Talk:Buyid dynasty

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Hello, many websites show something like this as the flag of the buyids: File:Flag of the buyid empire (possible).png or https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_buyid_empire_(possible).png — Preceding unsigned comment added by History of Persia (talk • contribs) 22:04, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Iranica

According to Iranica: "Whatever the original language of the Deylamites may have been, in the Islamic period they spoke a northwestern Iranian dialect very similar to the language of the Gilites". Tons of references here: [1][2](purely Iranian dynasty of Daylam)--Nepaheshgar 01:23, 15 July 2008 (UTC) The Buyids according to the Encyclopedia Iranica: "On the one hand, the Buyids were Shiʿite military leaders of Iranian origin, who would aim at creating a principality independent of the caliphs and at embarking on a policy guided rather by the ancient Iranian tradition, which already Mardāvīj had tried to revive, than by the universal political ideals of Islam."[3] and also Britannica says the same. So the same Iranica article considers them of Iranian origin and Daylamite origin, meaning they are equivalent. Someone(a banned user) claimed original language and origin are two different. Original language of everyone was caveman speech and their origin goes back to two or few humans in Africa. So I am not sure where you are going with this. What is known is that a tribe by the name Daylamite at least from the Islamic era was Iranian-speaking and hence Iranic (just like people grouped under Turkic and specially Anatolian are not all pure Turks like Yakuts but they are classified as Turkic people since they speak Turkic and consider themselves to be Turkic/Turks(Turkish Character)). We have no evidence of the language of Daylamites in pre-Islamic times to assess if it was a North West Iranian dialect, a South East Iranian dialect, or a North East Iranian dialect or another possibly non-Iranian language group. We have evidence only from islamic time and it is Iranian language. Note the Iranica article is mentioning that their language was close to Gilites in Islamic time(a NW Iranian language) but it does not say anything about other possible Iranian languages(SE, NE, SW..). So by the time of Buyids, at least 300 years (since Islamic time) the tribe was Iranian speaking and the dynasty had Iranian character and Iranica/Britannica consider it a dynasty of Iranian origin since Daylamites as a group were an Iranian speaking group for more than at least 300 years and had Iranian character. So they were Iranian or Iranianized(the two terms really mean the same thing once you are Iranianized you are Iranian) at least 300 years before taking power and made a dynasty of Iranian character (per sources like Britannica/Iranica and many others in google book). Simply (Iranian language and Iranian character) characterize the buyids as daylamite(Iranian). And they themselves took pride in considering themselves descendants of Sassanids who were a national Iranian dynasty. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 03:58, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The map uploaded by Wayiran

The map is an altered version of a map from an Iranian elementary school history book (grade 7). This map is published less than 30 years ago and it's copyrighted. Also, because it's not under GFDL or similar licenses, its modification is not allowed. This issue is separate from several errors and inconsistencies in that crappy school map. Alefbe (talk) 06:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Source needs verification

This source,[4] added by User:HistoryofIran needs verification.

• 1. Who is Paul White? Some verification as to his academia, besides the website which itself is in question.
• 2. Where exactly does it state, "The Buyids were/are not Kurdish", which "references" the end of the sentence, "not Kurdish". --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:02, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Non-specialized sources, etc.

I have removed a non-specialized encyclopedia source(Britannica), simple link sources(Iranica), some dead-link to the University of Chicago and two non-specialized sources(Merriam-Webster & Global security). I have left TWO secondary sources which support the Daylamite origins of the Buyids. This should be more than sufficient. --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:45, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Dailamite or Kurdish origin?

Most sources state that the Buyids were of Dailamite origin.

And if we ignore the sources for a second then let's not forget that they originated from Lahijan in Daylam, which has never been a Kurdish populated area.

I propose that in the Origins section, there should be written that the historian Meho,Kelly L. Maglaughli says that the Buyids were of Kurdish origin, however, most sources agree about the Buyids being of Dailamite origin.

Or something that resembles what i said. --Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust (talk) 14:09, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Category:History of Kurdish people

This category doesn't mean, they are Kurds. But it makes attention of Buyid-Kurds relations. For example, Buyids of Fars. You can read here their relations.--Gomada (talk) 16:10, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

So by using your logic, we should also add the category of all other kingdoms they had some relations with? The Samanids, Byzantines, Hamdanids.. etc. Adding the category on the article makes it look like that they were Kurds, which they weren't. You should have come to the talk page in the start, instead of constantly making edits based on your own opinion. The Roman Empire was populated by various types of ethnic groups, should we also add categories of those ethnic groups to that article? --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:15, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Or you should try to talk before you use extreme words as nationalistic POV? You still dont want to understand/accept. WP is not looking for your own idea. We need sources, and there are sources about their connections. There is even claim of their Kurdishness in article. What else do you need?--Gomada (talk) 16:20, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Listen, only one random source made by two confused scholars calls them of Kurdish origin, while the majority of scholars, such as Bosworth and Hugh Kennedy, calls them of Dailamite origin, thus making it most likely that they were of Dailamite origin (not to forget that they were from Daylam). Besides the word “Kurd” first became an ethnic identity in the 12th and 13th century :). Before that the word was a tern used on all Iranian nomads.

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Map Inaccurate

The Buyids under Adud Ul Dawla controlled parts of Anatolia, Gorgan,Makran and even had Vassal rulers in Yemen , this is clearly seen in Bosworth's book about them [5] , which is also mentioned in the Wikipedia article of Adud Ul Dawla...[6]This map right here is a bit more accurate as it shows the Buyids at their peak, however it still does not include some parts of Yemen, Makran and Anatolia Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 21:48, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

The map is not inaccurate (it was also created by Ro4444, one of the best users we have, unfortunately not active anymore), it just doesn't show the Buyids at their zenith. And the version of the linked map was created by me, but its quality is much lower than this one. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:11, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Iranian Daylamites(Iranian) origins

This sentence;

• "As Daylamite Iranians, the Buyids consciously revived symbols and practices of the Sasanian Empire." cited by Goldschmidt, Arthur (2002). A Concise History of the Middle East (7 ed.). Boulder, CO: Westview Press. p. 87. Doesn't say Iranians but Persians. Let's refrain from the redundant statement of "Iranian Daylamites", since it is already known they are an Iranian peoples per the Daylamite article.

As such, the Lead sentence should remain the same.

• "The Buyid dynasty (Persian: آل بویه, romanized: Âl-i Bōye), also spelled Buwayhid (Arabic: البويهية, romanized: Al-Buwayhiyyah), was a Zaydi and, later, Twelver Shia dynasty of Daylamite origin, which mainly ruled over central and southern Iran and Iraq from 934 to 1062." --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:19, 25 August 2024 (UTC)