Talk:Chop Suey!

Untitled

The grammar of this article needs to be fixed. 84.129.99.227 18:28, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It seems a lot of System of a Down fans "know" what the lyrics mean. But where are they getting this information? As I understand it, Serj usually refuses to comment on the lyrics, and I know he refused to comment on the lyrics of Chop Suey. If these interpretations can't be corroborated, they aren't encyclopedic and should be removed. CyborgTosser 22:23, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

This article is really really bad. I don't think this is the place for fans interpretations of lyrics. Plus the grammmer is terrible.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.3.64.7 (talk) 11:13, 29 July 2004 (UTC) I was going to try to clean the article up a bit, but I found that most of it is a copyvio from a System of a Down fansite. Once the interpretations are removed there's little left to warrant this article existing. If someone can write up a solid interpretation of the song based on verifiable truths, then it may be worth keeping, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. - MattTM 22:34, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)

I have never heard of the band or song but re I don't think this is the place for fans [sic] interpretations of lyrics. - the internet in general and Wikipedia in particular is full of song listings, lyrics, album covers and almost anything that offers nothing over and above the obvious. Ditto, most articles on books and stories are nothing but plot summaries - sterile and pointless in my opinion. I've tried in vain to find anyone on the internet actually doing things like analysis of lyrics, which seems to me something like scholarship. See also http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not - Biographies and articles about art works are supposed to be encyclopedia articles. But of course critical analysis of art is welcome, if grounded in direct observations The implication is that the writer can and should write about this, but from a detached perspective. For instance, instead of These are a few suggestions on the meaning of the song 'Chop Suey!'. one might write The meaning of the song has been speculated on. Some popular speculations include... Also the writer should not assume that the reader knows the lyrics already – relevant quotations within the contraints of fair use will help make the article more generally interesting. Notinasnaid 13:19, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This article needs a serious cleanup. It's very poorly written; parts of it are certainly not encyclopedic.

On the whole, however, I think the song is well-known enough to justify a (balanced and encyclopedic) article about it.

Maybe if we removed all but the barest essentials and returned this article to "stub" status, it would evolve better the second time? The article would read something like: "Chop Suey! is a song by System of a Down from their 2001 album, Toxicity. As with many SoaD songs, the band refuses to comment on the lyrics; however, several interpretations of the lyrics exist." I think simply restarting may be the best solution, but I won't myself without the opinions of other users.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Fermatprime (talk • contribs) 15:00, 5 September 2004 (UTC)

Until we can agree on a solution, I cleaned up the grammar and made the article a little less impenetrable (I hope.) - Fermat—Preceding unsigned comment added by Fermatprime (talk • contribs) 15:00, 5 September 2004 (UTC)

Hey! All of you just "be bold" and edit this "without mercy"!--euyyn 00:02, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Lyrics

Remove the lyrics from this article, Wikipedia is not a song lyrics database.—Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperDude115 (talk • contribs) 01:47, 30 April 2005 (UTC)

Say what?

I'm sorry, my command of historical facts is a bit wobbly. Could someone explain what the "Russo Japanese War" had to do with the Armenian massacre? func(talk) 01:26, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"the song is actually based on a poem by Father Armeni about the Armenian Genocide (all of the band members are of Armenian heritage), especially in honor of those who were valiant enough to risk their lives in order to bring peace to the world and freedom to their people." -> WTF!?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.233.52.99 (talk) 10:46, 4 July 2005 (UTC)

Quote - 'However, many fans argue it is a discussion of Serj's childhood, when he and a friend were in a Chinese takeaway: a mental patient who had been recently released stormed into the building dressed as an angel and shot his friend repeatedly, leading to the lyrics "when angels deserve to die."' WTF?? SOAD songs dont have literal meanings and this sounds like a story someone pulled from their a**hole. If you go through every interview you wont find this information cos it doesnt exist. Ultrasound 19:23, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Erm..

Is there much point saying that the word suicide can be heard in the 'final cuts opening seconds' when the lyrics, at least before any censor gets to mangle them, includes the words "self-rightous suicide". Its in more than the opening seconds...—Preceding unsigned comment added by Renamed user CnELGrVopW (talk • contribs) 20:36, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

The article doesn't just note that the word "suicide" can be heard, it reveals that the phrase "We're rolling 'Suicide.'" can be heard, which is a remant of when the song was to be titled, simply, "Suicide." In light of this, I find it a perfectly relevant inclusion in the article. --Dalkaen^T/C 22:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I thought I heard something about suicide. . . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.22.14 (talk) 15:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

A Subliminal Message?

Each time Serj says "Grab a brush and put a little makeup," if you are listning very closely, you can hear him say something like "toy with it a little"

Lsten! youll see what i mean.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.168.17 (talk) 02:47, 26 November 2005 (UTC)---California 5:01 P.M.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.172.248 (talk) 04:27, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Hm, is there a particular chorus at which he says this? I don't hear that at all. It must be very quiet if it's there at all. --Dalkaen^T/C 09:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Can't hear it off CD here - any chance you've got a psychoacoustically compressed version of it and you're hearing things in the artefacting? --Kiand 13:40, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

It is after every time he says "grab a brush and put a little makeup." He starts saying it a little before the sentence is over, so it might be hard to catch. It sounds very echoed, so it almost dosent sound like speaking.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.172.248 (talk) 04:13, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

What are you listening to it on? After listening off the CD on a good stereo all I can hear after that sentence is a guitar harmonic from Daron muting the strings. There is an echo after "hide the scars to fade away the shake-up", but that's just another band member repeating the same line in a hoarse whisper. Graphia 01:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

No, its a voice i hear. Very soft, low, indistinct, and noticable. Its not the geetar, or bass, either. Look, ive had the CD for 4 years, and i just heard it 2 months ago.. CLEAN OUT YOUR EARS—Preceding unsigned comment added by Serj Rocks (talk • contribs) 01:36, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Plus, you have to REALLY put yur ear up to the speaker. You can hear it better on headphones—Preceding unsigned comment added by Serj Rocks (talk • contribs) 22:43, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

• Ah yes, I heard. I'd think it's just echo from the studio or guitar or something though. You should try yelling "Grab a brush and put a little makeup" quite loudly and see what you hear, eh? // James 11:34, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

...Interesting theory, but I agree with James. "Soft and low"? Since the bass is playing when Serj says it, that might be it. Still, has anyone tried checking it for backmasks? --Djwings 14:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

YOU ALL ARE DOING DRUGS DONT JUDGE HIM THIS WAS A GREAT SONG!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.233.213 (talk) 18:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Listen to it carefully! I ended up here looking for someone else that have heard that too. I have uploaded it so you can know what we're talking about...

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0QTGHufjfr6 (this is the part) https://vocaroo.com/i/s0DxS7i6MwYw (this is the same but slower)

If I'm not wrong, what can be heard is "Wait a minute!", don't know why it would be on the song. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.255.219.139 (talk) 00:30, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Plus a new way to look at it

The Suey in Chop Suey! Is not short for suicide at all, but rather, it is his GIRLFRIEND'S name. Chop Suey! Get it? It is about how he fells the relashonship is going, and he is complaining of how Suey is leaving her keys on the table and putting on makeup after a shakeup. He is referring to her when he says angels deserve to die.

I hope you understand better---California, 8:24 P.M.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.172.248 (talk) 04:13, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

• This is probably more appropriate for www.songmeanings.net than Wikipedia; critical analysis of and speculation about lyrics are not the same thing Graphia 00:58, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Yur one of those pessimistic type of people, huh?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Serj Rocks (talk • contribs) 01:32, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Umm...............it is really easy to hear on your computer if u download a mp3 vrsion or put it on your computer from the cd, you can muffle things..............-My friend told me this— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.146.147.203 (talk) 04:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

i always looked at it as a husband who was mentally ill so he abused his wife and eventually drove her into suicide. it takes him a while to comprehend what he had done but when he realizes what he has done he prays that god will just end his life already because he really misses her, something was just messed up in his head. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.250.8.181 (talk) 18:29, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

The lyrics

Y'know, wasn't it Wikipedia policy to not have copyright material, i.e. lyrics, in an article? Shouldn't we replace it with a link or something? ZanderSchubert 23:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

It is indeed a policy. I was bold and removed them. A link might be fine, though. --Dalkaen^T/C 00:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

_{darn, I should'a been bold... ZanderSchubert 09:01, 3 March 2006 (UTC)}

That's not bold. That's reasonable. bob rulz 08:30, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

---Improvements This page needs some clearing up.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.135.9 (talk) 19:14, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Ha Ha, you guys are all a bunch of brainless idiots!!!!!!!!!!!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.181.203.60 (talk) 02:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The video

About the contribution by Djwings: The stage performances in the video were shot just for the video, they're not real concerts. Although I can't prove it, I'm quite sure about it. --Tzeck 17:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay, then edit it that way. I said I was probably wrong, so thanks for making it right.--DJ Wings- Freestyle here 14:57, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Although it wasn't during a real concert, in an interview Shavo or John said it was filmed by a hotel on Sunset Blvd, because the albums name refers to L.A, so they shot it there.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.199.67.9 (talk) 18:28, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Sep 11

The following appears in the article:

"The album it appears on, Toxicity, was #1 on the charts during the week of the September 11, 2001 attacks and the controversy surrounding the popular single at the time led to Clear Channel Radio temporarily removing the song from its stations' playlists."

Wouldn't it greatly help the article to explain exactly what that controversy was? As far as this article is concerned, the meaning of the lyrics can't even be confirmed, so why all of the controversy? And what does it have to do with Sep 11, as none of the meanings given seem to have any relation to it. Livingston 19:09 17 April, 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the comments about Jesus are true at all. It doesn't seem to make any suggestion that Jesus expected to be saved.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.100.252.96 (talk) 19:11, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the controversy was probably over the "self-righteous suicide" part. -- 12.116.162.162 16:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the "self-righteous suicide" part, but also the "when angels deserve to die" one. Gracz54 17:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

in Chinese

the word 'Chop Suey' means 'fried fragments'. Don't know how relevant that is to the meaning of the song—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.67.130.42 (talk) 19:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

it could have something to do with how the song sounds...—Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.199.67.9 (talk) 18:29, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

probably because in the censored version of the song the words "we're rolling suicide" have been cut out and are very unclear but you can still just barely hear fragments of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.250.8.181 (talk) 18:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

They probably just liked the name. Ambiesushi (talk) 04:46, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Chart position

The article contradicts itself...it says the song reached #1 in the article, but then in the chart position it says it reached 76...whats the deal. ChopAtwa 13:37, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

• If you'll see the article for the song "I'm Real" I'm Real then you'll see that this song is said to be the number 1 song during the September 11 terrorist attacks. Also the article Hot 100 number-one hits of 2001 (USA) Also says that the song I'm Real is the number 1 song. The statements saing that this is the number 1 song are misleading and possibly false, though it is possible it was the number 1 selling single, or number 1 in therms of airplay. However that needs to be specified and cited. Also the part about the song being banned is misleading and fallacious, as that list by clear channel was just a list of recommendations. 76.19.42.233 (talk) 16:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Gospels

Uh, Luke is a synoptic gospel, if I remember correctly. And I'm relatively sure I do. John is the non-synoptic. --Dan Moore 05:35, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

OMFG: Hater Returns!

• Un-fucking-believeable! Yes, it's me again. The "wopper"[sic] of wops. As if you didn't know already, what relevancy does this track contain? Nothing. That's right. I hear no "subliminal messages", all I heard was bullshit about leaving your keys on a table, angels commiting suicide, and grabbing some stupid-assed brush to get some motherfucking makeup. I'm not shocked. I'm just fucking pissed off. Apparently, no one gives a fuck. So the next time you hear this album after buying it at the F.Y.E, or watch the music videos without going, "Oh! My little chinpoko hurts! I can't believe Serj said that!", just remember, you are the biggest stereotypical asshole listening to this, in words of Green Day, bullshit political punk rock music. As if you already know right at this moment, this fucking moment, we all know that the music is being comedic in politics and its total bullshit that its nu-metal and not comedy rock like the other anal-cunts out there. In other words, you must be fucking retarded if you listen to this shit. -DtW—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dago the Wop (talk • contribs) 19:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Nu Metal

Change it into *just* nu-metal maybe? or rap metal or rap rock or something like that?Pilmccartney (talk) 21:39, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Borderlands 2

I'm not certain how to add this to the main list but Chop Suey is the name of a level in Borderlands 2 DLC2 Mr. Torgue's Campaign of Carnage. It is explicitly in ref to the song as other levels have names like Welcome to the Jungle (Guns and Roses) and Ballroom Blitz (Sweet). 86.6.186.152 (talk) 12:21, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 8 May 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved Mike Cline (talk) 13:28, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

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Chop Suey! (song) → Chop Suey! – Shorter and redirects here. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 03:29, 16 May 2015 (UTC) --MASHAUNIX 02:01, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

• Support per Airplane! and WP:SMALLDETAILS Red Slash 02:36, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't WP:SMALLDETAILS contradict MOS:TM on some points? Just curious.--MASHAUNIX 03:18, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Mashaunix, as it happens, WP:SMALLDETAILS is part of WP:AT, a policy. MOS:TM is a guideline. This means that if MOS:TM conflicts with WP:SMALLDETAILS, MOS:TM is the one that should usually yield. And indeed, in practice, MOS:TM is routinely ignored (or !voted down) on Wikipedia for names that are recognizable, concise, natural, precise, and consistent with other articles. Red Slash 22:31, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose per Talk:Bingo! (Steve Miller Band album) and WP:SMALLDETAILS in its original state before recent undiscussed changes. Nom has not shown that ! is never used with any other Chop Suey, nor that this song is always used with !. Chop Suey (song) should redirect to dab as Chop Suey (Rodgers and Hammerstein song) is massively more notable. Better move to Chop Suey (System of a Down song) with or without the WP:SMALLDETAILS !. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:41, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm opposed to this alternative as there are no other articles for songs titled "Chop Suey" on WP. I've changed the hatnote on this article to refer to other songs listed on the disamb page, and I think that should be sufficient in that direction. As for this Chop Suey, it is titled with ! on the album's track listing, and no other articles titled Chop Suey on WP could possibly use ! in an alternative title, which makes this case completely different from that of Bingo! (which is commonly used in other contexts).--MASHAUNIX 04:10, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

SHAUN please see WP:DAB. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:45, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

OK, this might not be the primary topic for Chop Suey (song). It would be better if that redirected to the dab. However, I'm still confident that if someone searches for this term with a !, they will be referring to the song. There is no other topic (in the context of which a ! would follow this term) that a person would be looking for this way.--MASHAUNIX 13:33, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but what if they don't? You've just contradicted your own proposal. This song doesn't always have the ! so can't always be searched for by !. End of RM In ictu oculi (talk) 09:41, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Well I think it will be recognisable on a list of chop sueys to anyone looking for the song, especially when indicated.--MASHAUNIX 01:21, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

• Support per Red Slash. Chop suey is not normally an exclamation, and so anyone typing in the exclamation point is quite likely looking for this song. Dohn joe (talk) 00:15, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. A quick look on the artwork for the cover shows the exclamation mark is optional. Using an exclamation mark as the full and total disambiguation is flawed at the best of times, in this instance it is fatally flawed. --Richhoncho (talk) 08:34, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

The question we should ask is whether when someone searches for Chop Suey! with an exclamation mark, they could be looking for a topic other than this song. In my opinion the answer is no.--MASHAUNIX 13:33, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

But if someone searches for "chop suey" and sees an exclamation point at the end of one of multiple options, most would not know if that's the one they are looking for. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 18:41, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

That's the core point, but I think you're wrong on your analysis thereof. Why do you think most people looking for this song wouldn't know if that's the one they're looking for? Red Slash 22:33, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. Too ambiguous. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Progressive Metal

I think we should add progressive metal to the genres behind alternative metal. It has many of the features of a progressive metal song, such as a lengthy composition, different technical techniques, and melodic/thematic elements. Thoughts? SuperLuigi22 (talk) 03:26, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

No. That is entirely unfounded original research. dannymusiceditor ^oops 04:11, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 27 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 15:03, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

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Chop Suey! (song) → Chop Suey! – Chop Suey! already redirects here so there's no reason for the parentheses. This is the only page listed on Chop suey (disambiguation) that includes an exclamation point. The official music video, YouTube audio, and Spotify audio all include the exclamation point. Official name is of course not binding but it's something to consider. I haven't analyzed whether with or without is more common in media, but here is an assortment of articles that use the exclamation point: [1] [2] [3] These show that even if the exclamation point isn't the most commonly used name, it is a commonly used name, and WP:NATURAL says we should prefer the naturally-disambiguated "Chop Suey!" over the parenthetical "Chop Suey (song)". But the current title of "Chop Suey! (song)" makes no sense, because again, "Chop Suey!" redirects here anyway. —pythoncoder (talk | contribs) 04:00, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:24, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. YorkshireExpat (talk) 20:57, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nominator. The song can be distinguished from the dish by the presence of the exclamation point. JIP | Talk 23:41, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nomination; Crouch, Swale; YorkshireExpat and JIP. Analogous to main title headers such as Airplane!, Oliver! or Mars Attacks!. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:01, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support. Distinct from the food per WP:SMALLDETAILS. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:56, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support. Nataev ^talk 08:31, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Does anybody know which live version is on the single for "War?" and "Sugar"?

I've been wanting to download this on my phone, which version is it? 2A02:C7E:32C5:7A00:AD59:7DED:FC40:8F33 (talk) 12:13, 24 June 2023 (UTC)