Talk:Ahir clans

Majhraut was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 26 October 2022 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Ahir clans. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Arbitrary heading

Dear Writer, i am glad to know about yadav history but not agree with the history of ghosi ahir that they belong to muslim community. so please make sure about the history then you publish in this site. thanking you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahensingha (talk • contribs) 16:51, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hindu Ghosi is a different caste.

The Hindu Ghosi are different.The Hindu Ghosi customs resemble those of the Hindu Rajputs.Meaning of the word Ghosi appears to be that any Mohammadan who became a cowman by trade was called Ghosi and that this name became then applied to any Ahir or Gwala, so that we now find the Hindu Ahir as well as his Muhammadan competitor commonly called Ghosi.

Please refer http://books.google.co.in/books?id=1QmrSwFYe60C&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=delhi+ahir&source=bl&ots=qLY593l978&sig=DluD61VozYCcBPCI0M1e7MT-kew&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gHsmUKTgOIf5rQeH4YHQBQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false mahensingha 16:51, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

The contents under "Ghosi", do not clarify that whether the Hindu or the Muslim Ghosi is being talked about. Please clarify it. mahensingha 10:23, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Mahensingha, I hope you do not mind but I've made an attempt to clean up your messages a little bit so that they are easier to read. I'll take a look at the issues that you raised. Please could you sign any future messages - just type ~~~~ at the end of your comment or click on the little pen icon that is third from the left in the blue bar that shows when you are editing this page. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 13:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken a look at the link you provide and at the article. Our article does show a link to the Hindu Ghosi one but, yes, it doesn't really make it clear that the Muslim and the Hindu are different, as you say they are. The problem I have is that your source is Denzil Ibbetson and we have often found that his work is unreliable - in fact, he said so himself on one occasion. I suspect that the source we do use - People of India Uttar Pradesh Volume XLII Part two by K S Singh page 542 to 545 - would clarify things but I cannot see it. Can you? - Sitush (talk) 13:50, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Respected Sir, even the K.S. Singh mentioned Ghoshi cowherds when talking about hindu caste Yadav(Ahir) i didnt get the whole contents of his book but the snippet i submit here..

http://books.google.co.in/books?ei=nGRlUru6KYKKrgffnIA4&id=XgduAAAAMAAJ&dq=ahir+uttar+pradesh&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=ghoshi

Regards and Thanx mahensingha 17:44, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Aharwar/ Ahirwar

Aharwar or ahirwar is a group of people of the Chamar (Lather workers) caste, who claim to be descended from Ahirs. They are however a separate castes and a dominant figure among Indian scheduled castes category. They are not the clan of Ahirs. The term however seems to be confused with the Ahar, which is an ahir Clan. I request editors to please go through th following link. Discuss if any thing else is known to anyone on this subject. Otherwise I suggest an Edit... http://books.google.co.in/books?id=p-lAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA70&dq=aharwar&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZX5-U6CcGNOdugTk54Eo&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=aharwar&f=false

Page- 6 and page-70 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahensingha (talk • contribs) 22:59, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits

A lot of changes have been made recently, and a lot of them are unacceptable. Please do not use sources such as Lethbridge, who didn't have a clue what he was writing about for much of the time. I'm also not convinced about S D S Yadava, who I have seen cited in several articles over the years - what are his credentials? - Sitush (talk) 00:12, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

IndiaIsTheBest (talk) 08:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC) Add different sections for Yaduvanshis and Nandvanshi Ahirs please...

IndiaIsTheBest (talk) 08:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC) Both are different. Yaduvanshi Ahirs are Yadavas, Cowherders and Chandravanhsi Kshtriyas. While Nandvanshi are sheep grazing castes who used the Aheer/Ahir sirnames because NandBaba(foster father of lord krishna) said them to use Ahir as their sirnames.[reply]

None of the sources use the term "clan". Rename needed

"Ahir clan" is not used by any source. Seems to be an attempt to copy the Rajput clan article. Rename is needed.116.193.159.210 (talk) 13:14, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of unreliable things on the article

Pinging senior editors like @Fowler&fowler: here, please look at the references on this page. Isn't it typical caste promotion using WP:QS references by some editors to promote vested interests. I would request you to see into it. Thanks and Best RS6784 (talk) 09:06, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Banafar

Banafar Clan Is a clan of Ahirs which was clan of Alha and Udal two ahir cheiftains of Mahoba. History - Itihasa (talk) 15:27, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia works on WP:RS and as per available good references Alha Udal were Rajputs of Banaphar clan, though as per one reference their mother could be ahir based on folklore but that doesn't make them Ahir or even the whole Banaphar Rajputs grp. There are no ahir grp except copying of clans in late period. Please do understand Wiki works on WP:RS not on personal caste centric opinions. RS6784 (talk)

And regarding ahir, It seems as per some available references ahir didn't had clan system kind of a thing. Like in one paper a writer has described how ahir community didn't knew about their clans in 1920s except vague term "yadav or yaduvanshi" as a claim. It looks unlikely that they had such a proper system. Most of the grps claiming yadav word organised themselves just 120 yrs ago, that doesn't make them clan as such. A Gope, Ahar, Ahir etc all were different grp except occupational similarity of being non-elite grps. So, in the end WP:RS, NPOV and right rationale is needed for any blatant changes. RS6784 (talk) 15:53, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No Wikipedia articles

In this page, why the clans are added with no such articles on Wikipedia. Suryaji Malusare (talk) 11:37, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This page is needed to be protected fast. Some one again edited this article Suryaji Malusare (talk) 18:24, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The sources given are reliable and academic. There's nothing wrong with the content. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:26, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There were some bad links, but those have been cleaned up. —C.Fred (talk) 18:52, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Suryaji Malusare, there is no need to mass delete the content. I think it is stable, rest you can add reference or verify some of the references with content but I think mass deleting is not the right step. Akalanka820 (talk) 04:08, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, i deleted because their clan's article is not on Wikipedia as a page. Suryaji Malusare (talk) 07:59, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Split at Majhraut (Ahir)

Editors watching this page are invited to review a recent split created at Majhraut (Ahir) and assess whether it is warranted as a separate page. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 19:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just moved that to Majhraut Ahir, since parenthetical disambiguation is unnecessary, while there is already page history of an apparently merged content fork at the base Majhraut title. – wbm1058 (talk) 11:40, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The major information about the krishnuat Clan is missing the term krishnuat denotes there descent from lord Krishna. How can anyone do like this it's such a unfair practice of hiding once history. Bihar Darpan (talk) 08:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. - Ratnahastin (talk) 08:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have created the main page for krishnaut subclan with all the possible sources and information and want it to link to this page under krishnaut topic. Bihar Darpan (talk) 14:43, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

it has been removed including Majhraut and Krishnaut both . 103.161.223.11 (talk) 08:57, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yaduvanshi ahir clan

have provided reference for yaduvanshi ahir clan, university of Chicago, London School of Economics, JN university are academic works of PhD scholars, please add it back

Yaduvanshi Ahirs

The Yaduvanshi Ahirs^[1] claim descent from the Rigvedic Yadu tribe of Krishna.^[2]^[3] Drisha herjee (talk) 02:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC) ^[4][reply]

References

^ Singh, Bhrigupati (2021). Poverty and the Quest for Life Spiritual and Material Striving in Rural India. University of Chicago Press. pp. 21, 146. ISBN 9780226194684.
^ Michelutti, Lucia (2002). Sons of Krishna: the politics of Yadav community formation in a North Indian town (PDF). p. 89.
^ Gupta, Dipankar (2021). Caste in Question. SAGE Publication. p. 58. ISBN 9788132103455. Their original caste title was Ahir. The idea of a unique Krishnavanshi kinship category which fuses traditional subdivisions Yaduvanshi, Nandavanshi and Goallavanshi into a single endogamous unit
^ P B Singh, Rana (1977). Clan Settlements in the Saran Plain (Middle Ganga Valley) A Study in Cultural Geography. Banaras univesity. p. 109.

Merge into Ahir

I think this content (since it is limited in nature) could be merged into the Ahir article. Open to discussions to come to a consensus. Qalb alasid (talk) 18:44, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The Ahir article is sufficiently big, there's no need to include more content into it. - Ratnahastin (talk) 02:21, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I think it can be merged

additonal academic scholar for usages

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Diversity_and_Change_in_Modern_India/-IQ0AQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=yaduvanshi page 223, talks about yaduvanshi, nandavanshi, goallavanshi Diversity and Change in Modern India Economic, Social and Political Approaches Anthony F. Heath (ed.), Roger Jeffery (ed.) Oxford university

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Between_History_and_Legend/fghQhiowlycC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=yadu page30 Between History and Legend Status and Power in Bundelkhand By Ravindra K. Jain · 2002 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drisha herjee (talk • contribs) 00:50, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dauwa section is based on dubious sources and unreliable as per WP:RAJ

Dauwa section is based on dubious sources and unreliable because all these sources fall under WP:RAJ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sitush/CasteSources

these edits are based on dubious sources and unreliable. "according to some scholars they descended from the illegitimate offspring of Bundela Rajput fathers by Ahir mothers. An Ahir woman kept by a Bundela was known as ‘Pardwarin’."

They cannot be used in wikipedia because they fall under WP:RAJ:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sitush/CasteSources

dubious sources which fall under unreliable category as per WP:RAJ and also no citations. This is clearly manipulating sources.

Central Provinces District Gazetteers, Volume 13, Part 1, By Central Provinces (India) · 1909 pt. II. Descriptive articles on the principal castes and tribes of the Central Provinces By Robert Vane Russell · 1916 The Nagpur Law Journal Volume 3 1920 Census of India, 1901: Central Provinces. 3 pts By India. Census Commissioner · 1902 The Madhya Pradesh Leading Cases, 1882-1956,Volume 8,By Harihar Nivas Dvivedi · 1963

I request all senior editors and admin to check the sources and remove this dubious content "according to some scholars they descended from the illegitimate offspring of Bundela Rajput fathers by Ahir mothers. An Ahir woman kept by a Bundela was known as ‘Pardwarin’." Drisha herjee (talk) 01:39, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done! Ekdalian (talk) 13:14, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thanks Drisha herjee (talk) 22:20, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Singh, Bhrigupati (2021). Poverty and the Quest for Life Spiritual and Material Striving in Rural India. University of Chicago Press. pp. 21, 146. ISBN 9780226194684.

[2] Michelutti, Lucia (2002). Sons of Krishna: the politics of Yadav community formation in a North Indian town (PDF). p. 89.

[Gupta_2021_58-3] Gupta, Dipankar (2021). Caste in Question. SAGE Publication. p. 58. ISBN 9788132103455. Their original caste title was Ahir. The idea of a unique Krishnavanshi kinship category which fuses traditional subdivisions Yaduvanshi, Nandavanshi and Goallavanshi into a single endogamous unit

[4] P B Singh, Rana (1977). Clan Settlements in the Saran Plain (Middle Ganga Valley) A Study in Cultural Geography. Banaras univesity. p. 109.

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