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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3→Archive 5

This archive page covers approximately the dates between 20 July, 2004 and 31 May, 2006.

Post replies to the main talk page, copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary.

Please add new archivals to Talk:Charmed/Archive 2. (See Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.) Thank you. AdamDobay 23:27, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

2004

Did Charmed season 8 show in America? in Malta it didn't-Kathleen Parsons Malta

I don't know that Paige can heal. Can anybody confirm/correct this? --Barry 18:43, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)

IIRC she has done so on at least one occasion, she is half-whitelighter after all. Elde 03:49, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I know there's that one episode where she's given a charge (Sam), but I don't remember her actually healing. There have been multiple times where she could have healed but called for Leo or Chris instead. Plus if she had the healing abilities wouldn't she heal quickly like other Whitelighters? That one episode where she meets Richard she walked around with the wound on her arm for a good while. --Barry 20:14, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)

IIRC she healed Sam, and on another occasion healed with Leo's support. Since the TNT re-runs are currently in that general area I'll keep my eyes open. Elde 02:14, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

In the Charmed Universe she can't heal on her own, but she can use her powers to augment those of a full whitelighter to heal those that they normally could not heal... for example Cole as healed by Leo and Paige, and also to aid fallen Whitelighters to find themselves, as is the case with Sam.

But to clarify, she cannot heal on her own. I have removed it from the article previously Warren 15:38, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

What happened to this page? It's been horribly mauled with plenty of perfectly accurate information lost! Anyone willing to help me sort this out? Warren 20:05, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Warren, I'm willing to research and help fix it, but I gotta know what you're talking about. Can you point out a last revision date that has the accurate info?--Barry 16:32, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)

What happened to the baby Phoebe was carrying with Cole? I never saw the episode that directly followed Cole being vanquished and Pheobe moving back into the manor. Thanks, Kristin 02/25/05 2150

The episode after Phoebe vanquishes Cole as the Source is called Womb Raider, and The Seer steals Phoebe's baby, transferring it from Phoebe's womb to her own, only to find that it is too powerful for her body to handle, so the baby self-destructs in The Seer's body, vanquishing itself, The Seer, and a bunch of other upper-level demons in the room.

I am very disappointed I cannot watch season 8 and perhaps the last. CTV refused to pick up the new season. I sent an email to Space but so far they haven't announced Charmed premiering yet. It looks like will just have to abandon tv and get the dvd of the series and others.--Tjkphilosofe 08:33, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

  • This season is so bad I've stopped watching. The WB network wanted a young character this season but cut the show's budget. This means they added a nubile, blonde witch who has a missing sister she's supposed to find - or not - but it also means they were forced to cut Brian Krause's appearances to only the first 10 episodes because they couldn't afford both him and Kaley Cuoco, who is the blonde named Billie. So Leo's completely gone now and we have to watch Billie run around in a short, tight outfit. The two television sites I frequent are full of really angry fans, and I'm one of them. ddlamb 06:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

The reason I read on "TheCharmedOnes.com" for cutting the number of appearances of Leo and cutting out Darryl altogether was because the budget was slashed and they wanted to bring in big name guest stars for the last season. I think it was a mistake. Even if is the last season, could use season 8 as jumping off point for a new series for example Charmed the next generation. However I don't believe Brad was optimistic that the show was returning. The last episode of season 7 was more a finale.--Tjkphilosofe 10:27, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

the following is maybe where the deleted information was moved

Also Starring

Recurring Guest Stars

See also

the following is the information deleted

I do not care to read 100 articles instead of one. Some or all of this belongs in the charmed article.

Mortals

Victor Bennett - The father of Prue, Piper, and Phoebe.

Andy Trudeau - The former inspector of SFPD. Andy worked as an inspector for the San Francisco Police Department and he coincidentally was assigned to almost every police case that involved the Halliwell sisters. He was in love with Pru, but because she wouldn't tell him her secret, they broke up. Eventually, Andy discovered the sisters' secret, and once he discovered that they were responsible for saving so many people's lives he risked his career and ultimately sacrificed his life to protect them.

Mark Chao - A human who was killed and became a ghost. He fell in love with Piper Halliwell.

Dream Sorcerer - A mortal who used dream technology to enter the dreams of the women who scorned him and kill them in their dreams.

Dan Gordon - The mortal neighbor who was attracted to Piper Halliwell. He, and his niece, Jenny, lived right beside the Halliwell Sisters. He used to play third base for the Seattle Mariners baseball team until he blew out his knee sliding home, but he worked in construction when he lived next to the sisters. While Dan never discovered the sisters' secret, he noticed the oddity of the girls' lives and often suspected that they were hiding something. When Piper and Leo's relationship hit a rough spot, Piper began to realize the trials and tribulations of being involved with Leo. When Piper felt attracted to Dan, she decided to date him instead of Leo because the relationship seemed much less complicated. However, Piper's sudden disappearances and avoidance of his questions drove Dan crazy and made him feel insecure in their relationship. He also always felt threatened by Leo because even though Piper did not see him often he knew that they had been serious and that Piper still cared for him. Dan seemed to feel as though he was simply "geographically desirable" and that fact was the basis of his and Piper's entire relationship. Piper finally broke up with Dan after she realized that even though she loved Dan, she loved Leo more. Dan also became very suspicious of Leo and even asked his brother who worked for the state department to check Leo's army records. When his brother discovered that Leo had been a soldier in World War II and had died in the war, Dan presented the information to Leo -- they then proceeded to beat the crap out of each other -- and finally to Piper. Dan moved away to Portland when he was offered a job there, deciding that it was time for him to move on with his life.

Jen Gordon - The mortal niece of Dan Gordon. A friend to the Halliwell Sisters, she was known to come to them of female advice when she was too embarrassed to talk to Dan.

Witches

Aviva - Aviva is a practical witch who was granted the power of heat and fire. By Kali's guidance, she had gained the trust of Phoebe Halliwell, the third of the Charmed Ones, and wanted to become a Charmed One. However, because of Prue's distrust in her, she tried to get rid of her but failed. Kali had possessed Aviva and turned her against the Charmed Ones. She was later freed and became a friend of the Charmed Ones.

Max - Max is a male witch with the power of psychokinesis. He can move things with his mind without having to see it. He was kidnapped by murderous thieves so they could use him to help them break into vaults in banks.

Melinda Warren - The beginning of Warren/Halliwell magic, Melinda Warren was born in Virginia, but later moved to Salem, Massachusetts. She possessed all three of the Charmed Ones powers: telekinesis, premonitions, and temporal stasis. She was tricked by a warlock named Matthew Tate who copied her powers and then turned her in to the witch-hunters. Melinda managed to curse Matthew into a locket, but she was burned at the stake in the Salem witch trials. She was summoned to the twentieth century by her descendants, the Charmed Ones, to help return Matthew Tate back into the locket. She succeeded and returned to the spirit world.

Wyatt Matthew Halliwell - Piper and Leo's new son, Wyatt, is the newest addition to the Halliwell manor. A prophecy foretold of the birth of a twice-blessed child to be born on a day when three planets aligned on a Wiccan sabbat during the Aurora Borealis and magic would be removed from the world. When Evil discovered the prophecy, they plotted to steal Wyatt, who was destined to be powerful, in order to make him a powerful force for Evil. Fortunately, the sisters managed to keep the baby from falling into the demons' hands. Even though Piper and Leo knew that their child would be very powerful, both were surprised at the reaction to the baby from the demonic community. When two demons offered bounty for Wyatt, the sisters eventually went on the offensive and killed as many demons as possible in order to send a message that demons should not try to harm the baby. To their surprise, a prophetic demon called a Crone informed them that a law would be passed to prevent any further attempts to harm the baby because a war over the child would be detrimental rather than beneficial to evil. While Piper believed the Crone to an extent, the idea that her child had caused such fear in the demonic community troubled her somewhat. When it came time to name him, Piper and Leo encountered difficulties because throughout Piper's pregnancy they had both assumed that she was having a girl. Leo agreed with Piper that the baby's last name should be Halliwell because of the name's magical significance. Piper eventually thought of the idea of giving him the first name of Wyatt to honor Leo and the middle name of Matthew to honor Paige, after she risked her life to save her nephew from bounty hunters. Wyatt has been coming very quickly into his powers and the sisters have received an impressions of his full capabilities when he grows older. He created a dragon, which caused a group of magical beings called the Cleaners to try to take him away from Piper, but she managed to persuade them to leave Wyatt with her. He is also the being destined to wield the powerful sword Excalibur, but Piper is trying to keep him away from the sword until he is older.

Grams - After their mother's death, Penny—more fondly known as Grams—raised Piper, Prue and Phoebe after their mothers death. Like Prue, Grams had the power of telekinesis and was very skilled at her craft. She credits herself with writing all of the "good" spells in the Book of Shadows. Grams was responsible for binding the sisters' powers when they were children after their mother was tricked by a warlock who exchanged Patty's life for immunity against the sisters' powers. When she died of a heart condition, her death was what triggered the sisters' powers being unbound, leading them to discover their destiny.

Patty Halliwell - Mother of the Charmed Ones, Patty, like Piper, had the power to freeze. When her relationship with her husband, Victor, ended badly because of disagreements about magic, Patty had a forbidden affair with her Whitelighter, Sam, which resulted in Paige being born. Patty died an early death fighting a water demon.

Kevin - Kevin is a young witch with the ability to make drawings or thoughts come to life. He was chosen to be an Elder.

P. Russell - This Warren ancestor—Phoebe's soul in a past life—lived during the twenties, operating a small business selling love potions and telling futures at a speakeasy she owned with her two cousins, and her power was throwing fire. A powerful warlock named Anton seduced her and convinced her to help him kill her cousins so that he might obtain their powers. Her cousins learned of their plan and killed her, but not before cursing her so that she and Anton, who was immortal, would never join forces in any lifetime.

P. Baxter - One of Piper's past lives, this witch also had a similar power: she could slow time, but not stop it. She owned a speakeasy in the twenties with her cousins, taking responsibility for obtaining the liquor for the establishment. Her husband also worked in the speakeasy, playing piano.

P. Bowen - This witch had the power to freeze, literally, and was one of Prue's past lives. During the twenties, she ran a speakeasy with her cousins and was a photographer.

Tuatha - Tuatha was a former good witch that used dark magic to become evil. She was released and killed five humans. She used her serpent to find her lost wand that was in the hands of the CHarmed Ones. Kyle, the chosen one, used her wand to destroy Tuatha.

Warlocks & Demons

Warlocks - Warlocks are evil magical humans who have the ability of absorption. Their only drive is to kill a witch and gain the witch's power. Warlocks are those that break the Wiccan rede.

Jeremy Burns - A warlock who dated Piper and tried to get close to her to steal her powers. His known power is absorption.

Rex Buckland and Hannah Webster - These two demonic warlocks are humanly agents of the Source of All Evil. They assumed identities of two workers of Buckland's Auction House and managed to watch over the activities of the Charmed Ones. Assigned to steal their powers, these two sent other lower agents to attack and destroy the Charmed Ones. Rex has the ability of astral projection, mental suggestion, illusionist, and limited telepathy.

Matthew Tate - A 17th century warlock who has the ability to 'copy' the power of a good witch when it is used on him. After he has copied a power, it cannot be used against him. He betrayed the Halliwell's ancestor Melinda Warren to the Salem witchhunters, and because the warlock had stolen her love, she cursed him into the pewter heart (locket) where he would spend eternity knowing the sting of betrayal. The legend says that the warlock must never be freed, as he will destroy the Warren line.

Barbas - Barbas, the demon of fear, appears once every thirteen hundred years on Friday the thirteenth. He feeds on young witches for his survival. Entrapped in the Underworld, Barbas must kill thirteen unmarried witches before midnight so that he might be freed to wreak his havoc every day. He kills witches by making their worst fears come to pass and literally scaring them to death. Prue managed to defeat him by conquering her fear.While in Purgatory, Barbas gained the ability to astral project and used his new ability to plant thoughts in Cole's mind, making him fear his new powers. Eventually he managed to fuel Cole's fear enough that Cole stripped his powers and Barbas absorbed them, allowing Barbas to emerge from Purgatory permanently.

Woogy Man - A demonic fog that turns humans evil. For a witch, he gives them the power of materialization.The Woogyman is a demon in shadow form that has the power to possess his victims and infect them with evil. The Woogy seeks control of the nexus on which the manor sits, wanting to spread evil by gaining its power. Entombed in the earth below the manor, the demon is released during earthquakes.

Nicholas - Originally planning to kill the girls' mother, Patty, and steal her powers, a warlock named Nicholas inadvertently stumbled upon the fact that Patty was going to be the mother of the Charmed Ones. Nicholas tricked Patty and captured her, forcing her to bless a ring to give him immunity to the sisters' powers so that he might kill them without a fight. Patty then told her mother of what had happened, so Grams stripped the powers from the girls once Phoebe was born in order to protect them until she could undo the bond Patty had made with Nicholas. When Nicholas realized that the girls did not have their powers anymore, he devised a plan. He visited the manor the same day each year at the same time, waiting for the year when the sisters received their powers again. Nicholas possesses a very deadly power that he channels through his hands: overheating a person's blood until they die.

Grimlocks - Grimlocks are white demons with whirling red eyes. Underground demons, grimlocks roam from city to city killing powerful forces of good by seeing the unique auras that surround them, which they are able to do by stealing the eysight of innocent children. The stolen eyesight will last twenty-four hours, but only if the children are alive. After the children's eyesight has waned, the grimlocks consume them.To destroy a grimlock, gather a shisandra root and make a potion from it with which to blind the grimlock.

Tempus - The Devil's Sorcerer, Tempus is the manipulator of time, serving only his will always, always for evil's gain. To defeat Tempus, remove him from the time that he is in.

Rodriguez - This demon was sent to find and destroy the Charmed Ones and has the power to throw energy balls. He posed as an inspector in the San Francisco Police Department and tried to exploit Andy to get to the sisters.

Abraxas - A demon of the astral plane who destroys witches by demonizing their powers. He does this by transferring the witch's Book of Shadows to a parallel plane and then reads it backwards, undoing the magic they have done until he reaches the first page of the Book and removes the witch's powers and obtains them for himself.

Ardo Malorum - Commanding the demonic legions, these generals lead the war against the forces of good. To ascend in the unholy hierarchy they must capture and conquer those witches who protect the innocent and value good. The servants of these generals (also known as level two demons) can be identified by the weapons which they carry.

Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - Hand picked by the Source, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are the "Anointed Ones" and bear the mark of the omega, the end. War, Strife, Famine and Death each use their special powers for spreading loss and death in order to lead to the eventual destruction of the world. The horsemen are immune to all magic and only the Source can vanquish them. When a team of horsemen fails, the Source destroys them and picks a new team.

Triad - The Triad is a high-ranking group of demons who are responsible for organizing attacks on specific individuals. Usually, they assign lower-level demons to do the work for them.

Belthazor - Belthazor is the demonic side of Cole Turner. Both powerful and dangerous, this demonic Soldier of Fortune has destroyed countless witches, innocents and demons. As sinister as he is intelligent, he is not to be trusted. Belthazor's known abilities include throwing energy balls and shimmering place to place as well as a weak form of telekenesis and conjuring. Belthazor has a human form and, unlike most demons, he has a soul, which makes him a more powerful enemy because he understands humans better than most demons. His powers were stripped in early season 4. So he did not rule the underworld after the source was killed.

Bounty Hunters - Driven by greed, these heartless, low-level demons will stop at nothing to collect their bounty. They have the power to fire energy balls and/or lightning bolts and can materialize at will. Bounty hunters track down fugitive demons, but if the price is right they will go after anyone.

Brotherhood of the Thorn - The Brotherhood of the Thorn is a very exclusive niche of the demonic community. The members are handpicked by the Source and must take a blood oath upon admittance.

Darklighters - Darklighters are evil counterparts to whitelighters, and have similar orbing capabilities. They also possess the only means of killing whitelighters: crossbows that fire arrows tipped in a poison that is fatal to whitelighters. Different types of darklighters exist. One form attempts to spread evil through propagation by seducing young women and impregnating them with evil spawn. One form, known as spirit killers, track future whitelighters. By reading their thoughts and fears, the darklighters make these individuals feel responsible for everything unfortunate that may happen to a friend or loved one, driving them into despair and encouraging them to take their own life. By committing suicide, the individual is denied his or her future as a whitelighter after death. A Tracker is a breed of darklighter that targets whitelighters on the verge of losing their wings. Trackers' poisoned arrows are more potent and kill more quickly.

Evil Enchantress - This powerful enchantress lived many centuries ago and could control the elements. Defiant, clever and independent, she came into the craft late in life but learned to use it quickly. Using her dark magic, the enchantress cast a love spell on an unsuspecting prince in effort to trick the prince into marrying her so that she may rule his kingdom.

Source - The Source is the highest-ranking demon in the Underworld. He receives his powers through a coronation and is granted dominion over all demons in the Underworld. In order to remind his minions of his power and reach, all of them have the ability to sense him. The extent of his powers is unknown, but they are seemingly limitless.

Shax - The Source's personal assassin, Shax is a dangerous enemy. He has the ability to travel as a strong gust of wind. He kills his victims with very powerful energy blasts.

Seer - An upper-level demon, the Seer has been around for thousands of years. Because she has the power to see the future, she has gained great respect in the Underworld. In fact, she has served multiple Sources, all the while seeking the opportunity to gain ultimate power.

Necron - A skeletal being who hovers between life and death, Necron has the ability to incinerate any creature and feed on their life force. Be careful when pursuing him; the only two witches able to vanquish a skeletal being were incinerated in the process.

Bacarra - This warlock traveled back from the future and teamed up with his present self to use his knowledge of future magic to steal the Halliwells' Book of Shadows in order to rule the Underworld.

Cronyn - A sorceror, Cronyn learned of a prophecy from his mentor of a twice-blessed child that would be born on a special day when all magic would cease to exist in the world. He came to realize that Piper was carrying this twice-blessed child, and with the help of a female demon who called herseld Doris, he managed to isolate Piper while she was in labor, hoping to kidnap the child and raise it to be a powerful force for evil.

Crone - The Crone is a well known and respected advisor of evil whose ability to forsee the future makes her valuable. Heard of more than some she is an upper level demon who possesses upper level demonic powers. A upper level demonic vanquishing spell will kill her.

Stillman Sisters - Mabel, Mitzy and Margo. Common witches known for their small time hustles and cons. Not worth vanquishing. If they become a nuisance, try a simple spell to bind their magic.

Spider Demon - An evil creature that emerges from its hidden lair every hundred years to capture and feed off the most powerful magical being it can detect. This demon can spin webs, change from human to spider form at will, and infect its victims with a venom that turns them into spider demons as well.


Beings of Light

Brendan Rowe - Brendan is a half warlock and half mortal being. Resisting the evil Rowe Coven, he attempts to become a good warlock or become a priest. He became an ally of the Charmed Ones.

Charmed Ones - The Charmed Ones are witches of the Warren/Halliwell line that are destined to be good white witches, that would save the innocent and vanquish the evil; as in demons and warlocks.

Cupid - These messengers are responsible for bringing people together who have a chance at love. Many agents roam about the world using their powers to connect people. Their powers lie in a ring, which allows them to slow time and get between heartbeats where they can then plant thoughts of love. These beings are not responsible for all love, however. They are forbidden to make some connections, yet sometimes people manage to make such connections without any aid.

Elders - Elders are high whitelighters that govern all good magical beings. The Elders select future whitelighters and provide information and guidance to current ones. While whitelighters are supposed to help others, they follow a strict set of rules in doing so. The Elders take responsibility for ensuring that whitelighters follow these rules. When an Elder retires, he must pass his powers to another being, who then replaces him. An Elder can only pass on his powers at certain times, such as the equinoxes.

Familiars - Familiars are enchanted creatures that follow and guide new witches to protect them while they learn the craft. While they are often cats, other animals like dogs, rabbits, horses and snakes can be familiars as well. Familiars are naturally attuned to the seasons and phases of the moon and can be helpful in teaching the young witch a heightened awareness of her environment. Familiars who perform their job especially well are sometimes rewarded by being turned into humans, whose responsibility then becomes to take care of other familiars. However, a familiar may also betray its witch and become a warlock.

Gypsies - A cousin tradition to witchcraft, gypsies share many similarities with witches. While most gypsies do not have active powers, they perform spells and use potions. High priestesses of the gypsy tradition are called shuvanis, and they pool their power to ward off evil.

Kyle - Kyle is a young teen who was chosen as he was the seventh son of the seventh son. He was destined to help the Charmed Ones destroy Tuatha. He used Tuatha's wand to destroy her.

Leprechauns - Leprechauns hand out Luck, in the form of magical gold. They hand out both good and bad luck but are good creatures - bad luck helps people as much as good luck does. One helped free Paige when she was petryfied by a Titan.

Whitelighters - A person that does a great deal of good during his life may become a whitelighter after death. Whitelighters are sort of angelic creatures that watch over good people, both mortals and witches, and try to keep them from coming to harm. Whitelighters have the power to heal, hover and can travel by orbing. While whitelighters eat, sleep, and otherwise function like regular human beings, they cannot be mortally wounded. These wounds will magically heal themselves. The only way that a whitelighter may be killed is by a darklighter's arrow, which is tipped in a poison made specifically for that purpose. While the Elders can track whitelighters, if a whitelighter chooses to stop using his powers the Elder will be unable to track him. If a whitelighter is trying to disappear, only a blood relative can locate him again. If he chooses not to use his powers for a long period of time and the Elders can find no other way to locate him, eventually he will lose his whitelighter abilities.

Magical Beings

Angel of Death - The Angel of Death is a being that is neither good nor evil and has the responsibility of collecting souls and carrying them into the afterlife. Death is not something that can be fought or stopped — the Angel of Death never gives up on a claim.

Angels of Destiny - Angels of Destiny are beings with tremendous amounts of power. They can halt time as well as alter reality. They rarely directly intervene in anyone's destiny, except in extraordinary circumstances.

The Avatars - Very little is known about these creatures. They are extremely powerful beings that exist outside of time and space, and they do not conform to either good or evil.

Cleaners - These beings are responsible for protecting magic. If magic, good or evil, becomes exposed, the Cleaners are responsible for covering up the exposure, cleaning up the mess and erasing memories of the event when needed.

Elves - Elves are small magical creatures that have innate childcaring skills, which their powers reflect.

Fairies and Trolls - Fairies and trolls are mystical creatures that live in a realm parallel to ours but separated by a thin veil. The veil becomes lifted in "tween" places, such as doorways or shadows. At midnight, the time between night and day the entire world becomes a "tween". In their realm, the fairies have dominion over the trolls, which the trolls greatly dislike. Fairies have a magical dust with which they can do many things, including turning people into fairies. Trolls have the ability to move very quickly.

Fairy Tales - Even though fairy tales are considered to be merely fictional fables intended to instruct small children, most fairy tales are recountings of ancient battles between good and evil that have been woven into allegorical stories. All modern copies of fairy tales are copies of an original, kept safe from evil by the Keeper of the Fairy Tales who was entrusted with the text centuries ago. The book as well as relics from which all power of fairy tales emanate are hidden in a remote magical fortress, whose location is kept secret from everyone, including the Elders.

The Firestarter - An extremely rare and coveted magical creature, usually a mortal, the power is linked to their emotions. It first manifests in adolescence with the onset of puberty. If subjugated while still impressionable they can be persuaded to use their powers for evil. Because of this, they are often trained to be bodyguards to the Source.

Gideon - One of the most powerful Elders, Gideon was entrusted with the position as headmaster of Magic School, an institution where young magical beings can learn about magic. While he originally pushed for the Elders to allow Piper and Leo to get married, once Wyatt was born, Gideon's attitude toward the couple changed drastically. He feared that all of the power that Wyatt possessed would cause him to turn and become an unstoppable threat. Gaining the sisters' confidence, Gideon used his position as a friend of family to get close to Wyatt but first hired a team of darklighters to get Leo out of the way. He conspired with his evil counterpart in a parallel dimension to distract both the good and evil Charmed Ones so that he might kill Wyatt. The sisters realized his plan in time and stopped him, but only temporarily. Conspiring with Barbas who used his powers to distract the sisters and Leo, Gideon managed to kidnap Wyatt, killing Chris in the process. Angered by his son's death, Leo tracked Gideon in the Underworld and killed him.

Ghosts - Ghosts are spirits of the dead who manage to cling in our world because of unfinished business from their life, usually avenging their unjust death. Neophyte ghosts are unable to grasp the physical plane, but in time ghosts can learn to move objects and even become corporeal. Some ghosts even have the ability to possess the living in order to complete the unfinished business from their lifetime.

Genies - Genies are Magical Beings that have the power to grant humans what they desire. Contained in bottles, genies are released after someone rubs the bottle and then will grant the person who rubbed the bottle three wishes. After granting three wishes, the genie becomes free from his bottle and loses his powers. Beware, genies are tricksters and they will do anything to be freed. While genies are not evil by nature and cannot harm someone unless he wishes for something, the wishes genies grant always come with some unforseen consequence. The only way to get rid of a genie without wishing is to put the genie back into his bottle. Doing this will reverse all of the wishes he granted.

The Hollow - Thirty-five hundred years ago the Hollow was unleashed on the world. The Hollow is a force that has the power to consume all magical powers, good or evil, and is impossible to destroy. While roaming the earth, the Hollow nearly decimated all magic and all things. Good and evil had to join forces and use their strongest magic just to confine the Hollow. Both sides then chose a representative to guard the burial ground where the Hollow was contained against all magical beings. If the Hollow is unleashed, the only way to stop it from destroying evil is for good and evil to read the inscription on the box in which the Hollow is stored. This act will reconfine the Hollow in its crypt.

Mermaids - Mermaids are immortal beings, half woman half fish, who live in the sea. They are cold-blooded and are fond of shiny baubles. They enjoy the freedom of the ocean, and hear nothing but the call of the sea. If a mortal falls in love with a mermaid and confesses his love to her, then the mermaid becomes mortal.

Mordaunt - A servant to Excalibur, Mordaunt is responsible for training those meant to control the power of the sword.

Mr. Right - This magical man can be conjured, made to the exact specifications to please the witch who created him. He is tied completely to his witch, feeling what she feels, needs, and wants and only those things.

Phoenix - Descended from the Witch Trials with vengeance in their hearts, the Phoenix are a family of assassin witches who are very elite and very powerful and who are born with a distinctive birthmark of the Phoenix symbolizing their rise from Salem's ashes. They have no allegiances other than to their own vengeance and they will seek out and kill any bounty they're hired to hunt down.

The Titans - These God-like beings were very powerful, and lived many centuries ago. Having power over the Earth and its natural forces, soon they became corrupt with power and began abusing the control they held over the earth. In order to stop their tyrannical rule, the Elders imbued some mortals with a tremendous amount of power and they were able to entomb but not defeat the Titans.

Valkyries - A powerful race of demigoddesses who scout the battle grounds for dying warriors, then take their souls to Valhalla where they prepare them for the final world battle.Though fierce in their nature, Valkyries are not evil. They remain secluded in Valhalla and do not attack other beings unless they feel the secret of their location has been threatened. Like witches, they aim to protect the innocent.

Witch Doctors - Little is known of witch doctors except for their dedication to expel evil sprits from demonic footholds. Using strange unknown magic rituals, witch doctors feel their status as watch dogs of evil gives them the freedom to attack evil in all its shifting guises. While witch doctors are not evil, they are not well-trusted because of their tendency to rely on their own definitions of evil and have used their magic to harm good beings in the past. Witch doctors have the power to place hexes on people using personal objects, turning their current fixations into obsessions, which leads to self-destructive behaviour.

Witches - Magical humans that learn and practice the craft of white magic as they use their abilities to vanquish evil beings.

Wizards - Wizards are another race of magical humans that can use their magical powers to do good or for evil. One wizard had tricked the Charmed Ones to steal the Grimoire.

Other Information

Athame - An athame is a ceremonial tool, a double-edged knife that witches use to direct energy.

On the Place of Magic In The Rearing of a Child - A child is the frailest and most innocent of all innocents. It is therefore unlawful and unnatural to use magic to change what is in the nature of a child. Before casting a spell that affects a child, the witch must ask herself, "am I doing this for the child or am I doing this for myself?"

Book of Shadows - The Book of Shadows is a book of many spells, potions, and information about demons and magical beings. It is protected from evil and no evil being can handle it. It is a family heirloom to the Charmed line, and cannot be taken from the Manor by someone who isn't of that line. It is the Good counterpart of the Grimoire.

The Demonic Wasteland - When demons are vanquished, they are sent to the demonic wasteland where their bodies are destroyed and their powers are left to be devoured by the beast that inhabits the wasteland.

Excalibur - The sword Excalibur is a weapon of great power and makes anyone who wields it unstoppable. Only a chosen few are destined to wield Excalibur and only they may use the sword without becoming corrupt with its power.

Free Will - The Rule of Free Will is a period of 48 hours after a witch comes into her powers, during which time, she can be turned to Evil if she decides to use her powers for Evil. Whilst a witch can become Evil at any time by repeated misuse of her powers, it only takes a single act during Free Will to make a permanent change to Evil.

The Grimoire - The Grimoire is an important tome for Evil and it has the ability to protect itself from good. It contains the instructions for all of Evil's most important ceremonies. It is the Evil counterpart of the Book of Shadows.

Handfasting - Handfasting is the eternal bonding of two people in love. It is a sacred ceremony of commitment presided over by a high priestess. Best performed at a time of sunrise or sunset when both the sun and the moon are present in the joining of the two lovers.

Magic School - This institution is a school in which all kinds of good magical children can be nurtured and taught with peers who also have magical abilities. As the children grow they are taught to hone and develop their talents. An elder named Gideon acts as the school's headmaster. Magic School is protected by magic in that no one can be killed on the premises.

The Manor - The Manor is where the Charmed line live. The house has been in the Halliwell family for generations and is placed directly above a Nexus.

Nexus - A Nexus is a point of power that is equal distance from each of the 5 spiritual elements, Wood, Earth, Fire, Water and Metal. This power can be harnessed for both Good and Evil. The Nexus under the Halliwell Manor is inhabited by something known as the Shadow (also known as the Woogy Man, see above), which has the power to corrupt anyone who has contact with it. It can be banished by summoning it's counterpart energy that also inhabits the Nexus.

Parallel World - In a universe designed to maintain a balance, worlds that parallel each other must exist. In order for a world in which good prevails, an equally evil world must also exist. These worlds mirror each other—whatever happens in one must happen in the other and whoever exists in one world exists in another only their morality is reversed. Whitelighters in this world are darklighters in the parallel world, etc. If these worlds intersect, the balance can be thrown off. If too much good is done in the world dominated by evil, then a great act of evil must be perpetrated in the other world to realign the balance, or vice versa.

Tribunal - A council made up of both Elders and Demons, the Tribunal monitors magic to keep people from ever finding out about its use, whatever the cost.

Wiccan Rede - Witches must follow a code called The Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do what ye will." If a witch breaks this rede and uses her magic to harm others, she will cross over to the dark side and become a warlock, whose only goal is to kill good witch and obtain their powers. This archive page covers approximately the dates between 19 Jun 2005 and 28 Nov 2005.

Post replies to the main talk page, copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary.

Please add new archivals to Talk:Charmed/Archive 3. (See Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.) Thank you. AdamDobay 17:48, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Merging sub-topics

I've started the process of merging the pages notated as such, but it is creating a huge page. Instead i propose merging the character pages with the 'list of good/bad' pages, so that the information is still together, but doesn't clutter up the main page too much --Jenblower 18:38, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Added a request for a cleanup - there's lots of content here, but a bit disorganized, and sometimes poorly worded. I'd try to do it myself, but I confess to have zero knowledge of the show and I'm afraid I'd edit something out that would turn out to be important. Kudos to all the folk who have been working on this though, since this article is huge! Peruvianllama 17:34, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Splitting information off from Main page

I'd like to suggest that all of the various character bios should be split off the main page onto seperate sections. The main page as it is, is just far too difficult to read it's so huge. Most of the characters (the mains at least) already have seperate pages with information on them, so anything on the main page is just duplication anyway. The minor characters could also be split off into a page for each section (ie: one page for all familial relations) which would allow the section on each family member to be further expanded without threatening to make the main page even longer still. Maelwys 05:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I started by giving the Locations a new article, similarly to the other Charmed lists. AdamDobay 17:56, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Why Charmed is so important

I recently posted on my user page a commentary about Charmed. You can add your thoughts to what I have written.--Tjkphilosofe 08:35, 28 November 2005 (UTC) This archive page covers approximately the dates between 02 Jan 2006 and 22 Jan 2006.

Post replies to the main talk page, copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary.

Please add new archivals to Talk:Charmed/Archive 4. (See Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.) Thank you. AdamDobay AdamDobay 09:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

2006 January discussions

I've thought I'll open this heading for general changes in the article to keep it more organized than it is. AdamDobay 23:16, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I have edited the External links section, removing a number of links to non-official websites some of which were put up because it's "super" or "large". Having visited at least a few dozen of such websites, I think that only official sites should be listed here from now on, because there are larger and smaller Charmed websites on the internet and there is no consensus as to which would be better or worse. Thus I think that visitors to this article should only be pointed to official websites. AdamDobay 17:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if we should bring out to visible status what I had put in HTML comment about posting other links than official websites. (By the way I'm still around but I have my exam period now which lessens my time for working on the 'pedia.) AdamDobay 15:14, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Removing unsupported claims

  • I've removed the references to Buffy the Vampire Slayer in the last section, as the phrase "Oh my Goddess" was not invented by the show Charmed but is a general exclamation, especially for those (like Willow) who are (fictional or non-fictional) Goddess-believers, and thus the phrase is not taken from there. Furthermore, the capability of getting to know things about the future isn't something unique that only the creators of Charmed thought up, and there are absolutely no similarities between the concept of Phoebe's premonitions and the dreaming of the next day as carried out by Tru in Tru calling. Not to mention that Cordelia's power is again, entirely different from that of Phoebe, and even if they were similar it would not be very wise to draw the conclusion that Joss Whedon got it from Charmed as there is nothing to support that. AdamDobay 23:17, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Removed, among others, a claim that Hecate may be the mother of Cole. I do not know where this hypothesis came from, but apart from the fact that it was never even hinted, it is impossible as there were even flashbacks of Cole's mother, who is clearly not Hecate. AdamDobay 00:23, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Removed the text "Charmed is confirmed until 11th season". There is no confirmation from any official source for this, especially from The WB. In itself a pick-up beyond one season with a show running for more than seven years is highly improbable, it is even rare in case of new shows. On this basis I have also removed speculation on Season 7 DVD release. AdamDobay 21:27, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Bio condensing

  • Can someone condense the last paragraph in Piper's bio thing (about Leo and how their love will be tested), it's a (confusing) summary of a few episodes (I think), and is about the same length as the summary for 4 seasons previously! I would do it, but I've not seen season 8 (which may be why it's confusing to me, although language seems a bit off too), but it seems too detailed? Also reverted some changes re Cole and Barbas, were poorly written imo Sadisticality 12:56, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I've been wanting to do that but I've been sort of mesmerised with the completely irrelevant, unacademic content that gets uploaded every day. So much for an entry on a show with many unprofessional fans. AdamDobay 17:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I've corrected Piper's story for the eighth season as well. I wonder if all the character bio's should be removed to their respective pages, as well as the lists of minor characters. The article is still extremely long.
  • I agree wholeheartedly, I've wanted to do that for a while though there seemed to be some resistance to the idea up above. I'd already started the process by moving the spells off to their own page, but would love to see the same happen for the characters. For the characters, all that needs to be on the main page is something like. "Phoebe Halliwell is played by Alyssa Milano. Pheobe is the youngest of the original 3 sisters, and her powers have included premonition and levitation. Because her powers are generally passive, she's also learned how to be a capable fighter." Basically, just a brief introduction, and the rest of the details can go on the characters own page. Maelwys 17:53, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree with you both about moving the bio's, would cut down article length, and probably (just from a quick look at Phoebe's bio compared to her info on the main page) improve the other articles, at the moment it just looks like someone's written a sentence about what happened to her in every episode nearly. Sadisticality 20:23, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Things to do-discussion

  • I've reverted to the version before the infobox was made into garbled code on the page. I also removed the double spoiler tag in the beginning. AdamDobay 22:59, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
In reply to Maelwys and Sadisticality, I think the first thing to do would be to move the whole evil characters sub-section (that seems to be the largest) to List of Charmed evil beings, though first that would have to be sorted out, at least grouped into more and less important evil characters, as it is quite a mess. I have no energy to do that now, but if anyone could start synchronizing the two pages, it would be much help.
Also, I propose the "Main enemies per season" bit to be removed, as it's not more than trying very hard to prove the existence of an overall story system and also to say that Charmed is better than Buffy. Rodriguez and the Titans for example only appeared in two episodes each. The only enemies that would actually fit the category for prominently being in the show for more than half a story-arch (which is six to twelve episodes) would be Rex & Hannah, the Triad, Belthazor, The Source, Gideon, the Avatars and Zankou. That's seven out of fourteen, there goes the theory that there are two main enemies per season. :)
I would also like to propose some kind of policy for this page and the whole Charmed category now we are at that. It is no good that on these pages, which are all extremely long, everyone adds 5k of info about their favourite episode, character, or demon regardless of their importance. Can we put the tag out for the time being that says "Before adding, consult the talk page"? AdamDobay 22:57, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree with removing the "Main enemies per season" bit, they could be mentioned just in the List of Charmed evil beings, and also in the Charmed Season Summaries if someone were to add to the summaries. I would happily do that if someone would buy me all of the DVD's, however until then, I definitely don't remember what happened well enough to summarise seasons! Also some of the enemies are definitely over info'd, the paragraph on vampires (appeared in 2 episodes) is about as long as the paragraph on the Source (a recurring theme). But I agree with your proposals. Sadisticality 23:31, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I'll also agree to removing the "Main Enemies per season" stuff. I'd prefer to sort them by in-show status, as opposed to "meta-show" status. So having one section for "Evil Masterminds" and another for "Henchmen" would perhaps make a lot more sense (though even that is somewhat random) Maelwys 00:41, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
I think a plausible solution would be to sort the importance of evil characters by two factors: amount of presence in the show (circa number of episodes) and long-term impact on the show's world or in the characters. That way, random monsters who appeared once or did one thing that had temporary impact (like changing a character into something, which reverted by the end of the episode) wouldn't have an importance, while a demon who only had two episodes but killed a major character (ie. Shax who killed Prue) would be in the main list. This may also be a good organizational logic for good beings. I can help give a list of major beings based on this system if you like and then you (or someone) can sort the actual paragraphs into place. AdamDobay 01:04, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Not to boast, really, but as I'm one of the editors of one of largest Charmed websites in Europe, as an occupational hazard I have quite an in-depth knowledge on most information about the show, so once I have much time, I can do season summaries. I'm planning to write those to the website in question so I'll just go and translate them to English when I do. AdamDobay 00:20, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
  • When we're done with moving character bios to their respective pages, should the DVD information be split off too? It seems a bit large as well. AdamDobay 12:11, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I've compressed the DVD information from the current long list, into a much more readable (and more compressed) table format. I think that in this format it should be okay to stay on the main page, as it doesn't take up that much room and is useful as part of the overview of the show. Maelwys 15:44, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Looks great. Thanks. Another question: While I'm sure minor characters should get packed into one entry, but I don't know, should characters like Leo, Darryl, Cole, Andy, Dan and Jenny, Chris and Billie be put in one entry (like a List of Charmed supporting characters) or should they each have their own entries? AdamDobay 17:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm thinking that for the main page, we should have a section on "Main Cast" that includes a couple lines on each of the 4 sisters, with links to each character and actor page. Then a section on "Supporting Cast" that includes the same thing for those you listed above (with each of them getting their own detail page... most of them are major enough characters to deserve it, and most already have one). The section currently below that (Recurring Guest Roles) should be removed completely to a different page, same way that the evil characters were. Maelwys 17:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I've created a new link template to include at the bottom of Charmed pages, allowing us to cross-link them much more easily. You can add it the other pages with {{Charmed}}. I've replaced the previous "See Also" section with the template on the main page. I'd also consider removing the Enemies and Locations sections, so we don't end up with a whole lot of "See this link" sections in the finished product... what do you think of doing that? Maelwys 14:48, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I've now added the template to all the major pages (those linked from the template). In doing so I also noticed that there was some discrepency among the categories of the various pages, so I've started to clean those up to (and will continue to do so). In examining the categories, I also noticed that there's some overlap between articles (one thing leads to another, doesn't it? hehe). For example: Darklighters (Charmed) and Darklighter. Also Chris Perry and Chris Halliwell. I vote the Darklighters be merged into the first article (which is what I linked the template to). For the Chris articles... I'm not sure which way makes more sense (since we knew him first as Perry, but more properly his name is Halliwell). Any suggestions? Maelwys 15:12, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
  • New thing to do: Could somebody write up something for the Charmed Ones entry? Right now it just redirects back to the Charmed main page, but I think it could be worthwhile to put something there, explaining the significance of the name, their joint place in history, etc (with links to the 4 individuals of course, not too much personal information on them seperately, just about them together). Maelwys 15:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I've just finished doing a complete rewrite/reformat of [[Prudence Halliwell|Prue]'s page. I figured it'd be the shortest, and least likely to change from this point forward, so made a good test bed. ;-) If anybody could let me know what they think of the new format, it'd be great. I figured breaking down their lives into Romantic, Professional, and Charmed categories made the most sense, since those are the three things that they're always trying hard to juggle between. If it goes over well, I'll work on converting the other 3 into the same setup, instead of the ugly point form we've got now. Also, I included into Prue's page all the information currently contained on the main Charmed page, so once we're ready to shrink that it can be deleted from the main page without any other copying. I just figured it'd look silly to have only her entry shrink, when the other 3 aren't ready yet. Maelwys 22:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
The three categories were a great idea, Maelwys, I greatly approve of it. More in the article's discussion itself.
  • I'm a novice Wiki guy and was wondering if someone more experienced than myself could help me out with a Charmed matter. It seems that there are two Darklighter pages. The more proper page is Darklighters (Charmed) and the less developed page is Darklighter. Is there any way someone can somehow have a re-direct feature on the Darklighter page to automatically go toward the Darklighters (Charmed) page? Any help offered would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Artemisboy 22:36, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Longest running female-lead show?

I've heard the version that Charmed is now the longest running female-lead show, but is it really? It now surpasses Laverne and Shirley in no. of episodes, but I've heard counterarguments that Murder She Wrote is the longest-running female lead show because it ran for several more years than any of these. Any ideas on how this is calculated? AdamDobay 01:36, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Recent interview with show exec. producer Brad Kern in TVGuide [1], the question is cleared up. As Kern put it, I kept pressing the publicity people, saying, "Are we sure we're right about this?" because wasn't Murder, She Wrote on for, like, 12 years? They said, "No, no, this is for female leads, plural." AdamDobay 09:23, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Credits Section

Do we really need a complete listing of the fine print closing credits on the main page? It seems to take up a lot of space, and any of the information there that people would actually find useful is already included elsewhere on the page. Maelwys 20:05, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

One: It seems to be a direct copy from somewhere. Two: completely unnecessary. This is a page for general information. Who wants to know the second assistant make-up artist can look it up on IMDB, and what Spelling Entertainment is can be gotten from its own article. AdamDobay 20:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Photos

Do all the supporting cast really need photos on the main page? Wouldn't photo's in their individual articles be enough? Plus the photo of the actor playing Dan Gordon that's up at the time I'm writing this bears no resemblance to the character, I don't think, so it's just a shot of the actor, not the actor as the character Sadisticality 15:08, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, Dan's picture should definitely be changed to one of the character (and Cole's too now that we're at that). But otherwise, I'm pro for attaching pictures to the characters, that gives a little flavour for the raw text, although I still agree these are too large. AdamDobay 16:49, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Rumours uprise

Considering the amount of rumours appearing on the internet regarding Charmed, an uprise in rumour inclusion in the article can be expected in the following weeks and months. I'll just quickly include some of the rumours here, each of which is either based on obscure, ambiguous statements from cast and crew members, or just simply based on fan speculation.

  • Alyssa Milano will not appear in Season 9 (based on a recent Charmed Magazine interview she had said she wanted a break after Charmed -- but didn't state whether she would leave)
  • Rose McGowan will not appear in Season 9 (in an interview she said she is contracted for eight years)
  • Charmed is not getting a Season 9 (speculations from dropping ratings, budget cuts or the above rumours)
  • Charmed is getting a Season 9 (speculations based on David Janollari, WB president of entertainment saying something along the lines of Charmed possibly having the legs to run a bit more)

Nothing has officially been announced, so if any of the rumours above pop up, even if in a manner that looks to have background, feel free to delete it. It was hinted by Janollari (so this is also a rumour :) that we will not know about the show's future until around May. AdamDobay 09:20, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why Dan and Cole shouldn't have pictures up, they were/are a big part of the show. Also, the show runs in syndication with all of the old episodes, so to many people, they are still on the show. This archive page covers approximately the dates between 29 Jan 2006 and 22 Mar 2006.

2006 February discussions

Twice blessed child

Wyatt is refered to as the twice blessed child by the demons at several points and in one prophecy, some people question if this is not due to the potion in the form of chocolates given to piper accidentaly by cole when he was trying to get pheobe to concieve an evil child. The birth was blessed by the elders by allowing piper and leo to marry and by the Source of all evil (cole) by helping wyatt being concieved with the potion/chocolates when the doctors told piper she could not. Hence the term "Twice blessed child" and the awesome scope of Wyatts powers.

Im wondering if this is worth mentioning there is only speculation towards it and it might fall under original research but if we mention it as a fan theory would it fit? --Seth Turner 18:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC) (i am also going to place this in Wyatt Halliwell discussion.

-Mark-
I thought twice blessed child was because Wyatt's mother was a charmed one and when Wyatt was conceived his father had been an elder (or was he just a whitelighter?). But also another question has arisen based on this assumption. It is the question of if Paige also is a twice blessed one? However, Paige's mother was just a witch (though coming from a great heritage of witches), and her father was just a regular whitelighter, and not a promoted one, such as an elder.
No because Leo wasn't an elder at the time, he was just a wightlighter he became an elder way after the conception and birth of Wyatt. The blessing from good was that the elders permitted the marage of Leo and Piper and by proxy any children they might have. Paige was not born with the concent of the Elders so didnt recieve the blessing also Holy Matrimony is stated to have effects on the power of children born in multiple occasions, if Cole were married to Pheobe in such a ceremony then their child would not be pure evil. This constitutes blessing from good and the potion from Cole constitues blessing from evil. In charmed mythology magic is at its strongest when good and evil agree/work together resulting in Wyatt who is undoubtable the strongest creature in charmed mythology. --Seth Turner 12:58, 7 February 2006 (UTC) (Yes i read too much into these things but fancruft has its place)


-Amanda-

As far as my understanding, specifically from that episode when he was born, Wyatt is twice blessed because he is the child of a Charmed One and becuase he was born during the big astrological even of the time (I think the planets were specially alligned or something)


-Anon-

And, if you watch the show, some demons mention that there is a prophesy stating that the first child born from a charmed will inheret the greatest powers of the line. It would have been Phoebe's baby had the seer not stolen it and died. But instead it fell upon wyatt. I'm just saying that there was a small mention in the show about great power coming to the first born of a charmed one.

Dropped the editorial from the beginning

Text consisted of: " This show is incredibly stupid and makes a mockery of Wicca and other forms of Witchcraft and Paganism. Aaron Spelling should be sued for making such a rediculous show with such rediculous views on Witchcraft. This goes right up there with The Craft. If you have any respect for Witches, Wiccans, Shamans, or any other Pagan religions, you'd stop watching this stupid show.

Thank you."

Didn't strike me as particularly unbiased or productive...

A note on Charmed and Wicca, for future reference: Charmed has not mentioned Wicca as an organized religion since the first episode of season two, and has never really had anything to do with it in the first place, as there was only a limited number of references to the term which did not go beyond the word being said out loud. The word "Wiccan" as an adjective to "Wiccan duties" has been used about two times since season two, and has not been used since season five. The term "Wiccaning" was used two times, without any religious connotation. No form of Paganism has ever been mentioned in the series, and the creators have never ever proposed any link made between the world of Charmed and any real-life religion or lifestyle.
To sum up, there may be need for mention of the above facts to clarify that Charmed has next to nothing to do with Wicca. Otherwise, I have, in my four year acquaintance with the topic, have seen not more than three of four claims against Charmed from Wiccan or Pagan circles, so this might not even be a problem worth mentioning. AdamDobay 18:22, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

They do use the term 'wiccan' and definatly have since after season 2. example- 'my wiccan duties' which pheobe said when she was married to Cole.

Yes, but without religious connotation. Wiccan was, what I understand from the context, simply used as an adjective for 'witch', not as 'a practitioner of the Wiccan religion' as there's been no mention of the religion since season 2. AdamDobay 22:54, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

What about the Wiccaning ceremony for Wyatt, and the marriage of Leo and Piper, both of which were conducted by Grams in her capacity as Wiccan High Priestess? Don't these have religious or pseudo-religious connotations of some kind? I don't know much about the Wiccan religion itself, and the show certainly doesn't talk about it much, but at these points the Wiccan religion certainly seems to be involved. Walton monarchist89 12:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Adrian nonsense

Just a note, if anything in the future arises about this Adrian Hickman character, feel free to delete it without hesitation. There is no such character in the show, there has not been one, and there will not be such a character in season eight. Someone keeps spamming this article, unfortunately. AdamDobay 17:48, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I've watched every Charmed series since Season 1 and I've never heard of Adrian Hickman either. He certainly isn't a character in the show. Maybe he's one of the guest stars, producers etc., or a character from a different show, and someone got confused. Walton monarchist89 12:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

  • There's a way to answer such questions: look up the name in the IMDb; it turns out there is no Adrian Hickman, neither character on Charmed [[2]] nor real life [[3]], nor a suggested similar name connected with the series. Fastifex 08:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Your Vote for Image:CharmedHollyMarieCombs.jpg

Hello. If you could take a moment to express your opinion if the photo Image:CharmedHollyMarieCombs.jpg should remain on the Wikipedia site or not, I would be very appreciative. This is the photo presently on the main Charmed page under the Piper paragraph. You can give your opinion on that page's talk page. There seems to be some question as to its right to be on the site. Thank you. Artemisboy 01:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

2006 March discussions

Licensing

I don't know if it should go under Licenses or not, but shouldn't there be a mention of Charmed books and other merchandise beyond the DVDs? (at the very least I would expect some info on the books and a possible brief mention of other materials licensed.

  • I'm wondering if the DVD information should be split off from the main page as well, forming an article with the rest of the Charmed merchandise: Charmed Magazine, Charmed books, Soundtracks and Charmed dolls. AdamDobay 16:50, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Charmed Template

I've been thinking that with the Charmed Template being added to every page (including the episode pages) it should be altered to take up a little less space on the page (height-wise). I've worked up an alternate look for it, check it out User:Maelwys/Charmed Draft and let me know what you think.

Maelwys 20:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


Hi there Maelwys, I think that your template version is though space-conserving, it is much more complex to understand. When I look at any item I have to cross-check it with the category at the left to see what I'm looking at, it's a bit blurry for me thus. I do not know what would be a better option, but I'll keep thinking. AdamDobay 19:15, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Do we really need the ratings?

I think ratings should either be moved to a separate article or just simply deleted. They do not really give any general information on the show as this article is intended to give, and by being so it just takes space and makes the article much more of a box of randomness like how it was some months ago. Opinions? AdamDobay 19:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I tend to think not. If anywhere, they can maybe get added as a line into each episode synopsis (with the other production information at the top). But even then, I don't see much worth in having them there. Maelwys 19:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I'll just remove them then, and if anyone will need it they can look them up in the history or anywhere. Or should we do a List of Charmed ratings? AdamDobay 20:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Well, now we seem to have even more ratings there so I think it's even more important to get rid of them, as they're starting to take over the entire main page very quickly. I still don't think they're important enough to warrant their own page, and would rather just see them included on the template for each episode summary... but I guess if other people think it's important to be able to compare them (to see how the popularity has risen or fallen over the years) we can make them a page of their own as you propose. Maelwys 01:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually, until someone moved it and stuff, I was the source of the ratings. I got them from www.charmed-streetteam.org and posted them here. Hoped I didnt cause any inconveniace. I posted the ratings for ALL of the seasons except S2 and S6, although for one episode, I added a rating cuz it was on CST. Note that it has already been moved to List of Charmed episodes, and it has also been added to the chart. :) If I find more ratings, I will add them!.

Charmed template image

The image shown above the show's description is great and all, but it's way too big in file size, especially when you view the source file of it. It's too big for dial-up users, and seems to load slowly from Wikipedia anyway, seeing as I'm on broadband, and it loaded very slowly. I think a better (static) picture should be found to replace it. BenoitRen 18:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

There was a static picture before, I wonder where it's gone. AdamDobay 22:54, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Removal of 'Criticism'

I have removed the section 'Criticism' posted by an unregistered person. My reason for the removal was the fact that the person was basically picking out random ranting from fan forums regarding the show's possible problems (which may or may not exist as these are only very weak opinions on all sides), as well as pushing the aggressive type of "Anti-Milano" POV found in some fan circles. I think that biasedly representing either side the Milano versus Doherty debate from which this stems is not really suitable for an encyclopaedia. AdamDobay 23:04, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I posted what I've found, and its not strongly "Anti-Milano" (the opinions are much worse). As for the show's lack of continuity. See for yourself:

  • Originally, evil beings could touch the BOS. Then they are unable and by Zankou they are able once again.
  • Cleaners must cover up exposure of magic, yet we have Season 3 finale.
  • Paige was alongside her sisters the three times the Source was vanquished, yet when the Source was recently resurrected, Paige asked Phoebe and Piper how did they vanquished the Source.
  • In "Morality Bites", the girls learn to protect the innocent instead of punishing the guilty (killing "evil" mortals). Yet by Hyde School Reunion they morph Phoebe's ex so he gets killed, instead of doing something that would've not resulted in the guy's death. --Gonzalo84 00:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


First of all, I did not state that there were no continutity mistakes. I myself know about a hundred continuity mistakes as I've collected them at one time. As you can read in my original reason for removal, I removed the section because they are one-sided, and overemphasized opinions. Some of the most often referred-to items, as the one with the Cleaners, for example, are not established as continuity errors but are debated topics (as there are an equal amount of fans claiming that there is no indication that the Cleaners have always existed, so it may be said that they did not exist at the time of Season 3, some opinions even going so far as the Cleaners probably being established exactly after the Prue Halliwell-case). Also, blaming the whole thing on one person, Brad Kern, is again a common but false generalization that Brad Kern from the crew of two hundred is responsible for everything you see in an episode. Anyone with little knowledge of how television and film production works can tell you that this is not a credible opinion. So sure, there are continuity mistakes stemming from the executive producer change and the coming and going of writers, but are they so important and so dominant from the point of view of the show that they need to be prominently featured in an Encyclopaedia? Not in the way it was included previously.
Secondly, what you had posted in your second paragraph is also massively one-sided, emphasizing criticism only against Alyssa Milano. Through my profession I am familiar with a large number of Charmed fan forums internationally and I can say that I have come across those opinions - about two or three times compared to the other hundred. Has there been a large-scale fan debate between fans of Alyssa Milano and Shannen Doherty on the topic of Doherty's leaving the show, the only aspect of Charmed prominently featured in Charmed-related press appearances? Yes, the "Who should have been fired" topic even today that is a common flame war starter among many U.S. fans. Is the losing of weight of Alyssa Milano constantly referred to, by fans and in press? No. Why then should it be uniquely featured at the top of an Encyclopaedia article?
As a final note, Television Without Pity is known for its sarcastic approach, its deliberate scorning of shows and its method of only focusing on the negative side. The style of TWoP is exactly the form of POV that should not be repeated on Wikipedia.
So in conclusion, some aspect of what you have written as criticism may be worth for inclusion in the article but, in my opinion, not in the way and not in the style you have included it in. If it is held up that fan debating should appear in the article, so be it, but not in the nitpicking way and the style. AdamDobay 09:39, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I thought up how to do this: under a general "Changes" section there could be a list of all major changes to story, cast, and crew, with references to fan criticism stemming from these changes. I have this all sorted out in my mind so please wait a few hours for me to be able to come back and write it up. AdamDobay 10:26, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

While sarcastic, TWoP doesn't just focus on the negative. They give due credit, for instant, Holly Marie Combs acting and details like Bizarro Gideon. As for criticism on only Alyssa, Leo is critized for being ugly and a fool, so I didn't think it deserved a place in the article, neither Rose McGowan's "bad acting", since this criticism doesn't come from an acting coach, director or critic.--Gonzalo84 03:48, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Then on this basis why does Alyssa need criticism on her weight to be in an encyclopaedia article? I still don't get it. AdamDobay 09:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I could also point a pro-Charmed bias with the "amazing ratings". First, no source, second, the ratings have been dropping since season 6 at least, but I have no source, so i didn't post it.--Gonzalo84 03:48, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

International ratings are not a pro-Charmed bias, as Charmed is better abroad than in the U.S. In Great Britain it remains the best rated show in its timeslot (you can't say that in the U.S.), and even in countries like Hungary, it reached ratings as 20-25% in its peak period. I'll go get you references. AdamDobay 09:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I was talking about refering to the rating as "amazing". Say big, whatever, just point out at what time the ratings were great. I don't doubt that during the show's peak (Seasons 3 and 4) it had good ratings. And to say ratings are better than in the US is also not an exact reference since the show's ratings went on a downslide that caused the budget cuts (a show's budget depends on advertising, and advertisers mostly care about ratings).

I never referred to ratings as amazing, and especially not for US ratings. I only used the phrase "exceptionally high" and only for the case of non-US countries. That is a difference. In a number of countries, like I said and will document later (although public ratings that long back are hard to find, I have access to some of the exact ratings data but I cannot make that public as that data is owned by the channel that I have got the data from), Charmed has a much higher rating than other shows that have higher ratings than Charmed in the US, and not related to the show's current ratings in the US. For example the highest rated seasons in Hungary were five and six, which are already the downslide period in the US, and Season 8 in the UK is very strong despite the comparably low ratings in the US. AdamDobay 16:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Show Changes section started

Okay, I wrote up the notable changes I'm aware of. It is late and English is not my first language so please forgive me if I left any grammar mistakes or repeated words too often ('notably' and 'debate' comes to mind). I did not have time to look up the exact references, will add some for the Shannen Doherty departure (without quotes it's not really good). If you have comments or think something does not belong, I'm open for discussion. AdamDobay 22:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Beginning changes

I have removed Gonzalo's extension of the "most famous jump the shark moment" section for multiple reasons: 1. Constance M. Burge did not leave at the end of the third season, but after the second season, and continued to work as consultant until the end of the fourth season. 2. Burge's leaving is not the most famous jump the shark moment as it is evident to a much, much smaller group of people. Shannen Doherty's departure, on the contrary, got the most press in the history of the series. Also please consider replacement of another change by you Gonzalo, which is changing the phrase "surviving jump the shark moments" to "continuing despite etc.", as this phrase to me implies that the series should have stopped after these moments. With writing the word "surviving" I was trying to imply that the series has always kept its high, keeping its place as the, if I remember correctly, fifth most rated The WB show. As "surviving" may not be the best word I propose another, but better suiting and NPOV phrase. AdamDobay 23:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Kept its high? A show can jump the shark and still go on for years. Doesn't mean it survived.--Gonzalo84 02:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, that sentence is a bit garbled. I was trying to say that the show always kept a relatively high rating. The question is what do we mean by survival? I mean that despite the changes some have said to have been bad, the show been on, it hasn't really been struggling except for the renewal fiasco last year from the part of TheWB. AdamDobay 22:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

Do we really need all this trivia? Especially the much trivia added today and all of which I've seen exactly worded like this on another site already? I removed some which talked about subjects already in the article, I wonder what to do with the rest, it's pretty miscellaneous. AdamDobay 22:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Hi, Im an unregistered user, and Im the one that added the trivia for all that. If there is any problem, you can move it to the Charmed Trivia section at the bottom of the page. :)

Budget cuts

I removed the entry about Phoebe's levitation being taken out for budget reasons. As I've worked in the film industry for many years and have a bit of an insight into effects and postproduction I can tell you that it's much cheaper to have someone pulled vertically up into the air using ropes (like they did with Phoebe's levitation) then to produce, for instance, orbing, which takes a lot of precision work on set and expensive post-production afterwards. AdamDobay 22:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Music of Charmed

I'm just browsing around here, and noticed that there isn't even a single mention of the "Featuring" of music that was done in Charmed. Charmed, together with Dawson's Creek basically introduced this practice to the TV series at large. Someone interested in adding something on this? The DJ 01:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Closing Doors

From the article: In season seven, the doors closed on an empty house shortly after Prue's power inspired victory, the door was telekinetically closed by the (unseen) ghost of Prue. Where did the supposition that this was Prue's ghost come from? I haven't seen this episode since it originally aired almost a year ago, but I certainly don't remember any of the characters saying "Hey look, it's Prue's (unseen) ghost!" or anything of the sort. ;-) This strikes me as Original Research, but before removing it, I wanted to ask around to see if I'm the only one that missed this connection... Maelwys 16:24, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

While the sentence is a bit biased towards saying 'Prue' as many times as possible, the closing of doors is done by an invisible force with the sound of Prue's telekinesis. I'll reword that in a moment. AdamDobay 18:13, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the changes of the past days, I wonder why the entire External links section was removed, along with a number of links to other language pages. Is this justified by anything? AdamDobay 18:13, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

My guess is that it was justified by the fact that somebody just wanted to have fun. I looked back a couple days, it was done by the same guy that randomly inserted "xmen" into the article. Looks like when xmen was fixed, we missed the fact that the categories, most of the languages, and the footer template had also been removed. I've restored all of these now. Maelwys 20:43, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. AdamDobay 22:31, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality Discussion

The neutrality of this page has been disputed, with the reason: I don't think the page is particularly neutral, and judging by the discussion page, I'm not the only one.

I'd like to invite the user 82.40.105.82 (talk · contribs) who initiated this dispute to provide any details of where the neutrality of the page is in dispute so that we can make sure to clean that up ASAP. As far as the alligation that "judging by the discussion page, I'm not the only one" I also wouldn't mind seeing examples of that, because the only discussion I can find along those lines is related to the now-removed "Criticisms" section.

I'd also like to point out for future reference that, I think that if there is a problem with the article Neutrality, we'd be much better served discussing it here and cleaning it up quickly (as we've done with any other problems) instead of just plugging in a "Neutrality" flag and leaving it at that with no discussion.
-- Maelwys 16:21, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I'm seriously against the neutrality tag. It implies that there are serious problems with the article. Most problems related to the article were along the lines of length, grammar and structure, and most have already been sorted out. I'm removing the tag until someone can provide an accurate reason for putting one out. AdamDobay 16:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Though I don't have the sources, I clearly remember reading articles from TV critics (TV guide I think) that critized the show as little more than eye candy. There are lots of articles for movies and shows in which criticism against the show/movie is included (like Harry Potter promoting ocultism, Buffy's Caleb being an attack on Christianity). And we don't have the fans removing such portions. Admirers of the show are attracted by the romance, other people who enjoy supernatural shows are dissapointed by stuff like repeated plots (like the demon bent on gathering powers and support to rule the underworld) and disregard for stuff like "magic must be kept in secret", though characters always teleport in broad daylight and in areas filled with people or where they can easily be seen (like the Elders atop Golden Gate Bridge).--Gonzalo84 03:36, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think anyone could see the characters atop Golden Gate, as the top of the structure is more than 200 metres (650 feet) above the level where the cars roam. So unless you were explicitly looking with explicit equipment, you wouldn't really see. I'm working on the show changes section, I will soon get to the continuity things after I can trace who left, when and why. AdamDobay 13:19, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Maybe I'm just irked because I'm a bigger Buffy afficionado than I am a fan of Charmed (while also loving the show, I'll admit that it's my "guilty pleasure"), but I don't think that some of the opening paragraphs are particularly netural:
"The show has been the longest survivor in its generation of supernatural shows such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel or Roswell. Charmed has many times been noted for its mixing of multiple genres (from horror and fantasy to comedy and even soap), as well as its effectively surviving a number of jump the shark-moments, most famously the departure of one of the leading actresses at the end of season three."
To me, that seems to be bigging up the show slightly. The way it currently reads, one who wasn't familiar with Buffy or any of the other shows mentioned might be lead to believe that Charmed is the better show. True, Buffy lasted one season less than Charmed, but one could effectively debate that Buffy remained strong throughout all seven seasons, whilst Charmed has suffered a drastic decline in quality and ratings. Buffy also wasn't cancelled, unlike Charmed; instead, the creators and Sarah Michelle Gellar admirably decided to quit while they were ahead. So, as you can see from this perspective, that paragraph doesn't give all the information and gives the deceitful impression that Charmed survived longer because it was the best supernatural show of its time (when the cast and crew decide they no longer want to go on, it's a slightly different outcome than becoming so bad that the network decides to axe your show. There are two different interpretations of "surviving" one could derive from this.)
Also, it could be argued that the show didn't survive the jump-the-shark moments. The show suffered a decline in quality after some of these (increasingly cheesy, over-the-top storylines, etc.), despite the show continuing on.
Just my two cents. ;) Binthemix 19:30, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Binthemix, I agree after reading your take on it that it could be interpreted in more than one way. My including of that paragraph wished to express a temporal "survival", as Charmed is indeed the last existing supernatural show from that half-decade and from that generation of supernatural shows, ie. those which still experimented with the balancing of personal and magical storylines (started in the previous generation by shows such as Lois & Clark) as well as searching for and expanding the limits of the genres they participated in (including Charmed's half-season wandering into fantasy-dominated themes, as well as Buffy's experiment with the musical episode). The next generation of similar series, including, in my view, Smallville, are much more established on the balance of storylines as well as on genre limits, thus belonging to a different era.
This, in a nutshell, was what I was trying to imply by "last in the generation", thus I did not mean for that paragraph to imply that Charmed was different quality than Buffy or Angel, only that it is the last from that era. I will try to reword the paragraph so it doesn't sound POV. AdamDobay 21:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Two more notes. From interviews with Brad Kern and the female leads it is clear that they have decided on finishing the show this year since the end of Season 7 last May, as they have referred to this as early as last summer.
Another note is the jump the shark moments. I have included "effectively" into the survival of the jump the shark moments because the fact that the show has lived way past the initial jump the shark moment of Doherty leaving. As I see it after having read thousands of fan feedback in the past years, most jump the shark moments have not caused a general disappointment in viewers, more rather divided fans into pro-change and con-change groups (eg. in the case of Doherty leaving, many fans condemn Milano and McGowan to this day for the change while others have welcomed McGowan as a refresher of the programme).
It can also easily be argued that ratings have decreased since the show's move to the highly competitive Sunday night. It also needs to be mentioned that another rating-killer may very well have been The WB's advertising from Season 6, often referred to as ridiculously sex-centered, eg. when an episode of season 7, in which the protagonists were to face being held responsible for the deaths they have caused, was promoted under the heading "I slept with a zombie" and with a non-existing plot (whether the character Phoebe has had sex with a zombie).
So all in all, the show's "general decline in quality" is not an established fact, it is not even an overwhelmingly present opinion. AdamDobay 21:49, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I reworded the beginning, taking out "effectively" from the jump the shark moments, and replaced "longest survivor" with "last". See if it sounds less like a quality comparison now. AdamDobay 21:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Okay, it reads much better now. :) Thanks for taking my comments on board.

DVD Cover Art

There seems to have been some debate over whether to use the Region 2 and 4 cover art or Region 1. I was one of those in favour of using Region 2 and 4, although that might be slightly biased seeing as I'm from the UK and think our covers are nicer. I experimented with the Cover Art table to see if I could incorporate all covers into it, and I think I came up with a solution to satisfy everyone. What do you think? Binthemix 17:07, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Good Job!

Deletion Alert

Just want to let everybody know if you haven't seen it already, that List of magic spells in Charmed is currently marked for deletion. Follow this link to add your comments to the discussion on whether or not it should be removed. -- Maelwys 16:39, 22 March 2006 (UTC) This archive page covers approximately the dates between 2 April 2006 and 31 May 2006.

2006 April discussions

Trivia removed

Someone removed the whole Trivia section. I do not think it should be deleted just like that. Could someone please restore at least the important or most interestingpieces of trivia? AdamDobay 21:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Actually, I'm not sure the removal of the Trivia section is a bad thing... it looks like it was all moved to the Charmed Trivia page (linked within the Template), which is something I'd been considering recently as well. Maelwys 00:19, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Im the one that added that Section to the article, and yes, as above, it has been removed. At first, I kinda got angry and moved it back, but then somebody moved it back to the Trivia page once again, so Ill jsut leave it at that. :)

Season 8 DVD

The unknown poster who deleted the whole of the Trivia section also posted the following into the DVD section: "However, there will be extras, and special features, for the Charmed Complete Season Eight DVD: [4] "...Also new on the Charmed DVD front...there will be DVD extras on the Charmed Season Eight DVD's. Fans have been persistent and now have been rewarded!..."

Those are the exact copywrited words taken from the above website. The words do not belong to me. Therefore, if they violate any rules for Wikipedia, feel free to delete the respective portion.

End quote. It is only one thing that I do not understand why the third paragraph of this has to be there, but overall it is to be noted that thecharmedones.com is not an official information source and they have been wrong many times over the past. Thus I will change the section accordingly. AdamDobay 21:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Sorry, Im an unregistered user, and Ive been visiting that site a lot, and I though tit was a copywrited site, so feel free to get rid of it. Yes, I am that one that posted this, but Im not the person that deleted the whole Trivia section. In faCT, I added the Trivia section to this page, until it was moved to its own page. :)

Book of Shadows (Charmed)

This morning a link to this page was added into the template, bringing this page that I hadn't noticed before to my attention. Taking a look at it, it's basically a horribly formatted version of the recently deleted "List of Charmed spells" page. It has a bit of extra information (episode names), but aside from that is a major pain on the eyes to read. I see two options for how we can deal with this:

  1. Remove all the spell information from the page, leaving just a basic description of what the BoS is.
  2. Cleanup and reformat the whole page to look pretty and be more useful than either this page, or the old List of Spells page was.

Basically, the second route is to make this page into what some of us wanted the List of Spells page to become, had it survived the AfD. Either way we go, we'll need to move on it ASAP, or this page will also get AfD'd with the state it's in now. The only mystery is how it's survived 8 months like that... Thoughts? --Maelwys 15:10, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Charmed Cancelled

Charmed is a great show that i will miss because it is so awesome! Can someone please confirm that it WILL be cancelled in May? I'd really rather it not be.

  • Yep, the series is as good as done. As mentioned in the article, the crew wrapped up their final day of shooting yesterday, so now we're just waiting for those last episodes to hit the screen and then it'll be all over. Enjoy your DVDs. --Maelwys 18:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Redoing DVD section

Because the length of the quotes connected with the Charmed DVD's are now almost longer than the general information of the show, I propose a large cut done in that area because now that the cards are laid out the whole thing can be summarized in a few sentences. If anyone needs the quotes I'll copy them here. AdamDobay 09:42, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

"... they've never contacted me, they've never asked my opinion, or to do extras, they've never contacted anybody. I've called, and I've had the head of publicity call, but there's been no response — no-one returns the phone calls. There's no advocate at Paramount that cares enough about Charmed that can say, “Hey guys, we should be doing this and it'll make us a ton of money.” The frustration is there isn't really anyone to talk to because of the unique circumstances we find ourselves in now. The fans need to inundate Paramount with letters saying, “We'll buy them!” (I think that's all Paramount cares about — making money) and then say, “We won't buy them if you don't [put extras on] because we already have the episodes on tape.” I feel frustrated and helpless, and there's no-one to talk to ..." [5]
"...Also new on the Charmed DVD front...there will be DVD extras on the Charmed Season Eight DVD's. Fans have been persistent and now have been rewarded! Many have asked me where I have gotten this info from...it was emailed to me from the production office. As to what the extras are, I assume they are interviews and commentaries. No bloopers at all, from what I know..."[6]
"CBS took over Paramount's TV title earlier this year, and that's been great news for fans that want to have extras. Paramount released most of their sets without any bonus materials, while CBS has created loads of featurettes and inlcuded commentaries for shows like CSI, Survivor, and The Amazing Race. Now Charmed will get the CBS treatment for season 8, which should be out around Christmas (it won't be out for a while, so please don't ask)."...
"Fans thought the mention of Season 8 having extras was a cruel April Fool's Joke when TheCharmedOnes.com posted the news on Saturday, but we heard rumblings last week as well. We checked with Brad Kern and he confirmed the news that Charmed will have extras on the eighth season. Obviously CBS got the message that fans wanted to see extras on their sets; TheCharmedOnes.com started a campaign, and we made a few well-placed calls. Brad was also very clear that he wanted extras on the set when we interviewed him a few months ago."...
"Season 8 is still many months away, but at least you know there will be some bonus material on the set."[7]

Charmed Infobox

I've created a Charmed characters infobox and applied it to Prue, Piper, Phoebe, Paige, Leo, Cole, Dan, Jenny, Darryl, Andy, Wyatt, Chris, Billie and Christy. The format should be viewable by clicking "edit" on any of the pages. It'd be nice if people could use the template for editing other characters, specifically ones who've been in more than one episode or are part of the Warren family. Toodles. Zythe 23:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

2006 May discussions

Marnette Patterson

People keep reentering Marnette Patterson as a supporting character. I would like to note that supporting characters in the show have been those characters who have appeared in at least most episodes of one season, AND are listed in the show's title sequence. So Season 8's Billie, or Season 6's Chris are supporting characters because they have been in the titles even though they've only been in one season, while Marnette Patterson is not a supporting character because she is not in the main titles and appears in much less than a full season. She is also not a recurring character because recurring characters are those which repeatedly appear in more than one season in the same role (by the way, Elise Rothman is missing from that list). If we were to include Christy in either Supporting or Recurring, on that basis characters like Zankou, Jason Dean, Gideon, Avatar Alpha, and at least two dozen other characters would be supporting. And they're not. AdamDobay 09:38, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Andy and Prudence (Charmed)

(Copied from article talk page.)

I'm considering nominating this article for deletion, as the information contained there is redundant to the articles Charmed season summaries, Andy Trudeau, and Prudence Halliwell. I'm hoping to learn the opinions of other editors before I proceed. Thanks. MiraLuka 00:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

  • I've got no problem with seeing that article AfD'd. When I reworked the Prue article I think I worked in all the important stuff, so I don't really think that a 1-season subplot requires it's own page like that anymore. --Maelwys 10:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Make it redirect to Prudence Halliwell :) or just delete it Zythe 16:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I like that idea even better than deleting it. I've redirected it to Charmed season summaries though, I thought that would be better. :) MiraLuka 22:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Family Tree

I've been playing around with the family tree template and created this:

Penny JohnsonAllen Halliwell
Victor BennetPatty HalliwellSam Wilder
Prue HalliwellPaige MatthewsHenry Mitchell
Phoebe HalliwellCoop
Leo WyattPiper Halliwell
Wyatt Matthew HalliwellChristopher Perry Halliwell

Think this is worth including somewhere? It can either be put on each family member's page to show their place in the family, or just once on the List of Friends and Family page to show the overview... or not at all if people don't think it's even worth having around. Thoughts please? --Maelwys 12:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Its good, but shouldnt Coop be on there because he marries Phoebe in season 8. Ian42 19:26, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, I haven't seen that episode yet (since it's not on the air yet), so I haven't added that. Plus, I haven't figured out where to add it yet, since I'll have to rearrange things a bit to make it fit. ;-) --Maelwys 00:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Very nicely done. However, you should add Coop (Surname?), as well as Piper's, Phoebe's and Paige's future children (see "Kill Billie Vol. 2" and "Forever Charmed" - the two final episodes of the series). Also, so that it is complete, you should add Phoebe's first two husbands (Cole Turner and Dexter Lawson). In addition, why not add family that goes beyond Grams? Her mother was P. Baxter and her father, Gordon Johnson. P. Baxter had two cousins (therefore, her mother had two sisters - one of whom was Brianna Warren). The cousins were called P. Bowen and P. Russell (which was Brianna's daughter is unknown, although most likely P. Bowen, considering Brianna's close family traits to Prudence Halliwell and the fact that P. Bowen was Prue's past life). The three sisters' (including Brianna's)great-grandmother was Prudence Warren, great-great-grandmother was Melinda Warren and great-great-great-grandmother was Charlotte Warren. (This number of "great"'s is according to the spell in Season One's "The Witch Is Back" where Melinda was revealed to be the sisters' great(x6) grandmother). I hope this helps in extending the family tree, and helping to present the Charmed One's genealogy in an easier-to-read format. --Danny DeSio 13:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Victor Bennet(t)

There's been a lot of revert war recently over the spelling of Victor's last name. I approached the user that keeps spelling it with 1 t and asked for his source, and he pointed out that at the start of this season the spelling on Paige's license (since they're using his last name) is Bennet. I went looking at scripts, and in the episode that Piper gets arrested, her last name is in the script with 1 t as well. However, every site I can find that lists Victors last name (including tv.com and IMDB) lists it with 2 t's, which is the more common way to spell it (and the way that I'd been spelling it). However, since neither of those are official sources, and the only official sources that I've found so far (the props department and script writers) are using only 1 t, I think we'll have to revert everything back to only 1 t. But before going through and doing all that work I wanted to make sure it was clear with everybody the reasoning for doing that, so we don't just keep getting into revert wars here. --Maelwys 00:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know Victor is Bennet, not Bennett, but unfortunately I cannot provide you with an exact source outside of the official pages I've seen perhaps years ago. IMDB is not reliable on any matter unfortunately, so we will not know from that, but I say we go with Bennet beucase I've seen it spelt like that more times than not in official documents. AdamDobay 15:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
It is spelt with two ts. This is according to the offical Charmed guide book and the offical Charmed Magazines (alongside the not-so-reliable novels). Furthermore, basing this entire name change on the Charmed props is not a good choice, considering the fact that season 8 was plagued with mistakes (including Paige not remembering the fact that she vanquished the source, Phoebe remembering Cole's vanquish in an alternate universe, despite the fact that she (in her present form) was never there, and clearly shown not to remember that sequence of events during "Centennial Charmed", etc.). Furthermore, the prop team on Charmed is hopeless. For instance, the family tree they had written up had more mistakes that I have effort to write down. Lets not forget the mass of continuity errors Charmed has. It is practically famous for them. In additional to this, the Charmed scripts located on the internet, have absolutely no connection to the actual Charmed team, hence they are transcrips (transcribed lines by the fans who, through only hearing the lines, would never be able to know how many t's Bennet(t) has). So, if this massive edit on Wikipedia is down to two very minor props, in a show (and, inparticular a season) which prides itself on contiuity errors (visit any Charmed website for a gigantic list of errors - especially "The Demons Jumble") then your argument seems to have little reliabilty (said with all due respect).
Olympic god 14:17, 19 May 2006 (GMT)
Okay. But can we say then, perhaps, that it's spelt both ways? AdamDobay 13:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
How would that even make sense, though? The scales balance on the side of two t's. This major change in his name is all down to one fake (may I remind everyone) identity card held by Paige and fan transcriptions, without any research into the offical companion (created with the assistance and support of Brad Kern, Aaron Spelling, Duke Vincent etc.), the offical Charmed Magazine and the offical WB and Paramount websites. This change seems to me as an overstatement. If we corrected everything according to the endless continuity errors, then Paige was actually not around during 'Charmed and Dangerous' (Season 4) - that must have been a clone or someone glamoured to look like her - Cole never died in an alternate reality, he was vanquished in the normal plane, despite the fact that Season Five force-fed us the story of how unvanquishible he was on the normal physical plane; Grams never raised the Charmed Ones, because she died before their birth (a la family tree); Patty died in February while at SUMMER camp (a la That '70s Episode & P3H20); Victor's full name is Victor Jones-Bennett-Halliwell; Cole was born in 1888 AND 1902 (a la 'Coyote Piper' & 'Centenial Charmed')and so on. This change was an ill thought out one. Olympic god 14:17, 19 May 2006 (GMT)
Yeah, change it back if you can. Even though it's over... Zythe 00:20, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree, we should change it back to two t's. So will anybody?--Danny DeSio 10:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Charmed Wiki

I dont know about everyone else, but i think that someone should make a Charmed Wiki. Theres a Star Wars one, Lost one, Star Trek, why not Charmed? If anyone has any free time that is! - Ian42 19:26, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

  • I think there's enough info on it here that it'd just be a duplication of work. How much extra stuff would appear on that Wiki that doesn't already appear here? --Maelwys 22:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
  • That doesn't really answer my question. ;-) Lostpedia exists because it's a place to put all the speculation, guessing, and theories that don't belong here, because they're not encyclopedic. Charmed doesn't have quite the same level of stuff going on. Most of the information I could think of that I'd want on a "Wiccapedia" is already right here, so why bother duplicating the work to create it all again? --Maelwys 23:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I considered starting a Wikiproject a while back, but then figured that the scope wasn't quite big enough that having it as a project would really be that helpful. Most stuff that'd get discussed on a project page just gets discussed here instead, with this page being the central hub for discussions dealing with anything Charmed... it's been working like that pretty well so far, so can probably stay that way at this point. Especially since the show's basically done, and then the amount of stuff available to contribute will start to drop drastically. --Maelwys 02:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that's the same problem I find with most offshoot wiki's... it's a much smaller audience, so much less useful information available because there's a lot less editors and people check it a lot less often. Here at least we can hit more people, so get more help, and even if I forget to check some of the other wiki's that often, I'll probably be here every day, so I'm more likely to contribute something useful. --Maelwys 02:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Book of Shadows (Charmed) x2

Please visit Talk:Book of Shadows (Charmed) and contribute to the discussion on the future of that article. Thanks. MiraLuka 22:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

The Finale section

Do we really need a separate section for the finale? I think not. Partly because what happens in it should go into the article for the episode, and partly because the rest of what is in there is not crucial. Besides, I looked it up and Shannen Doherty met Rose McGowan four years ago, not this year, so that part is to be removed anyway. What do you think? AdamDobay 10:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I tend to agree. I don't mind having some trivia about the finale on the main page (the info on filming dates ending the series, etc) but having that there tends to invite other people to add episode synopsis and other stuff we don't want. So it's probably better to move what's there now into the Trivia section on the episode page, and off the main page. --Maelwys 11:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Persistent problems

Some person keeps adding extra powers to Chris Halliwell's infobox. Also, please refrain from entering spoilers from the last episode into the infoboxes. This means please don't add Melinda Halliwell, Henry Jr. Mitchell, Matthew Halliwell, Cooop and Phoebe and Paige's daughters into the "family" sections. Zythe 21:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to add

Charmed This user is a fan of the Charmed TV Series.

to your userpages, and PLEASE feel free to make it more aesthetically pleasing. Zythe 21:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Nice idea, but it's too pink for my tastes. :) AdamDobay 22:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Grr

If you see someone's added a list of powers a character had in a singular episode, such as "Shadow Leo", "Hindu Piper", "Goddess Phoebe" etc., please revert those changes. They're from singular episodes and don't reflect the character as they stand at present. If you were to look at the bio pages for Marvel Comics characters eg. Jean Grey, Wolverine, Northstar etc. they only have the chatacters current powers. Not included are say, the ones where they received temporary powers.Zythe 19:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move at Barbas, the Demon of Fear

There has been a request to move Barbas, the Demon of Fear to Barbas (Charmed). Please share your opinion at Talk:Barbas, the Demon of Fear Thank you. —MiraLuka 06:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Titles of episode articles

I just noticed that the titles of all of the articles for individual Charmed episodes have a capital "E" in their title. (see Forever Charmed (Charmed Episode) for an example) By Wikipedia standards, these articles should have a small "e" in the title. I almost started going through and changing them all, but I just want to be sure that I won't get reverted first. Thanks. —MiraLuka 08:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fine. Thumbs up! :) AdamDobay 09:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, good plan. --Maelwys 20:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I'll start work on it soon. —MiraLuka 01:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Unless I missed any, I'm done now. —MiraLuka 07:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move at Charrrmed (Charmed episode)

There has been a request to move Charrrmed (Charmed episode) to Charrrmed! (Charmed episode). Please share your opinion at Talk:Charrrmed (Charmed episode) Thank you. —MiraLuka 03:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia AFD

Just a headsup that the Charmed Trivia page has been listed for AfD. Discussion on it is taking place here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maelwys (talk • contribs) 25 May 2006, 13:40 (UTC)

Charmed recent changes

I recently created a page at User:MiraLuka/Charmed recent changes. It contains a listing of all of the articles in Category:Charmed and its subcategories. If you go to the page and click the "Related changes" link to the left (or just click here), it works like the recent changes page, but only for Charmed-related articles. I hope this is of some use. —MiraLuka 02:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Number of viewers

The information on the number of viewers for "Forever Charmed" keeps getting changed back and forth between 4.49 million and 4.98 million (although someone has now changed the number on this page to "about 5 million"). Does someone have a source that will fix this craziness? —MiraLuka 19:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The confusion stems from the fact that there were numbers announced for the overnight ratings, there were numbers announced for the fast nationals and there are yet other numbers that were said to be final ratings. The following versions are present:
  • Nielsen Media Research (published in Mediaweek) says it is 4.23 million (3.7/6; 1.8/5 adults).
  • Fast National ratings report says 2.7/4, no number of viewers.
  • Casahalliwell.it and Television Without Pity reports 4.98 million, but these numbers were released before the official announcement of the final numbers.
  • Finally, ABCMedia.net reports 4.49 million (#74).

From this we can conclude that the final viewer figure is 4.49 million. AdamDobay 21:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thank you very much. —MiraLuka 22:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Article Clean-up

Okay, so I'm off uni for the summer. I just thought it'd be really awesome if we could improve/clean-up this article (it's pretty good already, but everything can always be refined, right?) in the hopes of it become a featured article. Anyone up for helping out? We can make a list of stuff we aim to achieve, blah, blah. Binthemix 03:40, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd be interested in helping however I can. —MiraLuka 04:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
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