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Academics

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I have again removed thhe listing of (virtually?) every class available at AHS as unencyclopedic. Wikipedia is not a directory. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:25, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is still not a directory. - SummerPhD (talk) 14:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Of course Wikipedia is not a directory having the academic classes and information about them does not constitute a directory, for it is not just a list of their names redirecting you to another page and/or website. For the information to be unencyclopedic it would have to abandon the original subject (since Adairsville High School is a school it's subject is it's classes)

These are all academics available at Adairsville High School as of 15 December 2008.
(until you have proven that this information breaks any codes or laws of Wikipedia I will continue to undo your revisions) - 68.19.29.208
Listing every class available, with or without a summary of said class, is not encyclopedic. A few of the problems:
1) Articles on other schools, for instance, the University of Pennsylvania do not include similar lists (the article would, of course, be insanely long). Do any of the school articles that have reached Featured status include such listings? No.
2) Guidelines for schools recommend: "Provide a brief description of the school's curriculum. Does it follow a National Curriculum or does it set its own subjects? Focus specifically on aspects of the curriculum which are unique to the school. Is it the only school in the locality which teaches Mandarin, Latin or Greek? Does it have a culinary academy?" Note that a complete listing of classes is clearly not "a brief description" and the text does not focus on unique aspects (in fact, as it covers everything, it focuses on nothing).
3) It is unsourced. This may sound like a petty argument. Let me explain. I am not saying that your source (whatever it is, likely the school's own materials) is wrong, I am saying that the lack of coverage outside of the school indicates that the whole listing is not, in anyway, notable. There is simply too much detail.
4) The section reeks of recentism. If the currently offered classes are notable content, so are the classes offered every year in the past. None of them are included. Ask yourself: In ten years, will this class listing still appear relevant? - SummerPhD (talk) 18:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Football

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I have again removed the unsourced Football situation as a violation under WP:BLP. I will continue to do so until it is properly sourced to reliable sources or their is a resonable explanation as to why WP:BLP does not apply. - SummerPhD (talk) 14:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have once again undone the removal of supposedly unsourced information. WP:BLP does not apply since this is not a biography of a single person or group of people, rather it is a summarized history of the past two years of Adairsville High School football.(if this is not a reasonable enough explanation then please explain why, until you do so I will continue to undo your revisions) - 68.19.29.208
1) Any content may be removed for want of a source. WP:PROVEIT
2) WP:BLP specifically does apply: "applies equally to biographies of living persons and to biographical material about living persons on other pages. The burden of evidence for any edit on Wikipedia, but especially for edits about living persons, rests firmly on the shoulders of the person who adds or restores the material." "Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons — whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable — should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion, from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space." - SummerPhD (talk) 18:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SummerPhD

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Dear SummerPhD, Of course Wikipedia is not a directory having the academic classes and information about them does not constitute a directory, for it is not just a list of their names redirecting you to another page and/or website. For the information to be unencyclopedic it would have to abandon the original subject (since Adairsville High School is a school it's subject is it's classes) I respect and thank you for correcting any spelling errors or mistakes; but who are you to judge what is "encyclopedic" and what isn't, technically there is no definition of "encyclopedic" rather an understanding of sorts, thus making it inappropriate to call anything "unencyclopedic". Honestly though, in ten years do you think Wikipedia will be relevant much less even exist (it is already not aloud as a valid source), even if somehow Wikipedia exists in ten years a more resent student will have edited the page if I have not. Also please understand that it is inappropriate to edit pages about things you have never seen or places you have never been (I don't go and edit any pages about your hometown do I?).Before you go and edit the page again please remember after all of the revisions I have made I will undo anymore contributions that are inappropriate or unnecessary for Adairsville High School. These are all academics available at Adairsville High School as of 15 December 2008. Sincerely, 68.19.29.208

Please be careful not to inadvertantly remove valid discussion from this page when you add your comments.
As you have currently restored the "Academics" section, it is just a listing (though with the descriptions it is still not encyclopedic)
Who am I to judge what is or is not encyclopedic? I'm an editor, just like you. However, my opinions are informed by Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.
Encyclopedic is undefined? Like much of Wikipedia, it is softly defined. This does not, however, allow for ignoring the guidelines that we do have.
Whether or or not you believe Wikipedia will be here in 10 years is a moot point.
It is not, in any way, inappropriate for me to edit pages about things I have never seen or places I have never been. I welcome you to edit whatever articles you have sourced encyclopedic contributions to, whether they are about my hometown, employer, collegues, etc. or about topics wholly unrelated to you or me.
As there is no indication that this is getting any closer to a resolution, I am requesting a third opinion from an uninvolved editor.
SummerPhD (talk) 13:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Third opinon

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Is a listing of classes at the high school meaningfully encyclopedic? Two versions to consider:with details and without. See prior discussion, above. - SummerPhD (talk) 13:40, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What is the source? ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is listing of available classes encyclopaedic ?

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These comments are in response to your request for a 3rd opinion - I hope my thoughts are helpful.

I am uncomfortable with the idea that all class subjects should be listed. In particular, I believe a large number of high schools in the USA will provide tuition in (for example), Biology, Chemistry and Physics. A more general article on schooling in the US could list these subjects as being widely taught, but I don't think it's notable for Adairsville to list these subjects as well - it's simply showing Adairsville to be a normal US high school.

You might wish to explicitly indicate that Adairsville provides tuition in the more commonly taught subjects - perhaps even giving a few one-word examples (i.e. indication that tuition is provided in English and Math), but beyond that it begins to lose notability. Further, I would expect that Adairsville teaches (for example) Spanish to a similiar level to that of many other high schools. An article on 'Spanish tuition in US High Schools' might describe how much Spanish is often taught, but I don't see a need for the article on Adairsville to explicitly state how much Spanish is taught.

If you want to indicate that Adairsville is a normal US high school, there are more direct ways of saying so, instead of indirectly implying this by listing subjects taught and the level of advancement in each subject. If however there are subjects which Adairsville teaches which are rarely taught in other high schools (e.g. classical Sanskrit) or are perhaps unusually advanced (e.g. material rarely taught outside universities) then this might be considered notable. Pmbma (talk) 04:34, 20 December 2008 (UTC)Pmbma[reply]

In keeping with the third opinion offered, I think readding a paragraph on the more notable courses offered might be okay. In my opinion these are reasonable courses to include, as well as noting that the standard math, science, English and history subjects are covered:
  • Business Document Processing
  • Web Site Design
  • Information Technology
  • Accounting
  • Cosmetology
  • Early Childhood Education
  • Agriculture/Horticulture
  • Construction
  • Health Care
  • World Literature
  • Journalism
  • Art
  • Band
  • Chorus
  • Drama
  • Applied Problem Solving
  • Money Management
  • Analysis
  • Zoology
  • Botany
  • World Geography

Are any AP classes offered? ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A number of those classes are not at all unusual. Depending on the level taught, Information Technology, Accounting, World Literature, Journalism, Art, Band, Chorus, Drama, Money Management, Zoology, Botany, World Geography and several others are not at all unusual. Can we find a reliable source that says anything along the lines of what is being proposed? We seem to being getting close to the somewhat blurry line of WP:SYN/WP:OR on this one. - SummerPhD (talk) 16:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing the comments above, I thought some clarification of my earlier 3rd opinion might help - feel free to ignore if you wish ! I understand the point about there being a fuzzy line as to when a subject becomes notable. However, just because a subject is optional for students at a high school rather than compulsory does not in itself make it notable. If an optional subject is provided at a large propotion of US high schools then it being offered by Adairsville ceases to be notable. Large proportion is of course subjective, but 50% of schools might be a good arbitrary measure. There are articles on education in the USA dotted around Wikipedia - these might contain a link to a source useful to determine what subjects are commonly offered (either compulory or optional) by high schools. Pmbma (talk) 18:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)Pmbma[reply]

Again, I'm seeing this creeping into WP:OR. We might find a source saying that "topic X" is offered at Y% of U.S. high schools. Does that mean that a class with the same or similar name at Adairsville is the same topic? For instance: in my high school, half a year of "Home Economics" was dedicated to personal finance. My partner had similar material in "Economics". Might Adairsville be calling this "Money Management"? My lit classes were not limited to the U.S. and/or English literature. It was heavy on the Brontes, Shakespear, etc., but included Pushkin, Nobokov, etc. Was that "World Literature"? Was my year-long "Geography" class broad enough to be called "World Geography"? Who knows? Unless the source stating the percentage of U.S. schools specifically mentions Adairsville, it is synthesis, "thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article to come to the conclusion C." - SummerPhD (talk) 19:43, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There are two different issues. One is verifiability. If you have doubts about the course offerings you can certainly add a citation needed tag. As far as the second issue of notability, I think common sense and the notion of building a useful encyclopedia suggests that distinctive course offerings are reasonable to include, just as would dishes at a restaurant, or product types at a business. Some schools have lots of advanced placement classes, some have technical wood shop and shop classes, some have business classes like this one, they are all different. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:01, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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