Talk:Al-Ma'arri

Spelling of Resalatu Alghufran.

The wiki page Bangsian_Fantasy has the spelling of Resalatu Alghufran as either Risalatu'l Ghufran or Resalatu Alghufran but not Resalt Alghufran as it is in the last sentence of the third paragraph of the main article i.e. we have has it as , or even inspired, by Abul-'Ala's Resalt Alghufran. I'm an English speaker only - please confirm that I can change the spelling of this translated book title to the most commonly used form which seems to be is, Resalatu Alghufran. Ttiotsw 06:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I've corrected it, though still unhappy with the reference to Dante I guess it can stay to be internally consistent with the other Wikipages.Ttiotsw 09:14, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Date of birth

How do you guys know the exact date of his birth?

--Ferhengvan 18:21, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Atheism

I've read his work extensively and have found no evidence of any out-right atheism. He does attack religion, especially Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, but never denies the existence of a deity. I have therefore changed "atheism" to "apparent lack of belief in revealed religions". Also, I changed "extremely rare" to "rare", because there are other famous figures in that period who were atheist or non-religious, such as Al-Razi and Ibn Al-Rawandi.

This is ridiculous. Please remove atheism quote. There is not a single shred of evidence that he was atheist and not a muslim. Attacks on practised religion are very common in islamic poetry throughout ages. 86.143.145.37 21:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me IP. the opposite of atheism is not Islam. He could just be a deist. There is plenty of evidence that he despised Islam, so how could he possibly be a Muslim? Im not afraid (talk) 00:27, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

"Excuse me IP. the opposite of atheism is not Islam. He could just be a deist. There is plenty of evidence that he despised Islam, so how could he possibly be a Muslim? Im not afraid (talk) 00:27, 18 May 2016 (UTC)"

Some of his book state himself as a muslim and defended islam

Actuallu one of his book make funny of non muslims! 46.248.206.183 (talk) 14:34, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Removal of Quotes.

A low volume IP editor http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=194.126.31.20 removed the quotes back in 30th October. http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Al-Ma%27arri&diff=84610226&oldid=84392005 They have done this elsewhere (e.g. http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Adam_and_Eve&diff=prev&oldid=81615103 and it was reverted). I thus call it vandalism unless comeone can tell me why it can't stay.Ttiotsw 12:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

References

I've removed the reference

William Montgomery Watt, Pierre Cachia, A History of Islamic Spain, page 183. Edinburgh University Press

relating to influence on Dante. That cited reference in fact says there are "superficial similarities" and that a direct link is "entirely conjectural" and "receives little credence", which doesn't support the statement in the article. Even Palacios doesn't claim a direct link, as far as I know. -- Radagast3 (talk) 07:45, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I've now replaced the sentence in the article about the link to Dante by one that's supported by the book in question. -- Radagast3 (talk) 11:10, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

I suggest moving this talk page to Talk:Al-Ma'arri, to match the name of the accompanying article (at present page-watching doesn't work properly). However, this seems to be hard to do with standard templates. -- Radagast3 (talk) 13:57, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm tempted to change the spelling in the lead to Al-Maʿarri (the claim of Al-Maarri to represent normal English usage seems weak, and the article-title has already been decided that way), but I hesitate because Dbachmann is clearly being careful and may have some reason for not doing it. But I can't figure out the reason: are font-fail rectangles permitted to appear in article titles but not leads? Wareh (talk) 13:04, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

New External Link: Rebel Poet (podcast)

{{Requested edit}}

I'm suggesting that this podcast (and the accompanying web page) about Al-Ma'arri are added to External Links:

http://theveganoption.org/2012/03/06/benjamin-zephaniah-al-ma%ca%bfarri/

The page has relevant background information, and the podcast itself is a biography of Al-Ma'arri. My conflict of interest is that I produced and co-hosted that podcast. I've made other edits to this page that aren't impacted by my conflict of interest, such adding a reading of Al-Ma'arri's work in Arabic that I recorded for the show.

The suggested new external link is entirely about the topic, but focusses more on one aspect (Al-Ma'arri's veganism); is not yet a reliable source; and has questionable NPOV-ness (Al-Ma'arri is admired, but this is true of most secondary sources; veganism is admired, but this is irrelevant).

In those respects, I think it's comparable to the two existing external links (Britannica is reliable and comprehensive but now offers less information than Wikipedia; the poetry site is about one aspect of him, is admiring, but is not reliable.)

Anyway, here's the suggested external link:

• Ian McDonald and Diana Fleischman with guest Benjamin Zephaniah (2012-03-06). "Rebel Poet" (Podcast). The Vegan Option. Retrieved 2012-06-25.

Looks good. Done! Thanks for using the request edit template. Woz2 (talk) 01:31, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Region: Western philosophy?

At the current state, the infobox states "Region: Western philosophy". Did he have anything to do with western philosophy? If so, is that a region? I'm not what the original writer meant (perhaps a geographical region he was from or lived in?), but I'm quite sure the current text is not it. (Sorry I'm not editing it myself - I don't feel knowledgeable enough to do so, but I do hope someone will fix it.) 188.169.229.30 (talk) 17:49, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Animal rights?

As far as I know, Al-Maarri was indeed what we would today call 'vegan' (i.e. did not eat meat, fish, dairy, eggs or honey), but this was not so much out of concern for animal rights as much as it was part of his general ascetic lifestyle and world view. However, this understanding is relying on what might be considered secondary sources (the relevant EI2 article by Pieter Smoor, for example) rather than things like contemporary Arabic biographies, which I have not yet researched properly. Are there any sources that can be cited about him actually arguing for animal rights? 109.67.232.32 (talk) 11:08, 4 February 2013 (UTC) Yael

Statue

His statue, at Ma`arrat an-N`uman, Syria was destroyed on february the 11th 2013, by the muslim rebellion against the Syrian government of Assad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frasyrien (talk • contribs) 21:24, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Al-Maʿarri/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cerebellum (talk · contribs) 12:19, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Hello! I will be reviewing this article. --Cerebellum (talk) 12:19, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   Article is well-written, and the lead is comprehensive.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   What makes the blog The Abolitionist Approach a reliable source? If it's not reliable, please remove it.
   I'm also concerned about this source. There's no page number given, and when I search for "Adim", one of the historians the source is supposed to be discussing, I don't get any results. It might be in there under a different spelling - do you know the page number? If not, is there any source that has the same information?

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Some claims in the article need citations. They are Still, Al-Maʿarri is sometimes referred to as one of the greatest classical Arab poets. and His monotheism may have contributed to his popularity as people supposed him to be more orthodox than he really was. and It may have also been possible that Al-Maʿarri was expelled from Baghdad for being controversial. The claim in the fourth paragraph of "Life" that "he was a controversial figure" should also be backed up; I didn't find it in the EB article, but I didn't listen to the BBC recording so it may have been there.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Good article, and very interesting. If you can resolve the issues above I'll be happy to promote it, until then I'm placing it on hold. --Cerebellum (talk) 01:12, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Hello Cerebellum. I have removed The Abolitionist Approach as a source as it was not necessary. I have also removed this source and replaced it with this one as it contained the information necessary to verify many of the claims in question. The claim Still, Al-Maʿarri is sometimes referred to as one of the greatest classical Arab poets. can be verified in the citation that follows it, specifically "Renowned as one of the greatest poets of classical Arabic literature, al Maarri’s voice has echoed across the centuries." The claim It may have also been possible that Al-Maʿarri was expelled from Baghdad for being controversial. has now been cited. The claim about him being a controversial figure is now backed up by the same source that says he may have been kicked out of Baghdad for being too controversial. The claim His monotheism may have contributed to his popularity as people supposed him to be more orthodox than he really was. can be found in the BBC recording and I am not sure if providing the exact time it was said is necessary.

In addition, I have added some minor information after doing more research, however, the information is not enough for you to do another complete review. Thank you for the review. Cusku'i (talk) 04:12, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Cusku'i Thank you for the quick response, and thorough cooperation! Everything looks good now. This copyvio detector shows a couple of pages with similar text to this article, but they appear to have copied from Wikipedia, not the other way around, so it's not an issue. I'm happy to pass as GA.

Portrait

This portrait is the same as the one for al-Mutanabbi, except in grayscale. See al-Mutanabbi's portrait. --Al Ameer (talk) 03:58, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• I nominated it for deletion. All these generic "portraits" of Arabic persons from the Middle Ages were made in the 20th century, many centuries after their deaths, and so have no illustrative value whatsoever. --Ghirla^-трёп- 07:00, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Anti-natalist?

The claim that he was an anti-natalist seems disputable to me. The Encyclopedia Britannica article is the only source for it, and it provides no evidence at all. Seeing as he was a poet, he is open to interpretation. Like the charge of atheism, I think labeling him an anti-natalist is saying more than we know. On the other hand, he may well have thought that one ought not to have children, but does this make one an anti-natalist? The word was only coined recently and only has one professional philosopher who has explicitly made use of it, David Benatar. But Benatar operates from utilitarian principles which I doubt Al-Ma'arri would find amenable or even recognize. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hisokathorongil (talk • contribs) 01:57, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Categorized as atheist

What is the evidence he was an atheist? Ben-Yeudith (talk) 01:22, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Requested move 5 December 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved (non-admin closure) ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 13:13, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

---

Al-Maʿarri → Al-Ma'arri – Overly complicated transcription for common use as an article title (and throughout the whole article). One mention of it in the lead is fine but generalized use of it becomes excessive. He is mostly referred to in English as "al-Ma'arri". See WP:MOSAR for uses of basic transcriptions and strict translitérations of Arabic. And compare with Ma'arrat al-Nu'man. Google gives:

"Al-Ma'arri" -"Al-Maʿarri": 112,000 results

"Al-Maʿarri" -"Al-Ma'arri": 24,100 results

EDIT: Actually, the current title is neither the most common name (al-Ma'arri) nor the full transliteration ("al-Maʿarrī"), which makes it even worse.

Besides, WP:MOSAR recommends "If the name is extremely long, the first appearance of the name is suitable to provide the strict transliteration. Likewise, if a strict transliteration appears overly repetitious, it should be in place of the page title in the lead paragraph."

Abu al-ʿAlaʾ al-Maʿarri (Arabic أبو العلاء المعري Abū al-ʿAlāʾ al-Maʿarrī, full name أبو العلاء أحمد بن عبد الله بن سليمان التنوخي المعري Abū al-ʿAlāʾ Aḥmad ibn ʿAbd Allāh ibn Sulaymān al-Tanūkhī al-Maʿarrī; December 973 – May 1057) was...

Abū al-ʿAlāʾ al-Maʿarrī (Arabic: أبو العلاء المعري‎, full name أبو العلاء أحمد بن عبد الله بن سليمان التنوخي المعري‎ Abū al-ʿAlāʾ Aḥmad ibn ʿAbd Allāh ibn Sulaymān al-Tanūkhī al-Maʿarrī; December 973 – May 1057) was...

...with subsequent uses of the common form—that of the requested title—"al-Ma'arri". Recruos (talk) 07:42, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. —Al Ameer (talk) 16:09, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Him being Druze

hi I Have read that the Lebanese poet maroon abbood claimed in his book about al maarri that he concludes that it is most likely that he is druze or at least having a fatimid related belief, since it is known that most of his tribe (the tanukhids and especially in that area) adopted Druzism and their are still Druze today around maarat al Nu'man, and he claims that the ideas in his poems really resemble druze or generally fatimid believes 213.57.124.197 (talk) 09:38, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Risalat al-Gufran.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:52, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Is "Ma’arrat al-Nuʿman" the same person as Al-Ma'arri ?

One of the footnotes in this article says this:

Ma’arrat al-Nuʿman, The Luzumiyat, stanza 35.

Is "Ma’arrat al-Nuʿman" the same person as Al-Ma'arri ? Mksword (talk) 02:27, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Alleged Deism

The article says "and became a deist." and makes two citations: Lloyd Ridgeon (2003), Major World Religions: From Their Origins To The Present, Routledge: London, page 257. In which this page does not indicate that he was a deist from my reading. And The Luzumiyat, stanza 35 does not indicate anything about a god belief. This leads me to believe that the deism claim originates from the editor.

I have seen also legitimate complaints about assuming his atheism due to his criticism of Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. I think in this case it is important for us to note what he actually said and did regarding this criticisms without anachronistically applying terms and assumptions based off of our cultures and time periods.

We simply do not know if he possessed any god beliefs and should not presume to know. AevumNova (talk) 16:24, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Any interpretation of al-Ma'arri's beliefs not explicitly stated by reliable, published secondary sources should be removed per WP:PRIMARY. Revolution Saga (talk) 09:56, 11 June 2024 (UTC)