Talk:Boogie rock
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Link Nr. 4 has changed: http://www.rhapsody.com/genre/rock-pop/blues-and-boogie-rock/boogie-rock 79.10.72.2 (talk) 17:56, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
External links modified
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Origins
[edit]This needs more historical reference. Boogie rock is an guitar rock style based on Jump blues(which in itself is a product of boogie woogie)..its where the word 'Boogie' comes from. Which was popularised in the fifties by people like Chuck Berry and reinvented by bands such as the Stones in the early sixties. 81.146.61.12 (talk) 21:35, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Lists of performers
[edit]Some new expansion by Ojorojo has added a paragraph with a list of artists. This might be in violation of Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music#Lists which says "Music genre articles should not contain lists of performers." I interpret that to mean we should be describing each significant artist in some context relative to the topic rather than simply listing them in a row of commas or a column of bullet points. As is usual in music genres, we could break out the full list of artists into a separate article, possibly titled List of boogie rock artists. The most influential artists should be described here, telling the reader why each is important. Binksternet (talk) 16:34, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hello Binksternet: I am aware of the guideline, but there is very little written about boogie rock from which to develop a full-fledged article and list. After a fair amount of research, what you see represents nearly all the RS I could find in my reference works and googlebook searches. While it certainly would be better to have more context, describe why each is important, etc., the sources simply don't provide this level of detail relevant to the genre. Splitting off the artists into a separate list wouldn't leave much for the main article and the new list would only contain the 22 groups. Do you have any other solutions? —Ojorojo (talk) 17:01, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Four other solutions might be removing this topic from classification as a music subgenre, or merging the material into Boogie (genre) as a new 1960s–1970s history section, or merging it into Boogie where it already talks about boogie rock bands, or merging it into Blues rock as a subsection within the 1960s–1970s section. All of these involve changes of classification that make me uncomfortable. It would be going against some reliable sources that describe boogie rock as a subgenre of blues rock, for instance this music genre tree and this genre map which says about blues rock that "smaller subgenres were eventually formed as well, such as the piano blues–based boogie rock." Perhaps we just leave it be. Binksternet (talk) 18:18, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Another solution is to list boogie rock songs or albums. Binksternet (talk) 01:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
- Shifting the focus to songs and albums would actually be more informative than just listing the artists, but I don't see RS for them (I've come across this before: although an artist is identified with a genre/subgenre/style, none of their albums or songs are). Let me try to work on it, place less emphasis on the artists or trim them to the most representative to make it less "listy", etc. If that doesn't work, merging it into Blues rock would be the next best. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:56, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
- Binksternet: I went through the sources again, but there is little to distinguish between the performers in terms of their importance to the style. Except for Canned Heat, ZZ Top, and a couple of others, most sources only mention boogie rock in passing ("XYZ, a boogie-rock group from ...,"), so trimming the list would be random. With a bit of reformatting, could this article just exist as a "List of boogie rock artists" with a prose section followed by a bulleted list? Otherwise, this may be OK as an article without the list (it did survive an AfD). Or just leave it be. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:44, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- In the same vein, would you consider List of boogie rock songs, with a smaller section of boogie rock albums? A bunch of bands only released one or two boogie rock songs, so they would be missed by the list of artists. One example is Cold War Kids "Mexican Dogs" from Loyalty to Loyalty.[1] Another is Black Sabbath "Sabbra Cadabra" from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.[2] One more: Pink Floyd's "Auto Scene Version 3" from the recording sessions of Zabriskie Point, finally appearing on the box set The Early Years 1965–1972.[3] Just an idea. Binksternet (talk) 18:06, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- One more song, not such a good one but boogie rock genre nonetheless: Ruben and the Jets doing "Mah Man Flash" on For Real!.[4] I'm sure someone somewhere lists "Boogie with Stu" by Zep on Physical Graffiti. No extra charge for mandolin. Binksternet (talk) 21:14, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- There must be dozens of boogie rock songs by performers not identified as boogie-rock groups. But I wonder if there are enough with a RS to justify a list. However, just listing the identified artists does give an incomplete (and possibly inaccurate) picture, so I've removed them. Reliably sourced songs and albums which show some rationale would be a better approach, such as this. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:13, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Binksternet: I went through the sources again, but there is little to distinguish between the performers in terms of their importance to the style. Except for Canned Heat, ZZ Top, and a couple of others, most sources only mention boogie rock in passing ("XYZ, a boogie-rock group from ...,"), so trimming the list would be random. With a bit of reformatting, could this article just exist as a "List of boogie rock artists" with a prose section followed by a bulleted list? Otherwise, this may be OK as an article without the list (it did survive an AfD). Or just leave it be. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:44, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- Shifting the focus to songs and albums would actually be more informative than just listing the artists, but I don't see RS for them (I've come across this before: although an artist is identified with a genre/subgenre/style, none of their albums or songs are). Let me try to work on it, place less emphasis on the artists or trim them to the most representative to make it less "listy", etc. If that doesn't work, merging it into Blues rock would be the next best. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:56, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
- Another solution is to list boogie rock songs or albums. Binksternet (talk) 01:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
- Four other solutions might be removing this topic from classification as a music subgenre, or merging the material into Boogie (genre) as a new 1960s–1970s history section, or merging it into Boogie where it already talks about boogie rock bands, or merging it into Blues rock as a subsection within the 1960s–1970s section. All of these involve changes of classification that make me uncomfortable. It would be going against some reliable sources that describe boogie rock as a subgenre of blues rock, for instance this music genre tree and this genre map which says about blues rock that "smaller subgenres were eventually formed as well, such as the piano blues–based boogie rock." Perhaps we just leave it be. Binksternet (talk) 18:18, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Alternate definition
[edit]In Status Quo: Mighty Innovators of 70s Rock, author Andrew L. Cope outlines a definition of "boogie rock" that is unrelated to Hooker and "Boogie Chillen".[5] Instead, he traces its development from a "12-bar riff" (his term for a "boogie shuffle" or "boogie bass pattern", i.e., a "fifth–sixth degrees of a major scale oscillation above the root chord"), that is a simplified version of the classic piano boogie rhythm figure from the 1920s–30s, such as in "Honky Tonk Train Blues". He cites "examples of 12-bar riffs used in a rock 'n' roll context" as "Johnny B. Goode" and "Roll Over Beethoven" (other authors, such as Birnbaum, have shown the influence of boogie or boogie woogie through jump blues upon early R&R).
Cope then attempts to define boogie rock as "incorporating a boogie/swing/shuffle rhythm to contrast the straight eighths rhythm of rock 'n' roll, and a harder-edged, more serious blues-rock element". He gives several Status Quo songs as examples ("Junior's Wailing", "Mean Girl", "Don't Waste My Time", "Softer Ride", and "Break the Rules"), all of which feature prominent rhythm guitar shuffle riffs.
A problem with this definition is that the Hooker-derived songs now reliably sourced in the article (Canned Heat's signature "Fried Hockey Boogie", "Spirit in the Sky", and "La Grange") don't meet it. Other songs that have been mentioned, such as "Sabbra Cadabra", "Smokin'", "Hot for Teacher", etc., also would not fit with this definition.