Talk:Bungay Castle (novel)
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Did you know nomination
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 10:07, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
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Painting of Bungay Castle in 1790, the year before it was purchased by Elizabeth Bonhôte's husband
- ... that the apparent ghosts in Elizabeth Bonhôte's 1797 novel Bungay Castle (castle pictured) are actually a servant who knows ventriloquism? Source: Novel is a RS for its own plot; this detail also cited to Ann Tracy's plot summary in The Gothic novel 1790-1830: plot summaries and index to motifs
- ALT1: ... that Elizabeth Bonhôte set her 1797 novel Bungay Castle (castle pictured) in the glory days of a ruined castle recently purchased by her husband? Source: Blain, Virginia; Clements, Patricia; Grundy, Isobel, eds. (1990). The Feminist Companion to Literature in English: Women Writers from the Middle Ages to the Present Day. London: Batsford. p. 113.
5x expanded by LEvalyn (talk). Self-nominated at 21:55, 25 March 2022 (UTC).
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| Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: 
- N/A
Overall: 
Everything about the article is fine. Expanded fivefold. It’s sourced, neutral, and there are no pesky copyvios running around. Pic provided is public domain and clear. Out of the two hooks provided, I like ALT1 more because, along with being incredibly interesting, I think it’s easier for a casual reader to understand.
The only reason why I’m giving this nomination a question mark (for now) is because you didn’t mention anything about QPQ. I just need to know— have you completed a QPQ or are you not required to because you have under five DYK credits? Just tell me which and then I’ll approve. Helen(💬📖) 19:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, sorry for not making it clear! This is my fifth DYK so a QPQ is not required. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 20:03, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- UPDATED REVIEW:
@LEvalyn: Then let's get this show on the road. Helen(💬📖) 20:18, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn and HelenDegenerate: hi there, y'all! Unfortunately, looks like both of these hooks fall afoul of WP:DYKSG#C6: hooks about fictional works should involve the real world in some way. Is there any hook that can speak to the book's real-world reception/impact? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 07:36, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: Ah, I see, I wasn't aware of that. I think her husband buying the actual Bungay Castle is at least partly a link to the real world. For a different angle that focuses more on reception, let me think... the novel didn't have a lot of recorded impact during its time; it passes WP:BOOKCRIT but largely because its themes (i.e. content) are today analyzed to understand the 18thC Gothic. So most of the secondary sources talk about how the content of the novel promotes a conservative and pro-monarchic viewpoint (a bit unusual for Gothic novels, which tend toward the radical). Georgieva writes a lot about how the book claims not to be about contemporary politics, but then makes a lot of very political statements by paralleling the family's father to the king: it might be hard to convey that in a hook-y way, but would that be closer? Oh, or what if the hook tried to address the fact that during Bonhôte's lifetime the castle was being lived in by poor families, which she thought was absolutely terrible (because she thought poor people were ugly.......) so she wrote the novel to imaginatively restore the castle to its glory days of hosting barons and kings? If you let me know what angle seems most promising, I'll try to word it as a proper hook. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 17:20, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn: thanks for the prompt reply! I'm thinking the husband buying the actual castle angle looks promising; was it before or after the novel was released? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 17:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: The date I've seen for the castle purchase is 1791, which is six years before the novel was published. I was re-reading the novel's preface to think about how to write the hook, and it strikes me as a little odd that the preface doesn't refer to the castle purchase. The purchase information all comes from a reference text by Blain et al., which is what the source I mostly used was citing. I'd like to borrow that book from the library and double-check the details. Can the DYK wait about a week while I get more info? There may be something else in Blain et al. which would make for a better hook too. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 23:24, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- @~ L 🌸: hi! any updates? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:54, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I just got the book today! The sum total of its commentary on this novel (p 113): "Bungay Castle, 1796, dedicated to the Duke of Norfolk, is an essentially eighteenth-century picture of the middle ages set at EB's own home: she had bought the ruins and converted them for modern use. She sold them to the duke about 1800 and moved to Bury." The duke it was sold to is the same one the novel is dedicated to. The Georgieva book doesn't do much more than mention "Elizabeth Bonhote, a sentimental and gothic author from the small town of Bungay who purchased a gothic castle and later breathed life into the decaying building through her fiction" (ix) and "When comparing the fictional building with engravings of the castle at the time Bonhote herself planned to buy it, the discrepancy between the low towers and the vast fictional battlements is astonishing." (173) But the DNB has more detail: " In 1791 her husband purchased the site of Bungay Castle. Its ruined grandeur and fabled history appealed to her imagination and inspired her final novel, a Gothic romance entitled Bungay Castle (1796). Featuring the popular ingredients of a handsome hero imprisoned in a dungeon, a fair heroine of acute sensibility, secret passages, and ghostly hauntings, it confirmed her position as one of the Minerva Press's best-selling authors." So I think that's everything we know about the physical castle... I updated the article to be a bit more precise, but I'm not sure how to start boiling it down for a hook. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 02:04, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- Gotcha! this one's a little insubstantial, but howzabout: theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:07, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- ALT2: ... that Elizabeth Bonhôte wrote Bungay Castle after her husband bought Bungay Castle?
- Hi Theleekycauldron, sorry for the long delay (life intervened) but I am happy with that ALT2! And I still haven't thought of a better one. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 04:38, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- Gotcha! this one's a little insubstantial, but howzabout: theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:07, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I just got the book today! The sum total of its commentary on this novel (p 113): "Bungay Castle, 1796, dedicated to the Duke of Norfolk, is an essentially eighteenth-century picture of the middle ages set at EB's own home: she had bought the ruins and converted them for modern use. She sold them to the duke about 1800 and moved to Bury." The duke it was sold to is the same one the novel is dedicated to. The Georgieva book doesn't do much more than mention "Elizabeth Bonhote, a sentimental and gothic author from the small town of Bungay who purchased a gothic castle and later breathed life into the decaying building through her fiction" (ix) and "When comparing the fictional building with engravings of the castle at the time Bonhote herself planned to buy it, the discrepancy between the low towers and the vast fictional battlements is astonishing." (173) But the DNB has more detail: " In 1791 her husband purchased the site of Bungay Castle. Its ruined grandeur and fabled history appealed to her imagination and inspired her final novel, a Gothic romance entitled Bungay Castle (1796). Featuring the popular ingredients of a handsome hero imprisoned in a dungeon, a fair heroine of acute sensibility, secret passages, and ghostly hauntings, it confirmed her position as one of the Minerva Press's best-selling authors." So I think that's everything we know about the physical castle... I updated the article to be a bit more precise, but I'm not sure how to start boiling it down for a hook. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 02:04, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- @~ L 🌸: hi! any updates? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:54, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: The date I've seen for the castle purchase is 1791, which is six years before the novel was published. I was re-reading the novel's preface to think about how to write the hook, and it strikes me as a little odd that the preface doesn't refer to the castle purchase. The purchase information all comes from a reference text by Blain et al., which is what the source I mostly used was citing. I'd like to borrow that book from the library and double-check the details. Can the DYK wait about a week while I get more info? There may be something else in Blain et al. which would make for a better hook too. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 23:24, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn: thanks for the prompt reply! I'm thinking the husband buying the actual castle angle looks promising; was it before or after the novel was released? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 17:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: Ah, I see, I wasn't aware of that. I think her husband buying the actual Bungay Castle is at least partly a link to the real world. For a different angle that focuses more on reception, let me think... the novel didn't have a lot of recorded impact during its time; it passes WP:BOOKCRIT but largely because its themes (i.e. content) are today analyzed to understand the 18thC Gothic. So most of the secondary sources talk about how the content of the novel promotes a conservative and pro-monarchic viewpoint (a bit unusual for Gothic novels, which tend toward the radical). Georgieva writes a lot about how the book claims not to be about contemporary politics, but then makes a lot of very political statements by paralleling the family's father to the king: it might be hard to convey that in a hook-y way, but would that be closer? Oh, or what if the hook tried to address the fact that during Bonhôte's lifetime the castle was being lived in by poor families, which she thought was absolutely terrible (because she thought poor people were ugly.......) so she wrote the novel to imaginatively restore the castle to its glory days of hosting barons and kings? If you let me know what angle seems most promising, I'll try to word it as a proper hook. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 17:20, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn and HelenDegenerate: hi there, y'all! Unfortunately, looks like both of these hooks fall afoul of WP:DYKSG#C6: hooks about fictional works should involve the real world in some way. Is there any hook that can speak to the book's real-world reception/impact? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 07:36, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- No worries! The meatspace takes priority. Unless it's my schoolwork. good to go with ALT2! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 08:06, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
