Talk:AC Cesena

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/Archive 1

Requested move 6 September 2018

This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 12 October 2018. The result of the move review was overturn and resolve anew.

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Just figure out exactly what administrative actions you want done and ask an administrator to do them. Leave out all this club status explanation and frame it in a simple move X to Y and undelete/delete Z manner. To undelete a page file a request at WP:REFUND, to move a page uncontroversially file a request on WP:RM/TR. (non-admin closure) — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 09:47, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena → A.C. Cesena – Reverting the "technical" move by Angelo.romano on 2 September 2018 and undeletion of the original content of A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena which were deleted under G6 (which is not under proper procedures Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Moving procedures). Deletion of the old content of A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena (known as Romagna Centro which played in 2017–18 Serie D) should under prod / AFD.

Merging A.C. Cesena (dissolved) and A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena (rebrand as RC Cesena since 2018 under new owner) should separately discussed, as the new owner did not acquired the assets and brand of A.C. Cesena, nor claiming article 52 of N.O.I.F. which FIGC granting the official "sports title" status. It is not exactly the same situation, but AFC Wimbledon and Wimbledon F.C. were under two article titles, plus Milton Keynes Dons F.C. which renounced the history as Wimbledon F.C. Matthew_hk t c 06:31, 6 September 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 22:31, 17 September 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 21:13, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 08:12, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - nominator needs to explain in clear English exactly what they want and why. It would also be helpful if @Angelo.romano: could comment on their move from a few days ago. Giant Snowman 08:16, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena (before 2018 was known as Romagna Centro), is another club, differ from A.C. Cesena.

It is common that Italian football club refounded right after the previous one went bankrupted. In some case they have direct lineage granted by FIGC (using article 52 sub-clauses), and/or acquiring the assets of the old club from the liquidator. But in the case of A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena and A.C. Cesena it is neither. It simply a loose succession of major football club in the city that was reported by the media. So, such merge should be discussed, as well as such G6 the old content that under article title A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena should be revert and carry an actual prod/afd/merge process. Matthew_hk t c 08:25, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If they are 2 separate clubs then the page needs to be moved back and the history untangled. Giant Snowman 08:55, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, the direct lineage is not always legally guaranteed, and there's many examples of many other teams around to establish that. Messina is the first one that comes to my mind (the original Messina has not been existing for decades; another local club originally named Peloro renamed itself Messina and then reached Serie A back in the days, in fact). Italian football clubs go bankrupt quite often if compared to other European countries, in fact: from this year's Serie A, Napoli, Parma, Torino, SPAL, Fiorentina and Frosinone have all gone bankrupt at least once in their history, actually. In this specific case, article 52 could not be applied due to the very existence of another Cesena-based team in Serie D, which thus renamed itself Cesena; a merger with the original Cesena was not feasible due to the latter's debts, hence why the current situation. This is also clearly stated in the Italian Wikipedia. By the way, the new Cesena already bought the old logo from the original club, in fact, which already builds a connection between the original club and the new one: [1] --Angelo (talk) 16:43, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The RC Cesena or Romagna Centro was (borderline) GNG notable before 2018. It is less complex to leave it as two articles, which in different situation, there are Wimbledon F.C. and AFC Wimbledon. Unlike Vicenza that made a quick acquiring of assets and clear branding link to the defunct L.R. Vicenza which would be fine to put it on one article. The media coverage of RC Cesena / Cesena F.C. was about they fails to become a legitimate successor on waiting liquidator of AC Cesena, failing to applies art.52, etc. As well as FIGC claiming the trophy of those team without new owner of the sports title, are stored in FIGC.

Even so new Cesena had start connection to the old Cesena, it still should leaving two articles which A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena cover RC Cesena and A.C. Cesena, and leave the pre-2018 content of Romagna Centro in some WP:article title such as A.S.D. Romagna Centro, and then discussed whatever merge by turning to redirect or not (thus preserving page history). It is not a proper way to merge article with speedy G6. Matthew_hk t c 09:12, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - what I'm getting out of the discussion is this (and please correct me if I'm wrong): the page we are looking at now should be named "A.C. Cesena" and contain the history of the club up through going bankrupt. Then, a new article should be created, containing the history of the reformed club and named either "A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena" or "RC Cesena". If this is the case, then I would Support the move – assuming an editor is then willing to create the new article and remove all information about the new club from this page. 21.colinthompson (talk) 17:37, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There was an article already existed in article title A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena for the team "Romagna Centro" (which was moved by me from A.S.D. Romagna Centro in July?) but was deleted to G6 make way for move on 2 September 2018 by someone else. The content of that article may be badly source and mainly contain just short paragraph and infobox only, but at least it is not non-notable and routine content enough to qualify for WP:speedy.

For where to put the new content of the re-branded "Romagna Centro", or known as Cesena F.C. (or known as R.C. Cesena ) it is worth to discuss. Not sure it was licensed to do so or not, they already designed a new Cesena F.C. logo with a iconic seahorse from A.C. Cesena on it. But the rest of the official site still retained the old "Romagna Centro" logo and wording, so by legal they are definitely two entities, but it worth to discuss on how to reporting this succession. Certainly, Romagna Centro, a Serie D club in 2017-18 season, need more sourcing and content to establish an article's WP:GNG.

While the club history section of the official site was still about the original "Romagna Centro" not A.C. Cesena. Matthew_hk t c 00:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Desynced talk page

So, the talk page was for the team A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena or A.S.D. Romagna Centro. When the bold move in September , it only deleted A.C. Cesena by G6 but not the talk page located in Talk:A.C. Cesena. Matthew_hk t c 10:13, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I swapped the talk pages and they should now match up. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 10:30, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I moved the messages to Talk:A.C. Cesena/Archive 1 instead as they were entirely the old talk page for A.C. Cesena. Matthew_hk t c 10:54, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A.C. Cesena -> Cesena F.C.

Hi all, due to the recent developments involving the football scene in Cesena, I would recommend proceeding with the following two operations in order to clean up things accordingly.

Move A.C. Cesena (this page) to Cesena F.C. and update it with the content related to the last season and the current one.
Move Cesena F.C. back to A.S.D. Romagna Calcio, with historical content about the club when it was still named as such (see Special:Permalink/567786593), and mentioning about the fact it is currently a youth team-only club.

This is justified by the following:

"Cesena" as such is recognized to be Cesena F.C. (denomination was changed this year), and there is general consensus with the fanbase about the fact it is a heir of the original AC Cesena. The club itself plays at the Dino Manuzzi Stadium (the main stadium in town) and was even allowed to use the old logo for the second half of the previous season (as it was allowed by a judge as they were still making plans to hand out its rights on a specific auction).
"Romagna Calcio" is currently existing as a youth team only, as mentioned before.

Thanks, Angelo (talk) 19:44, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It’s time to accomplish Angelo’s request.--Footy Tea (talk) 22:54, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is not the same club even the club itself say so. The is no consensus in the discussions and wikipedia does not count by vote. Matthew hk (talk) 10:43, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:A.C. Milan which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:04, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]