Talk:Cheshvan

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Rename

Why isn't the title of the article Marcheshvan? 70.20.90.65 22:41, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because no one calls the month Marcheshvan. --Fez2005 (talk) 06:56, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nonetheless, Cheshvan is not the proper name of the month. See [this article] for details. The article should be moved to "Marcheshvan," with "Cheshvan" redirecting. Flourdustedhazzn (talk) 14:59, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

17th day Heshvan

The 17th day Heshvan (Bul) which is the second the month of ancient Jewish secular year. Genesis 7:11 - The demons dematerialized when the Flood came. Genesis 6:1-4; for Jude 6. - The Nephilim hybrid the offspring of the demons drowned. Genesis 6:4. This corresponds to the October-November period.

Nimrod started his own religion. No

In many cultures a single event, Festival of the Dead, lasting up to 3 days, was held at the end of October and beginning of November; examples include the Peruvians, the Hindus, the Pacific Islanders, the people of the Tonga Islands, the Australians, the ancient Persians, the ancient Egyptians, the Japanese, ancient Romans, and the northern nations of Europe. see Festival of the Dead. Ayamarca, (November) in the incas languages mean Festival of the Dead.

“Elements of the customs connected with Halloween can be traced to a Druid [ancient Celtic priesthood] ceremony in pre-Christian times. The Celts had festivals for two major gods—a sun god and a god of the dead . . . , whose festival was held on November 1, the beginning of the Celtic New Year. The festival of the dead was gradually incorporated into Christian ritual.”

Josephus: “[Nimrod] little by little transformed the state of affairs into a tyranny, holding that the only way to detach men from the fear of God was by making them continuously dependent upon his own power. He threatened to have his revenge on God if He wished to inundate the earth again; for he would build a tower higher than the water could reach and avenge the destruction of their forefathers. The people were eager to follow this advice of [Nimrod], deeming it slavery to submit to God; so they set out to build the tower . . . and it rose with a speed beyond all expectation.”—Jewish Antiquities, I, 114, 115 (iv, 2, 3). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.60.200 (talk) 09:39, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mistakes propagated by Wikipedia

The reason why people do not call Marcheshvan by its proper name is because of misinformation put out by websites, for example this one [1]. A false etymology is provided, leading people to believe that the name is Cheshvan with an optional adjectival prefix. One of the objects of Wikipedia is to be a platform from which people can be sure they are getting reliable information. Some websites try to be accurate, e.g. this one [2] but even this gets it wrong. During the Babylonian captivity the Babylonian calendar came into use, the eighth month of which was arach-samna, arach meaning "month" and samna meaning "eighth". By documented rules of pronunciation change arach-samna transmuted into Marcheshvan.

The Manual of Style does not say that when a word is abbreviated for convenience it is wrong to write it out in full. This is why the article "BBC" specifically states that the actual name is "British Broadcasting Corporation". 86.166.125.99 (talk) 17:09, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List of Historical Events

The list of historical events was clearly copied from some Chabad calendar, and should be edited for Neutral POV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.69.5.238 (talk) 00:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Feast of Jeorboam

"After seeking advice, the king made two golden calves. He said to the people, 'It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem. Here are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.' One he set up in Bethel, and the other in Dan. And this thing became a sin; the people went even as far as Dan to worship the one there. Jeroboam built shrines on high places and appointed priests from all sorts of people, even though they were not Levites. He instituted a festival on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, like the festival held in Judah, and offered sacrifices on the altar. This he did in Bethel, sacrificing to the calves he had made. And at Bethel he also installed priests at the high places he had made. On the fifteenth day of the eighth month, a month of his own choosing, he offered sacrifices on the altar he had built at Bethel. So he instituted the festival for the Israelites and went up to the altar to make offerings." 1 Kings 12:28-33.--JaredMithrandir (talk) 08:57, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, no quorum or evidence provided. Please reinitiate discussion as necessary. Dekimasuよ! 00:16, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Cheshvan → Marcheshvan – The correct name is Marcheshvan as explained in the article. Marcheshvan currently links to this page but it should be the other way around. The reason I can't do the move myself is that someone tried to cut and paste this page to Marcheshvan once and was rightly reverted, so Marcheshvan is not a redirect with no history. Thanks, administrator, in advance. --Relisted. Dekimasuよ! 01:18, 10 November 2014 (UTC) Jfr26 (talk) 14:56, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The English-language sources linked in the article use "Cheshvan." If you would like this move to proceed, please present evidence that Marcheshvan is the common name in English. Dekimasuよ! 01:07, 10 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

I want to open this up again. The name of the month is Marcheshvan and that is what the page should be. We should not be having the name of the page what people may erroneously call the page, and Cheshvan can remain a redirect. Look at the lead, it even begins with "Marcheshvan." Can we get a quick consensus on this? 🔯 Sir Joseph ^🍸(talk) 20:37, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe the move is needed. I think that this is the WP:COMMONNAME. See all of the examples listed there. - Galatz ^Talk 20:58, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It might be the common name but that works for articles about people or other stuff, in this case the common name is incorrect. The title of the article should reflect what the month is actually called not what people mistakenly call it, sometimes due to it being the title of encyclopedia articles. We should be here to educate people. 🔯 Sir Joseph ^🍸(talk) 21:03, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, f--k, can't we skip at least one year? The most common name is Cheshwan, so no, no and no again! Debresser (talk) 21:59, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cheshvan is the common name. Period. Full stop. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:56, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sir Joseph: If you're looking for the correct name, then you should consider renaming the article M'raḥsh'wan (Hebrew: מְרַחְשְׁוָן). That's how the month is pronounced in Yemenite Hebrew, and is probably the most correct. -- -- -- 20:07, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rasist junk on religion page, really?!

@Debresser:, hi. You can't be serious. Everything happened on a date, but this page is about Judaism as religion and, just maybe and to a very small degree, Jewish/Israeli national history, because Israel chose to keep that Jewish calendar on top of the international one. Shall we put in the dates of the Assassination of Haim Arlosoroff and Emil Grunzweig, or the birthdays of Yishai Schlissel's victims? The bar mitzva anniversaries of th 1980s Jewish Underground terrorists? Deir Yassin also happened on a specific day. Or would you shoot back with the Altalena Affair date and the starting day of the Hunting Season? This is all nonsense. This page can easily be kept clean of politicisation. I'm not even sure Rabin's assassination belongs here, except that there's an Israeli national commemoration day, counted acc. to the Jewish calendar. (And making a mockery of his heritage). Poor Rabin never striked me as part of the Jewish calendar narrative, but whatever. But KKKahane?! Why not Baruch Goldstein, his best known disciple? There is lots of junk with known birth- and death days spread around, with or w/o memorials in Kiryat Arba or in some people's hearts. Please, let's stay real. Arminden (talk) 22:34, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just check what/who else is on the list:

Methuselah
Death of Rachel
Yitzhak Rabin
King Jeroboam
Mattathias
Kristallnacht
First Temple completed
a Chabad Rebbe
Hasmoneans cleanse the Temple

And you want KKahane on this list? Arminden (talk) 22:54, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Me, I would remove the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin from the list, too. He was murdered on 4 November. Yigal Amir crawled out of his rathole on 12 Marcheshvan. But I won't push this - "peace is the message". Rav Nosferatu - not so much. Arminden (talk) 23:04, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point, and I actually agree with it. However, we have a few more, sown here and there in the Hebrew months articles:

Death of Ariel Sharon on 10 Shvat;
Death of Herzl on 10 Iyar;
Hanging of two Nazis on 21 and 27 Iyar;
Bombing on the 10 Av;
Death of Peres on 25 Elul. Debresser (talk) 00:09, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great, I'm truly relieved, you don't know how much I really am. The topic is "Jewish calendar", not "the history of the Jewish people". If we do agree on leaving SOME historical figures in, then only the truly momentous ones, of great national importance and/or those with official national memorial days in Israel: Herzl, Ben-Gurion, Jabotinsky (see, I'm a nice equal-opportunities guy) and Rabin, finito, although they were all secular and lived their lives according to the international calendar. Actually, that would be a criterion: until when did the majority of the Jews use the Jewish calendar as a day-to-day tool? Probably until the beginning of the Haskala plus a few short decades :) So let's say: major events until 1800, but not later. As a general rule.

Less is better.

I suggest we stick to 1) religious holidays (biblical mainly, and mainstream Rabbinical ones) and 2) Public holidays in Israel (not all; Victory in Europe Day rather not, too unspecific), with 3) a few major dates from Jewish national history, where the problems will start, because it leaves room for personal as well as rhetorical and propagandistic inclusions. So 3) kept to a total minimum. No Sharon, Peres, hanging of Nazis. Not sure of Kristallnacht (then we start with Wannsee Conference, Warsaw Ghetto uprising, liberation if Birkenau,... What else?) We do have the Israeli Holocaust Remembrance Day, and it's a political compromise with no historical meaning, the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau would be more relevant in historical terms (not because it was chosen as the International Holocaust Remembrance Day, but for what it actually meant), but you must calculate the Jewish date for 27-1-1945. Or we do go with the official Israely V-Day in Europe recalculated for the J. cal. ... Such a BS. I'm not sure why the Chabad Rebbe No. 5 got in (the founder I understand, also Mr. Menachem Schneerson, the much-awaited. Or was #5 the one with the split?). There are lots of large movements with at least 2-3 (or 12-13) celebrities each...

Removing the Buenos Aires bombing might upset the relatives (85 dead), but then we have so much else on that scale (Crusades-related mass murders, pogroms, single Holocaust-related events - Struma comes to mind, almost 800 dead-at-sea -, Palestine riots, Israel's wars, 2 Intifadas, 1970s terror attacks [Munich, Lod Airport, etc.], new events like the Hypercacher kosher supermarket siege and the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting...). We must find a way to cut down. This is not the place for that!

Lots of stuff. All I REALLY care for was and is: no discredited extremists should go in. The Knesset outlawed the Kahane party as racist and anti-democratic. Not sure any other party, Jewish or Arab, ever got that legal tag, before or after. Once Kahane is out (and Baruch Goldstein & Co never make it in), I won't be bothering anyone, I promise. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 12:12, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see that Herzl and Rabin have official days of commemoration in Israel on Iyar 10 and Cheshwan 12, and although these people are in my personal opinion null or less than null in Jewish history, respectively, I have to agree with you that if so, they have a place on these articles. I agree with you that all the rest must go. I do not appreciate the negative attitude towards Kahane, since you and I both know that his condemnation as a terrorist was more politics than reality, and you are well aware that he is respected or even revered among certain people in Israel and abroad. I am fine with making your opinion known, but you don't have to overdo it like you did. Anyway, that is besides the point. Debresser (talk) 14:49, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I removed those that I mentioned in my list above, and Kahane that we agreed upon. Debresser (talk) 14:54, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]