Talk:Canadian (disambiguation)

About redirect from Canadian to Canadian (disambiguation)

There is a discussion at Talk:Canadians#About redirect pertaining to redirecting the ambiguous term "Canadian" to the "Canadian" disambiguation page. --Geraldo Perez (talk) 06:13, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Canadian redirected to Canadians. Aervanath (talk) 02:31, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

---

Canadian (disambiguation) → Canadian – There are very few direct links to Canadian (disambiguation) and lots of links to Canadian which is just a redirect to Canadian (disambiguation). "Canadian" is an ambiguous term and the uses of that term should directly link to the page discussing that ambiguity. The redirected page is not needed. Geraldo Perez (talk) 06:54, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

• Strong oppose Articles do not link to disambiguation pages. If your rationale for moving it is to make articles link to a disambiguation page, then that's bad. I will note that Canadian (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) used to redirect to Canada, so I suggest it revert to that usage, since linking to a disambiguation page is wrong. 70.24.251.158 (talk) 07:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment. Check out American, German, Mexican, Brazilian as examples of similar ambiguous terms being directly linked to a disambiguation page. The reason is that the terms ARE ambiguous. Linking to the disambiguation page in an article is temporary until the term is piped to the proper unambiguous article. In this case "Canada" is not always correct. Geraldo Perez (talk) 07:30, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
    • Comment articles do not link to disambiguation pages. We have a cleanup template for such an error, Template:Disambiguation needed. If your reason for making Canadian a disambiguation page is because articles link to it, it is wrong, because articles do not link to disambiguation pages. 70.24.251.158 (talk) 04:31, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
• Support as I would expect most demonyms to be disambiguation pages - as above, Canada is not always what is meant. Any link to Canadian should be changed to point to the appropriate article. 81.142.107.230 (talk) 15:44, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
• Comment There are over 8000 links to Canadian, which did not redirect to a disambig until very recently. Those links should be fixed by those who want to make this change per WP:FIXDABLINKS. --JaGa^talk 01:22, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. The term Canadian is primarily associated with people from Canada, so Canadian should redirect to Canadians. See WP:PRIMARYUSAGE. Mindmatrix 14:42, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
• Comment: I believe most of the incoming links refer to Canada rather than Canadians. (I looked at several pages and that seemed correct for them; the same is true of Turkish not counting links intending Turkish language.) However, people who type in "Canadian" are more likely to be looking for Canadians I would think. But one must ask if WP:TWODABS is relevant (as there are two primary meanings, most similar titles also may refer to a language). TimBentley (talk) 16:37, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. as per Mindmatrix and TimBentley (talk) comment about what our readers "are more likely to be looking for", What should take place is the fixing of the link in articles and with re-writing phrases to there proper context. Moxy (talk) 01:16, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

John Gilbert "Jack" Layton, PC, MP (born July 18, 1950) was a Canadian social democratic politician, who was the leader of the New Democratic Party.

John Gilbert "Jack" Layton, PC, MP (born July 18, 1950) was a social democratic politician, who was the leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Per WP:PARTIAL undid addition of Canadian canoe

Sorry, I accidentally published my recent undo of this change before I finished the edit message. Per WP:PARTIAL this page is not a search index for evereything with "Canadian" in the name. Only things that might reasonably be titled "Canadian" should be listed here. If people do in fact regularly refer to canoes as "Canadians" then I apologize; please add an explanation here or in the edit message. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Falsifian (talk • contribs) 19:08, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 13 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:20, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

---

Canadian (disambiguation) → Canadian – It's safe to say that Canadian doesn't have a primary topic, just like almost every other nationalities (American, Australian, British, Brazilian, Mexican, etc per WP:CONSISTENT) because it can also refer to the something from Canada, its citizens, and either the English/French variety of that language. In fact, Australian (disambiguation) was only recently moved to Australian back in October 2022. JuniperChill (talk) 16:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 13:22, 21 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 11:42, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Seems like 'Canadian' covers a lot of ground. Why not just simplify things and rename it? Other countries have done it, too. Waqar💬 15:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. When you refer to the term Canadian, the absolute number one thing people think about are Canadians, hence the redirect. There is really only one term that 'Canadian' by itself refers to, which are Canadians. The purpose of specifying that this is a disambiguation page is to list other terms that include the term 'Canadian', but are not called 'Canadian' by themselves. Canadians, on the other hand, are simply called 'Canadian'. The current title of Canadian (disambiguation) is perfectly fine. – Handoto (talk) 18:40, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose as it's a demonym clearly representing a people. It is also clearly the primary topic.... All other instances would require a qualifier. Junk make work project for the rest of us.Moxy🍁 18:48, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, the plural 'Canadians' may refer to how many Canadian people can fit on the head of a pin (one at a time), but the key point is that an individual Canadian belongs to the overall group - Canadians. Per Handoto and Moxy. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:53, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
• Comment, has Canadian have to be any different in which it has a primary topic for its people? (currently a redirect to Canadians) Literally every other nationality I can think of is a disambiguation page because the term can also refer to the country (Maple syrup is Canadian is another way to say maple syrup is from Canada and doesn't refer to its people. ). The term 'Canadians' is unambiguous and could only plausibly refer to its people. JuniperChill (talk) 17:35, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. The demonym is the primary topic. O.N.R. ^(talk) 13:31, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nomination, Crouch, Swale and Waqar. In addition to the nomination's five adjectives, there are also Belgian, Chinese, Croatian, Estonian, French, German, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Swedish or Ukrainian, to name but another fifteen. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:49, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom to be consistent with others. I don’t think it’s clear the demonym is the primary topic

Kowal2701 (talk) 08:24, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

• We do this for all other such adjectives. This one doesn't have a very common meaning of a language (which often happens elsewhere), but the ambiguity between the adjective for the country and the adjective for the people is already fairly obvious to the average English reader. There is no qualifier needed to say "Canadian" to refer to topics related to Canada other than its people.

Let's for example look at the Google Books Ngrams for how the word is used - like this. That list includes a number of examples for how the adjective is used beyond referring to the people, such as to reference the government, Pacific, journals, institutes, banks, etc etc. I suppose a case could be made that a lot of these things are Canadian because they belong to the Canadian people, but that seems like an overly intricate interpretation that probably isn't too obvious for the average English reader.

We should disambiguate the adjective like we do it elsewhere, format a common meaning section at the top, and then be able to measure where the readers went in a couple of months - worst case this will give us a data-supported rationale to undo. (Support) --Joy (talk) 10:29, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Why not rename Canadians → Canadian, making the plural version the redirect? The term is, and a person is, a 'Canadian', not 'Canadians'. Regardless, the disambiguation page should clearly state that it is the disambiguation page. The demonym is, by a mile (or kilometre), the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. A Canadian is a Canadian. 2605:B100:12C:7570:4CF:2DB2:1C68:C5DF (talk) 12:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

  Because by renaming Canadians to Canadian, it would be out of place with other demonyms out there (Australians, Americans, Brazilians, germans, Mexicans) JuniperChill (talk) 13:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

As for "Regardless, the disambiguation page should clearly state that it is the disambiguation page.", the nomination already points out that "In fact, Australian (disambiguation) was only Talk:Australian#Requested_move_20_October_2022|recently moved to Australian". The arguments submitted at that nomination as well as at the slightly earlier one at Talk:Austrian#Requested move 29 September 2022, which did not result in the move Austrian → Austrian (disambiguation) confirm that there is no need for the parenthetical qualifier "(disambiguation)" in these types of entries. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:31, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support - Canadians already has a clear place, and refers to people from Canada, changing it to Canadian would then render it ambiguous. "Canadian" is ambiguous as it can refer to objects, people, places, etc. We should prefer a dab for Canadian as we do for other similar topics, for clarity if not purely for consistency. Some here are saying that the people are clearly the primary topic, but that is a subjective argument based entirely on point of view, any noun that can be considered from or of Canada is also "Canadian". With a dab at the base name, there can be no uncertainty. Also keep in mind WP:NWFCTM, which is relevant here - I don't know how we could even prove empirically that Canadians is the primary topic for Canadian, but if anybody has a way, you're welcome to try. ASUKITE 18:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Canadian clearly refers to a person from Canada, at least when it comes to just using the term in isolation. Unlike some other demonyms (e.g. German), there's no language of this name, I don't see any other titles coming close, and taking the user to a disambiguation page would not be useful.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:21, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

  Canadian English, Canadian French Kowal2701 (talk) 17:24, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.