Talk:Bust of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (New York City)

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Sculpture

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Visual arts: Public art

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Article name

Given that there are several dozens of such sculptures (see e.g. c:Category:Busts of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe), the recent move of this article from Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (Fischer) to Bust of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe seems to be against the principles of WP:TITLE, especially WP:PRECISE. Disambiguating a work of art by its creator's name is widespread practice on Wikipedia. I suggest to move this article back. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:53, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Bednarek, But are there multiple Wikipedia articles about busts of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe requiring disambiguation? If so, what about Bust of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (New York City)? @Ham II: Pinging you as well. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 13:28, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No there aren't (yet). But everybody encountering this title, except the people living in the surrounds of Bryant Park, will be puzzled or mislead. The previous title was more precise and in line with common practice. Some examples from nearby include William Shakespeare (Ward), Robert Burns (Steell), Daniel Webster (Ball), Christopher Columbus (Suñol). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:33, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Bednarek, But the naming convention is changing; Talk:Statue of Benjamin Franklin (Stanford University), Talk:Bust of Benjamin Harrison, and Talk:Statue of Guy Lafleur show a general preference for the "Statue of XXX" format over the "subject (medium)" and "subject (artist)" format. I should also note, there's an ongoing discussion here about the naming conventions for public statues. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:39, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't aware of any of these discussions. The one at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Visual arts seems to have meandered without any clear consensus or recommendation. OTOH, the other 3 specific discussions seems to assume there was. I'm not convinced and still think that "Bust of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe" implies there's only one. The old name was fine and didn't need fixing. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:09, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Bednarek, Agree to disagree. Not really sure how to move forward, but you're welcome to invite others to this discussion. FWIW, some of the articles you've listed as examples will be moved in the near future as well. I'm not worried about disambiguation here until there are other Wikipedia articles about busts of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:16, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The WP:PRECISE point seems fair, and I think some form of disambiguation is needed here. My #1 preference would be for Bust of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (New York), but I admit to lacking local knowledge here – should "New York" be avoided in favour of "New York City"?

Where the other works nearby are concerned WP:PRECISE – "titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article", and the seeking of "natural and recognizable title[s]" over ones "already precise enough to be unambiguous" but lacking naturalness and recognisability – is a good argument against titles such as William Shakespeare (Ward). Ham II (talk) 16:07, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ham II, I would think "New York City" since "New York" is actually a disambiguation page. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:09, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough; Bust of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (New York City), then. Ham II (talk) 16:12, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ham II,

Moved ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:17, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]