Talk:Antony Gibbs & Sons

Reference for "Burt"?

Four citations point to "Burt", but no reference is give. Please provide the reference. 2600:4040:28CC:1100:211B:4675:5D6C:2925 (talk) 14:07, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Make significant changes to article

Hello, I'd like to edit this article so that it focuses on the subject, Antony Gibbs & Sons not on Gibbs, Bright & Co., which was a completely different company until 1881with different partners.

The information about the SS Great Britain appears on the page of the ship, and relates to Gibbs, Bright & Co., which at that time wasn't connected to Antony Gibbs & Sons, so shouldn't be on this page. Antony Gibbs & Sons DID aquire the SS Great Britain but not until 1882 (the ship's page has this wrong - the SS Great Britain's website has it correct.)

There could be more information about Antony Gibbs and how the company started and it's connections to Spain.

A key text about the Gibbs family isn't cited - Fragile Fortunes by Elizabeth Neill which it should be.

It would be helpful if the names of family members had their birth and death dates, and if it was made clearer who was related to whom.

If anyone would like to collaborate, do let me know. Ruthhenrietta (talk) 17:00, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@Ruthhenrietta Just to confirm that I support your proposal to improve this article, and have given you advice on how to go about this at the Teahouse. (Latest advice here). I'll keep this page on my Watchlist - ping me if you need further input from me. Nick Moyes (talk) 13:21, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes I've finished making all the changes to the Antony Gibbs & Sons article - would be great if you could take a look and see if I've done it OK!! Ruthhenrietta (talk) 17:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

New draft

I've re-written the the Antony Gibbs page in my Sandbox, and plan to replace with old with the new in a couple of weeks. Please let me know if you have any comments. User:Ruthhenrietta/sandbox#cite ref-:0 1-3 Ruthhenrietta (talk) 15:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I have recently stumbled across Anthony Gibbs & Sons involvement in the Amazon rubber boom and the exploitation of indigenous peoples for the extraction of rubber. This company purchased the assets of an independent rubber merchant and established the Tambopata Rubber Syndicate in the border area between Bolivia and Peru. Gibbs was the proprietor of the rubber estate that the rubber syndicate operated on, and Gibbs was also the company which exported the Tambopata rubber for a 3% commission. The rubber syndicate depended on an indigenous workforce and implemented the “hooking by debts” system of debt bondage. This information comes from a 2022 article by Nicolas John Madge, titled The Infernal Tambopata* British Involvement in Twentieth Century Slavery in Peru and Bolivia. Madge provides some financial information for Gibbs and the rubber syndicate as well as a history of the latter, as well as the reason for liquidation. Arawoke (talk) 14:53, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for this - very interesting. Are you happy to put information into my new draft, or to add it into the actual page, when I swap them over in a week or two's time? Ruthhenrietta (talk) 14:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, I have been busy! I have recently made a contribution to the article and developed a subsection for the Tambopata Rubber Syndicate. Please review that section and give feedback if necessary. I hope that all of the information is relative to the Antony Gibbs & Sons article even if it is going on a tangent for a company they funded. I am not sure if you would like financial information included in this article, however Madge mentions the price of rubber in 1908, 1909, 1911, 1912 and after the price of rubber collapsed. I would like to note that the section if dependent on the research of Nicolas John Madge, and he examined primary documents which I wish I had access too. Arawoke (talk) 21:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Arawoke - thanks for adding that. To be honest, my feeling is that by placing so much information about the Tambopata Rubber Sundicate on the Gibbs page, it gives their involvement in the company an undue emphasis - for them it was a very small part of their business. This has been confirmed by someone who has spent many years researching the Gibbs company. I wonder if what you've written shouldn't be a separate page, specifically about the TRS. What do you think? Ruthhenrietta (talk) 09:19, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply, I thought this might be the case. I will probably start drafting an article for the Tambopata Rubber Syndicate but I have maybe six drafts already active so that may take a while. For the time being, I would recommend reviewing and potentially deleting the information about the insurrection and maybe shortening the information regarding reports of abuse.

I feel like these points should at least remain on the Gibbs article, but you may feel differently.

• The Tambopata Rubber Syndicate, along with The Inca Mining Company and the Inca Rubber Company controlled %74 of the land ceded out by the Peruvian government around the Inambari and Tambopata Rivers during the rubber boom.
• Gibbs also claimed that it was three times more expensive to extract rubber in South America than it was to the far east.
• The Tambopata company practiced the "enganche por deudas" system, a term which translate to "hooking by debts".

Also I would like to emphasize that the Tambopata Rubber Syndicate was active between 1907-1912, when Peru was facing severe criticism for the perpetration of abuses against indigenous people during the rubber boom. This primarily focused on the Peruvian Amazon Company, also founded in 1907, and that company perpetrated a genocide. While the Peruvian Amazon Company was the only rubber company registered on the London stock exchange that was investigated, many others were accused and implicated with similar abuses, most notably the Tambopata Rubber Syndicate and Inambari Para-Rubber Estates, Limited. This alone warrants an article for TRS, and I believe in some way a mention on Gibbs page, however you may have a better understanding of how to implement this information onto Wikipedia than I do at the moment. Arawoke (talk) 16:35, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Arawoke - I've made the changes. If you are unsure how to create a page, then ask in the Teahouse - I'm very new to Wikipedia, and have received lots of help from them. They will help you create a new page for the rubber company. TWikipedia:Teahouse Ruthhenrietta (talk) 12:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)