Talk:Berit Lindholm/GA1

GA Review

Passed. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:42, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: MyCatIsAChonk (talk · contribs) 18:57, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

People checking the recently promoted GA feed must be wondering where all these sopranos are coming from! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:57, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda Arendt, I see you're making some changes to the prose as of me typing this- let me know when you're finished so I can do a prose review! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 19:08, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The sopranos I brought up came from that they died. - No more major changes are planned. - TSventon should be a co-nom, having added everything from Swedish sources. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt and @TSventon: all done with the review, see comments below. Pinging TSventon as some might require looking at Swedish sources. Lovely work! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	~~...as one of the great Wagner singers of her generation. - "greatest" Wagner singers?~~ ~~She studied in Stockholm to become a primary school teacher... - right before this, her mother is mentioned, so using "she" is a bit confusing- using her name would work fine~~ ~~She made her debut at the Royal Swedish Opera... - since it's a new section, start with her name~~ ~~Lindholm was invited by conductor Leopold Stokowski in 1967 to sing... - move "In 1967," to the start of the sentence~~ ~~Stokowski invited her to perform it also in Carnegie Hall in New York City two years later. - replace "also" with "again", and (in my opinion) performances happen at a venue, not in a venue~~ ...including in the title role of Salome by Richard Strauss in 1982 in a production directed by Göran Järvefelt [sv]. - "in 1982 in a production" is a bit if a mouthful- "in a 1982 production" would work better She appeared as Klytemnestra in Elektra in 1990,[9] and the world premiere of Backanterna by Daniel Börtz on 2 November 1991. - did she play the same character in Backanterna? If so, I suggest changing it to, "She appeared as Klytemnestra in Elektra in 1990, and as the same character in the world premiere of Backanterna by Daniel Börtz on 2 November 1991." with singers such as mezzo-soprano Gwendolyn Killebrew, tenor Manfred Jung, and baritones Simon Estes and Norman Bailey. - these people need articles before their titles; "the mezzo-soprano Gwendolyn..." etc ~~Critics predicted a great future: - future for what? Her career? The production?~~ ~~In 1971, she rescued a Ring cycle at Opera Scotland... - what does it mean to "rescue" a performance? Perhaps a wikitionary link could be helpful~~ ...and returned the following year to perform as Brünnhilde in the Ring production directed by Wolfgang Wagner, initially in Die Walküre and Siegfried, with the Third Norne in Götterdämmerung. - not sure if it's just me, but I'm confused by the last two clauses; rephrase, or better yet, split up ~~Jeff Thomas is a disambig link~~ ~~She was proud to have been... - "Lindholm was proud..."~~ ~~...she published a memoir Hovsångerska... - "a memoir titled..."~~ ~~The translated title after the memoir title should be preceded by something like "English:"~~ ~~She recorded in 1967... - again, put "In 1967," at the start~~ ~~She also recorded Swedish songs, among others. - this is rather vague, what songs in particular?~~ Prose is clear and free of typos.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	No fiction, words to watch, or lists; lead is well-written
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Citations are placed in a proper "References" section
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Sources include mostly websites for various ensembles, like the Vienna Opera's website- all good. Her Großes Sängerlexikon is the most cited, also reliable. ~~But, I question classicalsource.com and musicweb-international.com- how are these reliable?~~
	2c. it contains no original research.	I don't see a need for a spotcheck; I would have a hard time doing one, anyway, as many sources are in Swedish. Article is well-cited throughout; no OR visible
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Earwig shows no violations
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	I'm having similar issues with the coverage as with Schnaut; almost all of the prose is about her career and various engagements, with little to nothing about her personal life except a couple sentences under "Personal life" and the first paragraph after the lead; got anything to add? Article addresses the necessary aspects
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Stays focused throughout
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	No bias visible
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	No edit warring
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Image is properly CC tagged
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	~~Image needs caption, and alt text would be nice~~ Image is relevant and properly captioned
	7. Overall assessment.

Replies

2b: Musicweb-international.com has been accepted in many classical music articles. The other site has an interview that offers her perspective and more human touch than the GSL.
6b: I would not know what to put in a caption besides her name, and that we don't know when taken. It seems to be a crop from this, which is sadly also not dated. Storye book, any help? I might guess 1970s. Alt provided, but please check and improve. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:09, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that Lindholm was in her very early 30s in the picture, and she has that 1960s hairstyle which was influenced by Jackie Kennedy, who was one of the world's famous beauties and fashion icons of the time. But look at her very youthful neck - she could even be in her twenties, if it were not for the very slightly more grown-up face. After Jackie Kennedy began to fade from the limelight after Dallas, hairstyles became more influenced by hippy styles, and by the seventies the hairstyle in the photo was out of date. Yup, I was there. (And I remember it - we weren't all at Woodstock, sadly ...) As for the source, I see no reason to believe that the uploader was not the author and copyright holder. Storye book (talk) 09:17, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have just noticed your link to a possible source, in which a possible date of 1973 is given. However I strongly suspect that Lindholm was giving out copies of an old 1960s photo of herself (don't we all?) and that it is the inscription which dates to 1973. Just my opinion. Storye book (talk) 09:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have updated the image filepage to include all the above information. If new information turns up, that will have to be changed.Storye book (talk) 09:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Many thanks on the thorough background research! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:41, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2a The only Swedish songs in the discography at Operalogg are "Pergament, Moses, Fyra dikter för sopran och orkester. HMV CSDS 1089", see Stanford Libraries and also Youtube. It is only twelve minutes on the reverse side of an LP. TSventon (talk) 13:16, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IMO, this is still notable; naming it wouldn't hurt, or just expanding the sentence "She also recorded Swedish songs, among others." MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:20, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
1
- name: which name to use? - her last name is still the same as her mother's (at that time), and full name clumsy. Same for the debut. The header came after the "She", and the "She" was getting around that she was not yet married then.
  - Hmm, true... maybe "the young singer" or other short titles? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:50, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - Did you see what I tried in the sentence before her studies? For the debut, we could do two things, leave She (IAR) or use her maiden name. --
      - @Gerda Arendt: I suggest using her maiden name at the start of the section "Royal Swedish Opera". MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:39, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        done --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:24, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Swedish world premiere: I clarified by a different verb that it's not the same character. Sadly, I know nothing about that Swedish opera, not even the composer has an article. TSventon, could you find more?
  - Gerda Arendt, the composer has a stub article, Daniel Börtz. According to sv:Backanterna (film) and Tidskriften Opera, Lindholm was Alfa (Choir leader/ Körledarinnan) in Backanterna in 1991. TSventon (talk) 21:56, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you, - can you please add that?
    Done. TSventon (talk) 22:58, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks to the both of you for fixing that! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:50, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Great future: the paper clipping is not specific for what, - I'd guess in general, but to specify that might be OR, no?
  - If the paper wrote "great future", I suggest including that in the quote; perhaps, "Critics wrote that she had a "great future" and that she was "tall, and remarkably slim..." or the sort. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:50, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - modified to just one critic's quote (although it would be nice to say that many reported --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:24, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- "rescue": it mean that when some key player is sick, you are available to step in. Perhaps it's so common a word that no quotation marks are needed? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Ah, that makes sense- nevermind, disregard that comment. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:46, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Other items under 1 should be fixed, please check again.
Excellent work- I've struck through the ones that have been addressed. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:54, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that for foreign titles, what follows in brackets is by default the translation into English, without saying that. Compare all FAs for Bach cantatas with their German names. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:24, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
3 coverage: I'll look tomorrow if perhaps the interview has more bits to add. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
3a personal life: the names of her parents and husband come from a Who's Who, so no detail there. I found in a newspaper that her husband's dates were 1932 to 2011 (Dagens Nyheter 2011-04-30 p 53). From the interview, we could add that Lindholm retired in 1995. TSventon (talk) 01:38, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Go ahead, add that, after "last role". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:58, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Both added. TSventon (talk) 09:37, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I'll now check for more bio. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:49, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I added some, more to come (Salome, directors, arias recording) but taking a break for food. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:33, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent work on the additions thus far! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:34, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Will look for refs for the directors and then give it a rest. Salome, Klytemnestra and arias added. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:24, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, found this for Gielen, and there will be something for Gentele, but perhaps can we leave them out for her bio? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:37, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're right, details for other directors can be left out- I think 3 has been sufficiently addressed, thanks for diving deeper into her life to expand "Personal life"! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:40, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.