Talk:Avdeyevka, Russia

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On 11 October 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Avdeyevka, Russia to Avdeyevka. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 11 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Авдіївка and Авдеевка two different settlements in different countries. The "objections" didn't make a !vote. We're left the rationale from the supports to move. (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans (talk) 04:23, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Avdeyevka, Russia → Avdeyevka – Unnecessary disambiguator, it's the only article with "Avdeyevka" in the title. HappyWith (talk) 16:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). House Blaster^talk 22:44, 11 October 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. Polyamorph (talk) 06:54, 29 October 2023 (UTC) [reply]

Preliminary discussion at RM/TR

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

What about Avdiivka? Both spelled Авдеевка. 162 etc. (talk) 19:54, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@162 etc.: I didn't refresh my tab (it had been open for a while...) before processing this request. My two cents is that if they are romanized separately, there is no ambiguity WRT the romanized version. In other words, while Авдеевка is ambiguous, Avdeyevka and Avdiivka are not. Given you did not formally contest this move, I have left it at the new title; please feel free to revert. House Blaster^talk 20:50, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't like the move. The Ukrainian one is also transliterated as "Avdeyevka" in certain English-language sources [1] and the Russian one is a village of ~100 inhabitants that shouldn't realistically be the primary topic. Avdeyevka should be either a primary redirect or a dabpage. 162 etc. (talk) 21:52, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support move. The Ukrainian city might be occasionally transliterated as Avdeyevka, but it is overwhelmingly called "Avdiivka", not "Avdeyevka". In fact, on my end, the google search 162 suggested above (courtesy link) gives me the "Showing results for avdiivka ukraine [sic]" banner. When I tell google avdeyevka directly ([2]), I get three results (and they are not exactly top tier sources: [3][4][5]) before I am looking at non-English sources. (Sources using "Avdiivka" for the Ukrainian city include POLITICO, The Washington Post, and The New York Times.) House Blaster^talk 22:44, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We're not arguing the title of the Avdiivka article. We're arguing whether "Avdeyevka" unambiguously refers to the Russian village - and I'm not convinced that it does. 162 etc. (talk) 00:22, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, this is a good point, given how obscure the Russian settlement is. I might not be against your proposal to make Avdeyevka a disambig page, and retarget redirects like Avdeevka there. HappyWith (talk) 00:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Avdeevka, Russia. Per WP:COMMONNAME, this is the most common English romanization of the Russian name for the last century and recently.[6] Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, the bare name should link to the Ukrainian city which historically and recently is a more prominent topic with a more substantial article. Per WP:ONEOTHER, disambiguate with a hatnote only. —Michael Z. 14:44, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The link does not say anything about what the most common name for this settlement is. If anything, it says that there is no common English name for it. There is no good reason moving it to Avdeevka. Ymblanter (talk) 15:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If there is no common name, that supports:

1. that the other subject is the primary topic, and

2. the name should be romanized per WP:USEENGLISH: “must be transliterated into characters generally intelligible to literate speakers of English. Established systematic transliterations (e.g., Hanyu Pinyin and IAST) are preferred.” Avdeevka uses the most common established systematic romanization system for English (ALA-LC), and corresponds to the most-used spelling for the exact name.

The Ngram chart[7] shows the most common spelling used in English for this Russian name; the most common transliteration of Авдеевка. If you have more detailed evidence that contradicts it, please share. —Michael Z. 21:34, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In response to the initial objections by 162: Авдеевка isn't even ambiguous. The Ukrainian city is Авдіївка. This is the English Wikipedia, not the Russian Wikipedia. Avdeyevka is the transliteration of the Russian name for Avdiivka, but it is overwhelmingly called Avdiivka in all English language sources that aren't quoting Russian politicians or something like that. HappyWith (talk) 00:17, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
However, even these instances where they quote Russian politicians are probably more frequent than mentions of the village in English speaking media. Ymblanter (talk) 07:12, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Avdeevka/Avdeyevka has been used by reliable sources to refer to the town in Ukraine’s Donbas (pop. 31,000) significantly more often than to the village (derevnia) in Russia’s Kaluga oblast (pop. 116). —Michael Z. 14:50, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. What a lot of fuss about nothing. The Ukrainian city may be written the same as this one in Russian, but as noted this is not ru-wiki and we transliterate it differently. As such, that's sufficient WP:SMALLDETAILS not to warrant a dab page, and a hatnote is perfectly sufficient. — Amakuru (talk) 21:09, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.