Talk:Black Widow (2021 film)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Scarlett Johansson Interview

Food for thought: Collider article DinoSlider (talk) 12:20, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Daily Mail source for Johansson pay day

Per WP:DAILYMAIL, it says that consensus is to exclude using Daily Mail as a source as it is generally unreliable. However, the closing note does give some leeway, but I don't think it can be used here. I have not outright removed the source and info, simply hidden it. A quick Google search on my end did not produce any other reliable publication (like the trades) reporting this, so I felt it was best to hide for now. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 05:36, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

I also thought this was a bit iffy, but I'm personally not sure whether to remove it or not. Essentially, WP:DAILYMAIL says we shouldn't be using this unless we feel it is a special instance, and I don't know if I believe this specific article is definitely reliable or not. - adamstom97 (talk) 06:25, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

I think the article said it was from their exclusive unnamed source, and yeah the trades have unnamed sources too, but with being the Daily Mail, I think we should be more skeptical it is reliable. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:32, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

The film's setting

According to THR, it will be set before the events of The Avengers (2012). Is it worth mentioning? --Kailash29792 (talk) 05:59, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

I did add it earlier, but Favre1fan93 removed it with this edit. - adamstom97 (talk) 07:12, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

I removed it because it is still speculative. THR's article even says is reportedly set. I think we should wait until there is more concrete info regarding it. And we do have material about a potential prequel. But everyone in the media is assuming this. Marvel, Schaeffer, or Johansson have not officially confirmed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:45, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Namespace

As it appears that this film is nearing the start of production, we should go ahead and settle on the correct namespace. According to Black widow#Film and television, there are at least a half dozen over films named "Black Widow". Obviously, the correct name space would be Black Widow (XXXX film) but since we currently do not have a release date, I suggest Black Widow (upcoming film) or the like.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 19:54, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Black Widow (upcoming film) would be correct for right now, and then (most likely) it will be Black Widow (2020 film). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:28, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Did you already consider this source not concrete enough? I'm just checking. If it's not, then we'll keep waiting. CAJH (talk) 08:49, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

That is the assumption that everyone is making, but no one has made it official yet. - adamstom97 (talk) 10:02, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Film title

Do we have confirmation that Black Widow is actually the film's title? Most sources simply seem to say 'Black Widow film/movie'. 2.51.22.64 (talk) 06:18, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

It's just a way of referring to the film. It is a Black Widow movie. It's not necessarily an indicator that it's untitled. Typically. articles would say it like that. "Johansson will star in the presently untitled Black Widow movie" for example. Rusted AutoParts 17:52, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Principal photography begun

According to this article, Black Widow will begin filming in Norway this week. - Richiekim (talk) 23:27, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Updated: The Movie is right now in Budapest, Hungary for shooting/filming. Set photos and videos made that clear: Source https://twitter.com/okbanana/status/1143566202033205248/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1143831900328349696&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomicbook.com%2Fmarvel%2F2019%2F06%2F26%2Fnew-black-widow-photos-possibly-new-mcu-villain%2F — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.203.255.102 (talk) 18:25, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Yelena Belova

Leaked set photos show crates that say Natasha and Yelena on them, and there's a picture of Florence with Scarlett on a motorcycle.

Florence is obviously playing Yelena, and its been heavily foreshadowed in source material and interviews, so why not simply add the credit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:8400:6D4:290F:EA9B:CF06:5E2B (talk) 01:06, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Because it isn't officially confirmed yet (and also not confirmed by the actors in any capacity), however obvious it may seem. DeluxeVegan (talk) 10:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

As Much As I Insisted To Add It, I Decided Not To. Because It’s Still Just Fans Speculating Over Set Photos And Videos. So...You Know, Not Fully Confirmed Yet. Sanhok (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:06, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Clint Barton / Hawkeye Appearance

Recently I Found This One Source While Surfing The Internet (), Reporting That Jeremy Renner Will Reprise The Role Of Hawkeye In This Movie. But If This In Fact Is True, Other Website Will Start Covering This News, But I Can’t Find Not One Single Same News. This Makes Me Hesitant. So In Conclusion, Should I Add This Into The Main Article? Or Just Wait Until It’s Fully Confirmed? Any Suggestions? Sanhok (talk) 13:45, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Best to wait until it is officially confirmed by a more reliable source. Trailblazer101 (talk) 15:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Release date

Is it right to add the fact that the film is expected to be released sometime in 2020? WikiSmartLife (talk) 09:19, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

is iron man in this,robert jr or not.?

@196.62.73.244: almost certainly not, but we don't know. --Mazewaxie 16:46, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Concerning Melina and Mason

Look I know there is a lot of confusion surrounding this two characters, it’s clear that these two minor characters are Rick Mason and Melina Vostokoff, as many minor news outlets have reported that they will appear in the film, two there literally only one Melina in the comics who is Russian and has roots with black widow, that would be Melina Vostokoff, also there only one shield agent who goes by Mason, none other than Rick Mason. Additionally there’s only one Melina in the comics who’s name is spelled as Melina and that is Vostokoff. TreeStump23 (talk) 16:59, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Despite how likely it is for those to be their names in the film, it has not been officially confirmed by any of the crew, and at Comic-Con, Kevin Feige only confirmed them to be "Mason" and "Melina". Saying anything else would just be jumping the gun, as it hasn't been officially stated to be so. Screen Rant has a common track record of inserting speculation in their articles, and this is one case of them. Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:04, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

At this point your just being highly irrational I’m just stating the facts there’s only one shield agent in the entire marvel comics run who goes by Mason and there only one Melina who’s name is spelt like that, and there plenty of websites reporting that those characters will appear, it doesn’t have to be entertainment weekly or Hollywood reporter for it to be reliable. TreeStump23 (talk) 17:10, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

What your trying to say it has to come from either Hollywood reporter, entertainment weekly or variety for it to be reliable? TreeStump23 (talk) 17:11, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Feige has only ever referred to the character as "Mason". Lots of sites have mistakenly called him "Rick Mason", making logical assumptions and spreading them as facts, despite Marvel Studios having not confirmed this to be true. Unless an official source from Marvel Studios says so, we cannot add that he is "Rick Mason". Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:13, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Seriously your just being ridiculous do you need a hand written note from Feige himself??? TreeStump23 (talk) 17:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

References

Any confirmation from Feige, the director/writer, or Marvel Studios. Are the other entertainment portals making the film? If not, how do they know something that was never officially announced? That's right, its a plain rumor/speculation, and Wikipedia is not the place for rumors (WP:What Wikipedia is not) and looking into the future. Perhaps it may be a marketing gimmick, but that is not for us to decide. DeluxeVegan (talk) 08:08, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

"Untitled Black Widow film" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Untitled Black Widow film. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 00:10, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 December 2019

Release Date: April 30 2020(India) Visakh Vijayan (talk) 11:15, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NiciVampireHeart 12:21, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Teaser trailer

Should information about the new teaser trailer be put in the marketing section of the article? If not, where? MarvelGeek5321 (talk) 19:05, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, but it must be accompanied by critical commentary. Otherwise, the release of a standard trailer is not that noteworthy. See WP:FILMMARKETING for more. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:23, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Like Adam said, merely mentioning that a trailer exists is not sufficient criteria for inclusion per WP:FILMMARKETING.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 19:40, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2020

The release date has been postponed bc of COVID 71.245.161.100 (talk) 17:17, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please specify what you want to change (e.g. when has it been postponed to?) and please provide a reliable source which verifies that information. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:53, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

"Black widow 2020" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Black widow 2020. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 14#Black widow 2020 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Release section

The release section states that, "Black Widow was scheduled for release in the United States on May 1, 2020, but was delayed due the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic", but then goes on to say that, "Scott Mendelson at Forbes highlighted how the trailer's existence and use of the May 2020 release date confirmed that the film was not being delayed". This seems self-contradictory. I don't understand how both of those two claims can possibly be true. Freeknowledgecreator (talk) 07:50, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Clearly the second part was out of date. I have updated the section now. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:10, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Ray Winstone role

I saw this today, but I haven't been able to find the magazine or another source to confirm its validity. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:07, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

I found this article that showcases each page of the issue, confirming Winstone's role with the line on page 6: "There, Shortland's team built the '60s-inspired offices of Ray Winstone's Deykov, head of the Red Room". It also details other notes on the characters. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:28, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

@Trailblazer101: Thanks! I'll look it over and for the time being, source the magazine itself for Ray Winstone and any other good info. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:46, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

This one's the page. El Millo (talk) 16:58, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Composer

I noticed on the updated poster with the new November date, Desplat is still in the billing block as the film's composer. Obviously don't know any behind the scenes things, but I would feel if Balfe had actually taken over for him, this would be the opportunity to update the billing block... Something to keep in the back of our minds. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:57, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

I was gonna say the same thing, perhaps we should reinstate Desplat to the infobox? This kinda throws into question now the reliability of Film Music Reporter. Rusted AutoParts 00:28, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

I've never seen anything from Film Music Reporter to make me question them to source, but I'd support making some adjustments. Perhaps Desplat back in the infobox, and just prose about Balfe in the Music section? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:11, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

We can say there have been reports on the replacement, but that it wasn't confirmed by the studio or something to that effect. El Millo (talk) 01:34, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

I think we should put it back to Desplat per Disney for now, but list Balfe as potentially providing additional music. - adamstom97 (talk) 01:38, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Change looks good Adam. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:54, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

@Favre1fan93, Facu-el Millo, and Adamstom.97: Pinging all of you as some changes to the composer parameter in the infobox are pending. I see these sources here (Empire Online, Flickering Myth), though I do not know how reliable they are. Doing a Google search for "lorne balfe black widow" gets me hits which all say that Balfe has replaced Desplat on the first page alone. Would it be safe to say that Balfe is confirmed to be the new composer? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:14, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

As discussed before, since Desplat was still included in the updated poster after the first reports about Balfe, it was decided to hold of on swapping him out. Rusted AutoParts 19:17, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Gotcha; no worries then. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:26, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah. We're not exactly sure because as I said in the initial comment, it was known when Marvel changed the release date and updated the poster that Balfe may be involved somehow, and if he was, that was the opportunity to adjust the poster. Thus, we don't really know what his role is, if he outright replaced Desplat or perhaps is co-composing with him. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:23, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Desplat himself confirmed he was replaced by Balfe. - Richiekim (talk) 12:28, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

@Richiekim: Thanks! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:12, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2020

Black Widow will be released on Disney Plus on April 16th 2021 2607:FEA8:7C0:7F:2D3B:F420:A328:E10A (talk) 18:23, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done as unsourced. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:30, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2021

Andrea Corpus (talk) 13:39, 15 February 2021 (UTC) Hi !

Hi !!! Hope your doing good This is Andrea corpus I would like to edit the page of black widow's release date and add some information to it.

Please do let me edit it.

 Not done Please specify what you want to be changed in an "X to Y" format. We aren't in control of who gets to edit protected articles. Trailblazer101 (talk) 13:49, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

New Poster

Please replace the current Poster with the November 2020 release date, to the new one with the July release date here; https://twitter.com/MarvelStudios/status/1374429041877389320/photo/1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charleealex (talk • contribs) 20:30, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

It's already there. You many need to clear you browser's cache to see the changes (WP:REFRESH and WP:PURGE). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:58, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

New girl

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Who is the new girl in the new 1 minute footage "you have a plan?" Released by marvel? Does anyone know the actress. Samudragupta007 (talk) 11:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I think you might be referring to Florence Pugh who plays Black Widow (Yelena Belova).--TriiipleThreat (talk) 12:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

No man, I have known who Florence Pugh is since SDCC 2019. I was talking about the girl who was chasing them on the bike and who's face was shown for a brief instant. Samudragupta007 (talk) 10:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

*whose Samudragupta007 (talk) 10:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

That character's identity hasn't been confirmed yet, but I assume she's one of the other Black Widows. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:44, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Not relevant to improving the article, but I assume Melina Vostokoff. IronManCap (talk) 13:32, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Probably Melina Vostokoff or maybe a goon of Taskmaster or Dreykov Mighty Asgardian616 (talk) 01:26, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Scarlett Johansson as a Producer

During the red carpet interview with ET, Kevin Feige mentioned that Scarlett Johansson is a producer on the film. Should we add her in the infobox now or should we wait to see the exact credit in the film? For reference, here's the video, around 0:24. — Starforce¹³ 16:26, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Per the poster, Johansson is credited as an executive producer. It's unlikely that has changed, so Feige was probably just speaking generally about having her work in the producer sphere. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:40, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes more sense. I hadn't noticed she's credited as an EP in the poster. — Starforce¹³ 16:45, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2021

Pls do add 2021 superhero film produced by Marvel Studios in the description and do change the caption Official release poster as Theatrical release poster. 116.68.75.120 (talk) 08:50, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Short description has changed, caption request is incorrect as it has a simultaneous release in theaters and on Disney+, of which the poster reflects that. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:30, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Press kit now available

For anyone who's already seen the film, or just wants to work on adding in some info, the film's press kit is now up. You can access it here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:07, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

The first thing that jumps out to me in the production notes it says "Based on the beloved Marvel comic-book series first published in 1964". I wonder if we should reword the based on credits in the infobox if the screen credits use similar wording.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 21:04, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

The opening credits use the "Based on the Marvel Comics" that was used in Captain Marvel and the Disney+ shows. - Richiekim (talk) 03:50, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Robert Downey Jr. does not appear in the final film.

Why is a source needed? The film is the primary source Sleptlapps (talk) 14:26, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

The article no longer says he appears. I'm not sure what your concern is. IronManCap (talk) 14:49, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

The article said citation needed but it's been addressed; someone made an edit after I pointed out the error. Sleptlapps (talk) 15:31, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

No, we do actually need to cite a source for that. The point of the citation needed tag is that it is correct (which is why it is there), but it should still be supported by a reliable source. IronManCap (talk) 15:45, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

I have now added a reliable source (The Guardian) to support the statement. IronManCap (talk) 15:56, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, good to know. Sleptlapps (talk) 13:27, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Rick Mason

Checking Rick Mason at Marvel.com, it seems clear that, even though it's not mentioned or credited in the film, Rick Mason is still the character's full name. Shouldn't we include it here? We have reliable sources to back it up, and we don't need to follow the credits to the letter. Check that Alexei is only credited as "Alexei" and Melina just as "Melina", but we still include their surnames if we have them. —El Millo (talk) 17:49, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds ok to me. I'll note that a similar thing happened for Brock Rumlow at Captain America: The Winter Soldier, but his full name was later confirmed for other articles. IronManCap (talk) 18:56, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree that we should call him "Rick Mason", as the credits don't always list the full names of characters. As for the Rumlow thing, just take a look at this. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:06, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Alexei we hear his last name in the Russian prison, so that's not a similar comparison. Melina, I don't recall if we hear or see her last name anywhere, but if not, if we have an actor or creative saying what it is, I'd say that could stay (if not, we might need to reevaluate). The thing with Mason is he's never named in the film at all, and the credits simply say "Mason", so unless an actor or creative mention him as "Rick Mason", I think we might be dealing with a WP:SYNTH situation. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:15, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

We have official links in Rick Mason at Marvel.com and this official tweet from the Black Widow account, and we have tons of reliable secondary sources: The Guardian, Inverse, MSN, Collider, Yahoo!, CNET, to name a few. In an interview with Digital Spy, Fagbenle talks about the original Rick Mason referring to the comics counterpart of his film character; the article says: Rick Mason will be a familiar name to Marvel Comics fans, but OT Fagbenle has explained that his Rick isn't exactly the same as the series' 'Agent (Rick Mason)', and is instead more of an "original creation". I think this is more than enough to call the character "Rick Mason". —El Millo (talk) 22:36, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Another interview with Fagbenle, talking about the character: ... That's really what brought Rick Mason to the screen. —El Millo (talk) 22:41, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I had yet to fully investigate what secondary sources were saying, but you've presented a bunch that look good. We just need one in article for sure in the casting section to support the name "Rick" because, as I said, it's not in the credits, and no one calls him that in the film. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:55, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I'll add the Digital Spy one, as it states his character's full name and it's also an interview with him. —El Millo (talk) 18:57, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

PVOD viewership

Should we include the film's $60 million global Premier Access haul in the the "PVOD viewership" section? Blowscalls (talk) 21:31, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

The section has since been changed to "Disney+ revenue and viewership", so yes. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:57, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Possible Grammatical Error

Release Section, Last Paragraph, "Then". 103.26.224.78 (talk) 10:20, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

The box office amount should only include the revenues from theaters

Amount from Disney Premier access is not included in this. However, multiple users are adding that to this. Surge_Elec (talk) 01:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

That note added at the place of the box office with the "total revenue" is good. Surge_Elec (talk) 20:22, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Agreed They are trying to crook the numbers. The note including the comprehensive totals is good enough. Otherwise to keep things fair , all other films would have their Streaming numbers, DvD and Merch sales included in their final totals. Hpdh4 (talk) 12:37, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Glad you agree. Surge_Elec (talk) 10:32, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Actual opening weekend totals.

I don't understand why it is not worth putting the actual opening weekend total of $80.4 million in the United States and Canada along with sources that confirm it. All major films with articles here on this website had their weekend debuts totals updated after actuals were released. I could list them, but they are just too many too count. And1987 (talk) 17:47, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Unkown character

The plot mentions a "Ross" character, but whoever wrote the plot neglected to say anything more about him. There's no information about this "Ross"character in the Cast Section either. Who is he? Is he General "Thunderbolt" Ross , enemy of The Hulk? Or someone else all together? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drumerwritter (talk • contribs) 22:52, July 15, 2021 (UTC)

The plot clearly says She escapes from U.S. Secretary of State Thaddeus Ross, while there is an entry on Ross in the Cast section. Please read more carefully. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:56, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Box office

The amount shown on box office mojo includes theatrical revenue as well as revenue from streaming. Should just the theatrical revenue, or both be shown here?

Also, does this streaming revenue include revenue from Disney+ Premier Access? Surge_Elec (talk) 03:04, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

The streaming revenue is from Disney+ Premier Access. Regarding the first question, I'm not sure. Perhaps if most outlets start treating the theatrical and streaming revenue as a whole we should do the same, but not until that happens. —El Millo (talk) 03:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Ok. Surge_Elec (talk) 04:25, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Does Ursa Major (character) appear in this film?

This article links to that character based on the assumption that a character named Ursa who another character compares to a bear, is the same character from the comics. A mention of this appears on the character's article as well. Screen Rant is being used as a source to support this inclusion, based on the sentence "As he does so, he calls the prisoner Ursa and refers to him as "the great bear", making the unlucky prisoner the MCU's version of Ursa Major, a mutant with the ability to turn into a bear, who was also a Soviet super-soldier in the comics", but I would like to see if people feel this is a valid conclusion (that the are the same character, and therefore we should be linking to him and including a reference to the film on his article) or if this is not a valid conclusion (that we should not be linking to that character's article from this article, nor including a reference to the film on his article). My personal feeling is that this is a trivial easter egg, and a non-appearance for the character, so we should not be linking to him or referencing the film on his article, but since there is opposition to removing it, this needs to be discussed and a consensus reached. 98.32.192.121 (talk) 19:39, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree and I've added a "better source needed" tag. ScreenRant is clearly just speculating, like they always do, and that shouldn't be taken as a confirmation that this is truly Ursa Major. — Starforce¹³ 19:51, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

As I've stated about this matter at the WikiProject Comics talk, a new reliable source explicitly stating this is Ursa Major should be found. We are not to judge what it is, as that's WP:OR. There are sources stating this is based on Ursa Major, but they are questionable, despite their reliability. I am still searching for a better source. I don't think we need to have a whole dispute on if this is an interpretation of Ursa Major so long a reliable source confirms such, which can take time for them to be made available. There's WP:NORUSH. Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:19, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Based on a reading of WP:NORUSH, it primarily applies to creating or deleting articles, not to finding sources. 207.229.139.154 (talk) 04:00, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

If all we have to support a claim is a listicle-pumping website that's clamoring to tell us the top five Easter Eggs that only true Marvel fans will notice, and the editor adding it admits we need a better source and is citing NO RUSH, why are we in a hurry to include it here and at Ursa Major? I support removing it, or commenting it out until a trustworthy source notes it. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:05, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Agree with Argento Surfer here, this is cited to a purely speculative article. We should wait until some confirmation from Marvel or some more reliably sourced info to include this. IronManCap (talk) 13:40, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Well well, the actor who plays "Ursa" has seemingly confirmed in this Instagram post that he plays Ursa Major. However, he also claims that Ursa is the "first mutant" to appear in the MCU, so I'm not sure if we should just take his word for it. Thoughts? InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:49, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

This Games Radar article raises the same concern too - that he could be mistaken since the film didn't reveal him as such. So, his name may be more of an easter egg, than the actual first mutant in the MCU. And if we're going by mutants based on the comics, then the first ones would be Billy and Tommy (if we don't count the Maximoff twins). So, I kind of want to wait to hear from Marvel themselves on this. — Starforce¹³ 13:18, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

I think this is good enough to say that the character is Ursa Major, but not necessarily that it's the first mutant. Per GamesRadar: It is worth noting, however, that Richters may be mistaken. He is playing Ursa Major, but Marvel are seemingly keen to keep mutants under wraps for the time being. IronManCap (talk) 15:02, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Quick Facts-Based On

This isn’t a big deal but I’d recommend adding “ Black Widow (Natasha Romanova)” to the based on section in Quick Facts. CyberSecurityGuy (talk) 15:09, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I think you are referring to the infobox. Per consensus from discussions, we go per the credits for each film for this. The credits of this film say Based on the Marvel Comics, so we have Marvel Comics in that parameter. This is similar to the situation for Captain Marvel. For ones such as Iron Man, the credits say Based on the Marvel Comic Book by Stan Lee, Larry Lieber, Don Heck and Jack Kirby, which are the creators of the Iron Man character, so we can add "Iron Man" in the |Based on= parameter. IronManCap (talk) 15:30, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I could be wrong, but was this the first MCU film that had the "based on" credits so visible? I know this film was a bit of the outlier in using opening credits, not main-on-end, but I don't recall any other film having the "based on" credit so prominent. I was waiting to need to confirm what it said at the end of the scrolling credits. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:59, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I also don't recall any film with the "based on" credit so prominent, although they are quite visible for Loki. I also think Marvel may be switching to the Based on the Marvel Comics credit for all their projects now. IronManCap (talk) 13:28, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

The "Based on the Marvel Comics" credit is visible on all the Disney+ shows so far. - Richiekim (talk) 18:06, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

The credit for Howard the Duck was really prominent at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy, but I don't think that could be helped without spoiling the surprise. Argento Surfer (talk) 15:42, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

@Argento Surfer: that was a "Character created by X" credit, not the "Based on" credit the opening titles in this film used (and other films have put at the end of the credits). Having it in the opening credits was very reminiscent of how TV series do it. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:16, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm confused on why everyone is saying that the "Based on" credit in Black Widow is so prominent, as it's been present in every main title sequence in the MCU since Avengers: Age of Ultron with the exception of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:52, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

It's just been a while since a film, and being in a Disney+ "headspace", it just seemed odd to me. But you are correct, I looked back at some past films to see and they have "Based on" in the main on end credits. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:37, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

The only thing that was actually really odd was that the credits were at the beginning of the film in that long montage instead of at the end. I'm pretty sure that had never happened before in the MCU. —El Millo (talk) 19:03, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Not to be pedantic, but opening credits were used in The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, and the two Guardians films. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:45, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh apparently I haven't seen those in a while. —El Millo (talk) 20:29, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Black Widow missing info

In the film, they say that the two sisters are sterilized. Shouldn't that be noted in the synopsis? - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 06:28, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I've added it into the article. I realise that it is mentioned in Age of Ultron for Romanoff, but Belova wasn't a character in that movie. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 06:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

See WP:FILMPLOT: The plot summary is an overview of the film's main events, so avoid minutiae like dialogue, scene-by-scene breakdowns, individual jokes, and technical detail. This detail isn't relevant to the overall plot. —El Millo (talk) 06:35, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Except it is part of the plot, because it shows that Shostakov isn't aware of what they have done to his daughters (fake a relationship though it may have been). This is a theme that runs through the entire film. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 06:37, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Per WP:BRD, you've made a WP:BOLD edit and been reverted, you should discuss here before reinstating your edit. —El Millo (talk) 06:41, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Hard to discuss when my talk page comments are deleted. I have modified the detail. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 06:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Notice that now we are actually discussing changes to the article, unlike your original opening of this discussion, where you just said: Does it not shock anyone that the two women were sterilised? They talk about this on the helicopter. —El Millo (talk) 06:46, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Notice that after that statement I explained further why I thought it was relevant to the article? - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 06:53, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

And I wasn't the one that removed it the second time. Plus, after I answered you started complaining about being reverted before instead of continuing discussing the topic. —El Millo (talk) 06:55, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, we are discussing it now, as you say. One of my main concerns is that if the material is removed (feel free to), then this discussion won't have been recorded so someone else with the same view as myself may feel the need to readd it. Then you can't point them to this discussion... because you removed it. So my suggestion is: remove the material after explaining on talk how it is not a part of the film's key themes, and keep this discussion here so others are aware of it. Not much to ask, is it?

The problem, of course, is that I felt it was important. So, indeed, I was bold and added the material. Now it is being discussed. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 06:58, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

We try to include in the plot summary only things essential to understanding the plot. Not key themes or character beats important for character development. There are many important scenes from a character standpoint, such as the conversation in the bedroom between Yelena and Alexei or everything related to the vest Yelena gives to Natasha. We don't include those, because they are not relevant to the understanding of the plot as written here as concisely as possible. If readers want to feel for the characters, they'll have to watch the film. This is just for knowing basically what happens in the film, and we only include details like these if they are crucial to understanding the main plot. The one you added and the examples I gave aren't crucial to understanding the main plot. —El Millo (talk) 07:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

OK, I shall remove the material. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 07:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Lawsuit

Someone should add the news that Johansson is suing over lost compensation eminating from the day-and date Disney+ Premiere release: https://deadline.com/2021/07/scarlett-johansson-walt-disney-co-black-widow-lawsuit-1234802440/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:160:e728:2::161:2cf6 (talk) 20:37, 29 July, 2021 (UTC)

It's already detailed in the "Release" section. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:38, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

It is under Release already. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 08:03, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Here's some good analysis from THR that might be worth adding in. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:42, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

 Added in IronManCap (talk) 21:29, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Consideration should be given before including such information, if at all. The lawsuit might warrant an entirely separate article, as time goes on. Lengthily (an entire paragraph that takes up the same amount of text of describing the timeline of events) including the opined analysis of one reporter might be WP:UNDUE on a singular perspective, especially when it's so early on in legal proceedings. Variety also did a roundup of responses. But no author or expert can WP:CRYSTALBALL into discovering what's actually going to happen with the case.--Bettydaisies (talk) 21:49, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

THR and co are reputable sources, and I don't see how using their analysis is in anyway WP:CYRSTAL. Yes, of course we should provide a wider range of viewpoints to avoid a WP:UNDUE problem, and more analysis and views will come about as the case goes on. IronManCap (talk) 00:29, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Bob Iger and Kevin Feige

Hey @Adamstom.97:

I get that term "top executive" is not perfect, but I wouldn't want to refer to Iger as executive chairman, because I believe that some will confuse the title with chairman of the board and the majority will not at all know what it means. But I would definitely not address him as "former CEO", since Iger is still a member of the company and – as executive chair – Disney's ultimate operational authority.

Regarding Feige, while being mentioned several times in the 'Release' section, he has not been completely re-introduced (full name and link to his article) once in this section. As far as I know, a MOS guideline allows for the re-introduction of a person in every section of an article that is not a sub-section, but it has been a while since I last read the MOS so I'm not a 100% sure. Still, while I would be ok with omitting title and link, I would strongly support using his full name in the 'Lawsuit' subsection again; he generally plays a central role, but in this section he seemingly condemns the decision of his superiors, making disambiguation here even more pivotal. Colonestarrice (talk) 09:34, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Calling Iger the former CEO is a correct title. Feige does not need a link again per WP:DUPLINK. He's established in the development section as the first naming in the "Production" prose and does not need to be renamed or linked after. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 13:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I get the Feige part – as I said, I wasn't sure anymore on how the MOS handles 're-introductions' – but I'm still vehemently opposed to addressing Iger as "former CEO". While there is nothing inherently wrong about it, it is misleading since he is still Disney's highest-ranking corporate officer and that fact is substantially more important than him being former CEO. This is like naturally referring to Joe Biden as former U.S. senator; yes, it's not wrong, but I do believe him being the current president of the United States is considerably more relevant. Colonestarrice (talk) 15:55, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I would argue, though, that many casual readers will know him as the former CEO. TheWrap source does use the title "executive chairman" so we could use it. But I think within the context of it all, "former CEO" is better usage in this instance because the inclusion of his material is as a counter to current CEO Chapek's handling of the situation. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:26, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, how about "Disney chairman and former CEO Bob Iger" then? I know it's a bit lengthy, but it addresses both points. Also, 'executive' can be omitted as a prefix to 'chairman', since Iger serves in a dual capacity; as executive and board chair. Colonestarrice (talk) 16:44, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

That works for me. IronManCap (talk) 20:07, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

That works. — ChannelSpider (talk) 21:20, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Jade Xu

Should we add Jade Xu for her Black Widow role since she appeared in this film and Shang-Chi? AxGRvS (talk) 04:01, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I wouldn't oppose it. I added her at the Shang-Chi article, but there's a bit more relevance to her there since she's not one of many Widows there. I'd advise you be WP:BOLD and add her, and see if anyone reverts it and why. —El Millo (talk) 04:07, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I thought about adding her here after I initially added her to the Shang-Chi article, which was taken down until a source confirmed the character Helen was her (which I already picked up on when I saw it at a midnight screening of the film on August 31 at my theater). I suggest following what Facu said. If a revert does happen, a discussion can follow here. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:14, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

@Trailblazer101:  Done AxGRvS (talk) 06:47, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Minor revisions

I made a few minor revisions, and was disconcerted to see them reverted by Adamstom.97 with no comment other than his opinion it was not a "good version".

1. The opening of the film contains a sequence of successive revelations. I revised the plot summary to put the revelations into proper time sequence. 2. The women trained in the red room were consistently referred to in the film as the "Widows". Referring to them in the plot summary as "Black Widows" is picturesque, but inaccurate to the film. 3. The purported romantic interest of character Rick Mason in Natasha is not substantiated in the film. It was referred to as an "undercurrent" in one of the references given, and is not mentioned in the other two. Skepticalgiraffe (talk) 22:23, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

I've reverted back to the status quo ante. I've also swapped the Entertainment Weekly ref for the THR ref, which has much more information on the romantic past between Rick Mason and Romanoff, so that should be resolved. There's no need to list the revelations in successive form, if there's a more succint way of conveying the information than in the same succession as it's done in the film, then that succint way should be used. Whethet to refer as the women trained in the Red Room as Widows or Black Widows seems to be a superfluous debate, they're Black Widows but referred as Widows for short, using any of the two is basically the same. —El Millo (talk) 00:20, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

The order in which information is withheld and revealed is not an unimportant detail, but is integral to a film. Being succinct is admirable, but writing a good article is more important. I am completely unsure why you have a passion to keep it in the less accurate form. You can't possibly be serious in thinking that cutting 33 words from a 16,500 word long article at the price of making the plot summary reflect the film less accurately is a paramount consideration. Do you have an actual argument in favor of the text you prefer?

As far as I can tell, the women trained in the Red Room were never referred to as "black widows", but only as "widows". Very likely I missed it. Do you have the DVD? Do you have a time stamp for the dialogue in which they were called "black widows"?

The reference you added stated that there was a scene which made the romantic interest explicit, but that scene was left out of the film. Skepticalgiraffe (talk) 01:04, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

There's information about their romantic past throughout that whole interview. The actor's comments about the character, even if not explicit in the film, are relevant to the character description. The order in which information is withheld and revealed is not always relevant, and the plot summary is meant to be succint, keeping suspense and revealing things at the same time as the film does for dramatic effect is not to be done if it makes the section unnecessarily longer, however long the rest of the article is isn't relevant to the plot summary's length. Regarding the Widow / Black Widow situation, we have reliable sources and interviews with the actors that state they are called "Black Widows", such as this one from /Film already included in the article. They are Black Widows and they are commonly referred to as plainly Widows, we can use both terms interchangeably as we see fit thoughout the article, and we do. —El Millo (talk) 04:50, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Box office

Can we add the $67 million to the box office as well It is not included But it should be counted as it was on PREMIERE ACESS Which would put The box office At 379+67= $446 Million dollars. Ganduallah (talk) 18:49, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Revenue on streaming services isn't factored in as part of the box office gross. There's a footnote right next to the gross that clarifies the Premiere Access revenue. —El Millo (talk) 19:04, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

"Black Widow (upcoming film)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Black Widow (upcoming film) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 10#Black Widow (upcoming film) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 21:18, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Belova

Was this name in the film? If it's not in the film, has it been confirmed by another official source? Can't remember offhand if any characters have different names in the MCU compared to the comics (although this film was my introduction to Yelena), but the meaning of the acronyms S.W.O.R.D. and S.H.I.E.L.D. changed. Oh, and M.J.! and Molly Hayes, i think? Anyway, this article's use of the name felt a little jarring to me since it (maybe) wasn't in the film. --173.67.42.107 (talk) 12:50, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Haven't verified this on Disney+, but according to this, yes, the last name was mentioned once. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:24, 23 May 2023 (UTC)