Talk:Bear Witness

Bear Witness has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 11, 2022. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Bear Witness appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 29 October 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Bear Witness reviewers said, "The songs were richer than the first wave of Madonna's hits"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Bear Witness.

Wikipedia

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Albums

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GA Review

Passed. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:09, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bear Witness/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 05:50, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

A lot of comma and copy changes; one source I spotted that needs replacement. 7-day hold to the nominators, Shaidar cuebiyar and Dan arndt. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:36, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Copy changes

Lead

It was released in August 1986 on Regular Records, which reached No. 14 on the Kent Music Report albums chart. I don't like the "which", because it makes it sound like Regular Records reached #14, not the album. Maybe just "...on Regular Records and reached..." Y
I'm Talking received international interest and as a result they To avoid awkward commas, change the end to "interest; as a result, they" Y
In October 2010, Bear Witness was listed in the book, 100 Best Australian Albums. Remove the second comma. The book title is not an appositive. An appositive should be removable without losing information. But to say simply "Bear Witness was listed in the book." would make me ask "what book?". Y
It included three non-album, singles, "Trust Me" (November 1984), "Lead the Way" (June 1985) and "Love Don't Live Here Anymore" (August), as well as B-sides and mix tracks. Remove the first comma and set off everything from "Trust" to "August" in —dashes—. So, It included three non-album singles—"Trust Me" (November 1984), "Lead the Way" (June 1985) and "Love Don't Live Here Anymore" (August)—as well as B-sides and mix tracks. Y

Background

I wonder if splitting into two subheadings might be useful here.

Bear Witness was the debut studio album issued by Australian pop rock band, I'm Talking on 4 August 1986. Remove the comma; not an appositive.Y
You're quoting a sentence fragment, so "no specific meaning". with period outside of quote (MOS:INOROUT). This happens a few other places as well.
Their first release was a six-track extended play, Someday (May 1984), on independent label, Randelli. Remove the last comma; Randelli is not an appositive because I'm left asking "what independent label?"Y
The EP was recorded before Abeyratne joined, according to Newman, "[Abeyratne] was a friend of [Ceberano]'s. She joined after about three gigs. [Ceberano] suggested that she come along and do some backing vocals, because none of us could sing." Change the comma before the quotes to a colon. The period inside quotes here IS correct, because you are quoting a full sentence.Y
The band were managed by Ken West and Vivian Lees and, following the release of Someday, they were signed to Regular Records Add a comma after Lees: User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences (C in S)Y
Their first three non-album, singles remove this comma. The same advice from the lead applies here.Y
, in which "everything was shared – the philosophy, the credits, the money" however in reality add a semicolon after the quote and set off "in reality" in commas.Y
teen pop music TV programme, Countdown another one of those nasty not-appositive commas that must go.Y
Goodge explained that they would not use Cockle, "[he] Change this comma to a colon.Y
Maher of British group, Scritti Politti Again, this comma has to go.Y
regular drummer, Newman Same. Y
Ceberano in her autobiography, I'm Talking: My Life, My Words, My Music (2014), recalls For contrast — this is right! I can remove everything between the commas without issue.
But not here: Abeyratne also sang lead vocals for the track, "It's Over".. If I say, "Abeyratne also sang lead vocals for the track", I'm left wondering which one. Ditch that comma.Y
The band received considerable international interest and as a result Add commas after "interest" and "and" and "result".Y
In March Abeyratne, Charlesworth and McLean left I'm Talking and the remaining four-piece disbanded in July. This sentence really could use commas after March (for clarity) and Talking (C in S) Y

Reissues

two dance mixes of the album's first two singles "Do You Wanna Be?" and "Holy Word", three A-sides of earlier singles, "Trust Me", "Lead the Way" and "Love Don't Live Here Anymore" I've changed this for commas: two dance mixes of the album's first two singles, "Do You Wanna Be?" and "Holy Word", as well as three A-sides of earlier singles: "Trust Me", "Lead the Way" and "Love Don't Live Here Anymore" Y
Regular Records' former owner, Martin Fabinyi provided Two things: "Records's" per MOS:'S and complete the appositive by adding a comma after Fabinyi. Y
Goodge worked on analogue tapes, some had to be baked to avoid their disintegration during remixing and he was able to source a machine to play the tapes. Change the existing comma to a colon and add a comma after "remixing". Y
all of Someday EP, and "rarities inspired by their New York experiences with hip hop culture and 12" mixes." Remove this comma here. (Also another INOROUT change needed) Y

Critical reception

In October 2010 the CD reissue version of 1996 was listed at number 93 in the book, 100 Best Australian Albums. Remove the comma. Y
Its legacy, "inspired Ditch this comma. Y
They observe, "the necessity of playing live grounded the compositions I think capitalizing the ("The necessity...") looks better here and in other sentences in this paragraph. Y
as, "flawless vocal on [a] sax-tastic" song Another comma to go. Y

I'm a bit confused. Why is the "channelled" quote citing the Rolling Stone source, which contains it, but also mentioning the Herald Sun one? Y

You're right. We've muddled the quotes by Adams for the two different sources. I hope I've straightened this out now.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:29, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Commercial reception

Kent Music Report Albums Chart, Change this comma to a colon. Y

Charts

The tables should have captions (MOS:DTAB), even if they are hidden by using {{sronly}}. This is an accessibility requirement (not strictly GA but I do check for this). Y

Sourcing

Earwig shows no real issues—mostly quoted reviews and interview elements.

Spot checks

2 (Kent Music Report): This checks out, but I'm not quite sure about it being hosted on an imgur mirror. This seems to be an accepted RS that isn't officially available.
4 (2SER interview): Checks out for all uses.
11 (Goodge's track-by-track analysis): Used amply and checks out.
15: Must AGF the citations to Ceberano 2014 (book).
17: Archives of Countdown list Lead the Way as having been played on 4 August 1985.
19: The Victor Harbour Times article checks out, BUT "some of songs" should be "some of the songs". Y
34: The linked website DOES NOT contain any information on 1986. It looks to be missing some years in the 80s. Another source must be found.

Good spotting. This ref has been deleted. Some content is verified at the remaining source.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:33, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

37: 1987 ARIA Awards video. Not sure where to look. It is the official upload, though. Y
40: APRA AMCOS catalogue checks out.

Other items

References are archived.
Images are appropriately licensed (in one case) or have appropriate NFUR (the other). The alt text is great.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Page numbers

Shouldn't there be page numbers for the books. 100 Best Australian Albums is over 200 pages and should be separated into page numbers like most articles. Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:49, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by RoySmith (talk) 19:07, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that reviewers of Bear Witness's songs said that "The songs were richer than the first wave of Madonna's hits"? Source: O'Donnell, John; Creswell, Toby; Mathieson, Craig (October 2010). 100 Best Australian Albums. Prahran, Vic: Hardie Grant Books. pp. 238–239. ISBN 978-1-74066-955-9.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Delaware Straight-Out Truth Teller
- Comment: Finding hooks for this was really hard so if you have any hooks for this please share.

Improved to Good Article status by Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) and Dan arndt (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 21:29, 17 October 2022 (UTC).[reply]

- ALT1: ... that Bear Witness's second single "Holy Word" (July 1986) has lead vocals by Zan Abeyratne instead of regular lead vocalist Kate Ceberano, who was unavailable when its demo sessions were recorded? Source: Adams, Cameron (13 April 2018). "The History of I'm Talking". The Herald Sun.
Is MusicBrainz a reliable source? Seems like it is user-edited. Some of the "Track listing" (should it be "Track listings"?) subsections have no sources at all. The headings should also be normalized to not start with a capital letter after the year. Other than that, the article looks good. Noting here that I recommend using ALT0 over ALT1 as ALT1 is more about a song than the album. Regards, IceWelder [✉] 18:59, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Shaidar cuebiyar: Please respond to IceWelder's review. Onegreatjoke (talk) 23:58, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

IceWelder. Thanks for your comments. I can accept your preference for ALT0. Go for it.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:01, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Shaidar cuebiyar: You still haven't confirmed whether or not MusicBrainz is a reliable source. Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:56, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I was under the impression that it was a database, but I see there is a case for it being user-generated source, too. Sorry, about that. I'll see if I can find an alternative source.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:29, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Concerns have been addressed. Hook is good to go. IceWelder [✉] 14:47, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]