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WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:47, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Shelley

Please have a look at this "short course" on P.B. Shelley, which has been prepared at Wikiversity by User:Ottava Rima, who is an admin there but a currently banned user here, as most of you will know. Ottava contacted me about seeing if we can transfer some of this material to Wikipedia. Per WP:CSD#G5, it wouldn't be appropriate to just copy it over; if we're going to have these pages on Wikipedia, then there needs to be some kind of community assent and community vetting of the material. I'm only an occasional reader of Shelley, so I'm in no position to judge the value of the material. The sources I've checked are not available online (except via previews at Google Books), which makes it hard for me to verify things, but maybe some of you have the printed sources. - Dank (push to talk) 00:12, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 3#Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Fringe science amended. If one to three editors are willing to accept responsibility for the material imported, it would be worth it for them to file an amendment request with ArbCom asking for permission to import appropriate portions of material from Ottava Rima's Wikiversity courses. As individually offered advice, include a clear conveyance of what standards will be used in choosing material to import, including how material appropriate for Wikiversity but inappropriate for Wikipedia will be distinguished. It's worth a try and it would clear up any uncertainty about material authored by a banned editor or proxying for the editor in this circumstance. Vassyana (talk) 02:48, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Sure thing; next step is to see if we get some response here, since this seems like the likely wikiproject to work with (and the one Ottava suggested). - Dank (push to talk) 03:23, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I would be willing to vouch and help as far as I can, having worked with Ottava on a number of articles. Ceoil sláinte 16:02, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm willing to make the occasional library trip, but I don't know bupkis about poetry except how much I dislike most of it--Tznkai (talk) 19:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Okay, I understand there's one more person coming who's knowledgeable and willing to help. I don't know the material or have the sources, so I'm out of my league here, but I'll be willing to copyedit if someone points me in the right direction. - Dank (push to talk) 21:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd support this but due to being busy am unable to help.  GARDEN  22:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm mostly useless these days, being busy etc. for at least a couple weeks if not longer... But perhaps I can putter around a bit on the edges of things, and try to chip in a modicum of help. • Ling.Nut 05:58, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
I have none of the sources listed in that course but I can vouch for Ottava's honesty and integrity. He seems very knowledgeable on literature of this type and I'd have no hesitation in supporting any copying of material. Parrot of Doom 11:01, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Ditto above comments. No reason not to perform this move; Ottava's content contributions have always been top-notch. --Andy Walsh (talk) 21:37, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Consider this with the caveat that poetry is not a topic I relate to, but I have never had any problems with the content Ottava Rima added to Wikipedia. --Moni3 (talk) 23:29, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I have been in some offline discussions with Ottava Rima about this. I was offering supporting material as fits in with Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles, subproject Dictionary of National Biography, where I'm active already. This is in effect a fairly comprehensive fact-checking resource, complementary to modern critical literature. I feel this could all work, with a piecemeal approach. I'm not really up to speed with what is already posted on Shelley, but having seem plenty of Ottava Rima's work when we were both working on Milton topics, I don't think problems of integration would prove insurmountable. Charles Matthews (talk) 19:43, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed with Andy. To the extent of my knowledge, Ottava's content was never the issue; it was his temperament and/or comments which brought conflict upon him. I don't know anything about poetry, but I'd be willing to vouch for it if necessary. —Ed (talk • majestic titan) 20:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Ottava asked me to take a peek, here. I don't have time at present to review the material, but if the quality is good and somebody's willing to vouch for it, why not? If there's drama involved, people blindly copying everything, or other shenanigans, that's one thing, but good content is good content, and assuming that's what we're getting here I don't see why we're turn it down. – Luna Santin (talk) 19:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people

Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, nearly all wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:

  1. supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
  2. opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced article if they are not sourced, so your project may want to pursue the projects below.

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people

List of cleanup articles for your project

If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here

Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip

Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip

Ikip 02:14, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people

Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, nearly all wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:

  1. supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
  2. opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced BLP articles if they are not sourced, so your project may want to source these articles as soon as possible. See the next, message, which may help.

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people

List of cleanup articles for your project

If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here

Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip

Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip

Ikip 02:24, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

James Michie

Is there not an article on this author of "Dooley is a Traitor"? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

To arms! To arms!

Category:Poetasters is proposed for deletion!
 Object or support -- voice your view 'ere completion!
 Shall Wikipedia ignore the profound connections among all
 The glorious rhymsters like William McGonagall,
 McIntyre, Moore, McKittrick Ros,
 Or J. Gordon Coogler (some might think it a loss),
 But others [to comply with WP:CANVASS provisions],
 Might deem this deletion a darn good decision.
 Decide for yourself, and (here [1]) make your views known,
 On the category for poets for badness renowned!
 -- JohnWBarber (talk) 17:52, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for raising the issue - and in such style! -- BlackMarlin (talk) 18:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Possible attempt at paid editing

Please see this link for more information. I'm not sure what the current rules are regarding paid editing, but it's probably a good idea to keep an eye out for articles about Pakistani/Urdu poets that may be the result of paid editing and make sure they follow the rules of factuality and neutrality. - 131.211.210.182 (talk) 09:09, 3 February 2010 (UTC) (User:Mgm, too lazy to log in)

Romanticism and Revolution at AfD

Please offer opinions at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Romanticism and Revolution. -- Banjeboi 15:25, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

tables versus bulleted lists

I am growing concerned at seeing meretricious, overly complicated tables taking the place of bulleted lists in reference to an author's work. See examples at Marcel Proust and Elizabeth Barrett Browning. I have opined on Elizabeth's talk page and no one has responded there so I am bringing this issue here. I prefer seeing an author's work presented in the form of a bulleted list as in Elizabeth F. Ellet and as described in MOS:WORKS. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? - Josette (talk) 18:38, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

See Washington Irving's list of works or Bibliography of Edgar Allan Poe. I don't really have a problem with it but, then again, I'm not necessarily advocating it either. --Midnightdreary (talk) 04:24, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Milton's "Heavenly muse": Ghost or Satan? You decide!

Was Milton's muse the Holy Spirit? DId Milton have a Ghost writer? Was Milton inspired by Satan during the night? Please join the discussion here ;-) Paul August ☎ 14:20, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Acrostic

Acrostic now contains acrostic. Polishing invited. -- SEWilco (talk) 03:58, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Request help with this template

See Template:17th Century Scholasticism

1. Is this correct? Were the Metaphysical poets (at least the ones that were Anglican priests) part of Anglican scholastic theology? I am of the impression, given their use of argument and abstraction, that they came from a scholastic background, such as neo-Aristotelianism or Platonism. However, I am not very familar with this subject. Please correct me if the Metaphysical poets are not a good fit for this template. Thanks.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 02:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Dave Morice

Anyone want to have a crack at cleaning up Dave Morice? Rd232 talk 10:56, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Oxford Professor of Poetry

Here we go again. I have been working on the list, dealing with the eighteenth century where there were some not-too-notable gaps. Is anyone ready with the John Jones who was Professor from 1978 to 1983, to fill the remaining blank? Charles Matthews (talk) 10:26, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

So he is a critic, not a poet; born 1924 as far as I can tell, has written books on Wordsworth, Dostoyevsky, Shakespeare. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:53, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thomas L. Vaultonburg

Please look in on Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Thomas_L._Vaultonburg.

The author - auto-biographical - thinks that the references show notability; "I am confident if people who have this expertise see it they will be able to tell you these publication credits are pretty substantial."

They wrote, if you want to claim it's not noteworthy do me the small honor of checking your facts first. Go see what percentage of submissions a publication like Exquisite Corpse or Caliban or Karamu published, or who else appears in those periodicals

-that was in a {{helpme}} request, hence my asking here, for others to consider the sourcing. Many thanks,  Chzz  ►  04:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


Kubla Khan and Ode: Intimations of Immortality

Please reassess Kubla Khan and Ode: Intimations of Immortality, both of which have been hugely expanded. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  04:11, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Deletion discussion for Category:Poetasters

Category:Poetasters has been nominated for deletion (the seven days will run out at 21:13 on August 1). The discussion is here. This discussion may be of interest to anybody interested in poetry. Please take a look at it and consider helping us come to a decision on whether or not to keep the category. -- JohnWBarber (talk) 15:44, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of The Botanic Garden

I have conducted a reassessment of this article as part of the GA Sweeps process. I have a few concerns about the prose, which you may find at Talk:The Botanic Garden/GA1. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:35, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I prefer the Temple of Nature myself, but if no one shows up to work on this, I can. Just drop me a notice on my talk page. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:29, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
It seems that Awadewit is on it. :) Ottava Rima (talk) 19:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Dionisio Ridruejo

I recently created an article for Dionisio Ridruejo and in the course of researching it I discovered that he was apparently a well-known poet. My own interest was only in his political career as I know next to nothing about poetry (especially in Spanish) but the article looks incomplete without any information on his work. As such this is a request for some knowledgable person or persons from here to look into adding the relevant information. Apologies in advance if this is not the right forum for requesting such help. Keresaspa (talk) 18:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessessment of Joyce Kilmer

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. I have found a large number of concerns and as a result have de-listed the article. When these issues have been addressed, it may be re-nominated at WP:GAN. If you disagree with the delisting and the assessment at Talk:Joyce Kilmer/GA1, you may ask for a community reassessment at WP:GAR. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Djelloul Marbrook

I ran across Djelloul Marbrook while checking for stray markup code, and there may be multiple issues at play here. Much of the article is promotional (review blurbs), the non-blurb part of the "Far From Algiers" section is copied from a bookseller site, and the article has been edited by someone with the same name as the article subject. I'm way out of my depth with modern literary figures, and I was hoping someone here might know what to do with it. My first instinct was to cut everything below the "Summary/Context" section, although there is potentially some useful biographical material in the "Far From Algiers" biographical information. J. Spencer (talk) 19:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Elvis's Twin Sister

There was an AfD on Elvis's Twin Sister which wound up being kept despite no sources to prove notability. Nobody is claiming the poet is not notable, but there is nothing provided in the AfD nor in the article to prove notability, but attempts at tagging the article for lack of notability keep getting reverted. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

You win some AfDs, you lose some AfDs. If the article was not notable the AfD would have been delete... C'mon just go and annoy someone else?  Francium12  10:48, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
I din't win or lose anything, because I didn't participate in the AfD, I personally have nothing to prove in this discussion, I just want sources. WP:V is a policy. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 17:24, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
The page isn't notable, the sources aren't reliable, and I doubt that Carol Ann Duffy really deserves an article even though she gets one by default for Poet Laureate. The actual poem page is filled with original research and should have been deleted. Just relist it later and maybe some people with sense will remove it. You could just call for a notability clarication and get some standards set up to not allow poems without sufficient appearances in multiple scholarly sources in more than just a mere mention. That would end this nonsense quite simply. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:35, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
I can't help but agree that notability of this poem is tenuous at best. Just because it exists doesn't mean it deserves an article, regardless of who wrote it. --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:30, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

New category Category:Inuit poets

Just a heads-up, ran across a few recognised poets while reading up on Inuit history. I put a note at the top clarifying that qualifying persons must be recognised as original poets, as opposed to the first Inuit who happened to recite a commonly-known verse to a Western anthropologist. Just thought folks might find it an interesting aspect of poetry. The book I cite as source in the articles probably has several other Inuit poets who meet WP:NOTABILITY. MatthewVanitas (talk) 03:38, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Love's Philosophy

An editor has repeatedly changed the penultimate line in this poem from "what is all this kissing worth" to "what is all this sweet work worth". When challenged, the editor cited "The Poems of Percy Byssshe", at page 555--edited by Edmund Blundsen (Collins) and "A Treasury of great Poems", at page 725--edited by Louis Untermeyer (Galahad Books, New York). I don't have immediate access to these volumes, so I suppose it is possible that they contain this alternate line. The advice of other editors would be appreciated. Dlabtot (talk) 14:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Published by Leigh Hunt, "The Indicator", December 22, 1819. Reprinted by Mrs. Shelley, "Posthumous Poems", 1824. Included in the Harvard manuscript book, where it is headed "An Anacreontic", and dated 'January, 1820.' Written by Shelley in a copy of Hunt's "Literary Pocket-Book", 1819, and presented to Sophia Stacey, December 29, 1820. is all this sweet work Stacey manuscript; were these examples Harvard manuscript; are all these kissings 1819, 1824. [2] Dlabtot (talk) 15:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

==comment== the intervention of that editor is regrettable. This is an Encyclopedia not a poetry book. It follows that we are concerned only with facts not aesthetic judgments. From this it follows that the poem should be given exactly as it was first published by Hunt in the Indicator 1819. Later manuscript emendations published posthumously, such as that in the Harvard manuscript, can be given in notes. The full story is given in the link cited on the page but we should do exactly the opposite to what they do when their main example is the Harvard one. Alf Heben

Billy Collins

There seems to be a dispute / edit warring over the inclusion of a former professor as one of the influences of this poet. Your input at Talk:Billy Collins would be appreciated. Regards, decltype (talk) 17:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

A Question

Hello poetry project people, this seemed like as good a place as any to ask this, what ever happened to that Wikipedia poetry project to make the World's Longest Poem? --( fi ) 02:36, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

T.S. Eliot and the BBC poll

Today in my home country, the United Kingdom, is National Poetry Day, and T.S. Eliot has been declared the Nation's Favourite Poet. I have left a message on the talk page for Eliot about this. The article's introduction could do with a clean-up, and perhaps this information could be inserted in the introduction. Many thanks, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

In case you are curious, the Top 5 poets in this poll were:

T.S. Eliot John Donne Benjamin Zephaniah Wilfred Owen Philip Larkin

I think I've been spamming, but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure where to ask this question about external links on poetry pages (till recently I just edited articles and added references) but this seems like a good place to start.

Lately, I've been attempting to improve the articles on various non-Anglophone poets and poems by adding links to translations written by me and published on my blog: http://poemsintranslation.blogspot.com

After a quick look at WP:EL, I realized that what I was doing could constitute spam. Wikipedia policy clearly prohibits blogs and personal websites and, as such, links to my blog are in violation of the letter of the law on WP.

However, my blog does not make me any money (not that I didn't try,) and does not even include any personal information that could suggest my actual identity. So it's not self-promotion in the slightest. Its primary purpose is informational as I explain in this entry. Moreover, WP does encourage users to write their own translations of relevant source content where none is available in the public domain (c.f. WP:OR#Translations), which suggests to me that such links may not be in violation of WP's spirit.

Advice? Suggestions? Szfski (talk) 01:07, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

This matter is being discussed at WP:ELN#Am I spamming WP?. It may be useful to add replies at that location to keep discussions in one place. Johnuniq (talk) 10:21, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Wake up call:)

Hello Friends; I have been busy and have not been paying much attention to the project in recent months, and i can see that our unassessed list has grown quite long in that time. If you have a free moment, knocking out two or three at a time will go a long way towards catching us up. Thanks. Mrathel (talk) 17:07, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Comic verse

I created Comic verse as a redirect to a section in English poetry, a section I think that needs expanding. I created a few other redirects e.g. Comic poetry that then redirect through this. I added a courtesy note on the English poetry article that Comic verse links there. All other redirects go via Comic verse.

But I am not entirely happy with this. There may be a better subject or category explaining comic verse. For example, Sir Arthur Sullivan's libretti in the Savoy Operas were mainly in comic verse. Limericks, double dactyls, McWhirters, clerihews, etc, are all, to my mind comic verse, as are Lear's poetry and Lewis Carroll's (Charles Lutwidge Dodgson).

This needs a bigger expansion and perhaps there is an article that deals with it, but I can't find it. Hence the redirect. If there is a better article, I should be glad to know of it. Griff Rhys Jones edited "The nation's favourite comic poems" and I have plenty of other sources, I will quite happily make an article of it, but I imagine one has already been made but I can't find it.

Best wishes Si Trew (talk) 10:44, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I think an article on Comic Verse would be entirely legitimate, as it is a clearly notable subsection of poetry in general. I have done a few quick searches and have found enough articles to put an article together pretty quickly. However, its not really something I have studied, so I am not sure I am comfortable writing it. It would also make a good category as well, but again I would have to do some research before diving into such an undertaking:) Mrathel (talk) 13:46, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

the Poetry portal template

So I was looking at various articles and there is no standard way/guideline to including a link to the Poetry Portal. Some use the {{Poetry portal}}. Others {{Portal | Poetry}} with some including the little graphic and others not. Is there any consensus to use one over the other, and what the guidelines are? andyzweb (talk) 02:26, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what role, if any, this group plays with the poetry portal, which might explain it. --Midnightdreary (talk) 02:51, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
I am not sure of the portal relationship either. It might be an issue to take up there, as I am sure the question is something they would find more pressing than we. Projects and portals tend to act like stepchildren in a dysfunctional family. :) Mrathel (talk) 13:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
That confusion alone might explain why there hasn't been an effort to link to the portal in a consistent manner. I doubt it's even maintained (anyone know better?). --Midnightdreary (talk) 15:37, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Redirect for Lord Byron under discussion

The redirect Lord Byron currently redirect to George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron, the English Romantic poet. This redirect is under discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion#Lord Byron. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 15:18, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Assessments

I have gone on a spree and have assessed all the articles on the list except for 5, which were either created or expanded by me. We should have a pretty good categorization of our articles at this point, so if you are looking for something to do, check out the stubs and start adding info:). I have noticed since the Coleridge collaboration the project has fallen into a hibernation, and I can see that getting large group to work together is probably less productive than I had hoped:) If anyone has an idea of what we can do individually to help the project, however, I would love to hear it. Cheers Mrathel (talk) 18:29, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

The Havisham article contains a full copy of the poem. According to the article, it was only written in 1998, so I was wondering what the copyright status on it was, and how to find out. Jhbuk (talk) 19:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

It's definitely in copyright still. It should be removed ASAP! --Midnightdreary (talk) 19:30, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Anna Mendelssohn / Grace Lake

I'm afraid I know very little about poetry, so I would be grateful if project members could give a look over the article on Anna Mendelssohn (the poet sometimes published under the name Grace Lake) which I've just written. If there is more to be written about her poetry it would be good because this part of her life is probably more interesting than the events of 1971-2 which are better documented and so dominate the article. Sam Blacketer (talk) 23:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Capitalisation regarding poems

Where the first line of a poem - in this role, uncapitalised - also serves as its title, such as I wandered lonely as a cloud and many others, should it be capitalised? My own feeling was probably not, not least since they normally form a clause structure sufficiently complex that it would not be capitalised even if it had been the official title. - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 20:32, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:47, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Shelley

Please have a look at this "short course" on P.B. Shelley, which has been prepared at Wikiversity by User:Ottava Rima, who is an admin there but a currently banned user here, as most of you will know. Ottava contacted me about seeing if we can transfer some of this material to Wikipedia. Per WP:CSD#G5, it wouldn't be appropriate to just copy it over; if we're going to have these pages on Wikipedia, then there needs to be some kind of community assent and community vetting of the material. I'm only an occasional reader of Shelley, so I'm in no position to judge the value of the material. The sources I've checked are not available online (except via previews at Google Books), which makes it hard for me to verify things, but maybe some of you have the printed sources. - Dank (push to talk) 00:12, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 3#Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Fringe science amended. If one to three editors are willing to accept responsibility for the material imported, it would be worth it for them to file an amendment request with ArbCom asking for permission to import appropriate portions of material from Ottava Rima's Wikiversity courses. As individually offered advice, include a clear conveyance of what standards will be used in choosing material to import, including how material appropriate for Wikiversity but inappropriate for Wikipedia will be distinguished. It's worth a try and it would clear up any uncertainty about material authored by a banned editor or proxying for the editor in this circumstance. Vassyana (talk) 02:48, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Sure thing; next step is to see if we get some response here, since this seems like the likely wikiproject to work with (and the one Ottava suggested). - Dank (push to talk) 03:23, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I would be willing to vouch and help as far as I can, having worked with Ottava on a number of articles. Ceoil sláinte 16:02, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm willing to make the occasional library trip, but I don't know bupkis about poetry except how much I dislike most of it--Tznkai (talk) 19:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Okay, I understand there's one more person coming who's knowledgeable and willing to help. I don't know the material or have the sources, so I'm out of my league here, but I'll be willing to copyedit if someone points me in the right direction. - Dank (push to talk) 21:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd support this but due to being busy am unable to help.  GARDEN  22:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm mostly useless these days, being busy etc. for at least a couple weeks if not longer... But perhaps I can putter around a bit on the edges of things, and try to chip in a modicum of help. • Ling.Nut 05:58, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
I have none of the sources listed in that course but I can vouch for Ottava's honesty and integrity. He seems very knowledgeable on literature of this type and I'd have no hesitation in supporting any copying of material. Parrot of Doom 11:01, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Ditto above comments. No reason not to perform this move; Ottava's content contributions have always been top-notch. --Andy Walsh (talk) 21:37, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Consider this with the caveat that poetry is not a topic I relate to, but I have never had any problems with the content Ottava Rima added to Wikipedia. --Moni3 (talk) 23:29, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I have been in some offline discussions with Ottava Rima about this. I was offering supporting material as fits in with Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles, subproject Dictionary of National Biography, where I'm active already. This is in effect a fairly comprehensive fact-checking resource, complementary to modern critical literature. I feel this could all work, with a piecemeal approach. I'm not really up to speed with what is already posted on Shelley, but having seem plenty of Ottava Rima's work when we were both working on Milton topics, I don't think problems of integration would prove insurmountable. Charles Matthews (talk) 19:43, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed with Andy. To the extent of my knowledge, Ottava's content was never the issue; it was his temperament and/or comments which brought conflict upon him. I don't know anything about poetry, but I'd be willing to vouch for it if necessary. —Ed (talk • majestic titan) 20:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Ottava asked me to take a peek, here. I don't have time at present to review the material, but if the quality is good and somebody's willing to vouch for it, why not? If there's drama involved, people blindly copying everything, or other shenanigans, that's one thing, but good content is good content, and assuming that's what we're getting here I don't see why we're turn it down. – Luna Santin (talk) 19:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people

List of cleanup articles for your project

If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here

Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip

Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip

Ikip 02:14, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people

Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, nearly all wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:

  1. supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
  2. opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced BLP articles if they are not sourced, so your project may want to source these articles as soon as possible. See the next, message, which may help.

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people

List of cleanup articles for your project

If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here

Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip

Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip

Ikip 02:24, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

James Michie

Is there not an article on this author of "Dooley is a Traitor"? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

To arms! To arms!

Category:Poetasters is proposed for deletion!
 Object or support -- voice your view 'ere completion!
 Shall Wikipedia ignore the profound connections among all
 The glorious rhymsters like William McGonagall,
 McIntyre, Moore, McKittrick Ros,
 Or J. Gordon Coogler (some might think it a loss),
 But others [to comply with WP:CANVASS provisions],
 Might deem this deletion a darn good decision.
 Decide for yourself, and (here [3]) make your views known,
 On the category for poets for badness renowned!
 -- JohnWBarber (talk) 17:52, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for raising the issue - and in such style! -- BlackMarlin (talk) 18:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Possible attempt at paid editing

Please see this link for more information. I'm not sure what the current rules are regarding paid editing, but it's probably a good idea to keep an eye out for articles about Pakistani/Urdu poets that may be the result of paid editing and make sure they follow the rules of factuality and neutrality. - 131.211.210.182 (talk) 09:09, 3 February 2010 (UTC) (User:Mgm, too lazy to log in)

Romanticism and Revolution at AfD

Please offer opinions at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Romanticism and Revolution. -- Banjeboi 15:25, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

tables versus bulleted lists

I am growing concerned at seeing meretricious, overly complicated tables taking the place of bulleted lists in reference to an author's work. See examples at Marcel Proust and Elizabeth Barrett Browning. I have opined on Elizabeth's talk page and no one has responded there so I am bringing this issue here. I prefer seeing an author's work presented in the form of a bulleted list as in Elizabeth F. Ellet and as described in MOS:WORKS. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? - Josette (talk) 18:38, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

See Washington Irving's list of works or Bibliography of Edgar Allan Poe. I don't really have a problem with it but, then again, I'm not necessarily advocating it either. --Midnightdreary (talk) 04:24, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Milton's "Heavenly muse": Ghost or Satan? You decide!

Was Milton's muse the Holy Spirit? DId Milton have a Ghost writer? Was Milton inspired by Satan during the night? Please join the discussion here ;-) Paul August ☎ 14:20, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Acrostic

Acrostic now contains acrostic. Polishing invited. -- SEWilco (talk) 03:58, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Request help with this template

See Template:17th Century Scholasticism

1. Is this correct? Were the Metaphysical poets (at least the ones that were Anglican priests) part of Anglican scholastic theology? I am of the impression, given their use of argument and abstraction, that they came from a scholastic background, such as neo-Aristotelianism or Platonism. However, I am not very familar with this subject. Please correct me if the Metaphysical poets are not a good fit for this template. Thanks.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 02:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Dave Morice

Anyone want to have a crack at cleaning up Dave Morice? Rd232 talk 10:56, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Oxford Professor of Poetry

Here we go again. I have been working on the list, dealing with the eighteenth century where there were some not-too-notable gaps. Is anyone ready with the John Jones who was Professor from 1978 to 1983, to fill the remaining blank? Charles Matthews (talk) 10:26, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

So he is a critic, not a poet; born 1924 as far as I can tell, has written books on Wordsworth, Dostoyevsky, Shakespeare. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:53, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thomas L. Vaultonburg

Please look in on Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Thomas_L._Vaultonburg.

The author - auto-biographical - thinks that the references show notability; "I am confident if people who have this expertise see it they will be able to tell you these publication credits are pretty substantial."

They wrote, if you want to claim it's not noteworthy do me the small honor of checking your facts first. Go see what percentage of submissions a publication like Exquisite Corpse or Caliban or Karamu published, or who else appears in those periodicals

-that was in a {{helpme}} request, hence my asking here, for others to consider the sourcing. Many thanks,  Chzz  ►  04:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


Kubla Khan and Ode: Intimations of Immortality

Please reassess Kubla Khan and Ode: Intimations of Immortality, both of which have been hugely expanded. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  04:11, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Deletion discussion for Category:Poetasters

Category:Poetasters has been nominated for deletion (the seven days will run out at 21:13 on August 1). The discussion is here. This discussion may be of interest to anybody interested in poetry. Please take a look at it and consider helping us come to a decision on whether or not to keep the category. -- JohnWBarber (talk) 15:44, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I didn't know where to turn, so...

OK, guys my name is Max, and I write on Wikipedia years now. I noticed something rather serious, which probably would've be better If I discussed on the Literature Project, but I noticed that that project is kinda deserted.

Literature is simply everything written, so for example Gray's Anatomy is part of literature, but a kind of a professional literature. So books, from Homer's Iliad to J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter are all part of the "readable literature" or part of the "artistic literature". So my point is, that artistic literature long time ago was divided on epic, lyric, and drama. In Ancient Greece and Rome, everything was in verse, not prose, so epic poetry were stories about heroes and stuff but in verse, lyric were song about love and feelings and drama were stories written to be performed on stage but in verse. So, billions of years this classification was the main one. Today is a bit abandoned, but still existible.

I am saying this because your articles doesn't cover this. The Drama article is mainly about Shakespearean dramas and stuff. About modern theater, and the Epic article is all about poetry, and John Milton is given as an example, and finally the Lyric article is about love songs and Renaissance writers. So I am saying that the this three articles should be re-written (Lyric, Epic, the Drama is not that bad (in this point of view, otherwise its one of the best articles)). Also the literature article is bad one. And these are fundamental. So please read this and consider my advice. I only mean good, I didn't mean to offend you or anything. I will help as much I can. If I wrong at any point please tell me. Greeting and I wait a response. ---Max(talk) 14:14, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Elizabeth Barrett Browning's in a mess

Hi all, the Elizabeth Barrett Browning article is in a bad state - in need of major overhaul. I hope to work on it soon - but any help is very welcome, especially from people who know about her life and work. For now I hope to get it up to a basic standard of readability and objectivity. Thanks muchly. Spanglej (talk) 15:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Infobox

I was wonderign if ther eis an infobox for poems? if not then should be. I was about to create an article on a poem (Ode to War) and couldnt fidn an infobox.Lihaas (talk) 06:22, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

The infobox is only optional, but here it is: Template:Infobox poem. All the templates used by the Poetry Project are right on the Project page in a neat little box. --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)


GUNGA DIN

The Gunga Din page is currently in an editorial war as to whether or not the full text should appear in the article. now is the time for all good Poets to come to the aid of their Page. Geeperzcreeperz (talk) 23:36, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

New article - Clere Parsons

I've made a new stub about Clere Parsons, would very much appreciate any help in expanding and improving it. DuncanHill (talk) 01:20, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Poetry articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Poetry articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:29, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I've been reviewing the comments here. I think there may have been a misunderstanding of the list - because so many poetry articles were picked, the link gave only a partial showing, and you had to click to see later pages. An alternative view is this one, where all articles selected for V0.8 show a diamond down the right hand side. You will see that all the proposed additions were already well and truly included with very high scores.
I'm very reluctant to omit major articles such as the Brownings and Neruda, which cover such important people in poetry. This problem is seen in all areas; the selection is going to include thousands of Start-Class articles on major topics. This decision was made when we did our first test release - otherwise we would have been omitting certain countries of the world, etc. In other words, we don't want to exclude an article that will be "noticeable by its absence". I've looked at the articles mentioned, and although these could all use a bit of work, none of them would embarrass the project. Five years ago, some might have made WP:FAC! The only one I could see omitting on quality would be Nikos Kazantzakis, but seeing that he is listed as High-Importance for so many projects it is pretty much impossible. The Greek WikiProject is unlikely to want to exclude "arguably the most important and most translated Greek writer and philosopher of the 20th century." Therefore all I can do is to request that the four weak-but-important articles be cleaned up, at least for their poetry content!
Thanks a lot for looking into this, and please feel free to comment further here or on the 0.8 page. Walkerma (talk) 03:06, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

New article with wrong title?

I am a new page patroller, and poetry is not my expertise; can someone take a look at Talk:There is a pain — so utter — and fix this article if necessary? — Timneu22 · talk 12:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Biography: Valery Nikolaevsky (Valerij Nikolaevskij) needs expert attention

Hi,

This article is currently in the article incubator, here: [[4]]. It had been nominated for deletion and deleted, after which I requested it to be restored and time given so that more sources could be found. It was claimed he is not notable??. As I don't know the Russian language I cannot really do a lot more than what I have already done other than ask that someone familiar with this writer/poet help to improve the page and establish notability better. That was my intention in rescuing it - to allow someone with more expert knowledge and access to sources not available online to improve it. Articles do not usually stay in the incubator for more than a month. If anyone has information, access to offline reliable sources (newspapers, books etc) on this writer please help to improve the article. If searching on Google use "Valerij Nikolaevskij" spelling as this brings up more results, these for instance [[5]]. 62.254.133.139 (talk) 15:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
There are few links about that person on Russian language. All info exist on the Page. --Averaver (talk) 01:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

To Autumn listed for Featured Article review

I have started a Featured Article review on To Autumn due to significant recent instability issues and content disputes. See Wikipedia:Featured article review/To Autumn/archive1 and please comment. Regards, –MuZemike 01:08, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

New article on Gary Miranda

I've started a new article on Gary Miranda - all comments appreciated. Thanks! --Thelema12 (talk) 23:23, 14 October 2010 (UTC) edited link - now in article-space --Thelema12 (talk) 19:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Listing poets work included in Anthologies.

Hi, I am wondering about your views about listing poets' contributions to anthologies as part of their own bibliographical 'works' section. Thanks. Span (talk) 20:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Conceptual Poetry

Does anyone think we should have an article on Conceptual Poetry? Should I start one? Or should the title be Conceptual Poets, or Conceptual Writing? (I'm thinking of people like Kenneth Goldsmith and Craig Dworkin.) Thoughts?--Thelema12 (talk) 00:27, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Please view and comment my proposals about the Category:Poets

Please view and comment my proposals about the Category:Poets :

Splitting the category years in poetry

I have begun the process of splitting this overlarge category by adding sub-categories for the 1000s and 1100s. Hope this helps Jpjacobs.00 (talk) 20:49, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Please view and comment my proposal about the Category:Poets :

Please view and comment my proposal about the Category:Poets :

Merge Anacreon and Anacreontea?

See Talk: Anacreontea and offer opinions thanks. McZeus (talk) 00:16, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Change upper category for the Category:Poetry by author

Proposal: Change upper category for the Category:Poetry by author from the Category:Poems to Category:Poetry. --Averaver (talk) 15:26, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Support. --Midnightdreary (talk) 19:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Proposal closed. In that category the "Poetry" word means "Poems". See next theme. --Averaver (talk) 01:20, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Rename the Category:Poetry by author to Category:Poems by author

Proposal: Rename the Category:Poetry by author category to Category:Poems by author. --Averaver (talk) 01:21, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Rhyme scheme notation

There appears to be no coherent Wikipedia style for notating rhyme scheme. The article Sicilian octave tells the reader its rhyme scheme is "A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B" (hyphens) while Limerick (poetry) says "aabba" (lower case and no separation). The article Rhyme scheme uses commas sometimes, and otherwise uses unseparated letters to signify a stanza and a space between stanzas: Cinquain is "A,B,A,B,B" and Shakespearean sonnet is "ABAB CDCD EFEF GG". In the Chicago Manual of Style, 15th edition (2003), the poetry rhyme scheme is described as lower case letters separated only by stanza, making Shakespearean sonnet into "abab cdcd efef gg".

Whatever the consensus turns out to be, let's put this into the style page. Binksternet (talk) 01:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

This is a good topic of discussion. I'm okay with whatever style, so long as it is consistent. The Chicago Manual of Style seems to give us a good pattern to follow so I'll agree with that one. --Midnightdreary (talk) 14:44, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Important missing articles

Could some of you take a look at the missing articles listed at Wikipedia:Stanford Archive answers. There's some really important poetry articles that we're missing that could use creation. Here's just a few forehead-slappers:

There's dozens of other poetry red links there that could use creation, and I could use any help I can get. Raul654 (talk) 04:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, you said "any help" so I created a stub for "The Negro Speaks of Rivers". That's as far as I got! --Midnightdreary (talk) 14:42, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
That's a good start [but I've just added three more forehead-slappers :) ] Raul654 (talk) 02:56, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Notability of poet Harry Smith?

I would be grateful if someone could be kind enough to take a look at the article on poet Harry Smith. This was a long-term unreferenced biography of a living person (created in 2006, tagged in June 2009). On the face of it, I have my doubts as to whether the subject meets WP:GNG, but this is not my area of expertise. I have added one review of a collection as a ref to take it out of the UBLP category but that's really not enough. More info on the article Talk page.--Plad2 (talk) 07:44, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Looking for a poem: You Jiangu - 520 AD

Hi, I'm looking for the text of a poem that is mentioned in the candle clock article by You Jiangu in 520AD. I can't even find any reference to You Jiangu outside of this article, or copies of it. Can anyone help?Keepstherainoff (talk) 16:36, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Samuel Butler (poet)

I have tagged this article as a copy-paste job. Just a heads-up. Talk:Samuel Butler (poet)Cliff (talk) 19:23, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

James Whitcomb Riley

Hello, I am working on the article James Whitcomb Riley, the most prominent American poet during the 1890s-1910s. I was wondering if someone would be so kind as to read it and let me know what you think, if perhaps its missing something. Thanks —Charles Edward (Talk | Contribs) 18:00, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Poetical improvisation

Where's the stuff about poetical improvisation? I can't find it. Here's what I wrote at Talk:Poetry slam a few days ago: "So, this article is about the recent phenomenon of slam poetry in the English-speaking world, and very interesting. Presumably somewhere else there is a much more comprehensive article about the many ancient but often still living traditions of poetical improvisation in other countries of the world, the "canto a braccio" or "improvvisazione in ottava rima" or "stornelli" in various parts of Italy, Basque Bertsolaritza, the "għana" of Malta, or for that matter the extemporised poetry of the court of Haroun Ar-Rashid or of the Norman rulers of Sicily. But I can't find it; Poetical improvisation contest redirects to a few lines in the Improvisation article. Since "slam" seems to have recently come to be the general English word for this type of extemporisation, maybe some links could be included here, perhaps in the See also section?". Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:07, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

You may have to write the article. Span (talk) 12:37, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Formatting

When you list the work that the poem is from do you put that in tialics? Also for the infobox, that would be lsited as the series right? (Lihaas (talk) 03:37, 25 May 2011 (UTC)).

The poem itself is written in quotes: e.g. "Pied Beauty". The collection/book is listed in Italics e.g. White Egrets. I'm not sure what you mean as "the series" for the info box. Span (talk) 04:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
In the infobox for poems there is a tab that says "series" im not sure what that means.(Lihaas (talk) 20:10, 25 May 2011 (UTC)).
Ah. Not all the tabs in the infobox will be appropriate for each article. The novel Fellowship of the Ring would be marked as part of The Lord of the Rings series. For most poetry it probably isn't used. Hope that helps. Span (talk) 22:09, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Names of Standard Habbie / Burns stanza

I propose that the article be title "Standard Habbie" (turn round the redirect). Please discuss at Talk:Burns_stanza#Name. --Philcha (talk) 13:14, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Reorganizing articles on quantitative meters: iambic/trochaic

If you're interested in this subject, have a look at the proposal at the bottom of User talk:Wareh (also musings at User talk:McCronion). In short my idea is (1) to rename trochaic septenarius as trochaic verse (quantitative) & to move the section iambic trimeter#Greek to iambic verse (quantitative), (2) to follow the German Wikipedia example so that the actual articles on the feet iamb & trochee are very short, whereas most of the content would go under the name trochaic verse (accentual-syllabic) and iambic verse (accentual-syllabic). Wareh (talk) 19:10, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Table floating a distance from the left

I'm drafting an article on a poem in a dialect of English. The actual poem will be a column down the left. Readers not acquainted with the dialect will need a glossary, which I would like to: be vertically on the same level as the text and about 10em to the right of the text, not right-aligned; formatted as a table, so that each entry is a row and there is a title "Glossary" at the top of the table. Can any one help me? --Philcha (talk) 19:44, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

You've probably done this by now. But just in case you haven't, here's a sketch of an idea:

Tennyson's Ode to a Whale
There's nothing makes a Greenland whale,      
   Feel half so high and mighty,
etc., etc.
Glossary
Greenland isn't really green   
more comment
etc.

Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:54, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

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