrest. WP, after all, isn't a court that expunges one's record if charges are dropped. The arrest itself is a notable event in his life (albeit, I would argue, a minor one). ThtrWrtr (talk) 02:19, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

This information was in the article, from the time it happened until it was removed December 26, 2009. The reason given for the removal was WP:BLP concerns, with this edit summary "'alleged', 'denied', and 'dismissed for lack of evidence' = not something we have in a BLP, also 'controversy' sections are no good". It seemed like good reasoning, then, and it seems like good reasoning, now.

There are also WP:UNDUE concerns. If this information was to be readded to the article, there would be no need for it to be as detailed as it was, previously. A minor mention would suffice.  Chickenmonkey  03:01, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Right. That's all I'm suggesting. Some along the lines of "Bales was arrested in London on May 8, 2002 on charges of physical assault against his sister and mother. The charges were later dropped." ThtrWrtr (talk) 03:28, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Including the information at all is a clear violation of WP:UNDUE. Including the fact in an encyclopedic entry implies some substance to the charges. Just because something is verifiable doesn't mean it goes into the article--we must provide only that information that is important enough to fit the overall "story" of the page. We further must be extra careful on living people. Now, if Bale had gone to court, fought the charges, and been declared innocent, then, perhaps we might include the info because it is an important part of his life. But these charges didn't get anywhere near that (as far as I knwo). Furthermore, if the edit summary Chickenmonkey mentions above is correct, the charges weren't "dropped", they were "dismissed for lack of evidence", which is radically different. We can bring this up on WP:BLPN, but I'm fairly confident that including this is improper. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not well versed in BLP policy, but I don't think it's an issue to say he was arrested for such and such but charges were dropped. Hot Stop talk-contribs 03:47, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

It's a BLP problem because the charges were completely dismissed. That means there was no legal validity to the charges (I'm not saying "actual" validity, but no legal validity). This means that there is no reason to raise it in conjunction with a biography about him. As far as we know, this is one event that happened one night, that went away and never reappeared. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:54, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

No. It does not mean there was no legal validity to the charges; it means the arrest never went forward into a more complete finding of fact, a trial, and a rendering of a verdict. Having charges dropped may often mean authorities don't think they can sustain or win the charges (e.g, due a unsavory witness), not that there's nothing vaild to them. (Countless athletes on WP have each and every drunk driving arrest noted, regardless of the final disposition of the charges themselves.) Also they are now part of the family story because three years later major new sources are writing of the family's estrangement and making that night part of the series of incident that brought the Bales' to this pass. But again, that's all beside the correct parsing of WP:UNDUE that talk adroitly centers us on. The only ways this policy comes to bear would be if we took what appears to be a minor even in his life and blew it terribly out of proportion. We're not. Simply mentioning that it occurred, Bales protested his innocence, and the charges were later dropped doesn't seem like much of a weight for My. Bales to bear. ThtrWrtr (talk) 04:07, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Do you have any examples of reliable sources that now mention this in the context of current family problems? If this is an ongoing issue, then it may be worth mentioning. I still hold that if there was a single arrest that went away immediately, any mention is undue; I'm willing to bring it up on WP:BLPN though, if need be. However, before I do so, we need to know exactly how important this event was. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:37, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

May as well bring it to BLPN. Hot Stop talk-contribs 16:45, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Statement about declining "Rules of Atraction" is un sourced.

This line appears in the 1999-2001 section:

"On April 14, 2000, Lions Gate Films released American Psycho in theatres. Bale was later approached to make a cameo appearance in another Bret Easton Ellis adaptation, The Rules of Attraction, a film loosely connected to American Psycho, but he declined out of loyalty to Harron's vision of Bateman, which he felt could not be properly expressed by anyone else."

The bit about how he felt the role "could not be properly expressed by anyone else" is unsupported in the linked citation. All he says there is "I'm very loyal to Mary Harron - she wrote and Directed 'American Psycho'. I felt that her Bateman - our Bateman - was in his entirety in the first film." Perhaps we could change the line to:

"On April 14, 2000, Lions Gate Films released American Psycho in theatres. Bale was later approached to make a cameo appearance in another Bret Easton Ellis adaptation, The Rules of Attraction, a film loosely connected to American Psycho, but he declined because he believed the character 'was in his entirety in the first film.' " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.29.85 (talk) 02:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from AnonymousAnimus, 18 July 2011

I saw that there was no article to Mr. Bale's upcoming film 13 Flowers of Nanjing. I then made the article. If you could update that part of his Filmography, I would be thrilled. And there would be a link that people could go to. Thanks. AnonymousAnimus (talk) 18:10, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Done Film is now linked. FYI I believe you should be auto-confirmed shortly here if not already. Jnorton7558 (talk) 00:08, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Darkroom81, 19 August 2011

Please, change the career part of the article "Bale made his film debut as Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich of Russia" for "Bale made his film debut as Jum-Jum / Benke in Vladimir Grammatikov's fantasy film Mio in the Land of Faraway (Swedish: Mio min Mio; Russian: Мио, мой Мио - Mio, moy Mio)" A 1986 film is an adaptation of the Astrid Lindgren novel "Mio, my Mio" (1954). For Christian Bale it was the first appearance in a feature film.

Sources: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Mio_in_the_Land_of_Faraway http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093543/

Darkroom81 (talk) 11:04, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Mio in the Land of Faraway is a 1987 film based on the article here. Anastasia: The Mystery of Anna may have just been a TV Film but still his film debut then. --Jnorton7558 (talk) 17:49, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 20 October 2011

He's Welsh

81.155.79.169 (talk) 19:19, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. --Jnorton7558 (talk) 00:40, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

No, he's a Catonkey. Mkay, actually he's being rather specific - and I say go read the old discussions. He's not Welsh and it's never being changed to that. That's all you need to know. Well read the old discussions as to why though. --Nutthida (talk) 00:43, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

There are two inaccuracies on the main page:

1.) He is Welsh born and has admitted to not caring whether people refer to him as English or Welsh. 2.) He was in fact a British school boy in the movie "Empire of the Sun" and can be heard singing a Welsh song in the opening scenes (something I doubt an English only school boy would be doing).183.5.14.147 (talk) 14:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

1) No, he has specifically said he is English. This is sourced. He obviously doesn't mind being called Welsh because he was born there, but he considers himself English. Further more, he was born to English parents and was not bought up in Wales for most of his childhood. Jus Soli or anything like it does not apply to Wales as it is not sovereign state.

2) That has absolutely no baring on his nationality based on what he did in a film. I speak Thai but I'm not Thai. --Nutthida (talk) 20:53, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

3) I would just like to point out that his mother is in fact welsh and his father is south african. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.232.230 (talk) 00:28, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

The stuff about his father is all from his obituary. It clearly states he was South-African born, and primarily raised in England. He wasn't even a South African citizen by the looks of things. It's unclear what he self-identified as, and it's hardly relevant. Also, about his mother, do you have a source for this? And whether his mother is Welsh or not - that doesn't mean Christian is.--Nutthida (talk) 01:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Also, "Discussions often lead to previous arguments, especially about whether Christian Bale is English, Welsh, or British, being restated. Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting about that topic. Restarting a debate that has already been settled may be taken as "asking the other parent", disruptive and even tendentious, unless consensus has changed or is likely to change." you really need to read these archives before commenting on this subject. And as for your comment I removed due to it violating talk page guidelines, please do not comment on contributor but content. I can easily counter such an insult with my own, but I wont. --Nutthida (talk) 21:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

About "liking" Metal Gear Solid

I think this should be removed. If anyone has actually seen the clip, you can CLEARLY tell he's just humouring the interviewer. The way he just responds to the question "what do you play" with "uh, that", and then he even goes on to say "no, I've devoted my time to more constructive things", which is obviously saying he sees video games as frivolous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.5.181.238 (talk) 22:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like a piece of Trivia that shouldn't even be in the article. --Nutthida (talk) 21:27, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Removed it, and the thing about liking Farley. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:19, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 December 2011

It should read, Welsh actor and not English as stated.

Podsdad (talk) 14:51, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Podsdad (talk) 14:51, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.. Further more, this has been discussed many time and it's been decided Christian Bale is not Welsh. Please refer to previous discussions. --Nutthida (talk) 15:17, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

The article says that christian bale "complemented" robert deniro. Should be "complimented" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.98.101.203 (talk) 23:27, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Fixed.  Chickenmonkey  23:59, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Unreliable source for a BLP

• This source seems completely unreliable. The site is operated by Talk Talk, a phone company, which also has a good marketing punchline (Unlimited broadband and phone packages with ground breaking FREE Home safe online protection for your family from TalkTalk.) on the pages where it holds such biographies. Is there some compelling reason we've kept this source within the article? I could be missing some important point which the regulars might know of. Wifione ^Message 08:13, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

It's remove it. Doesn't seem overly reliable and I can't stand Talk-Talk (there know for the bullshit) ^_^ --Nutthida (talk) 11:55, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Alright; removing the link and the material that was being supported by it. Wifione ^Message 18:43, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 February 2012

surely if he was born in Wales his nationality should be either welsh or british. but not english. He may have english parents but his nationality is welsh!

89.233.152.254 (talk) 19:08, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Not done. See the discussions above. Nymf _hideliho! 19:19, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Also, consult the archives. --Nutthida (talk) 19:20, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

New Book "Christian Bale: The Inside Story of the Darkest Batman" coming out and should be added to the link list and reference list

Christian Bale: The Inside Story of the Darkest Batman Harrison Cheung (Author), Nicola Pittam (Author)

Description of book from Amazon

The darkest Batman is unmasked.

During the London press junket for The Dark Knight in the summer of 2008, Christian Bale was infamously accused of assaulting his mother and sister at the five-star Dorchester Hotel. Six months later, a recording of Bale’s rant on the set of Terminator Salvation was leaked, and the star’s anger began to define him.

But beyond his notorious temper, Bale, an Academy Award-winning actor for his role in The Fighter, is known for his ability to physically transform himself for roles in American Psycho, The Machinist, and as one of Hollywood’s most revered and bankable characters—Batman.

In Christian Bale: The Inside Story of the Darkest Batman, Bale’s former publicist and assistant Harrison Cheung—his real-life Alfred—shares an inside look into the little-known personal life of the intensely private and reclusive actor. In the first biography of the Batman star, Cheung, who lived and worked with Christian and his father for 10 years, shares firsthand accounts of the Bales’ familial dysfunction, Christian’s morbid fascinations and dark humor, and his extreme dedication to his craft.

Aware that Bale hated his traditional publicity duties, Cheung launched an extensive Internet marketing campaign for the actor, built the first official actor website for him, and cultivated the Baleheads, an online fan community that was used to garner editorial coverage and ultimately help Bale secure the role of the Caped Crusader.

Written with veteran Hollywood and entertainment reporter Nicola Pittam, Christian Bale: The Inside Story of the Darkest Batman uncovers Bale’s transformation from shy, English child actor to Internet sensation to Hollywood bad boy.

http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Bale-Inside-Darkest-Batman/dp/1936661640/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

blog review http://beanstalkbiz.blogspot.com/2012/04/behind-scenes-chez-bale-could-indulged.html "Still, those same disdainful “Baleheads” – who, if message boards and forum are to be believed, may assume the book is a poison-pen letter. Some “fans” (none of whom have read the book) have gone so far as to campaign against it. But they may be surprised by Cheung’s book. While not exactly an affectionate portrait, it is factual, often funny and quite credible." — Preceding unsigned comment added by BRDogTX (talk • contribs) 15:06, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Wales is not England

Christian Bale was born in Wales, making him a Welsh actor.

To be an English actor, as the article claims, he would have needed to have been born in England. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.178.233.196 (talk) 10:55, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Who says? His parents are English, and he wasn't raised in Wales, so why should he be obliged to identify himself as "Welsh" just because he was born there? Anyway, I'm wondering why doesn't the article doesn't just refer to him as "British"? --Lobo512 (talk) 11:22, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Because he self-identifies as English. Nymf _hideliho! 11:32, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Do we have a reliable source for this? Currently it is just sourced to IMDB. And in that quote, he merely seems to be making a distinction that he is more English than Welsh. That doesn't mean that he doesn't primarily consider himself "British". I'd be surprised if he doesn't prefer "British", since he does have links to two separate countries within Britain. --Lobo512 (talk) 11:46, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I am sure there is a source in the 15 or so previous discussions + RFC and mediation, and whatnot. Nymf _hideliho! 11:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Some of the previous discussions.

• /Archive 1#Christian_Bale_is_English

I was born in Wales but don't self identify as Welsh its not compulsory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.168.107 (talk) 22:29, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

• /Archive 1#Christian_Bale_is_English_2
• /Archive 1#Welsh_and_English.3F
• /Archive 1#British.2FWelsh.2FEnglish_in_the_lead
• /Archive 1#Mediation
• /Archive 1#Welsh_.2F_English
• /Archive 1#Seeing_as_he_is_not_born_to_Welsh_parents.2C_nor_does_he_identifies_as_Welsh.E2.80.A6
• /Archive 1#.22Welsh_born.22
• /Archive 1#Christian_is_Welsh
• /Archive 1#English.2C_Welsh_or_British.3F

Nymf _hideliho! 12:00, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

• None of those discussions convince me that it wouldn't be easier to refer to him as "British"...We don't have a convincing quote that says he exclusively thinks of himself as "English". "British" would stop people constantly arguing over this, as it acknowledges his ties to both England and Wales. If he hasn't said that he dislikes the term, it wouldn't be inappropriate to call him that. --Lobo512 (talk) 12:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

• We have a quote from Bale where he self-identifies specifically as English, which is why we call him that. It's perfectly in line with the rationale in WP:UKNATIONALS. Unless you can find one where he self-identifies as British, this discussion is a flogged horse and will lead nowhere. Nymf _hideliho! 12:45, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

About referring to him as "British" rather than "English" - trust me if he was referred to as British the arguments would not stop, really they wouldn't. >_> --Nutthida (talk) 11:58, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

The Welsh brigade keep bringing up this hypocritical argument, no doubt they wont want to change any of the 'Welsh' entries on Wikipedia who were actually born in England — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.5.68.70 (talk) 00:33, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

And that's exactly why we don't pay much attention to posts like the first one, especially when they use titles such as "Wales is not in England" Which is simply not being implied here at all - (Well some people like to think it is with that principality garbage) and also does not seem to want to engage in sensible discussion in line with the rules here. By default, a lot of nationalists are like that, to give you the other side of the coin you wont find any "Self-identified" Welsh-Nationalist editors who are established coming here to argue this. AT the end of the day, Bale shows a clear preference for "English" rather than Welsh or British. I've actually been accused of having a personal agenda on this because of my stance, even though I have only ever given reasoning per WP:UKNATIONALS, the source where Bale makes his preference and the fact Jos Soli doesn't apply to a non-sovereign country like Wales. Another side of the coin - there's an equally annoying argument on the Joe Calzaghe article. I'm sleepy. --Nutthida (talk) 01:40, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Is there a similar argument on the Kiefer Sutherland board? No, because he is and always will be Canadian, being born in London does not change that. Just as all those using common sense confirm that Christian Bale is English and due to it being a fact, it is not up for further debate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcus28 (talk • contribs) 20:45, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Thankfully the disruption caused by Welsh-Nationalists/their sympathisers/guideline ignorer's/general point of view pushers has since died away once they realised nothing was going to change.--85.211.127.48 (talk) 09:41, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

The Welsh brigade - Explain? clearly "written" by an english person, heaven forbid anyone should be allowed to call themselves WELSH — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhoose (talk • contribs) 01:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't think they were claiming anyone couldn't call themselves Welsh if they were born in England. Anyway - this is a stupid discussion, the original post is over a year old and by the judge of this talk-page in general, the stupid discussion about Christian Bale's "Nationality" is long over by the looks of things. I couldn't care what the guy is called, I would prefer just "Actor" in the lead anyway. I'm a fan of Christian Bale, and I started a thread (at the bottom of the page) here, and that's why it's on my watch list. But these 'discussions' really ARE annoying to watch unfold, slowly.--Kawaii-Soft (talk) 06:46, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 July 2012

Please edit the page to state that Christian Bale is a Welsh actor or a British actor. Christian Bale was born in Wales which makes him a Welsh person - it is patently false to describe a man born in Wales as an 'English' anything. We all know Wikipaedia takes a lot of abuse for innacurate entries, but with falsehoods such as stating Christian Bale is 'English' one can hardly expect otherwise.

Please correct this assertion and state that Bale is either a Welsh person or a British person - he is not an English person.

John Henrys Hammer (talk) 21:36, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Not done: See the archives on here. We have been over this 20 times already. Nymf _hideliho! 21:55, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Christian Bale

See top of talk page before starting discussions such as these, thank you.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Christain Bale was born in Wales, therefore he cannot be English — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.0.185.27 (talk) 21:04, 31 July 2012 (UTC) Using that logic, the current King of Thailand is American (His excellency, I have to say that as my partner is Thai ^_^)...to answer your question on a more serious point - Oh wait I did. He isn't Welsh, end of story, just how Joe Calzaghe is unquestionable Welsh, but he was born in England. --Τασουλα (talk) 21:10, 31 July 2012 (UTC) He doesnt reside in England either. At beat he should be a Beitish Actor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.125.22.34 (talk) 20:39, 2 September 2012 (UTC) What the heck does residence have to do with someone's identity/nationality? Sean Connery & Anthony Hopkins have not resided in their native countries for decades, should we start calling them British instead of Scottish & Welsh? Bale describes himself as English so he IS English. And besides, English is way more specific than the generic "British" Label and unless someone identifies as just British then using either English OR British is fine. We use English for Bale because that is what he has described himself as. English people are by default British as well, using either is fine. He's not Welsh though. Never was. --Τασουλα (talk) 23:05, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Creation of Christian Bale filmography

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

It appears that Nymf (talk · contribs) has some issues with the creation of Christian Bale filmography. To avoid causing further disruption to the article, let's discuss this among users. Basically, Nymf feels as if Bale doesn't have enough films to warrant a separate article and claims that the article, created by Tomica (talk · contribs), is a "clear WP:INDISCRIMINATE violation". I removed the filmography table from this article, replacing it with a see also link, in which Nymf reverted, saying "No need to split off. It's not that huge.". Tomica then reverted saying "It has more than 30 films so can it's own filmography." Nymf, in return, reverted once again, saying "No policy for that. Your article is a clear WP:INDISCRIMINATE violation." I hope I explained the situation well enough; this is my first RFC I have ever filed. I would like to note that are over 300 filmography articles, so this isn't a new type of article. Zac  14:05, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

I explained the problems I have with it at my talk page when Tomica messaged me. Nymf _hideliho! 14:41, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Good for you, but it's not your decision to make, that's what this RFC is for. Zac  14:50, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I see no problem with creating a separate article for any type of actor/actress/singer's filmography no matter how many they have done. The point of the filmography page is to give a more indepth account of the person's films including box office information, etc. This is not normally found on the person's main page. I personally do not think that just cause someone made 30 or 100 films it shouldn't matter as long as the page does what it is meant to. The page looks absolutely fine to me and meets the standards to be a supporting page alone so I do not see the problem with it. ^_^ Swifty*^talk 15:18, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

I do not really see a good reason to have split the filmography into its own article, as this article is not extremely large and the filmography is not taking up an inordinate amount of space in this article (in fact the "awards" table is larger). With that said, now that it has been split into its own article, Christian Bale filmography seems to be one of the better sourced and written filmography articles, so I see no good reason to delete it. Remove the filmography table from this article--as it is unnecessary, now--and just leave a summary (including {{Main}}) in its place.  Chickenmonkey  16:39, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

• I support this idea. Now that the article is there, there is no reason to delete it. Also, 30 films is well enough for a filmography article. Additionally, the article is written and structured at a very high quality, for what i saw. Amazing work. — ΛΧΣ21™ 17:13, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

If there were serious problems with the article it would of been picked up on by more than one user. The only other alternative I could see is merging (sources, bits ect). --Τασουλα (talk) 22:44, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

• Nymf raised the issue of the article's formatting. It may not be perfect, but the strength of the article's content seems reasonable for the article to stay, and strong enough to split from the biography. The accessibility can be addressed. Regarding WP:NOTSTATSBOOK, the article does seem to put the budget/income figures into context with discussion of commercial success of films. Best, —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 23:53, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

If someone takes issue with something and can't/wont do anything to try and address said issues...I see. I think Bree Olson...sorry Nymf acted a little rash. It can be fixed. The page has its uses. To be honest though, reading the top sections and then seeing the relatively small filmography table doesn't look all too good. At least he's described as English at the beginning though! (in-article joke and a reference to Nymf's user-page with the Bree Olson bit, by the way). --Τασουλα (talk) 00:10, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

(Two cents from the list creator) Well, at the beginning I thought its better not to comment, but now I think I should. First of all thanks to everybody who supports the list, I really put a lot of energy in creating it. Like my fellow Status said there are like more than 300 filmographies, I don't see issue with this one. Christian Bale is a well known actor and has starred in more than 40 films (actually 43!) and obviously can attain his own filmography. I don't agree that the table is small either, it's enough. Why is this filmography different than the table in his bio article? It is more ordered, referenced, and contains how much budget has been used for the film and how much the film grossed, something that people can't find in his bio. And for the lead it's still not over yer, the later two paragraphs are yet to be c/e (thanks to WP!). My opinion is that Nymf was a lot of rash with his comments that I assume there is a little bit of WP:OWN involved in them. Regards! — Tomica (talk) 10:32, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

No WP:OWN here (that is a label that I do not appreciate, Tomica), just legitimate concerns. WP PENGUIN summarized my position well. When and if the article stays, I will have to work on the accessibility. The issue of the statistics can be raised on a later date, possibly at WP:ACTOR. Nymf _hideliho! 13:43, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, I didn't appreciate your comments too, but after them that was my conclusion. And I don't see issue with the statistics, can you point me where do u find that? Btw, for the God sake what is your problem with the article? (apart the accessibility and according to you statistics) We already pointed there are 333 more... how can't I not find this WP:OWN?— Tomica (talk) 14:01, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

I think you are taking this a little too personal. Stay calm, and keep in mind that not everyone is going to agree with you on Wikipedia. Have you seen me raise any other issues? Nymf _hideliho! 14:35, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

As long as I take this personal, you take this... let's not repeat myself. I am calm btw. Per your comments you want the filmography gone (I guess with all the 300 others!). You can't just randomly raise some non-sense small issues because you are not fan of filmographies and expect people eagerly to agree with you. The filmography is actually good formatted according to one other that is FL on Wikipedia.— Tomica (talk) 16:34, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

I was hoping not to go into this here, but see WP:Deviations for why there are accessibility problems with your tables. It is not nonsense, but a real issue to ensure that there is a site wide standard in place, that is readable and accessible for everyone, no matter the platform. As I said, when and if the article stays, I will work on this. It took us years and a lot bickering to come to the conclusion that we have at Wikipedia:FILMOGRAPHY. This is a good example of how it may turn out when users roam free. Nymf _hideliho! 16:59, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but award and filmography table where you also have grosses and budget is something different. Btw, the Gossip Girl table also fails WP:TABLES per the bulky colors it contains. Instead of arguing here how the article should be deleted, you could have came on my talk page asking how we can improve it together. As like this I found it "I will delete it now, so I can create it on my own later". — Tomica (talk) 17:06, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

No, they are not different (in the sense that one needs to and the other does not need to follow a standard), and I am not arguing that it should be deleted. Have I stated that anywhere on here? I have repeatedly explained how I intend to improve on it when and if it stays. I have also stated that I intend to raise the issue of box office statistics and the likes in the proper venue at a later date. Nymf _hideliho! 17:17, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Wow, I had completely overlooked WP:FILMOGRAPHY. Thank you, Nymf, for bringing this up. Yes, I have noticed that this list had not been exactly formatted according to the example shown in the WP link. This will have to be carefully addressed. Although I do not think the box office numbers are indiscriminate, they do go against the guideline in WP:FILMOGRAPHY and I do think table guidelines should be followed to prevent poor accessibility concerns. Can anyone help me out here? What to do? —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 19:22, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

• I am very unsure what you are saying is wrong with the table, Nymf. Tomica did the same format as I on Jennifer Lopez filmography, which was promoted to a FL this year. And speaking of WP:FILMOGRAPHY, it clearly states: "Project style recommendations", and on top of that, this is a separate article although, and not just a section of an article, so it doesn't even apply here. I assume it contains such little information in it because it's a table in an article and not a whole article itself. Additionally, the article isn't a part of this WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers and is a part of WikiProject Film, so it is not "bound" by the former's projects guidelines. Zac  21:04, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

• Tomica filled me in to what the issue with the numbers are. He just didn't add in the code to make them sort correctly. Why is this such an issue? I can't believe this whole thing is over that little thing... Articles are a work in progress, this isn't a damn FL nomination. Zac  21:51, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

• The article has strong potential now that it has been created, as per a few editors above. Nymf will raise the stats issue later and has offered to improve the list if it stays. As far as I see, there is no problem. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 22:13, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

• Also, I must add that Nymf, for someone who never mentioned the article being deleted, you've said an awful lot of "if it stays". I think we're done here. Zac  22:39, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Howl's Moving Castle

Could his role in this be mentioned briefly in the lead? I feel it would be good to because it's probably his most unusual role, and his only anime-related role to date (though I think in the grand scope of all his movies, it's pretty small) --Kawaii-Soft (talk) 11:54, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• What reliable source might you have? It'll be good to list them out here. Wifione ^Message 12:15, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Source for what? He was definitaely in the film, if that's what you mean.--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 14:35, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Sources that tell us that the information is worth putting in the lead. The depth of coverage is a good indicator of the same. Wifione ^Message 15:46, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

No, I agree it's only a minor role, I just thought it would be worth a shot. No one remembers Bale for his "different" kind-of-roles /: --Kawaii-Soft (talk) 19:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

christian bale is a welsh-english

although he is english But Being Born In Wales Is A Very Important Part Of His Identity So He Must Be Written As Welsh-english Actor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.197.221 (talk) 19:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Being born in Wales does not make you Welsh. --Τασουλα (talk) 23:43, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Bradley Wiggins was born in Belgium, Emma Watson was born in France, Cliff Richard was born in India, Eddie Izzard was born in Yemen, Simon Shaw was born in Kenya, Boris Johnsons was born in the United States, Dominc Monaghan was born in Germany...hope you see what I'm getting at...--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 20:17, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Joe Calzaghe was born in England... is he English?..."hell" and "no". Want something more shocking? The current King of Thailand was born in the USA...(Technically Boris is British-American in nationality when defined by citizenship) SO yep, loud and clear.--Τασουλα (talk) 20:43, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Actress Isla Fisher was born in Oman

Singer Rod Stewart who always played up his 'Scottishness' was born in London.

Nicole Kidman was born in Hawaii.

"Australian" singers Glenn Shorrock (Little River Band), Olivia Newton-John, Graham Russell (Air Supply), Jimmy Barnes (Cold Chisel), John Farnham were born in Britain.

Montalban (talk) 09:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Rod Stewart has Scottish family members, his father being Scottish, goes for anyone born in one place but raised somewhere else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.91.140 (talk) 00:35, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

And once upon-a-time we were all basic, single-cellular organism. If science is your thing. --Τασουλα (talk) 11:03, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 March 2013

Christian Bale's age for the film Empire of the sun is wrong he was 13 when he filmed the role, The film was released in 1987 and he was born in 1974. in an interview he gives he states he was 13. see link for interview, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI5zfQ0y3Wo. Dml0577 (talk) 00:11, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Question: Are you talking about the image caption? The image is from February 1988, from the Swedish premiere of Empire of the Sun. At that point, Bale was 14.  — daranz [ t ] 01:58, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I am referring to the start on the article that reads Bale first caught the public eye at the age of 14, when he was cast in the starring role of Steven Spielberg's Empire of the Sun (1987). Bale was 13 when he was cast on the role not 14 as stated.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dml0577 (talk • contribs) 21:08, 1 March 2013

Done. My apologies, it's done now. Thanks.  — daranz [ t ] 21:20, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 March 2013

Hi,

there is an error in this article. Christian Bale if NOT English he is Welsh. It states quite clearly in the article that he is from Haverford west in Pembrokeshire, which is of course in Wales NOT England.

Thanks.

Iain Flockhart

Iaindvc (talk) 15:51, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

 Not done - It is not an error. Bale was born in Wales, but identifies as English. This has been discussed numerous times. <IP Watcher> --85.210.107.21 (talk) 16:37, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Bale is Welsh not English.

Christian Bale was born in Haverfordwest which is in Wales, but the page states that he is an English actor. I believe this should be changed to Welsh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rthepowerd (talk • contribs) 20:54, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Did you not read what has been agreed above? Yes he was born in Wales, but he identifies as English. Another example of this would be with Mila Kunis where the article states she is American, but also says she was born in 'Ukrainian SSR, Soviet Union', that doesn't mean shes a Ukrainian Actress because that is not what she identifies as, she identifies as an American Actress. Bale is the same, he identifies as English.CH7i5 (talk) 14:05, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Birthplace

Christian Bale was not actually born in Pembrokeshire as it did not exist at the time of his birth. He was actually born in Dyfed which existed between 1974 and 1996. 92.6.170.166 (talk) 12:45, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

WRONG. Dyfed was created on 1st April 1974, after Bale was born in January 1974. He was born in Pembrokeshire. The last edit by CH7i5 needs to be undone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martin344 (talk • contribs) 09:02, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 June 2013

The latest change by CH7i5 should be reversed. Dyfed was created in April 1974 after Bale was born in January 1974, therefore he was born in Pembrokeshire, not Dyfed. Martin344 (talk) 09:14, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

I typically do not use a WP article to establish a source but this one seems appropriate. Dyfed did not exist until April 1974, AFTER Christian was born, so  Done. Jguy _Talk^Done 00:54, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Since Christian Bale was born in Wales, wouldn't he be considered Welsh, as opposed to English, as mentioned early in the page? I don't want to make the change myself as I'm not sure this is correct, but I wanted to make the potential issue known in case it needs to be changed. (Still new to editing on Wikepedia, so please excuse any mistakes made here.)

dbarak (talk) 17:05, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

See the numerous discussions above.--ukexpat (talk) 17:12, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

How about "Welsh-born English?" It actually sounds better. He's born in Wales but identifies as an Englishman in the same way Chris Jericho the wrestler was born in the U.S. state of New York but identifies himself as Canadian due to him being raised there most of his life. Hitmonchan (talk) 15:47, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Someone's birth place should not be emphasized in the lede unless it is relevant to the person's notability. See WP:OPENPARA. Nymf _{talk to me} 15:49, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be confusing for readers to read the introduction of the article and then read the infobox about the actor and see that one states that Bale is English while the infobox denotes that he is, in fact, Welsh? The powers-that-be on Wikipedia should comment on this more often, otherwise people would make edits and then get warned or banned because they didn't "follow the rules." Hitmonchan (talk) 15:57, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

The ibox doesn't do that, it just says he was born in Wales.--ukexpat (talk) 16:08, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 July 2013

he is welsh, not english 92.13.83.117 (talk) 12:01, 31 July 2013 (UTC) donna

Facepalm - not done, see the ad nauseam discussions above and in the archives.--ukexpat (talk) 13:58, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Surprise surprise the IP is located in Wales. I remember this argument going back years, very boring - very old. 85.210.100.39 (talk) 20:51, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Nationality Change

Please change 'an English actor' to 'a Welsh actor' because he was born in Wales and is clearly Welsh not English. 86.164.35.51 (talk) 17:06, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Not done. See the archives for why. Nymf (talk) 17:34, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

There are now a total of eight of these requests on the current talk page! (If I counted correctly in my post-work, tired state!) --Somchai Sun (talk) 19:40, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 December 2013

Christian Bale is a Welsh actor, not an English actor. Pbater (talk) 22:14, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

 Not done Please consult previous discussions on this "issue". Somchai Sun (talk) 23:13, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Infobox image

So, this user insists on replacing the infobox image. Problem is, the new image is full of artifacts, it is blown out and the colors are distorted. What does everyone else think? Nymf (talk) 14:06, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Undeniably it is a fairly poor quality photograph. It's functional, but I don't see any strong reason to replace the older one. --Somchai Sun (talk) 15:01, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 February 2014

{{Edit semi-protected||answered=yes} Readd into the "Early life" section that Bale grew up in Portugal. It was previously mentioned but this edit removed it. Additional source to complement the Metro one, if needed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/starsandstories/8271873/Christian-Bale-Yes-it-is-the-same-guy.html. 92.40.249.46 (talk) 09:57, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Note: This article is no longer Semi-Protected, so you can make these edits yourself, but please cite reliable sources to back up your edit, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 17:18, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

English actor

It says he's an English actor, even though he was born and grew up in Wales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.251.133.26 (talk) 16:29, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Just checked, he didn't grow up in Wales (left at a very young age according to sources) and he identifies as English. So there is no error. --Somchai Sun (talk) 19:07, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

He is Welsh I see 197.130.151.217 (talk) 14:30, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

If all you go by is his birthplace and draw your conclusions from that, it's no wonder you're so wrong. Read the article properly. --Somchai Sun (talk) 14:40, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

For future reference - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muo7zu3airQ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.186.211.201 (talk) 11:25, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

British

Mr Bail can say what he likes, he can't truthfuly say that the nationality is English on his passport he can only truthfully say that it says British (assuming he hasn't taken citsenship of another country).

Therefore he is British, of Welsh birth and English decent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Littlefixer (talk • contribs) 23:36, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Community consensus is firmly against labelling everyone from the UK as "British" in the lede due to the major problems it would cause in regards to nationalists - and someone's personal identity is important, can I mention also that England, Wales and Scotland are nations in their own right? And he isn't just of "English" descent he IS English. His Welsh (Wales) birth is completely unimportant and irrelevant to that. Basically what we have now are Wales-based IP's changing it to "British" because they know "Welsh" will not be accepted - it's basically nationalist point-scoring. --Somchai Sun (talk) 23:15, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

It may be the case that people from 'Wales-based IP's [are] changing it to "British" because they know "Welsh" will not be accepted', but the fact that one argument in favour of a course of action is invalid does not invalidate that course of action. 'British' is by far the most elegant solution to describe the nationality of someone with birthplace and/or heritage in/from multiple parts of the UK. This is not a matter of 'labelling everyone from the UK as "British"', but of labeling this particular Brit as British. Whatever the 'community consensus', plenty of figures from across the UK (and plenty who are unambiguously English) are referred to, correctly, as British. See for example https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/James_Meek_%28author%29 https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Emma_Thompson and https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Imelda_Staunton . That Bale has described himself as English (as opposed to Welsh) in no way contradicts describing him as British, which I have changed because it offers by far the most elegant (and least contentious) solution to this problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChrisHutchinson (talk • contribs) 10:19, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

I don't object to him being described as British, but using his place of birth in deciding what he should be described as really isn't acceptable for the lead (the lead is a summarisation of the main article, and his birthplace has little notability) - he has made it clear he is not Welsh, just like my father is not a Cypriot -and also, English is not unambiguous in this case! But again, no objection to him being described as British in principal - I have however reverted you based on the fact that you made an edit which went against a very long term consensus. Somchai Sun (talk) 14:01, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

People have been flogging this dead horse for years now. He's English. Period. Refer to the 20 archived discussions as to why. Nymf (talk) 15:57, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Actor's BIrthplace

It states in the article that Bale is an English actor when, he was born in Wales. He is, therefore a Welsh actor and not English! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.226.90.6 (talk) 15:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

 Not done Please see the numerous discussions on Christian Bale's nationality. --Somchai Sun (talk) 15:10, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Selected Filmography

Why!? What is the need to have a "selected filmography?" I haven't seen any other actors with selected filmographies, there's already a paragraph at the beginning of the article which outlines some of his most famous roles. Plus, its confusing; when one scrolls down the page to check an actors filmography you expect to either see the table of films and/or television, or (when this table would be inconveniently large) a link to a separate article devoted to the filmography. So why would there be a table just repeating what has already been said? It is easy to, on first glance, confuse this as his entire filmography and that there are films missing.

I restate that there is no need for the "selected filmography", request that the table be removed, and hope that the article can return to the usual format for actor's filmographies.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Superdupercranman (talk • contribs) 03:20, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 July 2014

Wanted to add a new picture.

Az123rv (talk) 16:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

It would be useful to know which picture you would like to add :P--Somchai Sun (talk) 17:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit request

In one place in the article, it says he has two sisters. Under Personal life, it says three. Which is it?

Also, a cite to WENN/IMDb under Personal life is not in any sense an RS. It's an anonymously claimed gossip item and not even from the original tabloid that claimed it. --209.122.114.237 (talk) 21:58, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Edit request

That "selected filmography" is pure POV. Who "selected" the films? What are the objective criteria, since otherwise it's subjective? And if there's a filmography "main article," that link is all that should be there. --209.122.114.237 (talk) 22:01, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Indeed...such a section could only ever be someone's own POV. It has been removed by User:Nymf. Thanks. Somchai Sun (talk) 11:02, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

nationality

Christian Bale is a Welsh actor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.157.103.109 (talk) 04:03, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Proof?--Somchai Sun (talk) 09:20, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

The famous or unfamous "Terminator Salvation incident"

I hope expressing myself correctly, because my language is spanish. And that's my question. I love Christian Bale as an actor (he has made fantastic movies), and surfing the net I read this page and I'm surprised of the big amount of space it's dedicated to this item. Is it really so important to fill about 10% of the article??? Perhaps it`s because I'm from spain and here we're used to see people very very angry and famous ones too (perhaps it's because of our hot climate or hot temper...). I would like someone to explain me why is this incident so important. Thanx.Ladymenta (talk) 21:07, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the correct country of his birth

"England is a country that is part of the United Kingdom"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/England

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

If you're born in New York you do not list your nationality as New York because it is merely a part of a larger nation. England is merely a part of a larger nation. Hence, by legal definition he is British. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.47.14.145 (talk) 05:08, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

England is a nation (or country), so it's fine to say the nationality of someone who was born there is "English", besides being British as well. Clausgroi (talk) 21:27, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

His nationality is British, his ethnicity is English. Is that too hard for you to understand?

I would like to add that don't the Welsh usually reject the "Welshness" of people born in Wales to English parentage - even if they grew up in Wales and identified as Welsh?--109.149.136.203 (talk) 18:54, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

British vs English

His nationality is British. English, Welsh and Scottish are ethnicities. IS that too hard for you to understand? I know Americans get confused with this, they often refer to the UK and England.

He is British. Everyone born in the UK is either British or Northern Irish/Irish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.217.60.244 (talk) 10:40, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Is it too hard for you to understand that describing everyone born in the UK as "British" would be hugely problematic? Do you understand the 4 nations (*COUGH* NI *COUGH*) are 4 distinct nations within one sovereign state? I see you're based in Cardiff, my fellow IP. So, march up to the cities Plaid Cymru office (wherever that is in Cardiff) right now and tell them, straight to their faces, that they are British, and only British! - do you see the folly of your argument now? When someone has clearly made their self identification clear then we should respect that. The generic British moniker is no good for helping identify which nation of the UK someone comes from. There are people who identify as exclusively British, sure, but in Bale's case, he's made himself pretty clear. Yikes. I'm no English nationalist - more of a Devonian regionalist if you will - but I still have respect for self identification.--109.149.122.179 (talk) 18:01, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Nationality is not always the same thing as citizenship, and can mean different things in different countries. A British national might not necessarily be a British citizen, for example. --Joshua Issac (talk) 13:45, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Name of wife

Is the name of his wife Srboslava, Srbislava or Sandra? See her Bio at IMDb. The nickname Sibi points to Srbislava.--Zoupan 03:59, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

These sources note her name is Sandra. I wouldn't deem either source reliable but when compared to IMDb... Meatsgains (talk) 04:07, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2016

The article starts by saying "Christian Bale is an English actor...", but then it is clear he was born in Wales. So surely it should say "Christian Bale is a Welsh actor..." or, at worst, "British actor...." but he is certainly NOT English. 2.28.153.58 (talk) 05:37, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Please specifically state the changes that you want to make. However, I'll cut you some slack: look through the archive and you'll find that there is already a consensus in place in regards to this matter. 4TheWynne^{(talk)(contribs)} 09:30, 3 January 2016 (UTC)