Talk:Chili oil

Ingredients list

Excuse me, I didn't realize there was such a lot of discussion about this. I added other ingredients, taken from the labels of commercial Chinese and Japanese oils which I have used, and from ones I've seen in the store. Also, some from Internet recipes. If this isn't in line with somebody's idea of the article goals, just delete it. Regards. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 07:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I've got some in front of me that has Sichuan peppercorns and sesame seeds, in addition to the normal vegetable oil and ground dried red chilis. But the name, as given in Chinese, isn't exactly the same; it has a few more characters. I think it's Sichuan-style chili oil. Badagnani 07:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Cool! Got it--the one I have is 家居油辣子. This would mean something like "home style oil spicy." The English says it's Sichuan style. Badagnani 07:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll check it out in more detail tomorrow morning Badagnani in China town here in Boston.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 07:31, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I think they can fit in somehow, we need to source them though to not have confusion. I'm glad you put up the chili, garlic oil because it just reminded me of it. I will look into it some more when the morning hits here. Thanks for the contribution, do you recall the brand names of the oils with additional flavors added to them?--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 07:30, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The brand I have is "Red Earth." Badagnani 07:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC, I guess the "point of order", so to speak, is whether something labeled as "X Style Chili Oil" belongs in this article. There's no question that many of the ingredients I mentioned are in some variation of "basic" chili oil. Here's an example: http://www.amazon.com/7-2-Chiu-Chow-Chili-Oil/dp/B000T3WBX2 (Note the ingredient list). Regardless of how the article wants to treat such things, the reference to sesame oil as a ingredient should stay, because that's a normal high cost alternative to soybean oil in "basic" chili oil. !Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 07:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Hrm, no, that wasn't my thought at all. I wasn't saying that anything should be removed, I was actually welcoming it and just trying to figure out the best way for it to become part of the article which just means there needs to be some sort of organization, such as what types of oils are used, what types of chilies and what types of additional flavorings are added which seem to differ with each culture and different commercial products within those cultures.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 08:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC, there's a problem of classification. Perhaps that can be approached by assuming that major commerical Chinese (Japanese, Thai, etc.) products represent "traditional" chili oils. Commerical products, however, can't be relied upon for ingredient lists, since they often economize. In the example URL above, that product contains water, salt, sugar, and preservatives -- some of which I wouldn't expect in a traditional oil, and none of which I would tend to put in a homemade chili oil. (Variations by culture will be tricky, because cultures have a tendency to modify recipes with whatever is familiar to them. Here in California, I'd expect a good chef to use olive, sesame or canola oil, whereas in the midwest USA, I'd expect they're using corn oil more often -- just as a casual guess.) Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 08:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

This is where quality cookbooks and culinary manuals can come into play then instead of personal websites. I own many, many books on most of the major cuisines (I have a library of over 1,000 books on food and culture as I am a food historian, not just a chef). I am sure there are websites that are better than others as well. It is important to have both the commercial varieties and non-commercial varieties included making sure they satisfy Wikipedia:Notability in their variations.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 09:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, a published book is very good. You're a professional chef, and I only know a couple who happen to be in my family, so I'm going to lean toward your judgment about book selection. I do still have the issue that if the book includes some -- let's call it "chi-chi" -- recipe for chili oil, that it won't receive much of an echo in the bulk of the population which frequently use chili oil.

As for the non-commercial varieties and variations of chili oil...uh...it's just a little overwhelming. A PhD dissertation for someone... Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 09:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Corn oil isn't as popular as it once was, even in the Midwest where corn is grown. Soybean oil, though, is what is usually labeled as "vegetable oil." Sunflower, safflower, or peanut might be used as well. Honestly, I've never seen toasted (brown) sesame oil used to make chili oil. Badagnani 08:52, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, Badagnani, no fear there, I've got the bottle right in front of me. I mean the chili oil. It's got two ingredients sesame oil, and red pepper. (It's Japanese, and I can't read the name, just the distributor.) There's another version of this product I've purchased which adds paprika. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 08:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I've seen "paprika" given on Chinese ingredient lists, and I think it's some crazy translation they're getting from some dictionary they have in the factory. The term "paprika" is pretty specific to the Hungarian and Spanish varieties of semi-spicy powder made from dried red Capsicum. Badagnani 09:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the sesame oil, from my experience it may be the blonde-colored non-toasted kind rather than the dark brown toasted variety. Badagnani 09:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Badagnani, both the "paprika" comment and the "blond sesame oil" comment seem likely. In the case of "paprika", looks like we might need someone with Japanese to read the bottle. As for "blond", is this like...a personal reference to my hair color... do we have something against blonds? Seriously, toasted vs. untoasted, just seems like another variant to consider, here? Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 09:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Haha, here are Spectrum's two varieties:

• Toasted
• Untoasted

Badagnani 09:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Badagnani Ah, this is in reference to you saying you've never seen dark sesame oil in chili oil. I haven't either. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 09:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Good point--the ones with added ingredients do seem to be "X-style" chili oils. Hit the grocery stores, bring a notepad, and see what the ingredients on the jars say. The Asian supermarket near where I live must have at least 2 dozen varieties. Badagnani 08:21, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I also have a bottle of Sichuan pepper-flavored oil, but it has no solids; it's clear and yellow in color rather than red, and is simply soybean oil that's presumably been infused with Sichuan peppercorns or Sichuan peppercorn extract. So it would be a different category of oils, in this case an infused or flavored oil. You have to be very savvy to find these things because the English on the label is usually wrong. This one says "Chili Oil" in English but the Chinese says 花椒油, which means "flower pepper oil" (Sichuan pepper oil). Badagnani 07:42, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

A "Flower pepper" is a type of chili, so that makes sense actually.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 08:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

This is very interesting. This person talks about making a batch of homemade chili oil, and adding all kinds of "secret ingredients" like small amounts of MSG, salt, soy sauce, garlic, and star anise. Just translate it from Chinese-simplified to English with babelfish.altavista.com to read it. One note: whenever the translation is given as "garrulous," this is a mistranslation; the character 碎 should translate as "crushed" or "powdered." Badagnani 07:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Badagnani, I've been experimenting with chili (fresh and dried) and sesame oil, and, just throwing things together, made very good oils at considerably less costs. Commercial oil now seems insipid...and it's usually stale, no matter where I buy it, or how much I pay. (And I live in an urban area with a huge Oriental presense.) I'd actually think twice about using the oil they use in Chinese restaurants, now. There's a lot of potential payoff, here. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 08:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

But I'm also not in favor of citing a persons personal webpage for an encyclopedic article, we should use better more concrete sources with fuller cultural authenticity. It would be like citing my recipe for cassoulet off of the food blog I run, although it may seem authentic, who am I to be an authority on such a subject unelss you know my full-background, proper research techniques and academic authority.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 08:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I added it for informational purposes. This research progresses block by block, often slowly. I hope you're not implying that I was going to immediately inject this information into the article willy-nilly? If you examine my contribution history, I think you'll find I don't do that. Badagnani 08:17, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I often come of crabbier after 3am as I get more blunt in my comments as I get tired, so don't mind me lol.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 08:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Non-Asian chili oil

As I have elsewhere noted, an article entitled “chili oil” ought to cover chili oil generally, as opposed to focussing on the chili oils of the Far East. Since chilies (as opposed to peppercorns) originate in the Americas and were first used as a foodstuff there, we should expect chili oils to have made their first appearances in Meso- and South America. In any case, from “Under the Spell Of Quetzalcóatl” by Megan Harlan in the New York Times, one can see that chili oil is used in present Mexican cuisine (though the article merely mentions this use). —SlamDiego_←T 10:01, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it already covers "chili oil" generally. Yes, the article leans heavily towards East Asian cuisine, but why would you even consider this to be a problem? My guess is that nobody is stopping you from mentioning non-Asian cuisine. It naturally leans heavily towards East Asian cuisine because it is a major East Asian sauce, and apparently not a major sauce in other cuisines. Is there something wrong if a spaghetti article mentioned Italy just because tomatos are from non-Italian South America, and noodles came from non-Italian China? --Bxj (talk) 15:55, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was no consensus. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 18:03, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

---

I propose that Chili crisp be merged into Chili oil. I think that the content in the Chili crisp article can easily be explained in the context of Chili oil, especially as additions such a crispy garlic, black beans and the like are already mentioned in the Chili oil article. Further, the Chili oil article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Chili crisp will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 22:05, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

As the main author of that article, sounds good to me. Ungulates (talk) 07:44, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Totally waffling on this. There's a difference, but they're related condiments. Maybe try to expand chili crisp and see?—valereee (talk) 14:20, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I've easily expanded Chili crisp into something that wouldn't work as a subsection of this article, and I suspect I can keep going. I think merging isn't necessary. I'd like to suggest we close this discussion as no consensus to merge. —valereee (talk) 17:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. Closing... Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 18:03, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merger proposal, mark 2

Reopening the discussion about merging Chilli crisp into Chilli oil.

The chilli crisp article is about a very common subtype of Chinese chilli oil: chilli oil with sediment. This is in fact the default meaning of chilli oil in many contexts across China, e.g. if you go to a restaurant and ask for chilli oil, this is what you will get. In addition, the article is largely about the very recent North American discovery of, and consequent fad for chilli oil. It uses a term throughout ("chilli crisp") which, at least in English, I suspect has been recently coined specifically in the North American context. It refers throughout to the condiment as a "hot sauce", a classification totally alien to its Chinese origin, and which I suggest was used in the referenced articles simply as a familiar term and crutch to help introduce US readers to the condiment. Hot sauce is a purely American phenomena, and, apart from both featuring chilli peppers, there is almost no point of similarity.

I suggest this be merged in as a subsection of Chilli oil, perhaps as "North American reception" or something similar. Prime Entelechy (talk) 15:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Manor Magnifico green

Wayanad homestay 117.222.166.18 (talk) 07:22, 9 April 2024 (UTC)