Talk:Boilersuit

This article was nominated for merging with Jumpsuit on 18 December 2014. The result of the discussion was not merged.

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested merge. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the merge request was: not merged to jumpsuit. Snowsuit Wearer (talk|contribs) 11:50, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested merge: Jumpsuits and boilersuits

Aren't jumpsuits and boilersuits essentially the same kind of suit? I think they should be dealt with in the same article. Järnkanin (talk) 13:43, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Seems reasonable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Over the Bow (talk • contribs) 09:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I would also support this. It seems, two persons agreeing are not enough to form a consensus, since the merge template has been removed without any merge being made. I wonder how many are needed. Snowsuit Wearer (talk|contribs) 00:31, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's three that support and none that oppose. Oknazevad, who removed the merge template on the basis "No consensus for merge after 7+ months", has since clarified: "More a case that no one acted on it for 7 months. It was a stale tag, either way. There comes a point where if someone proposes a merge, and there's no objection, then they should actually perform the merge. Just tagging it and expecting someone else to actually do the work is rude. So the tag was stale, and therefore removed." So it seems there is consensus to merge the articles, but it requires someone to do it. I have restored the merge template on both articles in the meantime in case anyone else wishes to comment.

There remains the question how to complete the merge. According to the articles, boilersuit (also coveralls or overalls) refers to a loose-fitting garment whereas jumpsuit refers to "tight and fashionable suits". How can the lead be reconstructed to reflect both uses? Snowsuit Wearer, will you take the lead on this? —sroc 💬 15:05, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, my apologies for the careless edit summary.

That leads to the other questions I have. So it seems that there's agreement that we should have one article covering pretty much all one-piece, full body suits, which might also include flight suits, since that's from where jumpsuits were derived, remembering that "jump suit" was originally a literal term; it was the suit worn by someone jumping out of a plane long before it became a supposedly fashionable item (though it's very much a minor item in the world of fashion). Is that the agreement? One article for all variants, with maybe a split off article for the specialized, specific flight suit?

Secondly, what to call the combined article? The current "boilersuit" title might be problematic. Not just because it's ENGVAR is not universal (I don't think any of the options are really universal), but because it is a pretty specificity utilitarian variety of coverall, and does not accurately describe the use of one-piece garments as fashion (which again is a pretty niche women's clothing item). So there's definitely something to be argued about having separate articles, which may be why they're separate in the first place. I don't know, I'm just a guy who saw a 7 month old tag and thought "if no one has actually followed up on it by this point, then it's a dead letter". oknazevad (talk) 17:05, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I hadn't actually really thought about the points you are making now, sroc about the problems it might prove to be to write a correct lead to the article and oknazevad about the differences there are between the two words even if they also are very much alike. I think I want to reconsider this and am not sure I am all for a merge anymore. I'll give it some thought. Snowsuit Wearer (talk|contribs) 18:01, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with merge, as the articles cover the same topic in a general way (i.e. we would not merge in flight suit, too, since it is about a specific topical subset of garments in this class in a specific context). However, "jumpsuit" is the WP:COMMONNAME, by a landslide [1] [2] [3], so it should merge in the other direction. Also agree that the lead needs to be constructed properly. The primary topic is obviously the loose-fitting garment, while "tight and fashionable suits" pertains primarily to the "Fashion" section, in which the topic actually strongly overlaps with catsuit, like what the photo of Suzi Quatro actually shows. PS: "Vote counting" is generally not productive on Wikipedia; what matters is the rationales given. PPS: The word "jumpsuit", though it originated in a specific context like "flight suit" did, is no longer limited to it and is used in everyday English for garments unrelated to skydiving. If we actually had a Flight suit-style article about the suits used by skydivers, it would likely be at "Jumpsuit (skydiving)" or "Jumpsuit (parachuting)", assuming "jumpsuit" is even still the term that people in that field primarily use for what they wear when jumping. But we have no such article; weirdly enough, there isn't even a section for it yet. Googling around, I do see them called "jumpsuits", but also "skydiving suits", and classified at least two different ways with more specific terms. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 00:03, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But what about the other possible names, which aren't accounted for in those n-grams, namely "coverall(s)" and "overall". Can't really claim one is a landslide unless all posibilities are accounted for. Indeed, when "coveralls" and "overalls" are added to the n-gram search, "overalls" winds by a landslide. [4] Problem is, that term has slightly different meanings in different dialects (BrEng: full body one-piece suit vs AmEng: bib-and-brace trousers), so it isn't clear if it really is the most common term for this type of clothing; indeed, the name is currently used for the bib-and-brace type. "Coveralls" is the second most common, but I don't know how widely used or recognized it is in the UK. "Jumpsuit" is notably less used. Significantly, "boilersuit" is so far below the others, it just seems like it's use fails WP:COMMONNAME from a world wide standpoint; it seems a particular Britishism, and should probably be avoided as a poor choice. Either way, the name is up in the air, as no ideal name is overwhelmingly obvious. oknazevad (talk) 00:38, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The use of terms is not even always consistent in the work of the same author. I read Ben Bova's novel Moonrise and then its sequel Moonwar. In the first, people on the moon base were described as wearing jumpsuits and in the second they suddenly wore coveralls instead. So if professional writers can't decide what term to use, how can Wikipedia? I don't know what word is best used. Skogsvandraren (talk) 06:39, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested split. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.