Talk:Bethany

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Geography Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Geography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of geography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GeographyWikipedia:WikiProject GeographyTemplate:WikiProject Geographygeography articles

Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Geography To-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : See Requested articles/Social sciences/Geography, cities, regions and named places and Missing articles about Locations
Assess : Tag related article talk pages with {{WikiProject Geography}}. To help assess the quality and importance of geography articles, please see: Unassessed geography articles and Unknown-importance geography articles.
Cleanup : See Geography articles needing attention
Deletion sorting : Listed at Geographic related deletion discussions
Geographical coordinates : See Articles missing geocoordinate data by country
Infobox : See Geography articles needing infoboxes
Map : See Wikipedia requested maps
Notability : See Geography articles with topics of unclear notability
Photo : See Wikipedia requested photographs of places
Stubs : See Geography stubs

Palestine High‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Cities

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CitiesWikipedia:WikiProject CitiesTemplate:WikiProject CitiesWikiProject Cities articles

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Question

Is there a reason why my name has to appear in the edit summaries of you [Tiamut] moving paragraphs around or adding the {{reflist}}? Whether its intentional or not, adding references section Tewfik failed to add after moving material here from other article sounds very accusatory. Tewfik^Talk 17:19, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Needs present-day photo of the city

There needs to be a present-day landscape picture of Al-Eizariya that shows what the city looks like today. Right now all the page has is century-old postcards and a shot of the city from 65 years ago; none of these are very helpful for having an idea of what today's Al-Eizariya looks like. KBurchfiel (talk) 18:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What goes where?

There are several articles, with partly overlapping material:

We have to decide what goes where. (Also: there seems to be an abundance of dead links here), Cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:04, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Guerin-quote

Ok, I have added the link to Guerin in the article. The problem is that he (apparently?) discuss the whole history of Bethany etc. We need some French-speakers who can find what he actually found in Al-Eizariya at the time he visited. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:32, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Typos

"The general index to SWP" states that Al-Eizariya is mentioned in SWP III, p. 17 and 28. However, I cannot find anything on p.17 relating to it. Huldra (talk) 22:52, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Probably a typo for 27–28. Zero^talk 23:19, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Al-Eizariya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 18:19, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Al-Eizariya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101114002607/http://www.pcbs.gov.ps/Portals/_pcbs/census2007/ind_loca_09.pdf to http://www.pcbs.gov.ps/Portals/_pcbs/census2007/ind_loca_09.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:26, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I propose this page be renamed to "Bethany" instead of Al-Eizariya. One, the vast majority of speakers on this wiki are English, and the name "Bethany" is the English version of this location as opposed to Al-Ezariya. Second, there are more results for "Bethany, (West Bank, Palestine, Middle East, Biblical) than inserting Al-Eizariya. If I'm wrong, please let me know, otherwise I plan to make the change soon.

Heyoostorm (talk) 14:48, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since the move is likely to be disputed, please start a move discussion if you want to move it. Zero^talk 15:23, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is also my view that this article should be renamed "Bethany" since it is the more common name used in English for this site. Of course, if there is to be a name-change, the Arabic name (transliterated into English) will redirect to this article.Davidbena (talk) 03:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 January 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 04:52, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Al-Eizariya → Bethany – Since this is the English Wikipedia, it seems natural that we use here the well-known English name for this village, which is "Bethany" (mentioned in the New Testament), rather than use the lesser known Arabic name transliterated into English, seeing that it is NOT known by most English speakers. The English transliteration of the Arabic name, however, can and will be used as a redirect to the same article. Davidbena (talk) 04:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support the English name is still used today. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support, for reasons outlined above.Davidbena (talk) 14:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support for the reasons I mentioned above and as earlier proposer User:Heyoostorm^_talk! 18:13, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support Now that Bethany (biblical village) was merged into this article last year, see Talk:Bethany#Merge, this move makes sense. I have not seen figures but I assume, hopefully correctly, that "Bethany" is far more common in English than "Eizariya" or its several variants, even perhaps for the modern town. Wonder what @Oncenawhile: thinks, as he performed the merger of the two articles, and @Huldra: as she worked on this article significantly in the recent past. --Al Ameer (talk) 20:21, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am ok with the name change. The English name Bethany is clearly used locally for the purposes of tourism, and frankly it is much better known. Onceinawhile (talk) 23:34, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Most cities on English Wikipedia are known by their English name, not necessarily the language of their inhabitants, eg The Hage, Den Haag.84.13.228.253 (talk) 04:06, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: I am not very happy with a possible name-change: yes, "Bethany" is much better known, but "Al-Eizariya" is the local name, and the ARIJ name. We have normally followed the ARIJ name; I don't see strong enough reason to change that, in this case, Huldra (talk) 23:45, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support Even though I don't much like biblical place names and a search in Google for Bethany gives this article with it's current name. Still, if we must.Selfstudier (talk) 15:37, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Area C and Al Ka’abina

Hi @Huldra:

A few years ago in this edit you wrote that most of the town / 87.3% of the land is in Area C. I would like to make the text clearer around this topic because it is not consistent with the picture shown in this map.

I have two questions to clarify:

Presumably when we talk about "most of the town" we are really talking about the historic village land? I believe the urban area itself is mostly Area A and B
The underlying source includes "Al Ka’abina" in the statistics, with a total land area of 27,816 dunums. The map on Page 4 of the source explains that this relates to the Tajammu' Bedouin community, and shows a rather odd C-shape for the combined village boundaries, which I can't map easily to the 1940s SoP version.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also pinging @Zero0000: in case of interest. Onceinawhile (talk) 00:58, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, interesting. (<-translated: I have no idea!

). I took the 87.3% from ARIJ, as I am sure you have seen. As for this map; yeah, there is little blue there(=area C); but if you count Ma'ale Adummim (and Mishor Adummim) (presently red) then that could add up? Btw; that section of the map is probably far too small; As Mishor Adummim is built on Bethany land, but is not part of the map, Huldra (talk) 21:44, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Original pronunciation and foundation estimate

Hi @user:Zero0000],

May I please know why my edit was reverted? Since in this Wikipedia the articles of Bethany and al-Eizariya were merged for some reason (although they are completely two different settlements), I think it's important to put the name of the first village as it is appears in the Bible in Imperial Aramaic without translation. Also, I think it's also important to state the approximate founding period, as I did. I think both these edits are necessary and I wrote them as natural and objectively as I could. I can't think of a reason to revert these additions, especially not the original phonetic name. עידו כ.ש. (talk) 17:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See the entry for Jewish Virtual Library at WP:RSP. It is not a reliable source. CodeTalker (talk) 17:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@עידו כ.ש.: Besides that, neither JVL nor JVL's source Encyclopaedia Judaica contain this information. They do not make this claim about "original name". Actually they say that the name comes from the New Testament character Lazarus. Zero^talk 01:58, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@User:Zero0000 And where did Lazarus lived?

At first there was Bethany, which is a wrong Greek pronunciation for Beit Aniya (בית עניה). This is the city where Lazarus lived, died and was buried in. That city was destroyed and abandoned, but hundreds of years after that a city called al-Eizariya was founded, and was called in his honor.

I get your mistake, tho. This is what happens when people combine two articles of two different cities from two different periods in time, as if Wikipedia is short of space. Bethany was the biblical city, which was called בית עניה as I added (it was never really called Bethany by the city's residents of course), and on its ruins lays the modern day al-Eizariya. I think the original name in the language in which the Bible was written is an important piece of information, especially if most people visit this article for the biblical city, which I imagine is the case, but even if it's not.

As for the founding period reference, I did not know the website is not qualified. In any case, there are graves from the Second Temple period in the city, I saw them myself. They indicated when Israelis started to live there as late as 600s BC as I wrote. I might be able to find an English source next week, however in the meantime all I have is sources in Hebrew about it. If the source language isn't a problem, I'd like for my changes to be added again once the sources will get approved. If not, I'll try to search for English sources next week, but I'd still like the Hebrew original name to be re-added. I don't see any issue with it being added, and I am very surprised that an article of a city in the Kingdom of Israel have its names in four different languages but not in its original language.

Thanks עידו כ.ש. (talk) 03:42, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have not provided any source for the name בית עניה , nor have you provided a source for the original name being Hebrew. There are some who identity the site with עֲנָֽנְיָֽה of Nehemiah 11:32, but others think that is Beit Hanina. Other than that disputed possibility, there is no mention in a Jewish source earlier than the New Testament. Zero^talk 04:37, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See this book, from 1874, which discusses the etymology of the name בית עניה. I don’t know how reliable the translation is, but in summary the city name appears to be בית עניה in the period in which the New Testament was written (Hieronymus explained it as House of mercy and sorrow, which as a Hebrew and Aramaic speaker it checks out for me), yet it might originally was בית עיני, House of dates, probably way before Jesus’s and Lazarus, and was changed around the time when Aramaic replaced Hebrew. You’re right that the name was written nowhere before the New Testament, and בית ענניה was probably a different place all together. Yet בית עניה was according the book the name of the place, and I know many more physical books who says the same, from that period or after. It is also the Hebrew name of the biblical city today, and this was its name in the Hebrew versions of the New Testament for thousands of years. I think that given all that the city should have its name in Hebrew. עידו כ.ש. (talk) 19:10, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]