Talk:Aydin Aghdashloo

Azeri Latin Script???

Why is his name also translated into the Latin azeri script? He is not from the republic of Azerbaijan and as such the translation is irrelevant. I will thus be removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.154.118 (talk) 15:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Speedy delete contested

Aydin Aghdashloo is a very important Iranian artist and cultural figure and this page is in no way promotional. I'm not sure how this bot works and what parts of the article should be re-written but I have tried to follow Wikipedia rules in creating this page. I will however try to re-write the page very soon to follow the guidelines.

Aydin Aghdashloo has been involved in Iranian culture - before and after the revolution - for 40 years. He's been building and managing museums, running art biennials, publishing extensive researches on Iranian art history and cinema and teaching in universities. He belongs to a generation of Iranian intellectuals which although effected by the Iranian revolution, stayed in Iran and worked to keep Iranian culture from deminishing.

Because this discussion is very subjective and I am describing to a bot why Aydin Aghdashloo should remain on Wikipedia, I request some more specific feedback to what should be changed in this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Takinson (talk • contribs) 13:59, April 27, 2010

I've tagged the article as requiring more references from reliable third-party sources. Most of the sources in the article appear to be self-published (blogs, personal websites, etc.), but the article should be built on reliable sources such as newspapers, books and magazines. Once you've added some more sources the tag can be removed (or you can comment here for review).

Also, please remember to sign your posts by placing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your comment. Thanks. Brad 14:09, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Brad. I will continue to replace all the personal sources with well established news sources. However, most of the material is in Iranian media which is in Persian but I will be able to find enough sources to remove all unreliable ones. Also, I'm going to add a quote here from Edward Lucie-Smith about Aghdashloo, I'm not sure how to actually put the quote there as this is in a book and I couldn't find this part online in a reliable source to link to, I'll research this more in Wikipedia guidelines to see how it's done. Lucie-Smith writes in his book "Art Today" about Aghdashloo. I also added the book in the page references:

"... post-modern use of pre-existing forms can also be found in the work of Iranian male artists, notably in that of Aydin Aghdashloo (b.1940), who is also a distinguished commentator on art .

Aghdasloo's ironic subversion of a revered western original finds parallels in contemporary Chinese art, for example in work by the sculptor Sui Jianguo (b. 1956), who teaches at the Central Academy in Beijing. Sui’s series “Creases in Clothes” features iconic Greek and Renaissance classical statues, such as the “Discobolus of Myron”, clad in flapping Mao suits . In both cases the artists concerned adopt a critical, distancing, deliberately ironic attitude when confronted with revered western traditions. Or, at least, when confronted with the idea that non-western cultures must inevitably follow in the footsteps of the West."

-Edward Lucie-Smith, Author of "Art Today" (1995) (Takinson (talk) 14:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC))

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090414054439/http://www.aghdashloo.com:80/orientals9.htm to http://www.aghdashloo.com/orientals9.htm

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External links modified

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Use of Hirji and Persian Jalali era dates in article instead of gregorian

A lot of the article uses gregorian dating, but then out of nowhere there are a few places where it uses the Persian Jalali dating system, or the Hirji islamic calendar-- which is unclear and confusing to most readers of the article, and probably against wikipedia policy for consistent dating systems. Let's not make readers figure out 3 dating systems just to understand the chronology of this guy's life.

Examples:

"In the first years of 1360s Jalali, he researched and wrote teleplays of the two films "History of Writing" and "Traditional Workshops" for Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting"

"His book Evident and Hidden is describing a long interview with him in which Aghdashloo inspects and criticizes the cultural and artistic events of the 1340s Jalali in Iran."

"His writings have also had an important role in publicizing old artists like Mirza Reza Kalhor, Lotf-Ali Shirazi, and calligraphers and painters of the 12th and 13th Hijri centuries."

" Later, he exhibited a series of his books and handwriting, which included 140 books and pieces from fourth to fourteenth Hijri centuries, at Negarestan Museum and sold all of his series to the museum."

"In 1983, he helped the production of the series "Towards Simurgh" about the history of Iranian painting since the beginning until the fourteenth Hijri century by IRIB"

If someone already familiar with the Jalali and Hirji calendars can convert these dates to gregorian for the article that would be great-- there is really no good reason for suddenly switching to another calendar in the wikipedia. 68.175.141.8 (talk) 15:14, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Flagged this with cleanup tag. If someone more familiar with these dating systems can consult https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS:ERA to make things more consistent, that would be great. Thanks 69.201.47.185 (talk) 15:24, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

"RfC on self promotion"

The consensus is to remove unsourced and promotional information.

Cunard (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The article includes far too many PoV and unsubstantiated claims for an artist that according to article has held only "two individual exhibitions in Iran". Some Examples: ·His two series Termination Memories and Years of Fire and Snow are considered part of ** the most important series ** of modern Iranian art ·His art works are known for showing the thought of gradual death and doom and also recreating** remarkable classic works in a modern and surreal form **. ·Aghdashloo is considered one of ** the most famous painting masters** for the third generation modern Iranian painters. · he has *hundreds of writings* The other sections need serious revisions.01:58, 21 November 2017 (UTC)~

nb RfC opened by IP:2001:569:73a1:9c00:e58d:e7de:aa58:8049

• Comment - I don't think a RfC is the correct venue. There has been no previous discussion on the TP or even edit warring (recently) on this topic). I suggest you simply remove all such un-sourced assertion. In general praise should be attributed to someone who is doing the praising (or if it is a wide consensus - then to a very reliable source stating this).Icewhiz (talk) 08:48, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
• Response I did. I Kept the section on praise by others, but I think it's rather bizarre.03:34, 22 November 2017 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:73A1:9C00:E58D:E7DE:AA58:8049 (talk)

Response II Unfortunately and editor restored the article to its previous version. That's sad! 04:56, 22 November 2017 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:73A1:9C00:E58D:E7DE:AA58:8049 (talk)

Note Two versions under discussion HERE. Pincrete (talk) 10:53, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

• Remove (Summoned by bot) RFC is valid. Previous discussion not required, and is often futile. above listed claims are not necessary. L3X1 (distænt write) 16:46, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
• Remove - Summoned by bot. Content should be removed to avoid page from reading like a puff piece. Meatsgains (talk) 17:25, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
• Remove. Stick to the facts. Bradv 04:30, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
• Remove and consider further issues. As to the tangential issue that's been raised, regarding whether an RfC is appropriate: I also tend to agree that some TP discussion should generally precede and RfC. That said, there's no real harm done in this instance, and one might reasonably expect that trying to scale back hagiographic content in a BLP is likely to be met with resistance from the inexperienced and/or COI parties who put it there in the first place, so I wouldn't say our OP acted improperly. That side issue addressed, I think the OP certainly has the right end of the stick with regard to substantive policy issues: that content is clearly non-neutral (and completely unverified) puffery, and well outside the bounds of appropriate tone for encyclopedic content.

But the issues actually go deeper, when you look at the sourcing: which is to say, there is virtually none, at present, which passes muster (or the smell test, for that matter) with regard to reliable referencing. Of the 13 citations in the article at present, ten look something like this: Ahmadi. Our Painter Aydin Aghdashloo. Which our more astute editors will recognize as not remotely a valid reference. Additionally, the titles of these references suggest that the sources being alluded to are probably WP:PRIMARY and maybe not reliable for our verification purposes, meaning that sourcing sufficient to pass WP:GNG or WP:NARTIST may be lacking here. The three references that do contain enough content to track down the source being referred to may or may not consist of the requisite amount of coverage to pass minimal notability standards, but I'd suggest that the two BBC persian articles (the only two we have immediate access to or even ability to find) probably do not suffice in themselves. Now, from what is here, I strongly suspect this man probably could pass GNG, had we access to additional proper references, so I'm not trying to suggest AfD as the next stop, but clearly a lot of work needs to be done here if this article is going to be preserved, and the removal of the glorifying language is just the first change that needs to take place. Snow ^{let's rap} 04:19, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Remove the fluff - an RfC was not needed for this bio - the article just needs some tweaking and good copyediting. I agree with Snow Rise in that a lot of work needs to be done, remove the puffery, write a bio not a promo. The artist is clearly notable as he was awarded the French government's Chavalier (Knight) award which is the French government's highest honor, but the sources aren't corroborating on which award was actually given - one calls it the National Order of Merit (France) which is the 2nd highest honor given by the French government. One of the sources I cited in the lede provides a photo of the award pinned to his chest, but I can't tell which award it is. I'm leaning toward Ntl Order of Merit if our WP article is correct about that award. Need someone with expertise in that subject area to sort it out. Hope it's ok, but I removed the two outdated sentences regarding his art exhibits. Updated sources are out there - books have been written about the man and his art - he's an interesting character indeed. As an art scholar, he has lectured at various venues, including universities, but he is also a very humble and private man. His works are in national museums, listed at Bonham's, and on exhibit. The Guardian mentions in the 3rd paragraph about the "large sums" brought by sales of his art and a few others (the photo at the top of the article is Aghdashloo's art). It's late - tomorrow's another day. ^{Atsme📞📧} 06:46, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sexual misconduct allegations

Some allegations are being added to the page that are based on a couple of tweets. These allegations aren't verifiable. Also, the sexual misconduct allegation isn't proved and is only an allegation at this point. It should stay away from the opening paragraph. CameliaMTF (talk) 15:31, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Just one user (Shiraz Sangak) who keeps adding it back. I'm sure the article will get protected soon. I've fixed it for now. 217.132.165.144 (talk) 17:46, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

There are legitimate allegations by women who have remained unnamed covered by a NYT journalist and the allegations have been mentioned in other publications. They are worth mentioning. It does appear users such as CameliaMTF (from the edit history) are deeply invested in watering down these very serious allegations against Aydin Aghdashloo has been central to Iran’s #MeToo movement. TruthTalk2020 (talk) 13:20, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Not sure about Camelia but recent edits seem invested in the subject. For example, claiming that a person connected to the subject has "brought ridicule upon himself" is not objective. I think this article needs the attention of an admin. 217.132.165.144 (talk) 20:14, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

The "brought ridicule upon himself" line was pasted straight from a Iranwire news article and was cited as such. We can remove or edit that line, but your removal of the entire new additions which came with citations is suspect in itself.

The Farnaz Fassihi tweets link to a controversial blogger named Afshin Parvaresh who is infamous for publishing yellow-journalism posts without any evidence or references and shouldn't be used as source. Also Aghdashloo's children references seems irrelevant to the topic. These allegations shouldn't be in the opening paragraph of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CameliaMTF (talk • contribs) 09:02, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Hasty edits and editing battles have made this article a mess. There are many issue but just one example: there is an accusation mentioning a tweet but citing an article. I followed the article and found the tweet that's referenced. Turns our that tweet is actually in turn citing an Instagram account of a totally different person and that account has been banned for online bullying. Not a great source. Also why are the allegations under the "Works" section and have a subsection of "Bibliography"? There are loads of other issues... 2A00:A040:186:CD70:491E:547C:8623:FABC (talk) 18:25, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

The recent edits on this page seem biased in a developing story. I agree about the tweet in question (Farnaz Fassihi) which I checked and links to nowhere [1]. Since there is nothing other than this tweet regarding other victims it should be removed. Also there is a statement from Mr. Aghdashloo's students in his defence here [2] which is missing from this article. This section is now bigger than all the other sections with irrelevant quotes that seems to be a self-promotion from Ms. Omatali and Khezrheidari. Can admins look into this? 185.70.60.4 (talk) 15:20, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

I have been following the development of this news story and the current state of Aydin Aghadshloo's page looks very suspicious in trying to inflate the story in a subjective light. I have checked Farnaz Fassihi's tweet which quotes an online personality known for his conspiratorial theories about a variety of artists in Persian, which has been taken down. I have not come across any of this online personality's allegations about other public figures appearing on their Wikipedia pages, so why is it here? It is being used to state more than one woman (Sara Omatali has a claim about sexual misconduct 14 years ago, denied by Aydin Aghdashloo) have come forward with claims. I have been unable to find any other sources with this claim, including BBC Persian. I am wondering why there is such an effort to inflate an already significant issue. Admin's attention would be beneficial in resolving the activities on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Veritas-Beyond (talk • contribs) 16:33, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

It seems like this article is being vandalized by one or two editors. Admins please check into this as there are no reliable sources and somebody has locked the article. 1- why is there a reference to this developing story in the opening line? 2- the tweet used as source by Farnaz Fassihi is not a reliable source as it links to an Instagram page that was taken down for bullying and harassment. 3- None of the material in support of Mr. Aghdashloo are included here. I want to point out the sensitivity of this topic as there are false allegations of rape here without any source. As Mr. Aghdashloo lives in Iran and Iranian law has capital punishment for rape this is a very dangerous vandalism. CameliaMTF (talk) 10:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I have noticed that the direct translation for Sara Omatali's tweets is actually "tried to kiss" and not "forcibly". What I'm seeing in this page is an effort to present as fact what are only allegations. There is one account of sexual misconduct against Aydin Aghdashloo which is worth mentioning in this page, although I am not sure why on the opening paragraph? That seems to be against Wikipedia's common practice. If you look at Woody Allen's page, the very serious case of sexual abuse is only referred to in the relevant section. Same with Joe Biden. The most unusual part of this is the reference to Farnaz Fassihi's tweet as fact. She has clearly referenced a secondary source, who is known among Iranians as Afshin Parvaresh, a man with various claims against famous artists without ever presenting evidence. His last accusation against Aghdashloo was a claim that he has faked the identity of his parents which was quickly disproved by people sharing Aghdashloo's real family photos. This to me looks like in immediate need for escalation in resolving the issues and cleaning up hearsay content in support of verifiable facts. These are serious allegations that should not be misused in a salacious way. Other filmmakers and artists who have been named in this movement have not been subject to such biased scrutiny on their pages. I also couldn't find the statement by Aghdashloo's students so I'm linking it here. [3]

Aydin Aghdashloo's role in 2020 Iran #MeToo movement and subsequent edit wars to downplay his role on this page

From the history of this page its evident Aghdashloo's son Takin (known as Takinson on Wikipedia) is behind the inception of this page, now well known for his defence of his father's accusations of sexual assault by referencing his father's royal lineage (twitter.com/takinson). It appears users such as CameliaMTF have been systematically attempting to edit out the recent accusations against Aghdashloo, who is one of the central figures in the #MeToo movement that reignited itself in Iran during August 2020. This should be a flag to the Wikipedia community to watch this page. Recent updates from IranWire were updated to the story by myself.

Claiming I am Aydin Aghdashloo's son for editing this articles is ridiculous. Looking at your contributions it is more than evident that you are particularly invested in this topic and based on your logic you might be Ms. Sara Omatali or one of her family members.CameliaMTF (talk) 17:13, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Can this user explain the reason behind their assertion? It seems that this page is playing out like a court room for proving an online allegation, instead of relaying objective facts. Why is it relevant what his son has said about him? Why isn't it relevant to include the statement of support signed by his students, some famous women on it too. And more importantly, what is the significance of this artist's entire page covered with the details of this developing story? Curious for opinions on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Veritas-Beyond (talk • contribs) 16:44, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Update on Aydin Aghdashloo’ s page

Aydin Aghdashloo’s Sexual misconduct allegations part of his page has a source that has been removed from Instagram( Afshin Parvaresh Instagram page was removed due to publishing these allegation without any reliable sources) Also there are several updates that are missing from his page including his recent works, many letters of support that he has received from his students, and his fellow artists. How can the page be unlocked so can be edited accordingly? A living artist page should not be locked as it has to be updated. No other artist had the controversy mentioned in the first paragraph of his bio specially when there is no proof. I hope page can unlocked so the correction can be done Thank you Mahshidboz (talk) 14:39, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Based on the arguments made above by myself and multiple other users please:

Change:

Aydin Aghdashloo (Persian: آیدین آغداشلو; born 30 October 1940) is an Iranian painter, graphist, writer, film critic. Aghdashloo was decorated with the Chevalier (Knight) award, by the French government for his civil achievements. Agdashloo's name has been amongst those of several famous men to appear in allegations of sexual abuse in Iran during the August 2020 social media wave for the Iranian #MeToo movement.

To:

Aydin Aghdashloo (Persian: آیدین آغداشلو; born 30 October 1940) is an Iranian painter, graphist, writer, film critic. Aghdashloo was decorated with the Chevalier (Knight) award, by the French government for his civil achievements.

Change:

As of August 22, 2020, there are 22 allegations of sexual misconducts against Aghdashloo, as reported by New York Times journalist Farnaz Fassihi on her Twitter account. All accounts except that of Sara Omatali remain anonymous. Fahime Khezr Heidari, a journalist based in Washington DC, said Omatali was “one of the most ethical people” she knew and added that she had heard “dozen” similar cases against Aghdashloo. Laleh Sabouri, a former Iranian film and television actress tweeted that she was a student of Aghdashloo's for two years in the early 90s and though she was never subjected to Aghdashloo's sexual misconducts, yet she could confirm that sexual misconducts appeared to be a natural part of Aghdashloo's life.

To:

The New York Times journalist Farnaz Fassihi has tweeted about other unverified allegations against Aghdashloo with links to a now removed page on Instagram belonging to a controversial Iranian conspiracy theorist. Laleh Sabouri, a former Iranian film and television actress tweeted that she was a student of Aghdashloo's for two years in the early 90s and though she was never subjected to Aghdashloo's sexual misconduct, yet she believes the allegation against Aghdashloo. On September 8, 2020, more than 150 former students of Aghdashloo released a joint statement defending their teacher stating "As those who attended courses offered by Aydin Aghdashloo over many decades in a safe, professional, and constructive environment based on solidarity and growth, we have found him an inspiring artist, a caring teacher, a master, a companion, a confidant, a friend, a meticulous expert, and a critical thinker. More than anything, he has taught us how to live." — Preceding unsigned comment added by CameliaMTF (talk • contribs) 07:37, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

References

 Not done: The truth of the allegations is not at issue but whether the allegations have been made is. The allegations are reliable sourced to IranWire, the Washington Post, and the New York Times, among others. Under the Core Content Policies and the Biographies of Living persons policy we do not attempt to discern "truth" but reliably-reported statements. These are reliably reported. The defense by a group of students is, on the other hand, not. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:10, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

I think Eggishorn have missed the point of the edit request. I am not contesting The Washington Post or IranWire articles. However, none of sources refer to "22 allegations" but one tweet by Farnaz Fassihi which is an unreliable source as it links to nowhere. Also, the reference to this section in the opening paragraph (lead) is against Wikipedia's NPOV rules. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CameliaMTF (talk • contribs) 11:11, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 01:57, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

ah

in piremarde o oskolaaye sepaahish ke jihadian vaase islam messe abtin bagheri o Mona Kakanj chera nemimiran. maarahat shim? Be maache antik o inaa too khoone! Pas in bastanshenasi chie. berid gom shid dige! 93.241.212.100 (talk) 15:00, 26 May 2023 (UTC)