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:Next time I do something stupid, I'm going to remember this. Sounds better than blaming it on drink. [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 00:18, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
:Next time I do something stupid, I'm going to remember this. Sounds better than blaming it on drink. [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 00:18, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
::And you can use the Neelix method of saying it's all getting a bit too much for you to escape any sanctions. Oh wait, that only works if you're an admin... '''[[User:Lugnuts|<font color="002bb8">Lugnuts</font>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Lugnuts|Dick Laurent is dead]]</sup> 10:25, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
::And you can use the Neelix method of saying it's all getting a bit too much for you to escape any sanctions. Oh wait, that only works if you're an admin... '''[[User:Lugnuts|<font color="002bb8">Lugnuts</font>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Lugnuts|Dick Laurent is dead]]</sup> 10:25, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

*Thank you, {{U|Nakon}}, for your gracious apology. I've ordered the unmanned killer drones back to base. <small>''(Note: NOT AN ACTUAL DEATH THREAT. DO NOT BLOCK.)''</small> However, I must ask that you also add a retracting postscript to your comments at [[WP:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Hello]]. I get enough grief for things I actually do, without the record implying things I didn't do. [[User:EEng|EEng]] ([[User talk:EEng|talk]]) 10:47, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


== Two edit filter RfCs ==
== Two edit filter RfCs ==

Revision as of 10:47, 10 January 2016

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      Other areas tracking old discussions

      Administrative discussions

      Place new administrative discussions above this line using a level 3 heading

      Requests for comment

      Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 444#RFC: The Telegraph on trans issues

      (Initiated 122 days ago on 3 June 2024) Initial close has been overturned at review. A new close is required. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Surely someone wants to be taken to review and shouted at, even if just for the experience. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Anyone want a closer's barnstar? (okay but seriously maybe we should just panel close this one, if only to prevent any further disputes.) --Licks-rocks (talk) 11:46, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Panel close is probably a good idea if we can get a panel together. Loki (talk) 19:35, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I doubt it will be possible to assemble a panel for something as inconsequential as this. Frankly, I don't know what should be done here. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 13:44, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia talk:Notability (species)#Proposal to adopt this guideline

      (Initiated 55 days ago on 9 August 2024)

      Wikipedia talk:Notability (species)#Proposal to adopt this guideline is WP:PROPOSAL for a new WP:SNG. The discussion currently stands at 503 comments from 78 editors or 1.8 tomats of text, so please accept the hot beverage of your choice ☕️ and settle in to read for a while. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:22, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Philippe Pétain#Rfc for Lede Image of Philippe Pétain

      (Initiated 47 days ago on 17 August 2024) Requesting immediate procedural close for Talk:Philippe Pétain#Rfc for Lede Image of Philippe Pétain, because it is blocked on a Wikipedia policy with legal implications that no one at the Rfc is qualified to comment on, namely U.S. copyright law about an image. At a minimum, it will require action at Commons about whether to delete an image, and likely they will have to consult Wikimedia legal for an interpretation in order to resolve the issue. Under current circumstances, it is a waste of editor time to leave the Rfc open, and is impossible to reliably evaluate by a closer, and therefore should be procedurally closed without assessment, the sooner the better. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 20:42, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:JD Vance#RFC: Include "couch" hoax paragraph

      (Initiated 22 days ago on 11 September 2024)

      This will require a close by an editor experienced on WP:BLP polices. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 20:42, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Place new discussions concerning RfCs above this line using a level 3 heading

      Deletion discussions

      XFD backlog
      V Jul Aug Sep Oct Total
      CfD 0 5 41 0 46
      TfD 0 1 14 0 15
      MfD 0 1 7 0 8
      FfD 0 1 2 0 3
      RfD 0 0 118 0 118
      AfD 0 0 11 0 11

      Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 August 19#Category:Wikipedia utility templates

      (Initiated 54 days ago on 10 August 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:41, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 August 24#Endings by year

      (Initiated 40 days ago on 24 August 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 18:48, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 3#Category:Prejudice and discrimination in fiction

      (Initiated 34 days ago on 30 August 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 07:08, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 20#Category:1982 Japanese television episodes

      (Initiated 29 days ago on 4 September 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 07:08, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

       Done. SilverLocust 💬 06:25, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 August 30#Category:1501 establishments in Venezuela

      (Initiated 34 days ago on 30 August 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 18:49, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 22#National shores of the United States

      (Initiated 11 days ago on 22 September 2024) There are a bunch of these on this day's log; I'll only list the one but help closing 'em all would be appreciated :) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:02, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 25#Category:Wikipedians interested in LGBT issues

      (Initiated 8 days ago on 25 September 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 00:45, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 25#Category:Elite 11 participants

      (Initiated 24 days ago on 9 September 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 00:45, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Place new discussions concerning XfDs above this line using a level 3 heading

      Other types of closing requests

      Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive 194#Notifying_Wikiprojects_and_WP:CANVASS

      (Initiated 128 days ago on 28 May 2024) Latest comment: 3 days ago, 79 comments, 37 people in discussion. Closing statement may be helpful for future discussions. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:29, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

       Doing...— Frostly (talk) 22:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Frostly Are you still planning on doing this? Soni (talk) 16:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Soni, yes - have drafted close and will post by the end of today. Thanks! — Frostly (talk) 17:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I wanted to note that this is taking slightly longer than expected, but it is at the top of my priority and will be completed soon. — Frostly (talk) 05:14, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Frostly Just checking, would you like someone else to help with this? Soni (talk) 07:31, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Frostly: also checking in. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:33, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Hi Voorts and Soni, thanks for the pings! I've unfortunately been in the hospital for the past week but am now feeling better. I apologize for the long delay in putting out the close and appreciate your messages! Best, — Frostly (talk) 03:59, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm sorry to hear that; a week-long hospitalization is not fun. But, I'm glad that you're feeling better. Best, voorts (talk/contributions) 19:06, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Ping @Frostly again (I saw you've been editing Commons). Hope your still better, and if you don't feel like doing this one anymore, just let people know. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 13:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Just a note here that Frostly has not edited in over a month. Might be best for someone else to close. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:45, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • I can't touch that cos I !voted, but although that was a productive and thought-provoking discussion, it's not a discussion that has an actionable outcome. I personally feel it can lie in the archives unclosed.—S Marshall T/C 11:36, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:2024 Nuseirat_rescue operation#Proposed_merge_of_Nuseirat_refugee_camp_massacre_into_2024_Nuseirat_rescue_operation

      (Initiated 117 days ago on 8 June 2024) Since much of the discussion centers on the title of the article rather than its content, the closer should also take into account the requested move immediately below on the talk page. Smyth (talk) 15:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      If the closer finds "no consensus", I have proposed this route in which a discussion on merger and RM can happen simultaneously to give clearer consensus.VR (Please ping on reply) 20:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Page size

      (Initiated 95 days ago on 30 June 2024) Proposal to split RS/PS. Discussion has died down. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:39, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:List of common misconceptions#Split proposal

      (Initiated 87 days ago on 8 July 2024) – Editors would feel more comfortable if an uninvolved closer provided a clear statement about whether a consensus to WP:SPLIT exists, and (if so) whether to split this list into two or three lists. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Petah_Tikva#Merge_proposal

      (Initiated 56 days ago on 8 August 2024) - This has been open and the discussion is at a standstill. While the proposer requested to keep it open, I don't think that it's proper. Another can be opened at another time, but at this point, if someone wouldn't mind closing it, I think that would be helpful to move on. Andre🚐 01:59, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk: Hurricane Isabel#Proposed merging of Effects of Hurricane Isabel in New York and New England, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania into Hurricane Isabel

      (Initiated 53 days ago on 12 August 2024) No comments on two weeks; consensus on the merge is unclear, particularly for Effects of Hurricane Isabel in Delaware. 107.122.189.12 (talk) 19:29, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 13 August 2024

      (Initiated 52 days ago on 13 August 2024) It's been more than a month. The closer must be shrewd and articulate, as the topic is highly contentious. They should also discard comments based on personal opinion rather than policy, and, of course, avoid having their own opinion influence their assessment of consensus. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:51, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Imane Khelif#Proposal to create and split off new article "2024 Olympic Boxing Controversy"

      (Initiated 48 days ago on 16 August 2024) Discussion has slowed. No comments in a few days. TarnishedPathtalk 02:12, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Climbing#Suggesting_a_change_of_WP:WikiProject_Climbing/Article_recommendations

      (Initiated 38 days ago on 26 August 2024) I'd like a closure of this discussion, which was preceded by this discussion:Talk:Cobra_Crack#MOS:ITAL Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:50, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      There's not a lot of participation here. It might benefit from going to an RfC. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 18:17, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      The Cobra Crack discussion had 8 people. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Mamie Lake (Wisconsin)#Merge Proposal

      (Initiated 27 days ago on 6 September 2024) Discussion has stopped. Not a snow close so needs the kind support of an independent closer please. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:25, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies#Requested move 6 September 2024

      (Initiated 27 days ago on 6 September 2024). Discussion has died down and last vote comment was a week ago. Raladic (talk) 22:22, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      checkY Closed by Dr vulpes. SilverLocust 💬 05:46, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond#Proposed merge of Loch Lomond (Runrig song) into The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond

      (Initiated 27 days ago on 6 September 2024) Contested proposed merge. Neutral closer required per WP:MERGECLOSE. voorts (talk/contributions) 15:22, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Attempted_assassination_of_Donald_Trump#Requested_move_15_September_2024

      (Initiated 18 days ago on 15 September 2024) Clear consensus to move, just need an experienced editor to close the discussion and perform the move. Some1 (talk) 22:47, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Skimming through the discussion, which has several opposes, this is not a "clear consensus to move". voorts (talk/contributions) 22:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Tornado outbreak sequence of April 4–7, 2022#Merge proposal

      (Initiated 18 days ago on 15 September 2024) – Closed by involved editor under unclear consensus, reopened by a likely sockpuppet account. Discussion has died down and I want an uninvolved closer to get this over and done with. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 23:56, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:2024_Lebanon_pager_explosions#Requested_move_19_September_2024

      (Initiated 14 days ago on 19 September 2024) - Discussion has kind of stabilized, with 68 people giving over 256 comments. Awesome Aasim 21:00, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Attempted_assassination_of_Donald_Trump#Requested_move_15_September_2024

      (Initiated 18 days ago on 15 September 2024) - Discussion has died down and users are wondering why it isn't closed yet. Would close myself but I have a COI. From what I can see, decision is supports with 3/5ths supporting. Zeke Zeke 18:53, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Place new discussions concerning other types of closing requests above this line using a level 3 heading

      Review of Revision Deletion

      At the request of Prodego, I'd like to seek some additional viewpoints from other administrators about a recent revision deletion. (The action can be found here.) I don't believe that the revision meets the criteria of purely disruptive material. (Allegations, harassment, grossly inappropriate threats or attacks, malicious websites, etc.) Personally, I don't think one ping is enough to be considered harassment that requires revision deletion and a simple revert and block would have been appropriate. I propose to reverse the action and would appreciate some input before doing so. Mike V • Talk 22:55, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

      • Hihacking the top here to give my reply. As I mentioned on my reply on my user talk page (linked by Mike above), in this case I felt a revision deletion was appropriate. This appears to be purely disruptive content (WP:RD3) - specifically an attempt by a user banned for harassing other editors to harass another editor. Harassment is specifically called out as an example where RD3 applies. I came to the conclusion that these edits were harassment and a threat to continue to harass based on the content of the edits, and the use of {{ping}}. I did not rev delete the other edits by this account, which didn't appear to be harassing. I understand the concern though, as I'm usually pretty stingy with revision deletions myself. I'm happy to have some third party review. Prodego talk 23:49, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      While I'm not sure I would have gone out of my way to delete these edits, I think it's fair to say they fall under the description of edits which are "of little or no relevance or merit to the project" and I can see the merit in deleting the edits of a banned user trying to get attention. Sam Walton (talk) 23:04, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      Yes, the edits have little relevance or merit to the project but that condition is dependent whether or not they're considered to be purely disruptive material. While I don't encourage banned users to get any additional attention, I don't believe that revision deleting the edits is supported by policy. I find it hard to equate highly disruptive edits (linking to malware, threatening others with harm, shock pages, etc.) with the edits linked above. Mike V • Talk 23:22, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • The criterion for RevDel are sufficiently vague that almost any disruptive edit can be shoehorned into them, so as a matter of policy I can't say these don't qualify for it, espescially when coming from a banned user. That being said, I doubt I would have bothered doing it in this case. Blanking the content and revoking talk page access is sufficient. At the end of the day (or the end of the year) it really doesn't make much difference one way or the other. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:06, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've probably done more of these deletions than anyone, and yes, any contribution by a banned editor falls under revision deletion if it can be performed without deleting any contributions by another editor. Since they could be speedily deleted under G5, the contribution can be excised under RD5. It would serve the project well if someone edited the policy to make it clear that RD3 (being "purely disruptive") isn't some kind of gating factor or overriding criterion. It's not: it's just one condition among six.—Kww(talk) 16:51, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • This is probably symptomatic of a larger issue. There is a massive disparity between what many admins think is "disruptive" enough to require a revdel. And as Beeblebrox notes, the policy is so vague that almost any vaguely vandalistic edit can be interpreted to meet the threshold. Jenks24 (talk) 05:01, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • In my view, these edits are "purely disruptive material that is of little or no relevance or merit to the project", and therefore meet the revision deletion criteria. No opinion as to whether revision deletion was the best way to address this, though.  Sandstein  20:16, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I agree that the standards of what should be rev-deleted varies quite a bit. I've looked at deletions that were called insulting and grossly offensive and just found harshly worded disagreements, definitely not obscene personal attacks. I wouldn't have rev-deleted those comments but they could have been seen as disruptive. Liz Read! Talk! 01:15, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      WP:UAA backlog

      There's a backlog of almost 5 days at WP:UAA, please could admin(s) take a look? Joseph2302 (talk) 01:41, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      @Joseph2302: Thanks for leaving a note here. I took care of a handful of the oldest cases just now (while on a flying machine— so fancy!) . I, JethroBT drop me a line 07:34, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      WP:RfPP backlog

      It's only about 15 hours backed up or so, but with NeilN off there are fewer eyes over at WP:RfPP and there's currently a bit of a backlog, so if any Admins want to wander over there... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 07:27, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Don't really have any regular clerking admins, would be nice to have some so we don't have one admin shouldering the majority until another admin steps in. tutterMouse (talk) 09:53, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      We definitely do have regular clerking admins, who are at the time NeilN, KrakatoaKatie, BethNaught, Ged UK and me. I might have missed someone else due to the time difference (I am mostly working in the European morning and evening), which would make it even more admins. But indeed in the last several days we tend to be backlogged for whatever reason.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:22, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I usually check in throughout the day but I caught a stomach bug last week that's knocked me for a loop. Doing a little better now. It seems its worst to me in the American very early morning and late afternoon/early evening. If somebody with football knowledge could have a look on a regular basis, it would help a lot. The football/footballer articles sometimes sit for a while because we American admins can be clueless about it (I know I am). Katietalk 13:10, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      As a European, I am fine with the football articles, and also 90% it is transfer rumors not yet confirmed by sources which are persistently added to the articles.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:16, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Help me, please!

      Look, what a vandal Илья Драконов 2 is doing with my pages! Ilya Drakonov (talk) 15:38, 5 January 2016 (UTC).[reply]

      The account was blocked as being an impersonation account of your account it appears. RickinBaltimore (talk) 15:45, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Thanks. Could you protect my talk page for a few weaks? Ilya Drakonov (talk) 15:56, 5 January 2016 (UTC).[reply]
      I'd suggest going to WP:RFPP for that to request it there. I'm not an admin so I can't help in that regard :) RickinBaltimore (talk) 16:00, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Requesting multi-admin close at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Involuntary celibacy (4th nomination)

      The nettle grasped; the page, deleted. WP:DRV, thataway. → - The Bushranger One ping only 23:31, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      This page has become a major time/energy sink, having gone through four AfDs and several DRVs, not to mention various threads at other venues. It's a complicated one, and to give us the best shot at a quasi-lasting outcome, I wonder if we could get a panel of, say, 3 uninvolved admins to do the close. The seven days ends today, and although it wouldn't be unreasonable to relist given the length of the page produced in the first week, it doesn't seem like substantial new arguments are being raised and there haven't been any new !votes in the last 24h.

      The precedent I'm drawing from in suggesting a panel of closers is Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cultural Marxism (2nd nomination), another highly contentious article that spanned many discussions. Of course not everybody was happy with the result, but it seems to have been "sticky", and I imagine that's in part due to the manner in which it was closed. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:47, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      • Let me just add that ArbCom has indeed received a report about canvassing; consensus in our secret cabal is that a. it involves (ALLEGEDLY!) a relatively small number of votes, and b. this is nothing that the admins can't handle. Speaking of admins: good luck to the multi-headed panel called upon to close this. I propose a poll is taken to find out which admins are somehow involved in the topic, by which I mean, you know, the actual topic, not the article. Just to be fair. We gotta have representation from all fields of activity. Please do not post results of said poll anywhere. Drmies (talk) 18:19, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Just bumping this (it'll be the only time). We've passed the 8-day mark without a relist or anyone expressing an inclination to close. Normally not a big deal, but the whole thing seems rather toxic. Better to send this through WP:ANRFC? Or too soon? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:17, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I support going to ANRFC immediately. Fatigue is becoming an issue in that discussion. This needs to end. Townlake (talk) 17:51, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Did we get any other admins to volunteer? I'm willing to tackle this one, and would like to coordinate the closing statement. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 20:46, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm considering it, need to do a little more reading to see if I have the time though. Sam Walton (talk) 20:54, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      OK. Let me know. Remind me - if the coin lands heads, we Keep it, right? I'm kidding, guys. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 21:16, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I'll join, I think this is manageable. And yes, though from what I've seen, if it lands tails we take the discussion to DRV and vote to do a new AfD. Sam Walton (talk) 21:24, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      OK, let me get my thoughts and notes together and we'll see where we are once we get a third. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 22:04, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I would volunteer but I am not an admin. However, would anyone be against the idea of salting subsequent nomination pages, as these are starting to become textbook cases of the "I don't like it" argument, and are not becoming worth it to keep having. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 22:13, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      There's almost certainly a consensus in that discussion for salting and/or not having any more discussions about this page for a while. Sam Walton (talk) 22:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Policy for discussion length: A deletion discussion should normally be allowed to run for seven full days (168 hours). Beyond seven days, it's fair game to close it whenever if closing administrators come to a conclusion. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 00:39, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I have closed the debate as Delete and Salt, have posted a joint statement explaining the close, and have deleted and salted the article. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 17:25, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Resolved

      Thanks to Ultraexactzz, Samwalton9, and Nihonjoe for tackling this. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 18:03, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Can someone point the way to DRV? This close deserves a relisting — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.72.98.205 (talk) 19:18, 8 January 2016‎ (UTC)[reply]

      Go here ;) Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 20:39, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      It is hidden pretty well at WP:DRV. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:54, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      UAA Backlog

      Not sure if this has been a regular occurrence recently, but UAA has been filling up. Requests have been open since the beginning of the year, if anyone wants to tackle a few. Thanks, ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 03:52, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I cleared a few out. Now I don't want to sound like a broken record but I can see at least one case where the editor had created one article that was speedy deleted a week ago, there was no warning about the username policy, and there were no edits since. I warned and closed the report as "wait for more edits", then a few hours later, and another admin comes along, slaps a big orange template on their talk and indef blocks them. Sorry, I can't see the point of a block, and it appears to contradict the policy ie: "Remember that blocking a new user is not actually something we want to do, it is something we do when it is needed to protect Wikipedia from harm." - what's the actual consensus for these sorts of things? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:49, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      OTOH, accounts in violations of username policy, especially for corpnames, cannot be allowed to edit with that username because of our attribution rules. If there is a not a quick reply-and-rename following the initial warning, then they must be blocked in case they come back to the account weeks, months or years later. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 17:26, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Palestine-Israel articles case modified

      The committee has resolved Palestine-Israel articles 1RR by motion that:

      • (1) The General 1RR restriction that is part of the Palestine-Israel articles case is rescinded including all modifications of the remedy.
      • (2) In its place, the following remedy is enacted: Editors are limited to one revert per page per day on any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Reverts made to enforce the General Prohibition are exempt from this limit. Also, the normal exemptions apply. Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked without warning by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.

      Passed 10 to 0 by motion on 7:30 am, Today (UTC+0)

      For the Arbitration Committee, Mdann52 (talk) 08:13, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Palestine-Israel articles case modified

      Genetically modified organisms case modified

      DrChrissy's topic ban which currently states that "DrChrissy is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified plants and agricultural chemicals, broadly interpreted; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed" is replaced with "DrChrissy is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals, and the companies that produce them, broadly interpreted; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed."

      For the Arbitration Committee Amortias (T)(C) 23:05, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Genetically modified organisms case modified

      Request for mediation https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Racism_in_Italy

      Hello, I filed a request for mediation yesterday for this topic https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Racism_in_Italy but did not get any notification. As this is my first such request, I am hoping an Admin can help guide me through the process to get a resolution. Much regards, Trinacrialucente (talk) 21:50, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I see no evidence in your edit history that you filed such a request. Please follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Guide. Miniapolis 23:27, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      For some reason the link I provided in the original request above was not showing under my edit page. I did it a 3rd time and now it is showing https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Racism_in_ItalyTrinacrialucente (talk) 01:38, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      As the request for mediation was rejected by Transporterman, I would like to ask what the next step here is? After on editor challenged me to provide citations and evidence for a topic on the Talk page, I did so. Then another editor (who has been blocked 3 times for edit warring and who did not take part in any discussion on the Talk page) simply reverted the page. This is seriously anti-scholarly behavior and Wikipedia is being held hostage by a few POV-pushing individuals here.Trinacrialucente (talk) 18:39, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Edit requests backlog

      Some help is needed from autoconfirmed editors to help with the backlog at Category:Requested edits and Category:Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests. There are currently 140 requested COI edits and 74 requested semi-protected edits. Mz7 (talk) 06:21, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Taking a look at these now. Nakon 01:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Topic bans for Gamergate?

      Yes, the Gamergate controversy mess again. It is well known that there are SPAs and more-or-less SPAs operating there, of which ForbiddenRocky (talk · contribs) is a prominent one. All sorts of elaborate rules have been created, some apparently by ArbCom, but the net effect seems to be to stifle valid debate about the entire concept of the article, let alone its appearance. The fall-out has, of course, been massive and extends well beyond en-Wikipedia itself. At least anecdotally, there have been site bans here for off-wiki harassment relating to it.

      We've got to break this cycle before it subsumes a massive number of experienced contributors who could probably sort things out but, like me, tend to be discouraged by the sheer ferocity and tenacity of those who are far too closely attached to it. I propose that we start with ForbiddenRocky, who recently hatted a comment by me in the belief that it should be on some sort of subpage. Splitting things apart like this falls into the hands of those who want to control through wikilawyering. How many newbies would look at the subpage, or even realise it exists (I certainly didn't until recently). My comment discussed no editor in particular, specifically mentioned "both sides" and was a terse analysis of the problem that is at the heart of why the article is as it is. I subsequently added this.

      Yes, topic banning ForbiddenRocky purely on the basis of this one thing is ludicrous but I am becoming very frustrated with the pattern on that article and I am sure that other people could find other examples (I've seen loads but am not in a great state to look for them right now). It needs to be opened up and I think the easiest way to do that is to offload those who spend far too much time there for, apparently, very little gain - bearing in mind that the article seems to be as unstable now as it has ever been and that the same arguments keep arising week in, week out involving mostly the same people.

      I'm happy to voluntarily ban myself (I've said very little there anyway and don't think I've edited the article at all) if only we can find a way to break the deadlock. Even topic bans of, say, one month in duration would probably help if we could find some metric for application.

      Not sure where to post this - I do realise that it is not an isolated incident, hence here rather than at ANI. - Sitush (talk) 07:07, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I had thought of something based on if an editor's contributions indicated > X% of total edits to this or related articles (which I think are mostly BLPs). However, the 30/500 rule in force might make that impractical - my brain is a bit fried at the moment and I can't work it out. - Sitush (talk) 07:32, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      You did two reverts of ForbiddenRocky, which is not permitted. You should have asked for help before the second revert. However I agree that you talk should not have been hatted. 08:28, 8 January 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Graeme Bartlett (talk • contribs)
      Isn't it on the talk page? That plays straight into the hands of the wikilawyers. Regardless, my main point here is not that specific incident but rather how to find a way out of the morass. Perhaps it needs some sort of revision to past ArbCom remedies - I really don't know because it isn't the sort of thing I'm usually involved with. - Sitush (talk) 08:37, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      As an editor of video game articles, this is one of those topics Id rather not get involved with under any circumstance. However, I am neutral on the matter and could provide a fresh perspective on the whole situation. → Call me Razr Nation 10:22, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Dont do it. Also no doubt someone will claim you have a COI because you love gaming mice or other such nonsense ;) Gamergate is a conflict between a tiny subset of forum/reddit/chan gamers (and I mean *tiny* given the % of the population of the world who play electronic games), journalists and rent-an-activists. For the majority of the happily gaming population and the entirety of the games industry proper, it is a non-event. Best keep it that way. Let them argue amongst themselves and keep doing your thing. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:30, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I tend towards this sentiment but then I think, hey, if we keep brushing this under the carpet then the attrition will continue. It only takes a few experienced contributors to turn a mess round, provided they get a level playing field. Quite a few of the higher-profile caste articles were pretty much sorted out in this way and, yes, those too tended to be frequented by SPAs. - Sitush (talk) 12:54, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      786 edits to that talk page, which is over half their total number of edits. But they rank only #6 for most contributions on that talk page... Drmies (talk) 16:06, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Only in Death hits the nail on the head. According to recent surveys around 178 million Americans are regular gamers (multiple hours per week). Average age of men being 35, women being 43. 99.9% of these people couldn't care less about GG and the only reason they'd even heard of it, if they have at all, is because of the abuse and harassment GG has heaped on women because that's all they're notable for. The article right now is a battleground of a tiny subset of vocal gamers fighting over something that's barely notable in the community that it concerns. If the article stuck to the actual notable events surrounding GG, that are mostly years old now, it would be a fifth of its size. Capeo (talk) 17:21, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The claim that you discussed no editor would sound way more plausible if you hadn't responded to a comment of "I've put in an incredibly bold edit," by an editor you have repeatedly attacked as an SPA with, "The idea of SPAs making incredibly bold edits here doesn't surprise in the slightest, although of course they shouldn't be allowed within a mile of the article anyway." 107.72.99.29 (talk) 12:17, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      "They" is plural, ie: SPAs shouldn't be allowed within ..., etc. And this is the last time I respond to an anon in this thread. Anons in this topic area are in my opinion almost entirely people trying to avoid scrutiny. I see, by the way, that ForbiddenRocky has now activated the Wikibreak Enforcer. I suppose that is a start. - Sitush (talk) 12:50, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Sitush - there's a bit of a pattern on that page of people turning up, claiming to be super-neutral and only concerned about article quality, then making the suggestion that we ignore usual source policies/block a bunch of users/include a bunch of stuff that goes against UNDUE/delete the article entirely. This pattern does not generally increase article quality and frequently leads to a suspicion that such users are not really all that neutral after all, I would avoid repeating it. Artw (talk) 16:20, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      There is certainly a pattern of people getting shouted down by entrenched contributors, quite a few of whom seem to contribute to little but that and related articles. That so many people have queried the quality and even the "sense" of it (ie: they read it and haven't got much clue what it is dealing with) suggests that new blood would be A Good Thing. Not mine, obviously. - Sitush (talk) 16:27, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      When editors show up to ask and question the neutrality and then get labeled as Gamergate supporters by entrenched editors simply because they are questioning the article's narrative, that is a problem. I note I have not looked at the page since September per my voluntary ban, but what Sitush is saying is what has been happening even before the ArbCom case and was the basis for it. Note that there needs to be a larger discussion on dealing with ongoing controversies and the methods of the media today and how they intersect with WP policies that GG is only one recent example of, as what I've seen happening across WP lately is the use of UNDUE and FRINGE as shotgun approaches to shut down any deviation from mainstream sources, encouraging the type of behavior Sitush describes. --MASEM (t) 16:44, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't beiieve this is the right approach to this discussion. This was an extremely contentious arbcom case, bringing it here when the community was already unable to handle the situation seems unlikely to produce the desired result. A filing it WP:AE or WP:ARCA seems like a better approach. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:19, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Perhaps. I did say that I wasn't sure where would be best. I don't think there is anything from the case that could be enforced, so I guess ARCA would be the better of those two options. - Sitush (talk) 16:27, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      My User Page

      Lrwx has logged into the new username, so closing. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:17, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

      The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      Hi, can't create my user page. Its on local or global blacklists. Could anybody help me. --Lrwx------ (talk) 12:03, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      If we create it for you, you will not be able to edit it. You could make a draft page, and someone could move it for you. But... How about you chose a username with less than 6 consecutive symbols in it? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:27, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The talk page will not work either, so definitely change your username . Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:29, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      @Lrwx------: The rename help page is Wikipedia:Changing username, it also links to the pages where you can ask for a rename.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:30, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Seems like a flaw in the system that a user could even create a username that the software will not allow a user or talk page for. . Would they even have been warned about this when creating the account? Beeblebrox (talk) 16:22, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      hmmm Didn't see it on the blacklist, but I can understand why it would be troublesome, it's a set of linux permissions usually associated to files, so theoretically User:Lrwx---- would mean User(is) Linked (with) read, write & execute permissions. Yeah, I'd say a name change is needed . KoshVorlon 16:30, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Your account has been renamed to Lrwx on commonswiki, cswiki, dewiki, enwiki, enwikibooks, enwikinews, enwikiquote, enwikisource, enwikiversity, enwikivoyage, enwiktionary, frwiki, incubatorwiki, loginwiki, mediawikiwiki, metawiki, nlwiki, plwiki, ruwiki, specieswiki, svwiki, trwiki, and wikidatawiki. You will need to logout of your account, then login again using "Lrwx" as your username and then whatever your existing password is. Hope that helps. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:47, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Also, it may be good to point some developers at this issue so something can be added to prevent such usernames in the future. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:49, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Devs probably can't do a lot. It appears to be a local blacklist - so as the account was not actually created here, it would have bypassed it. Nothing can be done, unfortunately. Mdann52 (talk) 21:39, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Even if it's local, it should still be something looked at in order to prevent such issues in the future. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:45, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      User:Bruskom

      WP:DRN is thataway. → - The Bushranger One ping only 23:26, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      Hi, Please see in my opinion the talk page's Bruskom. Urmia lake is located in West Azerbaijan in Iranian Azerbaijan region, Iran and this user write this lake for region of Kurdistan. also west Azerbaijan Province: the majority of west Azerbaiajn are Iranian Azerbaijanis & only large minority Kurds living in province. but User:Bruskom write all of the West Azerbaijan is Kurdistan's geographical my neutralization.please consider it--SaməkTalk 19:34, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Content dispute. Read the dispute resolution policy. Discuss on article talk page. If that fails, follow one of the content dispute resolution procedures, such as third opinion. Report conduct issues at arbitration enforcement after reading the boomerang essay. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:41, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      Standard offer request for Bazaan

      Hello,

      I am passing along a Standard offer unblock request from Bazaan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). This request was sent to UTRS. The user has requested that the content of the unblock request be forwarded to the noticeboard. The relevant content is as follows:

      I agree to another Standard Offer if necessary, although it would be the second time. I would like the content of my unblock request to be forwarded to the noticeboard. I promise to never repeat the behaviour which led to my initial block, and the subsequent indefinite block.

      Why do you believe you should be unblocked? It's been six months, please give me another chance. At least give me a rope.

      If you are unblocked, what articles do you intend to edit? Most South Asian, but wide ranging

      Why do you think there is a block currently affecting you? If you believe it's in error, tell us how. I purposefully brought a sock puppetry ban on my account. It's my fault. I have suffered enough, including tremendous personal attacks.

      Is there anything else you would like us to consider when reviewing your block? Plenty of accounts have been blocked in my name, although most aren't mine.

      The ones used by me are Bazaan, Rainmaker23, Uck22, JKhan20 and Merchant of Asia.

      The user has not received any additional blocks on the account and is therefore tentatively eligible for Standard Offer consideration. Thanks, Nakon 01:23, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      • There were issues concerning Bazaan and his or her socks other then sockpuppetry itself, which the editor doesn't mention. Search on "Bazaan" in the noticeboard files. I'd like to hear what the editor has to say about that behavior. BMK (talk) 01:52, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've modified Bazaan's block to permit him to edit his talk page: if we're willing to consider unblocking someone, the situation isn't so bad that talk access should remain disabled, and it's easier if the user can post messages on his own talk page instead of relying on UTRS assistance. Nakon, would you mind sending Bazaan an email asking him to make further replies on his talk page? Nyttend (talk) 02:31, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        I've sent User:Bazaan an email update regarding their talk page. Thanks, Nakon 02:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Apart from the sockpuppetry, there was some copyright issues way, way back. Is there anything else, from a content perspective, that would merit a conditional unblock? By which I mean, an "unblock conditional on an acceptance of a topic ban in articles relating to XYZ." Blackmane (talk) 06:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment - I may be unusually strict, but I oppose any sort of standard offer when there has been sockpuppetry/ I don't think that anyone who has engaged in sockpuppetry can be trusted at their end, at least not until the twenty-second century. That is my opinion. It just reflects a distinction between editors who make mistakes and editors who choose to game the system. I know that other editors are more forgiving than I am, and I am very forgiving of flaming, but not of sockpuppetryl Robert McClenon (talk) 06:48, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Further note from Bazaan's talk page:

        I am responding to issues raised in ANI. I again commit myself to never repeating the behavior which caused my indefinite block. In 2013 and 2014, I had differences with a few editors of WP:Bangladesh, which unfortunately swelled into a rather traumatic cycle of personal hostilities. This included pointless edit wars and conflicts over what pictures to be placed in what article. The absence of Wikipedia administrative or arbitration personnel caused the situation to deteriorate further. Initially when I joined Wikipedia around 2007, I was much younger and faced several issues like copyright infringement. But I now have a stronger understanding of Wikipedia policies. I believe I have matured over time. My contributions were never questioned for pushing an unacceptable POV, but a few people at times disagreed with its relevance. However, I used reliable and credible references. If my editing privileges are restored, you will not see any dramatic rise in editing activity. If there are any issues, it will be brought to either DRN or ANI. I've learnt my lesson truly well. I don't deserve a topic ban as I never had serious content disputes. It was mostly personal attacks over pictures and relevant sentences. Lastly regarding sockpuppetry, please have a look at the first investigation. As one administrator notes, he didn't even consider what happened to be sockpuppetry. I opened a second account after being blocked. My mistake. I have always made good faith contributions. Never in bad faith of gaming the system.

        This was left as an unblock request, which I've declined because it wouldn't be right for me to unblock him as this discussion's still ongoing. It was a procedural decline (don't think of it as a frivolous request), and I've asked him to use {{helpme}} when writing future comments for this discussion. Nyttend (talk) 13:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Bazaan writes "I believe I have matured over time", but he also writes "The absence of Wikipedia administrative or arbitration personnel caused the situation to deteriorate further" and "I don't deserve a topic ban as I never had serious content disputes. It was mostly personal attacks over pictures and relevant sentences." These don't appear to me to be the statements of someone who has "learnt [their] lesson truly well", as they are still blaming others and not taking responsibility for their actions. And for an editor who used multiple sockpuppets to write "Lastly regarding sockpuppetry, please have a look at the first investigation. As one administrator notes, he didn't even consider what happened to be sockpuppetry. I opened a second account after being blocked. My mistake." is not acceptable. Perhaps we can accept that one sockpuppet was a "mistake", but what about the other three they admit to? (That's assuming we can take their word that other accounts which were blocked as theirs were incorrectly identified.) I'm not yet closing the door on this, but, at least so far, I do not find the editor's comments to be persuasive. BMK (talk) 00:43, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Although I'm often in agreement with BMK's opinions, in this case I do believe a few of Bazaan's statements are somewhat excusable. Articles about the sub continent can be very contentious considering articles about India and Pakistan ended up at Arbcom. Perhaps Bangladeshi articles should fall into that category given the nation's history with India, but that's a discussion for another page. The sockpuppetry issue is certainly of concern. Perhaps a quick check by a CheckUser would alleviate this concern. [Iff] no socking is revealed in the last 6 months, I could probably support a conditional unblock. Bazaan has admitted to having issues in Bangladeshi articles in the past and letting him back into this area may not be healthiest. If no socking is revealed, then I could support an unblock provided a 3 month topic ban from Bangladeshi articles is levied to encourage Bazaan to edit somewhere else so the community could regain some confidence and to truly prove that he has "matured over time". However, if socking is revealed within the last 6 months, then the offer is off the table. Blackmane (talk) 05:29, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Review of EEng's indefinite block

      I think a review of EEng's indefinite block by Nakon is needed. I know EEng and although I acknowledge that his sense of humour is not everyone's cup of tea, I also know that it cannot possibly be the reason for an indefinite block. The block was placed without prior warning with a rationale of NOTHERE with talkpage/email access removed initially, then restored after a complaint by another editor. Also EEng's user and talk pages were blanked. These actions are rather strong and unwarranted in this case, as they concern an editor in good standing. Various editors have talked to Nakon, including myself, but s/he currently appears to have stopped editing. Consequently, I am requesting a review of the block. In an attempt to minimise drama I am requesting the review here rather than ANI. Thank you. Dr. K. 06:11, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Yes, it was a mistake. But let's give Nakon at least a few minutes to reverse himself, and give Drmies a few minutes to chime in here... "Cowboy unblocks" of other Admins' blocks is one of the more vexing issues we've had to deal with lately, and let's not add this one to the pile... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:19, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      While I agree that caution is needed for any action, I don't think reversing this faulty block asap qualifies as a cowboy unblock. Also Nakon appears to be offline currently. Dr. K. 06:25, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Generally we give a reasonable amount of time for the blocking administrator to explain their position. EEng seems to be offline right now too. HighInBC 06:25, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      When I wrote the above I had not realized that the blocking admin has already explained their position on their talk page. HighInBC 06:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Drmies seems offline right now as well. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:31, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Generally, I would agree. But this block is extraordinarily bad. In any case, I don't wish to rush anyone. This is just my opinion. Dr. K. 06:28, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      No – the blocking Admin should be the one to undo their mistakes. This is exactly the problem we have right now – Admins stepping all over each other, which is just leading to bad feelings. If EEng is owed an apology, I fully expect one will be forthcoming shortly. Let the process play out. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:31, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      (edit conflict) Ideally, I agree that the blocking admin should undo their mistake. But this should be done in a reasonable amount of time. If that time is exceeded, someone else has to step in and reverse the block. Dr. K. 06:39, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      A "reasonable amount of time" is measured in hours (on Wikipedia), not minutes or seconds. Currently, it looks like the 3 main parties to this are offline. The place isn't on fire, so there's no need to rush. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:42, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Did I say I wanted this resolved in minutes or seconds? Or that I wanted to rush this? In fact, just above I explicitly mentioned that I don't wish to rush anyone. Dr. K. 06:48, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I think there must be more involved. A bit of snarky behaviour deserves a trouting at best. HighInBC 06:51, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      What is the background to this block? Is it purely from this discussion? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:44, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      • I'm still assuming a misunderstanding here. At the least, Nakon should have the opportunity to explain/defend his actions. I've dealt with Nakon enough to believe that this has just got to be an mistake... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 07:04, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • An error in judgement for sure, but I think their responses "I feel that the indefinite block is necessary" and "I blocked the account for abusive comments, especially this one: [2]" pretty much rule out misunderstanding to me. Seems more like a difference of opinion on what justifies an indef block. HighInBC 07:08, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Blocking an editor of EEng's stature on WP:NOTHERE grounds strikes me as showing confusion as to the circumstances. The other context here is that I asked Nakon to revdel a BLP violation just minutes before the EEng thing, and the BLP violator clearly was a NOTHERE case. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 07:11, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • The very first thing I thought was that they meant to block another user, I don't see how that can be the case now after the conversation on their talk page. HighInBC 07:15, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • (edit conflict) I pretty much agree with this. While it's a done deal that Nakon intentionally blocked somebody, the circumstances are so strange that I'd be willing to believe Nakon made a mistake in the investigation phase leading up to issuing the block. That said, from where I'm sitting it looks like negligence or recklessness. (I'm editing way too damn many tort law case articles today) —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 07:18, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm not familiar with EEng, but Nakon's block would be the 6th block for this editor in 16 months. An indefinite block does seem excessive, but I don't think a wholesale unblock is necessarily appropriate either considering this editors habitual personal attacks. WP:DOUBLESTANDARD is one of the bigger injustices on Wikipedia. Had EEng not have been an "established editor" this conversation would not be happening. I'm in agreement WP:NOTHERE was perhaps not the correct grounds for the block though. Mkdwtalk 07:49, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • A finite block would be reasonable. HighInBC 07:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Perhaps we wouldn't be here if EEng weren't an established editor, but we're here, and there's clearly some kind of problem. Perhaps it's just negligence or a simple mistake as I have hoped elsewhere in this thread, in which case a reminder to Nakon to be more careful would be in order, which Nakon would hopefully take on board, and there'd be a reduced risk of Nakon enacting a disproportionate block against another editor (perhaps a less well-known editor) in the future. In short, even if EEng should've been blocked, this incident will improve Nakon's use of the admin tools in situations that other editors are not so likely to see. And honestly, an indef with revocation of e-mail and talk page access for a non-established editor—even one with six blocks in the last two years—for the same comment would also have been excessive. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 08:17, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • And that doesn't include the blanking of his user and talk pages and the placement of a block notice on his userpage. These actions are excessive even in the case of a new editor. Dr. K. 08:24, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Not to mention that he also blocked my use of email-this-user, effectively forcing any unblock request by me to go through the very UTRS system for which he is a gatekeepers. EEng (talk) 13:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Yes, it would also be helpful to here from Drmies on this... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 08:43, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Given Drmies' comment "obviously EEng has a lot of time on their hands" immediately before the block, it seems that EEng was simply responding in kind. When is Nakon going to indef block Drmies for personal attacks? (note to the humour impaired, this is sarcasm) Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:19, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Lest the casual reader misunderstand, Ritchie333, when you say "EEng was responding in kind", you didn't mean that Drmies was actually making a personal attack, provoking me to attack in return; nor did you even mean that Drmies had been uncivil or unpleasant in some way, provoking me to be unpleasant in return. What you meant was that Drmies gave me what was obviously a bit of goodnatured ribbing, and I gave a bit of goodnatured ribbing in return (see [3]). Right? EEng (talk) 13:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Yup, it was just a bit of banter as far as I'm concerned, totally unwarranting a block. Right, back to article work methinks. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:53, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Unblock, immediately if not sooner. This is hands-down the worst block I've seen in my time on Wikipedia, and I've seen some whoppers. Frankly I was shocked, especially at seeing this referred to as "abusive" and called out by Nakon as one of the primary reasons for the block. I'll note, also, this comment and then this one's of Nakon's - the second heralding the block without giving EEng the chance to so much as reply. Yes, he's snarky. Yes, I've shook my head at some of his peanut-gallery comments at ANI. But he is, IMHO, by no means abusive, and the worst part about this for everyone else is that Nikon has caused a chilling effect on everyone else at ANI who suddenly has to ask themselves if trying to inject a little levity in the grim darkness of the Adiministrators' Noticeboard/Incidents board will wind up with them being summarily blocked with their pages wiped and talk page and email access revoked without so much as a by-your-leave. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:51, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • As this has been up for a few hours, consensus is trending towards an immediate unblock, and my own review confirmed that the block was not justified, I have removed it. I encourage some further discussion as a matter of feedback for all parties, Nakon, EEng and myself. WormTT(talk) 09:38, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • As a generic comment, I don't think that it's good form for admins who block established editors to use the generic "You have been blocked from editing for abuse of editing privileges" template as was used here. This is OK when blocking clearly disruptive accounts, but not when the editor isn't just here to cause problems and/or when other admins might need to review the block. At the risk of piling on, the block rationale and duration were clearly errors. Nick-D (talk) 09:59, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Support Unblock, and question why Nakon is still an admin This is wholly unacceptable behavior from an administrator. This is malicious, and throwing down an indef like this and then running away is not the way administrators should behave. Unless Nakon completely owns up to their mistake and promises never to do anything like this again, they should have such powers removed from their person. --Tarage (talk) 10:00, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Then the question not needs to turn to if Nakon should remain an administrator. This is the biggest boomerang I have ever seen. --Tarage (talk) 10:07, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm going to go with it being a little premature to ask Nakon to hand in the keys on the back of one incident. Unless there's a clear indication it's not isolated, or there's an emergency, I think it's best to let Nakon explain this. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 10:36, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Of all the places where we are sorely in need of a mop, this was the last place. righteous unblock for sure. -Roxy the dog™ woof 10:44, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Mendaliv is right - let's let the peanut gallery die down on this one and hopefully when this has blown over in a day or two, we'll get a sensible and rational response out of Nakon. I will say that if EEng is tempted to put a picture of a orang utan anywhere and compare it to admin, it might be best to let temptation pass for now. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:59, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      An admin upholds one of the five pillars without throwing his weight around.
      Ritchie, I would never take such a swipe at admins in general, as you'll realize when you remind yourself of this text (and its accompanying image, seen here as well) on my user page:
      And let me be clear: I have no problem with 97% of admins, who do noble work in return for (generally) either no recognition or shitloads of grief, only occasionally punctuated by thanks. But the other 3%—​whoa, boy, watch out!
      EEng (talk) 13:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Admins are also humans, they can do mistake, same way editors are also humans, they too can do mistakes. I think this matter should not be dragged further. That will be better. Sometime such things happens. Let it go. EEng is unblocked now. --Human3015TALK  11:39, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The problem is that, as I mentioned above, after the initial block and with no action on the part of the blocked party the talk page access and email access were revoked. That is the single most serious concern I have here now - the (for want of a better phrasing) unprovoked escalation following the intial block - it escalates it above "a mistake in the heat in the moment" to the "what on Earth..." level. I agree that we do need to near Nakon's explanation here instead of breaking out the pitchforks and boiling oil, but we can't just say "oh, it was a mistake" in this case - a mistake doesn't come back five minutes later to do something like that. - The Bushranger One ping only 12:38, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Exactly. This is blatant administrative recklessness followed by a blithe, vague-wave brushoff of WP:ADMINACCT [4] inconsistent with his own entry in the block log. I don't think it aggrandizes my momentary martyrdom to say that the outcome of this thread will tell us plebians once and for all whether admins are subject to even the most minimal standards of accountability, or can do whatever the fuck they want with no meaningful consequences, ever. Imagine if I'd been a new user‍—‌score another one for editor retention! EEng (talk) 13:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Nakon misinterpreted a friendly exchange as a personal attack. As a result of his misinterpretation, Nakon decided to act on it as an admin, which was a mistake. Because Nakon has difficulty interpreting contextual humor and differentiating it from an actual attack, he should ask his fellow admins for a second opinion in the future. Further, he should think twice about using his admin tools in a similar situation again. Viriditas (talk) 20:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I was logged out throughout this entire incident, and I realize that it is now completely over with, but I want nonetheless to register my strong opinion that this block was a serious error, and I am sorry that EEng had to be subjected to it. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:23, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Response

      I'd like to start by apologizing to EEng and the greater community for my actions last night. I made a huge mistake in blocking the account without doing deeper research into the situation and I will strive to not make the same mistake in the future. I had been fighting a cold and was awake for way too long before coming to the project, which contributed to the severe lack of judgment and quick action. I understand that doesn't excuse my actions and I'm not sure why I kept editing on the site, but it was the wrong thing to do and I take full responsibility for the improper block. I'm deeply sorry for the disruption that I caused and will take the above comments to heart before making any further administrative actions. Thanks, Nakon 20:30, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Thanks for that Nakon. My concerns are certainly laid to rest, assuming there's no repeat of the actions. WormTT(talk) 20:44, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I agree with WTT. Dr. K. 20:48, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      These things happen. I hope you feel better, Nakon. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 21:05, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      And that's what was needed. Thanks for the explanation, and remember don't cold medicate and admin. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:44, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Sadly, there is a lot of truth to what you've said. I avoid all cold medications (it helps that I only get a cold about once every ten years) because they can seriously impair your thinking. Viriditas (talk) 23:28, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      "You've still a lot to do before the weekend... ", [5], [6]. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC) ... sadly I too also sometimes feel "I was awake for way too long before coming to the project".[reply]
      Next time I do something stupid, I'm going to remember this. Sounds better than blaming it on drink. Dicklyon (talk) 00:18, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      And you can use the Neelix method of saying it's all getting a bit too much for you to escape any sanctions. Oh wait, that only works if you're an admin... Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 10:25, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Two edit filter RfCs

      Please vote and join discussions at two RfCs regarding the edit filter, including the possibility of enabling its blocking ability. Sam Walton (talk) 18:19, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Request close review of RFC - Remove Flow from WikiProject Breakfast?

      I closed "RFC - Remove Flow from WikiProject Breakfast?". It was closed as consensus to remove Flow. Afterwards one of the participants (Ottawahitech) disagreed and has stated the desire to request a review but had no idea how or time to do so.[7] Ottawahitech had asked questions about the close here Obviously not aware of the correct forum to ask for a review.
      In order to settle this in a timely fashion I am asking for a review. As I understand the concerns, the RFC is questioned on the basis of outside responses and that the members of a Wikiproject should have more say in the outcome. Here are some facts:

      1. The RFC had a small turn out.
      2. As can be seen from the Wikiprojects member list as of the time of the closing only 2 members participated. The rest are not members according to the member page.
      3. The 2 members responded with a neutral comment(Doug Weller) and a remove Flow comment(Cullen328).

      Thank you for your input in advance. AlbinoFerret 20:29, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      RFC's are specifically to get more input, usually from uninvolved editors. So the nonmember argument is out the window. It probably was not the best option if the project wanted local consensus to take precedent. Too late to complain now tho. Close is fine. Only in death does duty end (talk) 00:39, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Doesn't that argument go out the window when the RFC was not started by project members but an outside uninvolved editor? Basically I see this complaint as an editor outside of WikiProject Breakfast, at least from what I see, came in and started an RFC to remove Flow. --Jnorton7558 (talk) 01:23, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Wait, that pile of steaming dead tauntaun is Flow?! Oi vey, Jimbo save us from the WMF's "improvements"... - The Bushranger One ping only 01:43, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • (Disclosure: I initiated the RFC). According to WP:WikiProject_Council/Inactive_projects To qualify as "inactive", a project page should have had no directly project-related activity for at least three months. There had been no project-related activity for fourteen months. Until I started the RFC there was no one there to object to the removal of Flow, and there was no one there to bring the defunct "trial" to an end. The only posts were a few random Flow-testing-posts (which didn't belong there according to the page header message) and WMF-Staff posting about a Flow bug. I don't think there can be any reasonable objection to an RFC requesting input on whether the Flow trial should continue, especially when it is possible that Flow itself may have contributed to the death of activity on the project.
      Reasonable arguments were made for ending the Flow trial. I see no basis for striking those responses. The close accurately reflected the clear majority outcome. As such, I Endorse the close. Alsee (talk) 03:55, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Request for uncontroversial RfC close

      Could I ask that an uninvolved admin (or experienced editor) close the RfC currently underway at "Woman" article. All participants have agreed that any local consensus is not applicable as it will be overridden by the RfC pertaining to infobox image galleries underway at the MOS talk page, and everyone involved on the "Woman" article's RfC have now !voted at the higher level RfC. A comment guiding potential editors to the main RfC would be appreciated. I would close it myself, but would prefer that an uninvolved editor do so. Thank you. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 20:46, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Odd technical problem with a closed AfD

      Thanks. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:52, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      Can somebody smarter than me figure out what's made Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kreuz Oranienburg go all wonky? The "this AfD is closed" archive box is, for some reason, covering all of the AfDs below it in the log as well, and I can't for the life of me figure out why - the closure code at the top or the bottom doesn't change when I paste in the code from one that displays correctly... - The Bushranger One ping only 01:41, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Fixed now, there is a random extra div tag in it that was never closed. --Jnorton7558 (talk) 02:20, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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