Talk:2022 Ottawa municipal election

Endorsement list question on format

I noticed that endorsement tables were made, and that they included every candidate in a given ward. I followed that same format and did some tables for other wards, except I thought about something that I thought I should ask here first. Should it be the standard that an endorsement table should only have candidates that have endorsements, rather than having a bunch of blanks from the minor candidates, and should we only add a candidate to one if they get a major endorsement? It would save on space on the page. CJJ400 (talk) 14:13, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

I'd prefer all of the endorsements were moved to their own section. Each ward section is going to look awfully crowded and repetitive once the results are added in.-- Earl Andrew - talk 14:45, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

I concur. I had initially just added them to a few just to try and remove clutter, but if the consensus is moving them all to their own section, then I see no reason not to. Fulserish (talk) 18:31, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

I moved them to their own section! I'm liking how it looks, anyone can add a ward and table, or expand upon a table with another candidate once they get endorsed. Though something else crossed my mind...

Should we get rid of the Nominated candidates titles under each ward? As it's now obvious that all these candidates are nominated?

Furthermore, the 2018 election page only has a statement that an incumbent is/isn't under it's ward title when an incumbent *isn't* running, yet on our page we have "they will run for re-election" lines and also their previous vote percentage. As the first matter is evident by just looking at the candidate list, and the second is evident as we will use a results template that includes a "swing" of their percentage, will we need to have either of these lines for candidates who are running again? I would keep them for people who are not running again though, as their vote share and announcement would explain them not being on the ballot. CJJ400 (talk) 02:54, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

"Jreg" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Jreg and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 31#Jreg until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 23:41, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2022

In Zone 6 of the OCDSB in sections of endorsements the following changes: endorsed by RSU https://www.rideaustudentsunion.ca/news-events/the-rsu-endorses-keith-de-silvia-legault

Also, Laura Shantz city councilor candidate for Ward 12 is endorsed by Zone 6 School Trustee Candidate Keith de Silvia-Legault https://twitter.com/keithottawa/status/1560280599205756928 Keithdsl (talk) 04:53, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: per WP:POLEND, only independently sourced endorsements from notable people should be included. Madeline (part of me) 14:38, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Endorsements from non-notable people

There have been a bunch of endorsements added recently from people who do not have biographical articles in Wikipedia (ie non-notable people). As per Wikipedia:Political endorsements these are going to all need to be removed. Lists of endorsements should only include endorsements by notable people. Also please note Lists of endorsements should only include endorsements which have been covered by reliable independent sources. This means endorsements should not be sourced solely to a Tweet or Instagram post, for example.- Ahunt (talk) 18:51, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Okay, this has been  Fixed. Please don't add any more endorsements by non-notable people or organizations. - Ahunt (talk) 01:07, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Under mayoral endorsements, there is a section for endorsements from city council candidates. I noticed that the endorsement of Catherine McKenney by Ariel Troster was removed as an endorsement by a non-notable person. Does this mean that only endorsements by city council candidates that are already notable are permitted? If so, does this present a neutrality concern? OttawaPoliticsGuy (talk) 13:25, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

We have no biography article on Ariel Troster, so she is non-notable as per Wikipedia:Political endorsements. It would be the same as if you or I endorsed a mayoralty candidate. Our friends might be interested, but it wouldn't be reported in Wikipedia. I don't think Wikipedia:Political endorsements presents any neutrality concerns, in fact it prevents random endorsements from random people, which could be a serious bias issue if we went that route, as editors piled on endorsements from non-notable people. If you think Ariel Troster is notable at this point in time, then feel free to write a bio article. Of course if she gets elected she will get an article at that point. - Ahunt (talk) 14:14, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Hmmm, this begs the question about what do we do about endorsements from candidates who end up getting elected? Do we just add them in after election day? I say this because Troster will almost certainly win her race, but she won't achieve notability until she does. So do we just add her endorsement in after the fact, I guess? Personally, I'd prefer her endorsement be included, but I can understand it that's contentious. -- Earl Andrew - talk 15:19, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

That is a good question! I would say that we take notability from the date of the endorsement, but as you say that could be debatable. I think a bigger question is why we include endorsements at all. I am not convinced they are encyclopedic content in the first place. - Ahunt (talk) 15:31, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll have to disagree with you on that, they are immensely important in non-partisan municipal elections, as voters look to see who their preferred politicians support. More often than not whoever the incumbent endorses wins (which is why I think Troster is a slam dunk on election). -- Earl Andrew - talk 17:20, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Maybe I did a poor job explaining my point. I'm new to this, but it seems to me that if only candidates who are notable (by Wikipedia standards) have their endorsements included, that seems to favour one candidate over another (by providing a platform for their viewpoint, but denying the same to others). That's what I meant by a neutrality issue. I suppose it could be bypassed by not including council candidate's endorsements at all. OttawaPoliticsGuy (talk) 17:17, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

The Wikipedia:Political endorsements page states that "Whether or not it is necessary for the person to also have a Wikipedia article can be determined at the article level". Same too for organizations.

As this is a municipal election, many of the people and organizations that were originally listed as endorsements may not be notable across Canada, but are notable enough at a local level to where having their endorsement listed is beneficial of documenting the election and its events. Furthermore, also as this is a municipal election, candidates don't have the most advanced messaging system and usually rely on social media, like Twitter and Facebook for their announcements and campaigning, so a tweet is the best primary source for this information. For a much larger campaign like a national or provincial one, I understand the need for a thorough endorsement section, but properly documenting the endorsements of candidates tweets from their verified and trustworthy accounts is the best best currently (until these candidates list endorsements on their website, if they do even).

Any former or current public official, or person who is locally well-known, or is a current candidate running, is notable enough to accurately convey the backing of support for certain candidates in this election.

I would also like to point out that including non-wikipedia page but still notable people has been a standard across a few elections (both partisan and Non-partisan) already in Canada, including the 2018 Toronto mayoral election, 2018 Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario leadership election, 2015 Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario leadership election, and 2017 United Conservative Party leadership election because they all still had a local importance. CJJ400 (talk) 18:00, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

I would advise to bring those endorsements back on the basis that they are locally important and at this "article level", are notable to add CJJ400 (talk) 18:00, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

The last thing I think needs mentionning is that Horizon Ottawa is one of the only third party advertisers this election, which makes them have a notability to add them to this page https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/elections/2022-municipal-elections/certified-and-acclaimed-candidates-and-registered-third-party-advertisers# here's a link that shows all the third party advertisers,

I would expect if any third party that has to register with the city have a notability to be added here in case of endorsements, not just Horizon Ottawa CJJ400 (talk) 18:06, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Has Horizon Ottawa been covered enough in third party sources to have an article on the organization? Because then that would make it easy! - Ahunt (talk) 18:10, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

criticism from the LGBTQ2S+ community

Folks, 2 candidates on this list are currently tagged with

> has received criticism from the LGBTQ2S+ community for opposition of gender affirming medical care.[95]

Every other candidate has a brief bio, or nothing. This information is presumably true, but it's prejudicial to insert criticism for these 2 candidates while describing everyone else in only neutral terms.

I don't have permission to edit the page as it's protected. Could someone else do it? Thanks.

Ottawauser111 (talk) 00:25, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I disagree, I think their criticism is notable, as it has been picked up by the media. We can better balance the article by adding criticisms of other candidates as well, if there are reliable sources indicating there are notable criticisms.-- Earl Andrew - talk 13:26, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2022 - request to remove passage

The passage in this article regarding Chanel Pfahl: "has received criticism from the LGBTQS+ community for opposition of gender affirming medical care" referencing footnote 95.

THIS SHOULD BE REMOVED BECAUSE IT'S BIASED, IRRELVANT IN ITS PLACEMENT IN THE WIKI PAGE, AND I DONT SEE THE OTHER TWO NOMINATED CANDIDATES THAT ARE LISTED WITH A CAVET ABOUT A SPECIFIC PLATFORM ITEM (I'M ASSUMING THE AUTHOR WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THIS FOR A REASON OTHER THAN THE DESMINATION OF KNOWLEDGE.)

This is why I don't donate anymore. So much for the democracy of knowledge. If Wikipedia has a political leaning just be honest about it, that's really all I ask, or stop letting these woke wannabe journalists and authors obscure and influence knowledge seekers by using your platform to lend credence to what is an implied opinion. This is an issue across your platform.

Thanks. 165.1.253.247 (talk) 20:27, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

It was reported by the media, so it's pertinent information. If you want to add criticisms of other candidates reported in the media, please feel free to list them here, and we'll put them in for you. -- Earl Andrew - talk 20:34, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

@165.1.253.247 Wikipedia doesn't have a political leaning, but some of the editors do. See WP:BIAS Aaron Liu (talk) 01:54, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

link to Rouba Fattal's website

Hi, I was wondering if you can add the link to Dr. Roub Fattal's website (https://www.roubafattal.ca/) . She ia candidate in Kanata-South. 184.175.41.185 (talk) 01:56, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Endorsement Question

Hi all

As some of you might be aware Catherine McKenney just released their list of people who donated over $100 dollars to their campaign. People already mentioned on here (Shawn Menard, Joel Harden etc.) were on the list however Jeff Leiper was on the list as well. Just wondering if this can be seen as an official endorsement or whether or not we should wait for a written statement.

I'll link the list below if people want to confirm.

[1] Metro man 27 (talk) 23:15, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Political endorsements is pretty clear on this: For a political endorsement to be included on a list of endorsements; the endorser must have an article or be unquestionably entitled to one and coverage of the endorsement in a reliable source must use the word "endorse", or a closely related synonym. Endorsements by individuals must be referenced to one or more sources that are both reliable and independent of the endorser. Making a donation or canvassing with someone is NOT an endorsement. It has to be an actual stated, endorsement and covered in third party reliable sources. - Ahunt (talk) 12:48, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

We could probably have a separate section covering donations, since I think it's notable that McKenney has released their donor information, and the other candidates have not. -- Earl Andrew - talk 13:09, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

I would think a list of donors would be WP:TRIVIA, unless it is covered in third party WP:RS. - Ahunt (talk) 13:52, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

McKenney releasing their donors has been covered by reliable sources.-- Earl Andrew - talk 22:00, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Well then, as noted, it can be covered on that basis. - Ahunt (talk) 22:56, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Alright

Thanks for the information! Metro man 27 (talk) 15:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Results by ward

Just wondering if it is necessary to have boxes for results by urban, suburban and rural being included when this has never been included before on past municipal election pages. Would just having results by each ward be enough or do we want to highlight the 3 different components of the city?

Metro man 27 (talk) 03:28, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

I would say that it's equivalent to "regional results" in federal or provincial elections. The three different areas of Ottawa are all distinct, so having regional results would shed insights on the breakdown of the results once election day arrives. CJJ400 (talk) 14:45, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Any WP:RS that breaks them down this way or is this analysis WP:OR? - Ahunt (talk) 14:48, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents/files/option6report_en.pdf page 3 and 4. They break down ward areas by urban, within the greenbelt, suburban, outside the greenbelt, and rural, which is not in the urban boundary. CJJ400 (talk) 15:01, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. - Ahunt (talk) 15:03, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

This was my initial intention when adding the boxes. Even if it's non-conventional based on past municipal election pages, it could very well just be because nobody has bothered to create any information or analyze it and transcribe it to Wikipedia. Plus, this election year's Wikipedia page has arguably become the most information-heavy page for any Ottawa municipal election ever, so more in-depth detailed information of the results isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fulserish (talk) 19:24, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Alright cool, Yeah I have no problem with it (in fact I think it will be interesting data to look at) just wanted to check because this has never been done before. Metro man 27 (talk) 20:32, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Jreg Guevara.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:36, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Page protection

I'm afraid this page will get vandalised a lot in the future. Jreg has a rather large following on youtube, and yesterday, he posted a satire video claiming he actually won the election. Some of his subscribers seem to find it humorous to edit the page accordingly, I already undid a "revision".

Judging from this Talk page, it seems like the article used to be semi-protected, but unregistered users are able to edit right now, so I guess the protection has been revoked for some reason? I think it would be sensible to reinstate it (or even upgrade it to full protection) since all the relevant information on last month's election is probably already included in the article, so a huge share of future editing attempts are likely to be vandalism. However, I don't know all that much about Wikipedia's usual conventions regarding article protection, so I might be wrong.

2003:E5:5F1B:878F:D84E:A6E2:B8A2:A75B (talk) 22:16, 14 November 2022 (UTC)