Talk:Amy Alexander (artist)

Requested move 29 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) Iffy★Chat -- 09:40, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

---

• Amy Alexander → Amy Alexander (artist)
• Amy Alexander (disambiguation) → Amy Alexander

– No obvious primary topic. In terms of pageviews, the artist does not get more than the other articles listed on the DAB page put together. Searching the web for images of "Amy Alexander" returns a bunch of different people, with no single one being the most prominent. Therefore there doesn't seem to be one that is more likely than all the other topics combined to be the topic sought when searching for the name. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:39, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support move. This article doesn't appear to fit the descriptions listed at WP:PTOPIC. A web search returns this Amy Alexander along with several others (some without wikipedia articles) and no one individual predominating. Without a clear primary topic, it's better to dab all of the article titles and use Amy Alexander as the disambiguation page.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Schazjmd (talk • contribs) 00:14, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nomination and Schazjmd. The artist is not primary over the journalist Amy L. Alexander, also known as Amy Alexander. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:41, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 22:45, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Support even if some of the others were only sometimes "Amy Alexander" there probably wouldn't be a primary topic. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:35, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Notability template message, accuracy of page.

I am the subject of this page. I do not know who the contributors are/were. Most of the info is accurate, although incomplete and out of date. So it is not especially representative of my career.

As per the notability / potential deletion issues: There are quite a number of other sources available, but a) I cannot edit my own page and b) it's not clear to me what sourcing is needed. However, info and sources can be found at: https://amy-alexander.com/ https://amy-alexander.com/press/ https://amy-alexander.com/texts/ https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=gEjVsiIAAAAJ

What to do?

Mediamation (talk) 02:54, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@Mediamation The main problem with the sources you listed is that a decent majority of them are affiliated with you somehow; there's some in the "press" section of your website that are reviews, which is one kind of source that we're looking fo. What we need to prove notability is reliable, independent, third-party sources; that is, any source that you, friends, family, staff/co-workers, or anyone else who knows you professionally/personally didn't have a hand in creating. So, for example, no interviews, no press releases, etc. There's an exception to be made for things that only you know about (what inspires you, etc.) after notability is proven, but only a third-party source would prove that you're noted by others.

You can request the information within sources is added with {{edit COI}}; I've linked the template so you can more easily find out more information.

Most Wikipedia editors are pseudonymous, but you can find more information about who contributed what on the history page. I dream of horses ^{(Contribs) (Talk)} 06:23, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. Yes, sources not affiliated with me appear throughout the "Press" section and also in texts people have written which discussed my work or cited my writing as listed in the Google Scholar links. (There is a good bit of overlap between these.) I could list out the unrelated sources from those pages with COI... Is that all I need to do? Just list them? Or do I have to refer them to specific bits of text in the article? (Which may be difficult due to the incompleteness of Mediamation (talk) 07:34, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@Mediamation Listing the sources alongside whatever information you want added/expanded upon would be best. I dream of horses ^{(Contribs) (Talk)} 20:21, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Edit request - clarified

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

References for first paragraph:
https://whitney.org/exhibitions/profiling (documents whitney)
https://webarchive.ars.electronica.art/en/archives/prix_archive/prixjuryStatement.asp%3FiProjectID=13221.html (documents ars electronica)
https://history.siggraph.org/experience/the-multi-cultural-recycler-by-alexander/ (documents siggraph)
https://digitalartarchive.siggraph.org/person/amy-alexander/ (documents siggraph)
https://monoskop.org/images/a/a0/Next_5_Minutes_4_Program_Brochure_2003.pdf (documents a club performance)

Additional historically significant work to cite in the first paragraph: https://amy-alexander.com/projects/internet-art/thebot/
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/arts/design/web-works-that-insist-on-your-full-attention.html
https://rhizome.org/editorial/2023/jul/28/seed-stories-of-rhizome-and-generative-art/
https://seed.trlab.com/article/artbase-101

Additional content:
Her recent work, including What the Robot Saw, incorporates computer vision and "AI" and addresses issues of algorithmic subjectivity.
https://what-the-robot-saw.com/
https://webcurios.co.uk/webcurios-02-07-21/
https://cerna-skrinka.cz/data/book/black-box-book.pdf
https://www.art-action.org/site/en/cat/_random.php?code=Apk67501843
https://www.art-action.org/site/en/prog/22/berlin/prog_08_21.php
https://www.upstreamgallery.nl/exhibitions/194/appearances
https://iasl.uni-muenchen.de/links/NATippe.html

Additional general reference not affiliated with me:
https://monoskop.org/Amy_Alexander

• Why it should be changed:

I am the subject of this page. These are some of the updates/references requested on the page template, as best as I understand the request. You can find more references at:
https://amy-alexander.com/press/

Mediamation (talk) 03:21, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Can you explain @Mediamation, paragraph by paragraph, what you want to change? I.E. What specifically is wrong or missing?

As @I dream of horses detailed, you'll need third-party citations with which you are not affiliated for all claims.

Happy to help you update --FeldBum (talk) 20:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @FeldBum - I used what appeared to me to be the appropriate template for contributing this info on the Talk page (COI). That's why it's in that particular format, which may be a bit confusing in this case.

I'm really just trying to respond to the template messages appearing on the page - and other Wikipedia editors who requested more citations to establish notoriety. In the process, I notice that the page isn't especially complete or up to date; filling in a bit more info may also help establish notoriety. So I'm trying to provide support for Wikipedia editors with some additional examples. (I could add still more, but I don't want to belabor things!) I didn't write the Wikipedia page nor tell people what to write. So, I'm trying not to meddle in other people's editorial decisions, but rather to help fill in the blanks that seem to be needed based on the template messages.

That said: If I were an editor, I'd probably at least add "theBot" and "What the Robot Saw" among major projects in the paragraph under "Biography" that begins with "Alexander's first widely exhibited new media work..." This is indicated/cited in the second and third paragraphs I submitted above, where it says "Additional historically significant work to cite..."

You could also delete the sentence under Education: " She was also actively involved in the Cinema Workshop club and Rowan Radio 89.7 WGLS-FM." I don't think my college activities have been discussed/documented publicly - by me or anyone else. I imagine someone who knew me in college probably stumbled on the Wikipedia page and added it. But it doesn't seem to me like that info belongs there, and I doubt you will find public sources that document it. The rest of the Education section seems OK to me, as it's just basics of institutions and degrees.

The first paragraph I submitted, where it says, "References for first paragraph:..." is just a list of third-party links to help document the section " Her works have been exhibited and performed at museums, festivals, and conferences including the Whitney Museum, Transmediale, Ars Electronica, and SIGGRAPH. She has also performed in non-art venues including nightclubs and street performances." The links I provided are from the venues listed. I.e., the links document that my work was shown at those venues. (Let me know if you need something different.)

The one link that's affiliated with me is obviously https://amy-alexander.com/press/ - which is a list of citations/links I provide for reviewers of various sorts. The links on that page may help you or other Wikipedia editors establish notoriety if you wish to find more info your own. The links on that page are third-party sources. Unaffiliated with me, except as apparent in the last "More Links" section.

Also may (or may not) be of use: Links on my Google Scholar bio, which includes (mostly) scholarly papers and books that cite my work, as well as some of the texts I've authored/co-authored. They may help demonstrate notoriety, but these links would admittedly be hard to dig through unless someone was already embedded in the scholarship of the relevant areas.

I hope that helps clear things up and provide what you (and Wikipedia's templates) what you need! Mediamation (talk) 05:36, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Mediamation

Couple things and I think we can make some edits:

1. Do you have any third-party references for thebot and What the Robot Saw? By that I mean a publication unaffiliated with your or any gallery that covered those projects? That would be best--and it would help with the notability concerns you see here.
2. I can delete that line, especiallu since it is unsourced.
3. Links from the venues won't work, since the venues are themselves part of the story. When any editor here requests a third-party (3P) citation, they mean a source that is completely uninvolved with any party in the source. For example, if you won an award, your own website or social profiiles wouldn't work, since those are first-party. But the organization that gave the award would also not work, as they are the second party to the story. We need 3P, uninvolved coverage of the story.
4. Your press section is great, and I'll try to take a look at that. But if you can can comb through and find sources for everything item you want to add here, that would greatly expedite the process.

Hope that helps explain things and feel free to reach out for more. Just remember that we are all volunteers, so response times may occassionally be slow. --FeldBum (talk) 16:35, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Here's a link for theBot: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/arts/design/web-works-that-insist-on-your-full-attention.html

Yes, the others seem to be from Rhizome... and while they write about net art, they were also involved curatorially with that New Museum show and the recent SEED retrospective. There are likely more references in books, but harder to dig up without links.

What the Robot Saw:

https://webcurios.co.uk/webcurios-02-07-21/

https://cerna-skrinka.cz/data/book/black-box-book.pdf

https://fisheyemagazine.fr/article/rencontres-internationales-paris-berlin-les-promesses-de-ledition-2022/

Do you need references for the other projects, too? (Multi-Cultural Recycler had lots of them, and CyberSpaceLand and SVEN have a decent amount, as do some of the other projects not listed on the page.)

Whatever you want to add or not add is fine with me, and I'm in no hurry whatsoever.... I'm mainly just trying to respond to the template stuff that appeared, as well as I can identify/support what y'all need. Mediamation (talk) 04:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Mediamation those are great sources. Let me see what I can pull from them. --FeldBum (talk) 16:43, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Take a look at my edits before I close this and let me know your thoughts FeldBum (talk) 15:18, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

References