Talk:2017 Venezuelan referendum

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Elections and Referendums

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Venezuela Mid‑importance

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Contradiction

@ZiaLater: Thanks for creating this article, but it seems to be inherently contradictory. In the introduction it states that The referendum is an act of civil disobedience, in the context of the application of Articles 333 and 350 of the Venezuelan constitution , in which the National Electoral Council and the Tribunal are not recognized. but then it also states that The National Assembly unanimously approved the plebiscite on 5 July 2017 based on Articles 5, 70 and 71 of the constitution. Is it constitutional or not? Cheers, Number 5 7 20:42, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57: Sorry it's a translation of the Spanish article. Sorry about that.--ZiaLater (talk) 22:41, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ZiaLater: Do you think you could possibly remove the contradictory claims until they can be sorted out? Cheers, Number 5 7 23:12, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57: To understand the reason why it's considered as an act of civil disobedience and if it is constitutional or not we must remember Venezuela is undergoing a constitutional crisis. The consultation is considered as civil disobedience because it's the first "electoral" process made without the National Electoral Council and, to start with, the government considers the National Assembly's decisions as unconstitutional. In other words, government supporters consider that consultation does not have a binding effect, while the opposition does. I want to explain this further in the Spanish article, specifically in the Legality section; I'll try to do it tomorrow. --Jamez42 (talk) 04:27, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Consultation

@Number 57: Hi! There has been a lot of confusion of the definitions regarding the process, if it is a referendum, plebiscite or consultation. The reason it is a popular consultation is because it isn't an official electoral process, since this must be carried out by the Consejo Nacional Electoral and is based on article 70 of the constitution as an expression of popular will. Is it possible to change back the title accordingly while maintaining the title convention? --Jamez42 (talk) 01:54, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Have to agree with Jamez42.--ZiaLater (talk) 07:50, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am also agree. --Panam2014 (talk) 09:27, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:NC-GAL#Elections and referendums, the name must be of the format "Venezuelan XXX referendum, 2017"; as there is no definite subject, I left out the XXX. I can't really see any alternative name that meets the naming format. Regardless of whether it's official or not, it's still a referendum and is being called that in the international media (see e.g. Venezuela referendum: Big show of support for opposition (BBC), Venezuelans reject constitutional rewrite in non-binding referendum (CNN), Maduro foes: Over 7 million vote in Venezuelan referendum (Washington Post). Cheers, Number 5 7 11:31, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps also worth pointing out that we have numerous other articles on unofficial referendums at similar titles (just for starters, these ten: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10). Number 5 7 11:49, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57: From what I see it seems the term referendum has a broader use abroad than in Venezuela; I still think it's important to make the clarification, but it can be easily specified in a section of the article. --Jamez42 (talk) 17:51, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's already clear in the first three words :) Number 5 7 18:44, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57: Not the title, the different definitions that have been used both by government supporters and opposition in the content of the article; due to the reasons above I think the current title should do. Cheers. --Jamez42 (talk) 19:16, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Catia plebiscito nacional de Venezuela de 2017.webm

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