Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Germany task force/Archive 3

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This page is an Archive of the discussions from German football task force talk page (Discussion page). (January 2010 - December 2010) - Please Do not edit!

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:19, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

1952-53 FDGB-Pokal

Already asked over there, but maybe you guys have some more input. I'm currently in the process of adding a few more seasons of East Germany's FDGB-Pokal and as I was doing the 1953-54 FDGB-Pokal, I realized that it was a continuation of the 1952-53 season. The competition in 1953 was abandoned in June due to the Uprising of 1953 in East Germany. Question is: Should I include those matches played in 1952-53 on the 1953-54 page or put them separately on a 1952-53 page that then only includes two qualifying rounds and the first round proper? What do you think? To clarify: The 1953-54 competition started with those teams that had won their matches in the 1952-53 season First round proper. As of now, I have just added the rounds that were actually played in the 1953-54 season, but we all know wikipedia is editable, so ;-) Madcynic (talk) 16:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I see no reason not to have a separate page for the 1952-53 competition. It was never finished, true, but it was supposed to be a separate season just like any other. Just make sure that what happend is very clear from the intro and when in doubt be rather too generous with links to that one. OdinFK (talk) 08:32, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Done. Weak on sources as usual, I just don't have a lot of English-language stuff on East German footie, but there are sources nevertheless. Madcynic (talk) 15:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Sports Notability

There is discussion ongoing at Wikipedia_talk:BIO#RFC:_WP:Athlete_Professional_Clause_Needs_Improvement debating possible changes to the WP:ATHLETE notability guideline. As a result, some have suggested using WP:NSPORT as an eventual replacement for WP:ATHLETE. Editing has begun at WP:NSPORT, please participate to help refine the notability guideline for the sports covered by this wikiproject. —Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 03:31, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Munich Special projects Division

WikiProject Munich will be hosting a Special project on the FIFA World Cup. Kingjeff (talk) 02:35, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

List AfD

Please note Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of football players with domestic, continental and world titles re List of football players with domestic, continental and world titles. Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this. Ben MacDui 17:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Fellow members, are you still alive and kicking? ;-)

Ummm... hello, anybody home? I'm just asking because there was not much communication on here over the last couple of months... Hopefully, the reason for this is that there were no important questions during this time, otherwise a neutral viewer might assume that this project has gone... dead. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 09:32, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Summer's over now, so I have some time on my hands again and have started back at it. Wiggy! (talk) 23:22, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Rudolf-Harbig-Stadion split?

I have suggested on the talk page of above-mentioned article that it be split in two as the current incarnation of the stadium is a completely new ground, and it is confusing for the reader (even if the article were to be improved) to read one article on two distinctly different stadia. The move would make the treatment similar to what was done with New Wembley. However, I have not received any feedback on the talk page and am thus asking for input here. Any opinions? Please note that I cannot do this myself due to time limitations (and the stadium of my fave team's rival is somewhat out of my area ;-) ). --Madcynic (talk) 12:28, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm not at all farmiliar with this particular case, but if there are two distinct stadia, they should have seperate articles, even if they have the same name, with the year each stadium was built being the obvious disambigutor. Sir Sputnik (talk) 18:12, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Notability of pre-Bundesliga players

Is there any sort of guideline as to which players are considered notable, whose careers were before the formation of the Bundesliga? Given that there were no fully-professional leagues, the only players that would seem to satisfy the normal criteria are those who played for the national team. Would appearing in the "Endrunde" of the national championship, for example, not be sufficient? J Mo 101 (talk) 21:03, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Under the current notability guidelines, pre-bundesliga players are only notable if they played for the national team, or if they meet WP:GNG. Before WP:NSPORT was introduced, there was a guideline that said pre-proleague era footballers were notable if they played at the highest domestic level, but that seems to have been removed. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:13, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I brought up this question at our mother project. For responses, see WT:FOOTY#Pre-professional era footballers. Sir Sputnik (talk) 17:30, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

National apps in infoboxes

What is the consensus for representing appearances for the national team in the infobox for players who represented the DFB both before and after reunification? Should appearances West Germany and Germany be listed together or seperately? If together, should the team name be Germany, West Germany, or something like West Germany/Germany that indicates both names? Thanks. Sir Sputnik (talk) 18:42, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Listing international caps together makes sense considering West Germany's national team page is redirected to the unified team. As for the naming of the team, I'm not sure there is a consensus - I see a mixture of all the uses, and it's an issue not just limited to German footballers (eg. Dejan Stanković, Siniša Mihajlović). J Mo 101 (talk) 15:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Separate for East Germans who then went on to play for the post-reunification German team, jointly for West Germans. Madcynic (talk) 18:44, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Loaned player sent out on loan?

I was looking at one of Mainz's players - Dragan Georgiev, and he is on loan to them from a club in Macedonia. But the article goes on to say that he was loaned out to Paderborn (by Mainz, confirmed here), which doesn't seem to make any sense. Am I missing something or is this something unique to the Bundesliga? J Mo 101 (talk) 13:57, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The first appendix to the yearly special edition of kicker confirms the transfer as well. I would say these kind of successive loans are not unique for the Bundesliga, however I cannot exactly determine why they are legal within the transfer rules. Perhaps somebody at WT:FOOTY might be be able to enlighten us. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 15:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

For your information, I raised the question here. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 16:38, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Another Regionalliga reform!

And yet another reform of the Regionalliga, from 2012-13! It will be five regional leagues then, according to a DFB decision yesterday. There will be a Nord, Nordost, West, Suedwest and a Bayern Regionalliga, with a promotion round to the 3rd Liga, consisting of the five champions and the Suedwest runners-up. Lets see how long this one will last! Calistemon (talk) 03:54, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

It wouldn't be German football if it wasn't being re-organized. Again. Wiggy! (talk) 14:12, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

For clarification: The Nord and Nordost division will comprise the same territory as their 1994 counterparts, the West division will be made up of clubs from North Rhine-Westphalia only; Bayern will effictively see its current Oberliga promoted a level within the football pyramid and the remaining territories will form the new Süd/Südwest division. It's a better compromise than the current solution, but the divisional alignment certainly could have been worked out better. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 10:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Not to turn this into a discussion on the merits of the reform, but as long as the promotion rules are not finalised, I'd reserve judgment. I don't think that having three spots for five divisions is any better than what we have now. Typical example of professional football making sure nobody intrudes... Madcynic (talk) 09:14, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Dynamo Dresden templates

Has anybody had a look at the Dynamo Dresden article lately? Looks to me like it currently holds the Wikipedia record for the most maintenance templates in one article! Surely thats ridicoulos! Calistemon (talk) 13:43, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

These templates were all added by an overzealous IP. I've taken the liberty of removing those that were inaccurate or redundant. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:58, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

They'll most likely be back soon, as at least two other users (including myself) have attempted to tackle this issue, only to have their changes reverted. Madcynic (talk) 18:26, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

It may pay for more people to put the article on their watch list to keep an eye on it. I think, we dealing with Kay Korner from Dresden here. Wiggy knows all about him, too. He is very persistent, and annoying but has been quiet of late. Calistemon (talk) 23:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

While this may be true, I doubt that, based on what the IP does - acknowledging that the article needs drastic improvement, the exact opposite of what Kay Körner used to do. Also the IP is from Erfurt, according to geolocation.

Generally, the only way to effectively deal with that is to improve the article, but I doubt anyone is willing/has time to do that. Madcynic (talk) 09:10, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

What made me think it is Kay was that the IP's first edit was on SV Dynamo, but I could be on the wrong track here. Calistemon (talk) 14:01, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm also thinking its Kay. There is a string of edits tied to anything Dynamo by a mittful of IPs. Kay, in his current incarnation as User:Saruha has been blocked again after trying to duke it out with the image police. His response looks to be another characteristic fit of pique. Wiggy! (talk) 14:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

This has given me the impetus I needed to rewrite the article, although it remains a work in progress, there's still a lot to be done. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 23:36, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Good luck with it! Wiggy! (talk) 23:39, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Very well executed, I must say. Let's see if it stays in that version now... Madcynic (talk) 16:01, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Rudolf-Harbig-Stadion may be a lost cause, though. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 20:41, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

1. FC Kaiserslautern shirt sponsors

Based on pictures found here, it appears that in their last match, 1. FC Kaiserslautern appeared in unsponsored shirts. Does any one know why, or anything else about it? Thanks. Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:41, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

It was a one-off occurrance in honor of Fritz Walter, who would have had his 90th birthday today. See also here for details. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 08:28, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Team chef?

The article about Edmund Becker states that he is the team chef. Of course, in English this means that he is the team's cook. I was wondering if someone could come with a more appropriate translation? Thanks. Sir Sputnik (talk) 20:34, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Head of Youth, something like that. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 20:40, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

"Head coach" of the youth team. J Mo 101 (talk) 20:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Just try to find out how Franz Beckenbauer was referred to during his tenure as German national team "teamchef" by the English media... --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 20:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, the term "Teamchef" is pretty close to the English definition of Manager, so you can normally say that, but Becker's role is different, he heads up the youth setup. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 21:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah okay. His position might then likely be described as "head coach/administrative of the Karlsruher SC youth academy" or something like that. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 21:16, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

"Head coach and administrator of the Karlsruher SC youth academy" is probably as clear as it is going to get assuming that he is coaching the team and also has some other broader administrative duties associated with the Youth-Centrum that are outside of or somehow peripherally related to coaching the youth squad. Chef doesn't work for a non-European reader I'm thinking. Wiggy! (talk) 21:55, 15 November 2010 (UTC)