Talk:Cape Fox Village

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Cape Foxes

There's two Cape Foxes in the Panhandle; please see GNIS page/search for "Cape Fox". temporarily, on Cape Fox (disambiguation), I've designated the Cape Fox associated with this village as Cape Fox (Ketchikan) and the one to the south of it, nearer Prince Rupert, as Cape Fox (Alaska). Cape Fox people I'm not really prepared to write; they figure importantly in southern history as "the Tongass" (see Port Gamble, Washington).Skookum1 (talk) 23:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they're the same; I'm going to place their coords here and have a look at the satmaps... 54°46′14″N 130°50′38″W / 54.77056°N 130.84389°W is the one on the Prince Rupert quad, 55°00′25″N 131°00′30″W / 55.00694°N 131.00833°W is the one on the Ketchikan quad. The village is at 55°00′30″N 131°00′15″W / 55.00833°N 131.00417°WSkookum1 (talk) 23:51, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, having had a look at the three locations now, it's a given that the "ketchikan" Cape Fox is the one associated with the village; but the other nearby Cape Fox (~30 km? or less) pretty much shares the same name-associaton; I'm wondering if "Cape Fox" might have historically meant that whole peninsula (please go to the maps and "back out" abit). Anyone here know this area at all? I'm wondering if both the geographic Cape Foxes here can be one article, somehow....Skookum1 (talk) 23:57, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just for the hell of it, I made Tongass Island, and if I knew enough, would make Fort Tongass though maybe those can be the same article also normally I don't like such mergers...). It's to the east of the southerly Cape Fox, just above 54-40...54°46′22″N 130°44′22″W / 54.77278°N 130.73944°W .- makes me wonder if there weren't more villages of the Tongass/Sanyas kwaan/Cape Fox people throughout this area, not just the one, but I just don't know enough up that way.....hopefully one of you Alaskans on this page might....Fort Tongass there's quite a bit on out there, in older histories btw....Skookum1 (talk) 00:11, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hm I might be wrong in my .... guesswork...that the Cape Fox people were the same as teh Tongass people; see this:

At the beginning of the 20th century, this word was variously spelled Tomgas, Tont-a-quans, Tungass, Tungass-kon and Tanga'sh. "It's the name of a group of people," said anthropologist Rosita Worl.

Spin-offs: Port Tongass, Tongass Island, Tongass Narrows, Tongass National Forest (created by presidential proclamation Sept. 10, 1907), Tongass Passage, Tongass Reef. Fort Tongass was established in June 1868 at the former Tlingit Indian village named for the island, and maintained until September 1870. The village was on the east coast of Tongass Island.

Which is from this Sealaskaheritage.org page....I'll take this to Talk:Tlingit, where maybe somebody can cast some light on it for me...now I'm curious........Skookum1 (talk) 02:47, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Crap. I added information to the article before reading your comments here, so I hope I didn't screw it up. If it helps, the Anchorage Daily News only seems to be aware of one Cape Fox. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:25, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as noted, it may be that the whole landform/landmass containing both designated Cape Fox "points" (point-of-land) is all the same Cape Fox, historically/culturally. And also as noted I was wrong about the Tongass people being the same...but now I'm wondering about the Saxman people, which is another name I've come across, and my impression is that they're teh relocatees from Cape Fox Village; the Tongass are those in Ketchikan...confusing matters further, one interpretation fo the Puget Sound War material is that the "Tongas" were Tsimshian", but a friend who knows the native turf really well says tha'ts wrong; but the imputation maybe that theee were Tsimshians - Tsimshianics, rather than Coast Tsimshian, that is (i.e.g maybe Nisga'a) who were Tongass/Haida allies/partners in those raids....those raids seem like the "Wraith' on Stargate:Atlantis, if you know the series, every so many years they'd raid Puget Sound/the Strait of Georgia/Lower Fraser region; 1856 was the last time, most likely as a result of teh US Navy's fighting them off (and the ensuant population collapse from 1862; see Talk:Haida.Skookum1 (talk) 20:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]