Talk:Abu Sa'id al-Jannabi

Abu Sa'id al-Jannabi has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: February 7, 2019. (Reviewed version).

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Abu Sa'id al-Jannabi article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography: Military / Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility (assessed as Low-importance).
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Islam: Muslim history / Shi'a Islam Low‑importance

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Muslim history task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Shi'a Islam task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Bahrain Low‑importance

	Bahrain portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bahrain, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Kingdom of Bahrain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BahrainWikipedia:WikiProject BahrainTemplate:WikiProject BahrainBahrain articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Saudi Arabia Low‑importance

	Saudi Arabia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Saudi Arabia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Saudi Arabia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Saudi ArabiaWikipedia:WikiProject Saudi ArabiaTemplate:WikiProject Saudi ArabiaSaudi Arabia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Iran Low‑importance

	Iran portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Biography / Middle East / Early Muslim

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Middle Eastern military history task force
	Early Muslim military history task force (c. 600 – c. 1600)

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

A fact from Abu Sa'id al-Jannabi appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 December 2018 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the followers of Abu Sa'id al-Jannabi, the founder of the Qarmatian state in Bahrayn, believed that he would return after his death, and kept a saddled horse at the entrance of his tomb?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2018/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Abu Sa'id al-Jannabi.

Wikipedia

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Abu Sa'id al-Jannabi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:02, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Abu Sa'id al-Jannabi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: HaEr48 (talk · contribs) 00:36, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Will look at this. HaEr48 (talk) 00:36, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well written article, based on academic sources. It is well-cited, and when I spot checked a few facts, it seems to check out. Its coverage is appropriate, written in a neutral manner, stable and has an appropriate image (a map). No copyvio issue found. I have some suggestions below:

Suggestion for the lead section, please include:
- a brief description of his state's governance
  - Done.
- the fact that the state he founded (probably his most important legacy) lasted for almost two centuries
  - Good point, done
He was himself proselytized and taught by the missionary (dā'ī) Abu Muhammad Abdan: Do we know what faith he had before being proselytized to Ismailism? Or how old he was when he married or when he converted?
- - Unknown; he likely was a Shi'a of some sort, as Kufa was a hotbed of sectarianism. However nothing specific is known, esp. given the fact that specific sectarian labels or doctrines were very fluid at the time.
Also, same sentence: not sure what "himself" is opposed to here.
- Leftover from an early draft. Removed.
Is it possible to briefly describe the background (e.g. the political situation) of the era? It's kind of implied that the region was mostly loyal to the Abbasids before Abu Sa'id's rise, it would be better if this is explained, in my opinion. Just a brief description, no need for a long history.
- - Done.
    - Thank you, I think this suffices for GA status, but if you have time/sources I suggest also including the position of Ismailism at the time. HaEr48 (talk) 04:34, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Similarly for "in Basra itself". The "itself" seems redundant. There is a few other redundant "itself" throughout the article.
- Fixed.
another dā'ī, Abu Zakariya al-Tamami: just to clarify, is he another Ismaili da'i? And was the Banu Kilab tribe converted to that faith? Seems a bit weird that they fight each other if they had the same mission
- Da'i in this time always means an Isma'ili, but clarified to be sure. On the final comment, you probably don't have much experience with politics, then, especially of the radical/revolutionary fringe kind ;). It is also explained later that Abu Zakariya remained loyal to Abdallah, the Fatimid founder.
of the Kilab: of the Banu Kilab?
- "Banu" is simply the word designating a tribe. "the Kilab/the Banu Kilab" effectively means the same.
Is it possible to describe how he gained power to imprison Abu Zakariya and raise an army to attack towns? Is it because of support from Banu Sanbar?
- Added some context on the Bedouin.
except for the regional capital Hadjar: Presumably this is still controlled by the Abbasids. Please add this information for clarification
- Done.
Should we use Hajar, instead of Hadjar? I feel "J" is a more common transcription for ج than "Dj" (EoI is an outlier in this regard), for example you use "Jannabi" rather than Djannabi.
- Good point. I used "Hadjar" because the link already existed.
wikilink al-Ahsa when it first appears in article body? Probably we can also mention its modern day name.
- Linked; usually I include the modern name if it is very different, but here I feel I shouldn't; then I'd also have to include the modern name of Hajar, and explain why they are the same, etc..
two ṣaqlabī eunuch slaves: Maybe add (Slavic) in parantheses to clarify what saqlabi means?
- I am not sure whether in this case it really designates Slavs or uses saqlabi in the generic sense of "White/European slaves" as opposed to blacks.
Do we know the motivation behind his killing and those of the high ranking officers?
- Added Halm's suggestion, that is the best I could find; the sources pass this in silence, and Halm's wording makes clear that no-one really knows why they were killed.
Is it possible to scale up the names (texts) in the map? Right now they are very small and not easy to read unless you zoom or squint. But of course, only if you could do this easily. Otherwise the map is quite useful.
- Even if we scaled it up it would not suffice to read it in a thumbnail; unfortunately you have to open the map at full resolution to use it.
Hamddan ibn Sanbar: Is the double 'd' a typo? Seems like an unusual name
- a typo indeed. Fixed.

The name 'Abdallah' is mostly written as "Abdallah", so how about make it consistent in " Abu Abd Allah Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Rizam al-Ta'i" ?

- Good point. Fixed.

--HaEr48 (talk) 06:44, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi HaEr48, I'm done with my reworking of the article. I've tried to incorporate your suggestions as far as possible, and added a few details/insights from Halm. Please have a look. PS, thanks for your patience. Constantine ✍ 12:39, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Cplakidas: thanks for the update, and thank you for your work in general for this article. I'm ready to pass this as GA now. Good work! HaEr48 (talk) 04:34, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]