Talk:Ariana Grande

Lead update and more

@Ben0006 I noticed your changes on Grande's lead. I don't think "The Voice" should be added, as her stint on there was very brief and for only for one season. The last paragraph is more reserved for her acting duties, with the Wicked movies coming up.

Also, Grande has sold 90 million records, which is also sourced and listed in here, and she now ties Rihanna for the most songs with one billion streams, and has won 10 MTV Video Music Awards. Months ago, the sentence "all of her studio albums have been certified platinum or multi-platinum by the RIAA" was removed, as her most recent album wasn't platinum. It was certified platinum this month, so it should be re-added too.

The last sentence of the first paragraph ends very abruptly. Maybe add "she is noted for her four-octave vocal range and her signature use of the whistle register, while her personal life has been subject of widespread public interest", as Grande's private has been heavily discussed by the media, since the beginning of her career, especially in recent years with her divorce and relationships. Mirrored7 (talk) 19:58, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

I removed the part about "The Voice". But I came to find out it isn't mentioned anywhere in the prose. Shouldn't it be?

I updated the statistics.

The last sentence of the first paragraph would become: "Regarded as a pop icon and an influential figure in popular music, she is noted for her four-octave vocal range and her signature use of the whistle register, while her personal life has been subject of widespread public interest."

What do you think about the sentence structure-wise? Is it fine or should it be split or redone?

Ben | he/him (talk) 20:37, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I meant. Also, you forgot to include "the" before "RIAA diamond-certified". Mirrored7 (talk) 20:45, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm fine with the most of these edits, but I really don't think interest in Grande's private life is second-sentence-in-lead-worthy. Aoi (青い) (talk) 20:47, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Why? Just last year her divorce was widely discussed in the media. No to forget Manchester in 2017, the overdose of her ex-boyfriend in 2018 and her song "Thank U, Next" making a big impact in media and pop culture. She literally gets extensive media coverage every time she's in a new relationship or breaks up, same as Taylor Swift. She is also one of the most followed artists on social media and her fashion sense and ponytail are widely seen as "iconic". Mirrored7 (talk) 20:59, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying any of this isn't notable (or even that it shouldn't be in the lead at all), but I disagree that it's important enough to merit inclusion in the second sentence of the lead paragraph. Aoi (青い) (talk) 21:08, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, then let at least move "Rolling Stone named her one of the greatest vocalists of all time" to the first paragraph, just to establish it more. Mirrored7 (talk) 21:13, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

This was moved further into the lead per this thread above. I did not participate in that discussion but will note that singling out a specific publication in the opening paragraph seems to go against MOS:OPEN, which cautions against going into specifics in the opening paragraph. It also appears to give undue weight to a single publication. Aoi (青い) (talk) 21:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, now that you mention it. @Ben0006

This was removed back in Spring for unexplained reason. It should definitely be a re-added back.

In September 2021, she joined as a coach of the twenty-first season of The Voice; Grande became the highest-paid coach in the show's history, earning a reported $25 million per season. Mirrored7 (talk) 20:50, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Grande is now the female artist with the most songs over one billion streams on Spotify, with 17. Update. @Ben0006

Alos, add, "She was declared the Top Global Female Recording Artist of 2018 by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI)", to her "Achievements" section.

Source: https://www.musicweek.com/talent/read/drake-named-ifpi-s-global-recording-artist-of-2018/075443 Mirrored7 (talk) 20:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

+ Grande has 22 top tens and ten number one songs on the Mainstream Top 40. Mirrored7 (talk) 08:12, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Where does the 22 top-tens and 10 number-ones part go exactly? In the chart-related paragraph in "Awards and recognition"?

Ben | he/him (talk) 09:59, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Yup. Mirrored7 (talk) 10:21, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Also, remove "On the Billboard 200 decade-end chart of the 2010s, the album ranked at number 68" and "the fourth-best-selling album by a woman", as number 68 and fourth-best selling, aren't that significant. Mirrored7 (talk) 10:26, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

It does not explicitly state that she was honored with that specific title. However, it can be added that she was one of the top 10 global recording artists of 2018 (#8), 2019 (#6), and 2020 (#8), and she was the top or highest-ranked woman in the list of 2018 (second being Lady Gaga at #9).

Ben | he/him (talk) 10:01, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

1. Yes. Also, don't forgot the Pop Airplay info. Add them both in the Achievements section. She is also now the female artist with the most songs with over a billion streams on Spotify. Add in the lead. @Ben0006

2. Career section: It's enough to mention, that she was on SNL twice, performing and hosting, and she performed at the MET Gala with Cynthia Eviro this year. However, I would remove unnecessary details like the songs she performed. Also remove, YouTube session info, as it was insignificant to her career and only promotion. That too, "Grande performed a medley of "Imagine", "My Favorite Things", "7 Rings", and "Thank U, Next". Source: https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/snl-season-50-hosts-ariana-grande-john-mulaney-michael-keaton-1236149087/

3. Revert the change, that was made back in early August with combining the Achievements and Impact section, now "Awards and recognitions". Both should be apart, as Grande is a significant figure who has made enough impact on pop culture.

4. "tying with Justin Bieber for the third-most chart-toppers and with Maroon 5 for the third-most top-tens. With 30 weeks at number one across her ten leaders, she has the seventh-most weeks at the summit." and "In February 2021, "34+35" replaced "Positions" at the top spot of the Pop Airplay chart, making Grande the first artist to succeed herself at number one as the only act credited on both tracks. She also is just the fifth artist in history to replace themselves on the Pop Songs airplay chart.[201] Grande also simultaneously occupied the top two spots of the airplay chart with the two tracks, becoming the first artist to simultaneously occupy the top two with two solo songs, and just the sixth artist ever to simultaneously occupy the entire top two of the chart." That's too much information too and you already mentioned the latter in the career section. Mirrored7 (talk) 14:04, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 Update "Grande is also one of the highest-certified artists in the UK, with nearly 28 million units" to "one of the best selling female artists in the UK, with over 31 million units", and include the article in it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_female_music_artists_in_the_United_Kingdom

Also, "The Boy Is Mine" peaked at #16, back in March, when the whole album charted on the Hot 100. Not afterwards. Mirrored7 (talk) 15:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Adding later today!

Ben | he/him (talk) 16:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 Remove unnecessary TV shows and only keep notable movies; Hairspray Live, Don't Look Up, The Wicked movies on Filmography. Mirrored7 (talk) 19:14, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Please reorganize the Filmography section, similar Taylor Swift's. Films on one side, Documentaries on the other (One Love Manchester, Excuse Me, I Love You, etc.). Remove "The Voice", as her stint was only for one season and not that significant to her career. Mirrored7 (talk) 19:27, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Please revert "Regarded as a pop icon and an influential figure in popular music". It's sourced, and was removed without further explanation. @Ben0006 Mirrored7 (talk) 19:03, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Change the introduction to "Regarded as a pop icon and an influential figure in popular music and having received widespread public interest, she is noted for her four-octave vocal range and her signature use of the whistle register. She was named among the ten greatest pop stars of the 21st century by Billboard, and one of the greatest vocalists of all time by Rolling Stone." @Ben0006 Mirrored7 (talk) 09:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

"Regarded as a pop icon and an influential figure in popular music and having received widespread public interest, she is noted for her four-octave vocal range and her signature use of the whistle register. She was named among the ten greatest pop stars of the 21st century by Billboard, and one of the greatest vocalists of all time by Rolling Stone."

⠀

Isn't the first sentence too..? I don't know, maybe a little long or complex in a manner?

⠀

And the part about the listicles is included in the last paragraph.

Ben | he/him (talk) 12:53, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

"Regarded as a pop icon and an influential figure in popular music, she received widespread public interest, and is noted for her four-octave vocal range and her signature use of the whistle register." Does it read better?

Grande is not only known for her voice, she's a big public figure, who's known for her fashion and beauty brands, controversies, her relationships/private life. I think, it's pretty appropriate to add it to the intro.

The "Rolling Stone" and "Billboard" should be put higher, in the intro, as they both represent her status as a one of the best vocalist and one of the gretest pop stars. Also, the last section is pretty long and intro spare, so this will do the trick. Mirrored7 (talk) 16:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I and other editors have opposed this in the past. Saying she "received widespread public interest" is very vague and doesn't add anything meaningful to the lead paragraph. Second, the proposal to move material from the last paragraph to the first goes against what was discussed at Talk:Ariana Grande/Archive 8#Move information, which I didn't participate in but agree with the outcome. Aoi (青い) (talk) 18:03, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I haven't said to move her awards to the top, only the Billboard and Rolling Stone information, as they are significant accomplishments. Mirrored7 (talk) 18:46, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

@Olivergrandeee As the talk page request above came from you, would you agree, to at least add the Billboard and Rolling Stone information, like described, at the top? First, describes Grande as one of the greatest pop stars of the 21st century, second as the greatest vocalist of all time. Mirrored7 (talk) 17:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

The purpose of the discussion I linked was to keep information about Grande's accolades together. Further, while I agree this information is important, I don't think it is WP:DUE to give so much weight to the opinion of two specific publications in the third sentence of the article. Aoi (青い) (talk) 17:43, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

I understand. But it gives sentences before (Pop icon, influential figure) more weight. Also, the last section is so long, while the intro is too short. The Beyoncé and Katy Perry intros, have Rolling Stone and Billboard mentioned too. Mirrored7 (talk) 18:08, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Ricky Alveraz is the only past boyfriend, who hasn't been added to the "Relationships" section. Please add. @Ben0006 Source: https://people.com/celebrity/ariana-grande-and-boyfriend-ricky-alvarez-break-up/ Mirrored7 (talk) 17:20, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006

Please don't forget to add the information above.

Also, Grande has now 18 songs with a billion streams. Update it.

+ Grande has relesed 18 fragrances so far. Four were released this year.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2486699/ariana-grande-unveils-global-fragrance-line-lovenotes Mirrored7 (talk) 20:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 Why have you removed the information of her having all her albums achieving platinum status from the lead?

For the third time, please add, that she was with her dancer Ricky Alvarez. They both were in a relationship for over a year. She even mentioned him in her single "Thank U, Next". Mirrored7 (talk) 03:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Don't you think that line is a little redundant for an already somewhat long last paragraph?

I think that having it stated and sourced in the prose/body of the article is more than enough, alluding it to being something significant. But considering the size and stature of name/artist Grande is, that information does not feel as important/worth mentioning in the article's lead. Artists like Taylor Swift, Rihanna, Beyoncé, and Nicki Minaj also have all of their albums certified platinum status or higher, but when you look over at their article leads, that is not mentioned.

Maybe once Eternal Sunshine and Positions are certified double (or higher) platinum—the latter which has been eligible for higher since nearly two years now—the line can be readded that all of her albums are certified "multiplatinum" or higher.

Ben | he/him (talk) 10:22, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 For the top: Describing "Wicked" as only musical fantasy is a bit unspecific. Let's rephrase it to "the film adaptation of the fantasy musical Wicked (2024)". Mirrored7 (talk) 21:20, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Would the (2024) be after:

Wicked (2024) (which would link to the musical) or after film adaptation (2024)?

Also, is it better "returned to acting with Don't Look Up and [Wicked mention]" or should it be "and starred as Glinda in [Wicked mention]", since she already returned to acting in 2021?

Ben | he/him (talk) 22:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

After film adaptation (2024).

"She returned to acting with the political satire Don't Look Up (2021) and starred as Glinda in the film adapation of the fantasy musical Wicked (2024)." @Ben0006

Also, please remove Fergie as one of the artists, Grande was inspired by. The article is over ten years ago, she only mentions the song specifically, not her as an artist. There are also no other sources other than that one, I could find. Mirrored7 (talk) 08:09, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 Edit: I rephrased again.

"...and starred as Glinda in the musical fantasy film Wicked (2024)." People will eventually know, that this is a film adaptation of the broadway musical.

Again, remove Fergie from her influences section. She only mentions the song "Clumsy", not the singer specifically.

Thanks. Mirrored7 (talk) 14:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

@PHShanghai While I appreciate your recent changes. Why you removed genres like Pop & EDM? After her debut album, she clearly experimented with more genres than R&B. Also "Into You" wasn't as big as the others songs globally. No need to mention that. The mention of the number one debuts, was better before, as it puts in retroperspective. The record will be clearly be broken sooner or later. Mirrored7 (talk) 09:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Pop and R&B have been and will continue to be her main genres for almost every single album she's put out. The only time she ever deviated from a traditional Pop & R&B album was Sweetener andTUN, and that was only because she included more trap influences while still keeping her urban pop sound. "Into You" was a pretty big global hit imo, but if you want to replace it with something else from the Dangerous Woman era, go ahead.

Additionally, she still holds the record for the most number one debuts for a female artist. If that will be broken by someone else then we will change it; otherwise, if she's currently holding the record for most number one debuts, then she should keep it per WP:CRYSTALBALL rule. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 11:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

She still experimented with other music generes on her albums. This should be pointed out in the lead.

She holds the record in general in general, not only for female artists. Mirrored7 (talk) 13:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006

(There was nothing wrong with the first paragraph, please revert):

Grande's debut studio album, Yours Truly (2013), incorporated retro-pop and R&B elements and yielded the successful single "The Way". My Everything (2014), her second album, experimented with EDM and contained the internationally successful singles "Problem", "Break Free", and the RIAA diamond-certified "Bang Bang". Grande further explored pop and R&B with her third album Dangerous Woman (2016), which solidified her critical and commercial success.

...and made Grande the first solo artist to simultaneously occupy the top three positions on the chart ALONG with "Break Up with Your Girlfriend, I'm Bored".

She broke the record for the most number-one debuts in Hot 100 history

(She broke the record in general, not only for women).

After a musical hiatus, Grande ventured into dance music on her seventh album. Mirrored7 (talk) 10:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

The first paragraph was fine but the condensation and bringing of two albums into joint material stated together is much easier to read and comprehend, imo.

⠀

About the musicality of those two albums is included, and the sentence about the Dangerous Woman album does feel pretty redundant, in a manner that it stretches the paragraph, due to the "further explored [genres]" and "solidified her success" line. The latter was added to the new sentence and the old version seemed like that was just stated for the sake of having something to say about the album, when there isn't much to say about it in the lead, worth mentioning seperately, unless it's something about its role in her artistry, musical composition, or any records or awards.

⠀

In regard to the mention of dance music, there needs to be an explicit mention of that in some source, or it can be replaced with a mention of the album containing dance elements and influences, rather than being a primarily dance-oriented body itself. Maybe that line can be rephrased. Let me know if you have any ideas.

⠀

Ben | he/him (talk) 20:11, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006

Grande continued to blend pop, dance, and R&B influences on her next albums, My Everything (2014), and Dangerous Woman (2016), solidifying her critical and commercial success. How is that?

Don't forget to add "along" before "Break Up with Your Girlfriend, I'm Bored".

Also PLEASE remove Mac Miller. Remove Into You, and put Side to Side after Bang Bang. Thanks! Mirrored7 (talk) 21:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

1. Remove Mac Miller. All the songs that have features, are not mentioned. That shouldn't be too.

2. Maybe combine the genres for both two albums, EDM, Pop, R&B. "...experimented or explored with EDM, Pop and R&B. Remove "Into You", as it didn't reach top ten in either US or UK. Also "Side to Side" came after "Bang Bang".

3. ...the top three positions on the chart ALONG with "Break Up with Your Girlfriend, I'm Bored".

(It reads better with the along, add it again)

4. She broke the number one debut record in general, not just for a woman.

Also link the articles to the genres. You forgot too add it for: retro-pop, EDM, dance music

Mirrored7 (talk) 20:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

References

Added!

Ben | he/him (talk) 05:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Mirrored7 (talk) 05:55, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 While I appreciate your most recent changes, I think, "has over 100 million certified units (album and songs) sold in the US", in the lead is too much info, as it's already in the Achievements section and the lead is getting to long, so "all of her studio albums have been certified platinum or higher by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) and she is among the fifth-highest-certified female digital singles artist on their Top Artists (Digital Singles) ranking."

Also, Grande has now the MOST songs with over a billion streams for a woman on Spotify, in a tie with Rihanna and she has sold over 131 million units, across albums, singles, and features, not 108. Mirrored7 (talk) 05:54, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

I removed the units sentence in the lead and added about the tie with Rihanna.

Regarding the number of the units, 108 million is the total number of RIAA certified sales, albums (12 million) and singles (95.5 million) combined, according to the RIAA database. However, it does not take into account certified units as a feature.

So, is 131 million the number including features, what you mean?

I also noticed that "Bang Bang", which was certified diamond in May, is not included in/added to her certifications? The diamond units was stated as 0. And she is a co-lead artist on the single, not a feature.

Ben | he/him (talk) 06:38, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

The units are in here, when you go directly after her name. I'm pretty sure, that's the number when you count the features. There should be a note to search Grande's features in the database, so there will be no misunderstanding, or it could be misleading. Mirrored7 (talk) 08:20, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Chappell Roan recently stated admiration for Grande, describing herself as "an Arianator". Maybe add her to the artists, Grande has influenced. Mirrored7 (talk) 09:13, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Don't really understand your problem. What does that have to do with the lenght of Grande's career, when in fact, the streaming era started less than ten years ago and she is one of the most streamed artists of all time. When does "all the time" work? When she is about 50 and 30 years in her career? Many artists have "all the time" in their lead and their doing it way less years in their careers than her. Is their any rule for that, or is that your opinion? @Escape Orbit Mirrored7 (talk) 05:00, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

@Mirrored7 I don't know why you have dropped this into the middle of another discussion. If you have a question for me, please introduce it in proper context to explain what you are referencing. Would also appreciate it not being personalised as "your problem". This page is to discuss improvements with the article. Thanks. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 08:32, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 When I think about it, re-add "and has over 131 million certified units sold (across album, songs and features) in the US". Just mention the features too, so there will be no confusion.

Grande and Rihanna are now both the female artists with the MOST songs with over a billion. It reads SECOND-most.

Add more information to Eternal Sunhine. Maybe "After a musical hiatus, Grande ventured into dance music on her seventh album, Eternal Sunshine (2024), which received critical acclaim and produced the number-one singles "Yes, And?" and "We Can't Be Friends (Wait for Your Love)". It became her fourth consecutive number one album on the Billboard 200.

Restructure the paragraph about informations about her Spotify achievements:

"On Spotify, Grande was the most-streamed female act of the 2010s, has the second-most songs with over a billion streams for a woman, with 16, and is the second-most streamed female artist on the platform, as of 2024."

Remove specific Instagram follower number, as many celebrities are losing followers right now, because of the removal of spam accounts and just mention that she is "the third-most-followed female and sixth-most-followed individual on Instagram".

Re-add "ever" behind "one of the most streamed artists, as the conversation is about whenever to add "all the time". Mirrored7 (talk) 05:39, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

The source of 98 billion streams was randomly removed back in Spring. @Flabshoe1

Deadline is a reliable source, so it should be re-added back, as Grande is still the most streamed artist overall as of 2021, and there has been no other source claiming otherwise since then. So, "Having amassed 98 billion streams thus far, she is one of the most-streamed artists ever, and the most-streamed female artist as of 2021."

@Ben0006 Mirrored7 (talk) 19:48, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

References

Thanks, I'll add 98 billion streams back now that we have a source for it. Is there a source for her being the most streamed artist overall or female artist as of 2021? (Edit: I found this article in the history which states she became the first female artist with 90 billion streams in 2021, so bringing this back too). Flabshoe1 (talk) 20:44, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

References

@Ben0006 Add her Facebook and TikTok pages to "external links". Add Twitter info with sources, as it's worth knowing, that she had a Twitter Account.

nearly 90 million followers: https://www.geo.tv/latest/389693-ariana-grande-leaves-fans-completely-baffled-as-she-deactivates-twitter-account

with 85 million followers: https://www.newsweek.com/twitter-celebrities-least-favorite-social-platform-elon-musk-buy-1701104

Re-add Instagram count and placements with sources, as it's impressive neverthless.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2024/03/01/who-has-the-most-followers-on-instagram/72524222007/

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-the-most-followers-on-instagram-soccer-stars-kardashians-2023-11

Mirrored7 (talk) 06:54, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:ELMINOFFICIAL, her Facebook and TikTok pages should not be included in the external links. And requesting that another user add her IG follower count, etc., despite a lack of consensus to do so in the thread below (#Source for Social Media followers is not advisable. Aoi (青い) (talk) 07:26, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Re-etablish "Impact" section

Hello guys, I don't know why Ariana's Impact section was deleted and why its content was moved to the "awards and recognition" section, but I demand that the Impact section be restored, because it is obvious that Ariana already has her place within the music industry and her impact on pop culture is undeniable, so please, I call the motion to restore what was already there, please. 2800:BF0:60:F22:91A8:2AB7:D321:91B0 (talk) 12:00, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. The change was pointless. Can you fix this? @Ben0006 Grande has made enough of an impact in the industry that she deserves her own "Impact" section and the "Achievements" section is long enough already.

Grande will most likely be placed in the top ten of the "Billboard’s Greatest Pop Stars of the 21st Century" this month. So, let's wait until then, so the section can be updated, with more content. Mirrored7 (talk) 20:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mirrored7

Oh thank u so much, please do everything to restore the Impact section. Personally i think it was unfair to remove it because Ariana certainly has impact on music industry and life overall. 186.65.53.238 (talk) 14:35, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 Again, can you fix this? Orginally there was a "Achievements" and "Impact" section both which are now "Awards and recognitions". Look it up and revert it.

Edits:

https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Ariana_Grande&diff=prev&oldid=1239434628

https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Ariana_Grande&diff=prev&oldid=1239434825 Mirrored7 (talk) 14:58, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

I'll look into it and revert it. I will just check and make sure that any new content added since the change, is not deleted.

Reformatting later today. Thanks!

Ben | he/him (talk) 16:13, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Great. Thanks! Mirrored7 (talk) 11:09, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi there, so it's a perfect time to restore Impact section since the greatest pop stars 21st century article came out and we can add some of it. Thanks!

https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/ariana-grande-greatest-pop-stars-21st-century-1235804073/ 186.65.52.87 (talk) 20:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Great work! @Ben0006 While you are it, can you finally re-establish the "Achievements" and "Impact" section?

There are some good points from the new Billboard article, that showcases Grande's impact in pop music;

Her influence on newer pop artists;

"Trace that ring from start to finish, and you’ll witness something fascinating; a young woman who managed not only to transform her pain into prosperity, but created a mold-breaking model for success. The career framework Grande built has only benefitted recent pop ingénues like Sabrina Carpenter and Tate McRae, who’ve capitalized on her streaming-focused strategies and sweetly melodic (and slyly winking) pop&B sound to rocket-launch their own music. Ariana Grande consciously changed how pop music is perceived and enjoyed by the masses, in a way a new generation of fans and artists will forever be so f–king grateful for."

Billboard stating that Grande’s “thank u, next” is an album that reshaped the entire music streaming industry;

"Where Adele had revit album sales in 2010, Grande became proof of concept at how the streaming era could generate gargantuan pop idols in the modern music business. Curating the social media experience for her army of Arianators over the course of her career paid dividends in Grande’s modern eras, as her loyal fan base rallied to support their fave at all costs, even as they occasionally crossed the line with comments about her image and personal life. She learned from the prolificacy of her hip-hop contemporaries like Drake that more was more when it came to content creation. Putting those two skills together, Grande became the artist to beat in the streaming game. " Mirrored7 (talk) 12:56, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Would the Impact section be well sized enough to split though?

And I believe much of that will be converted into prose, to avoid too many quotes.

Ben | he/him (talk) 17:21, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Probably, if we add the Billboard article. I have some similar articles/sources about Grande's impact, I can later post in here. It should be similar to the likes of Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Bruno Mars or Adele's Impact/Legacy sections. We definitely could get it to 3-4 sections.

I know this needs some time, and is not as easy, because of phrasing and adding sources, so please don't rush. I just want to make sure, you have it on your radar. Mirrored7 (talk) 19:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Sounds perfect.

Yes, it will take time, but will be done gradually. (Some) content about honors by publications and artists inspired/influenced is there already.

The excerpts you shared from the Billboard article will be added eventually.

Ben | he/him (talk) 19:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi everybody. So since the Christina Aguilera's interview from Rolling Stone came out she said this about Ariana and her production skills: “i’m not the girl who sits behind a line board visually & does my own. i’m like, God bless, Ariana, i’m not that girl”. If you can add this on Impact section would be amazing, something similar what Katy Perry said. Thank you so much for your labor.

https://youtube/jGwkU0DC8ec?si=kVxD6HWxRvryH3FL 2800:BF0:60:F22:8527:F403:EB60:5B8D (talk) 10:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Name Pronunciation

It's not the correct pronunciation. It's not Grahnday, it's Grandee. 2A02:3100:6468:2F00:B58B:7BD:E8AD:26EC (talk) 10:17, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

The pronunciation is still wrong! 2A02:3100:592E:200:F06D:CA61:5F43:9A47 (talk) 15:04, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

You won't get any traction here unless you show WP:SECONDARY sources supporting your pronunciation. Binksternet (talk) 16:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpUTDAfktYU 2A02:3100:5E24:B00:ACC3:F680:254E:D1E4 (talk) 14:58, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

She literally hasn’t referred to herself as “Grandee” since this interview. In every interview shes done since (most recently Wicked press) It’s Grahn-day. It shouldn’t be changed because that’s how everyone (including herself) pronounces her name now. Olivergrandeee (talk) 22:06, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

+ Plus that Beats interview is already referenced in a note next to her name Olivergrandeee (talk) 22:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@2A02:3100:6468:2F00:B58B:7BD:E8AD:26EC what are you even talking abt 161.142.119.25 (talk) 05:33, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Source for Social Media followers

I'm kinda irritated. Since when, do you need sources for followers from Forbes etc., when you have literal access to that artists accounts, where can you see the most accurate number. Isn't it the biggest source you can get? Every artist has it sourced that way. @Lililolol Mirrored7 (talk) 18:05, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Can you reverted? @Ben0006 Thanks! Mirrored7 (talk) 18:57, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Bruhh why reverte :) Lililolol (talk) 19:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Seemed like a fine removal to me. Citing follower counts using primary sources does not establish notability of the numbers themselves, and linking to wiki articles like List of most-followed Instagram accounts for specific rankings is not appropriate as WP:Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Much of that paragraph is unencyclopedic in its current form. Prefall 19:34, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Prefall

Tik Tok numbers: https://www.rnd.de/medien/ariana-grande-spricht-ueber-bodyshaming-appell-auf-tiktok-J57VXAHV4ZB5NEJLKZNEXMA53Q.html (Reliable German source)

Instgram numbers: https://www.brandwatch.com/blog/top-most-instagram-followers/ (One of the most reliable social media sources.)

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2024/03/01/who-has-the-most-followers-on-instagram/72524222007/

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-the-most-followers-on-instagram-soccer-stars-kardashians-2023-11

380 million which is a much closer number than 150 million.

Sources about her deleted Twitter account:

nearly 90 million followers: https://www.geo.tv/latest/389693-ariana-grande-leaves-fans-completely-baffled-as-she-deactivates-twitter-account

with 85 million followers: https://www.newsweek.com/twitter-celebrities-least-favorite-social-platform-elon-musk-buy-1701104 Mirrored7 (talk) 20:53, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mirrored7 Artist accounts fall under primary sources (WP:PSTS), which is why they were tagged, also primary sources aren’t always reliable, and I don't think we should include follower counts unless the amount is significant (per WP:SIGCOV). By significant, I mean platforms like her Instagram and Spotify, which have a notable number of followers that received coverage—unlike her Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok, which don’t need to be included due to the lack of notability, i.e., coverage. Lililolol (talk) 19:47, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Prefall There are sources for the numbers outside follower counts. I would agree, for TikTok and Facebook, as there is really not enough coverage. However, I would add them on "external links".

Grande is known for her strong social media following, which heavily counts in her Instagram. Her having 380 million is worth mentioning, as it's a high number and therefore impressive. Her being "the sixth most followed individual and third female", is worth being mentiond too, as many celebrities are losing followers right now, with Instagram removing bots and fake accounts, the placements will not change any time soon. Stating "that she one of the most followed", would not make the reader think, that she is among the top ten most followed. Mirrored7 (talk) 07:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

@Lililolol Sources about her Instagram followers and deleted Twitter are available.

So must of it should be re-added back.

Most recent Instagram numbers: https://www.brandwatch.com/blog/top-most-instagram-followers/

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2024/03/01/who-has-the-most-followers-on-instagram/72524222007/

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-the-most-followers-on-instagram-soccer-stars-kardashians-2023-11

Sources about her deleted Twitter account:

https://www.geo.tv/latest/389693-ariana-grande-leaves-fans-completely-baffled-as-she-deactivates-twitter-account

https://www.newsweek.com/twitter-celebrities-least-favorite-social-platform-elon-musk-buy-1701104 Mirrored7 (talk) 09:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Month is wrong.

By citation 322 it reads, "as of November... It's still October.  A Reader here1 (talk) 16:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that. I have corrected that error. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 18:01, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 October 2024

Add to Relationships: Ariana began dating Broadway actor Ethan Slater in July 2023. 2600:1009:B102:EF04:657A:FA20:FC54:A834 (talk) 02:24, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

References

 Done Charliehdb (talk) 06:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Ariana Grande's Freaky Forever (S1-S3)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_KgIsYMKy8

is this encyclopedic? what is it?

16:07, 3 November 2024 (UTC) 69.181.17.113 (talk) 16:07, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 November 2024

I would love to change or request to anyone for Ariana's picture to be from the Wicked premiere. Where she is glowing and smiling. Thank you! ShatterTheseWords (talk) 15:26, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: If this is the image I've seen, it's copyrighted and cannot be used on Wikipedia. Wikipedia's image use requires images to either be within the public domain or published under a compatible free license. (If you know of a photo that meets these requirements, please feel free to link to it so others can assess it.) Thank you. Aoi (青い) (talk) 20:34, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 November 2024 (2)

Please change her picture: the pretty one where shes smiling in her pretty wicked preimer dress!(Pic can be found on twitter)

File:20241104 145639.jpg

2600:1005:B069:5A3E:6C5A:13B7:9138:AD03 (talk) 20:05, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The image you linked to doesn't exist on Wikipedia. However, if this is the image I've seen, it's copyrighted and cannot be used on Wikipedia. Wikipedia's image use requires images to either be within the public domain or published under a compatible free license. (If you know of a photo that meets these requirements, please feel free to link to it so others can assess it.) Thank you. Aoi (青い) (talk) 20:37, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 November 2024

173.245.253.147 (talk) 16:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC) I was going to update the picture with a more recent photo

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. Myrealnamm's Alternate Account (talk) 17:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Spotify metrics in lead

Per WP:BADCHART, her statistics being the most streamed person on Spotify etc cannot be in the lead as it goes against Wikipedia's content guidelines that charts pertaining to one retailer/music provider should not be used. Ergo, this is the same reason why iTunes or Amazon Music charts are not used in Wikipedia articles. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 14:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

The 98 billion info should still be re-added. It's important, as it as its describes her as the most streamed artist in general, and there is no mention of Spotify or other provider in it. Mirrored7 (talk) 18:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 Please re-add the 98 billion data. Thanks. Mirrored7 (talk) 19:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Upon reviewing WP:BADCHART, PHShanghai's edit was indeed consistent with that guideline (BADCHART and WP:CHART apply to prose as well as discography charts). Unless there is a compelling reason (and consensus) to bypass a Wikipedia content guideline (and I don't see either here), this shouldn't be readded. Aoi (青い) (talk) 19:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

In what way goes this sentence: "With over 98 billion streams globally, she is the most-streamed female act as of 2021", aginst the guideline? It's described without naming any provider like Amazon/Spotify specifically. Isn't it the reason why it was removed in the first place? @Aoi Mirrored7 (talk) 20:00, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the guideline's intention is that a single retailer chart is ok to use, just as long as you don't say which chart. That would be even worse. I think the problem is not with including a count of Spotify streams, but in the use of a Spotify chart that ranks that count against others. That's a fair point. While Spotify is a major player in streaming, it is only one platform. Its counts are not necessarily representative of streaming activity across the entire internet. Which is a bias the guideline is about avoiding. I assume the 98 billion figure is across all platforms? Where does it come from, is it sourced?--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 21:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, those numbers are in general. It's sourced by two reliable sources. I would agree to remove the Spotify numbers, they are still in her Achievements section anyway. However, her having 98 billion streams across all streaming platforms, is a rare achievement and one of her biggest accomplishments, which should stay in the lead. Especially as it not says Spotify or any other platform specifically. @Escape Orbit Mirrored7 (talk) 22:11, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I think I misunderstood Mirrored's proposal. It looks like the 98 billion figure is sourced in the article body to this article, which reads in part, By age 28, she released six albums which have all gone platinum and has surpassed 98 billion streams globally – she's Spotify’s most streamed female artist of the past decade – while rapidly becoming one of the biggest pop stars of our generation with her powerhouse vocals and unmatched presence both on stage and with her fans. It's not clear whether the 98 billion streams is a Spotify-only figure, but Spotify is mentioned in the same sentence.

The article also doesn't say anything about being "the most streamed female act [ever]." That's from a second source, this article, which says Grande recently surpassed 90 billion streams consumed worldwide, the most ever by a female artist.

The way the sentence is proposed to be written, it reads like WP:SYNTH since there's no source that directly references both the 98 billion streams and the "most-streamed female act" part. Given the Synth issue and the fact that the two sources cite different figures, I would propose simply leaving out the figure altogether and just say that, as of 2021, she was the most-streamed female artist worldwide. Aoi (青い) (talk) 22:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

First source was from April 2021, which stated that she recently surpassed 90 billion consumed streams, the most by ANY female artist. The second was from months later, November 2021, stating 98 billion. I would trust the later more, as it's the most recent. She only recently surpassed 50 billion streams on Spotify, so I doubt this comes from the platform only, especially in 2021. Those numbers are mostly from Spotify, Apple Music and YouTube.

Just re-add the senetence with the 98 billion data as it was. There's nothing wrong with that, it's all sourced and doesn't go against guidelines. Mirrored7 (talk) 22:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Unless you provide a source that explicitly states: "Grande has surpassed 98 billion streams across multiple streaming platforms including Spotify, Apple Music and YouTube", I don't see why the data should be re-added to the lead when there's not enough sources to support it.

Furthermore, why is this information lead-worthy and not on Ariana Grande singles discography or the Achievements section instead? What does her high amount of streams contribute to the conversation regarding her commercial success; which we can use other metrics for instead, like her amount of Billboard Hot 100 number ones? Why does the content need to be included? PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 08:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Why you need a source that explicitly states it. It's obvious why what is meant by that. Grande has been very successful in streaming, why not mention it in the lead? There are two major sources of the 98 billion streams info. So we should ignore her streaming accomplishments all together, just because you're not satisfied with it? Mirrored7 (talk) 09:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Because every text in every Wikipedia article requires a clear and reliable source, per WP:RS. Using two vague sources to conclude something is WP:SYNT. I didn't say her streaming accomplishments should be ignored; I said that her streaming accomplishments should be sourced properly according to the guidelines. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 11:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

They are sourced properly. It depends, on what mean with "properly". For me, the source has been very clear. And since the three years the source has been up, no one has ever complained about it either. Mirrored7 (talk) 13:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I look up the sources again. It 98 billion is the most recent reported number. "The most by any female artist", which makes her the most streamed female artist, AT LEAST for that time, that's why, "as of 2021". Since then, there has been no higher figure reported for any other female artist. It has no provider listed, it has TWO reliable sources. Mirrored7 (talk) 20:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Dance music

@Ben0006:, Hiya, was just wondering what sources are there for ES being a dance album? The article page lists "pop" and "R&B" as the two main genres. Personally, as someone who's listened to the album myself, the only true "dance" songs are "bye", "yes and?", and "we can't be friends". The rest of the album seems to be her usual R&B pop mix. When I think of a dance album, what usually comes to mind is something like Charli XCX's Brat or Madonna's Confessions. Mostly it is the same genres as most of Ariana's albums, which isn't inherently a bad thing but not really a strong enough argument to call it a "dance" album. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 11:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

No one called it a dance album. It still has dance/house influences too. That's why, "ventured into dance music". Mirrored7 (talk) 13:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry! That was a copy-paste mistake. Corrected! Ben | he/him (talk) 20:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 November 2024

Please use a better photo. This is from her lie detector video and makes her outfit look odd due to the machine apparatus. There are plenty of “Wicked” red carpet photos to choose from. 2600:1009:B01E:5104:2970:137F:8BB2:1398 (talk) 15:26, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Not done... please format your request as "change X to Y", with sources as needed. If there is a free image that you know of that we can use, please upload it or link it. We can't just use any image off the internet without concern for ownership. - Adolphus79 (talk) 15:40, 17 November 2024 (UTC)