Talk:Belenggu

Belenggu has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 13, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed
April 14, 2012	Peer review	Reviewed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on February 7, 2012.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Shackles was the first Indonesian novel to portray a prostitute sympathetically?

Current status: Good article

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Modernism

Might "modernity" be a better word in the lede? I tend to think of modernism as the 1920s-40s art movement, but I don't think that's what's meant in this context. Khazar (talk) 12:08, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed and changed. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:03, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Belenggu/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mark Arsten (talk · contribs) 15:03, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, looks interesting, I'll do the review within the next few days. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:03, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, as I go through I'm going to make some of the changes that come to mind, feel free to push back.
The lead looks ok, there's nothing wrong with a spoiler in the second sentence, though some people do find that vexing. You might want to mention if this was written early/late in Pane's career.

Roughly midway, as he focused on non-fiction after 1950

How it relates to his development as an author might be good to add, if there are sources for it. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:PLUSING is more of a FAC thing than a GA thing, but try to keep it to a minimum anyway.

I'll take a look.

Advisor.js is giving me a "Bad ISBN checksum" notice.

Don't know why, that's copied straight from my edition. Worldcat doesn't have it either (Worldcat also doesn't have some of the early printings)

I could take a picture of the registration page (is that what it's called?) which has all the bibliographic data, then send it to you. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:31, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll ask a source genius and see if they know. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Belay that last remark, no need to trouble the geniuses. The error comes up because you used a 10 digit ISBN in the infobox and 13 digit ISBNs in the references. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:03, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Makes sense (at the school now, on my break). The book only gives me the 10 digit number.

Ok, I don't think it's much of an issue. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:56, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dabs and links are fine.
Might want to briefly explain what Lekra is.

Done.

Wow, that really is a depressing plot, I'm half-surprised no one committed suicide.

If this were old school, like Sitti Nurbaya or Salah Asuhan, all the protagonists would be dead.

Under Influences it might be good to note a little more about how psychoanalysis influenced the book.

I'll see if any of the sources I have ready access go into more detail. Don't think I saw anything, and Pane died in 1970, so any of his writings may be hard to come by. (Even the biggest hits take a while to be reissued here) Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:34, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, as above, if it's not in the sources, it's not in the sources. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My hunch would be that the bit about "humans are inherently held back by their reminiscences of the past" might relate to psychoanalysis. (Though that's OR on my part) Mark Arsten (talk) 00:34, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think (if I remember correctly, Google books doesn't open well here) that Christie discusses how the past holds the characters back, but he doesn't tie it explicitly with Freud.

Yeah, I guess that would be OR. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:56, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note [A] looks messed up for some reason.

I'll try and use that eref template.

Changed to {{efn}}

Are there any minor characters in the book that should be mentioned?

There are a couple, but they won't be sourced anywhere but the book. Is that alright?

I think so, based on my reading of WP:PASI. I wouldn't fail the review if you leave that out though. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You could probably get a couple of details about Hartono off the Christie source. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:34, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I'll put Hartono, the driver (Ahmad, I think), and Tini's social group in later when I have my copy in front of me.

Might the sentence "It was the first Indonesian psychological novel." Be better in "Style" or "Influences" than "Release"? Mark Arsten (talk) 22:06, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see it as being related to the release date, but Style would be okay too.

Actually, I see what you mean now--hard to tell which one to put it in. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind it in style.

Alright, I have to go teach soon so I can't do the big changes just yet. Some replies above. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:30, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Meanwhile, opponents of the novel dismissed it as "pornographic", putting emphasis on traditionally taboo acts like prostitution and adultery." I think "putting" is dangling here.

Perhaps "... emphasising traditionally taboo acts like prostitution and adultery."?

~~Is Balfas' quote in Reception a translation, or did he write in English?~~
- That was easy enough to find out, actually. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:45, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Try to be consistent if you note the reviewers' nationalities.

From my look, only Christie and Taum aren't explicitly stated. However, both are noted as being related to a particular institution, with a location given. (As a side note, Taum was on the panel which went over my undergraduate thesis).

Ok, that works. Pretty cool about Taum. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:50, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is Christie the only Westerner that you can find who wrote about the book?

Only freely accessible one I could find. I think I saw a couple on Jstor, but 1) my satellite modem blocks jstor for some reason and 2) I don't have a subscription.

If you know the names of the articles we can get them off WP:RX--but that's more of an issue for FAC, you don't have to have every source for a GA. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:56, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I spotchecked reference #10 off google books, no close paraphrasing or failed verification.
Spotchecked reference #9 on google books, no close paraphrasing or failed verification but in the copy I looked at the information is on page 71, not 70.

To be double checked.

You're right, changed.

Spotchecked #23 on google books, no close paraphrasing or failed verification. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:45, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So by my count right now I only have to cut back on the noun + ings and add more about the characters. I should also take a look to see if the sources explicitly state a connection with Freud more than just it reflects his theory. Right? Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:06, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

K, I cut back on some of the ings. Back to work. Thanks for the review! Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:15, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, basically just those two things. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:49, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alrighty. I'll get on it around 1 pm my time (not enough of a nerd to bring the book to school). Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Characters added. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:18, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think I got everything. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:37, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, looks fine to me, good job with this. Passing as GA. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:42, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, thanks (you're up late). Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This gives me several further translations available. Do you think it qualifies as an RS? Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:45, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, I think WorldCat is pretty reliable. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:49, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]