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Extinct Dog Breeds

The Old English Bulldog discussion above brings up and interesting problem. What is an extinct dog breed? Does it require that all members of the "breed" fail to produce offspring? What if the dog is bred for a different purpose as the Fox Terrier was. Is the Old Fox Terrier extinct as there are no longer working registered Fox Terriers as a result of selctive breeding for a larger dog? Or are they just called Jack Russells now? What about claims of extinct breeds from times before there were breed registries? At that time there was no requirement that dogs be of the same "breed" for breeding, you just put together the dogs that you had that did the work. If the dogs that make up the "old english bulldog" were used to make today's pit bull did that dog go extinct or just change? Or just become an unpopular breed name? What defines a breed? appearance? work? Temperment?

When breed registries came to be in the late 1800's there was a strong incentive to create noble and ancient histories for the dog breed to be recognized. These claims were possible because they were unverifiable. Are these sources now to be considered reliable for encyclopedic purposes? Is old and unverifiable better than new and unverifiable when it comes to sources?

I suggest that we need to maintain a skeptical eye when it comes to breeds that went "extinct" before the advent of written pedigree records (largely in the 20th century).--Counsel 17:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Again

Tamaskan Dog is back; please see Talk:Tamaskan Dog. So is this the 3rd time? Keesiewonder talk 10:51, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Since Tamaskan Dog pops up every couple of months, would it be appropriate to creat an article called Tamaskan Dog (hoax) or Tamaskan Dog (sales propaganda) and redirect content and discussions there or would that be opneing a can of worms?LiPollis 05:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Movies, Cartoons, TV Programmes,Comics

I Looked Through 80% Of The First Page Of Stubs, And Noticed That A LOT Of Them Are Movies, TV Programmes, Movies Or Comics e.t.c.

Please Can We Delete Them, Or Do Something Different With Them, As They Arent DOG Articles.

Thanks, Damon! ACBestMy Contributions 20:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

We always used to count articles about fictional dogs as being *also* in the dog project scope--that is, in addition to movies or cartoons or whatever other scope they belonged in. They all are--or should be--members of Category:Fictional dogs which, incidentally, is a list that looks like it needs more subcategorizing if possible. Look also under Category:Dogs in popular culture, which has subcategory Category:Films about dogs (because not all films about dogs are about fictional dogs... this alwasy was complicated trying to sort them out). Anyway, I could see a different flag for those, maybe category fictional dog stubs? Elf | Talk 05:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, But can we give them a rating of NA or Movie Stub or something like that? ACBestMy Contributions 08:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It's really not helpful to tag articles on fictional dogs or something loosely related to dogs, especially when there is another project covering that article. Tagging shouldn't be about categorizing. It defeats the purpose of having a specific scope of articles by deleting the focus. -- Ned Scott 20:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, thank you. That's what i said, when someone from your project tagged all Werewolf articles, possibly using a bot so so. I'd be very glad if you could manage to change your scope without reorganising the category system. :-) Heinrich k 21:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I am on as a contributer to this, real dogs, animation, movie, etc. As a former dog owner and dog lover I like all kinds. Currently have been adding some into the correct heading-next I need to add links and pages as needed to my additions and whatever I can find on the others. As the dedication of Lady and the Tramp states the movie "is dedicated to all who own a dog, ever did, would like to, etc." (something like that) There could be whole additions within the category, there are so many, Disney alone could be one.Kidsheaven 03:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

List of famous dogs

I've been doing my best little by little to add to this list, alphabetize the sections and then link up with existing articles. It's turning into fairly good list. It would be nice if others would take a peek. I'd be happy to add some articles on dogs who aren't yet represented by who are notable. I added an entry to the list on Lava, the dog rescued from Iraq and subject of a besteller From Iraq, With Love but haven't had time to create an article on him. Anyone wishing to do so, feel free. Speaking of dogs who are the subjects of bestellers, Marley, the subject of Marley & Me doesn't have his own entry which is fine, but the article on the book is godawful mess. Anyone who's read the book could help wikify it. Thanks.Lisapollison 08:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Good work. Elf | Talk 05:49, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks but other editors have recently spruced that list up quite a bit. it's noiw much more than a list with a sentence or so on each dog's claim to fame. Anyone who hasn't looked at it in a couple of months might want to take a look. it's really shaped up beautifully! LiPollis 21:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Polish Hound's pictures

On Polish Hound discussion page I found that you are in need of pictures of those breed.

First, there is pl:Ogar polski entry with some pictures. There are also pictures on commons:Ogar Polski. Pictures are licensed as GFDL or CC.

If it is not sufficient for you I have some photos of Polish Hound puppy (2-4 months). But you should know I am a poor photographer. Although those pictures quality is sufficient for family album it could be not good enough for Wikipedia. If you have some spare time please look at this page. I am owner of all those pictures. If you find some of them worth placing here feel free to do it or let me know and I will upload them.

Arturcz 15:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


questionable article; not sure how to proceed

I’m very concerned about the article “Dog hybrids and crossbreeds” which says that crossbreeds are hybrids. Technically, the only animals that should be called dog hybrids are wolfdogs and coydogs. This article entry, by calling puggles, labradoodles and the like “hybrids” feeds into the advertising of so many backyard-breeders and puppy mills who produce these dogs solely for profit.

I noticed that the only reference for this article is a dictionary. I’ve never edited an article before, but I could certainly find much more reputable sources to create an article explaining why these dogs are not hybrids and also explaining the politics surrounding the “designer” dogs. I’ve never edited an article on here before, I’m really not sure if basically removing the existing article and putting other article in its place is an acceptable practice. Rossiebug 05:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)rossiebug

I would try modifying the existing text first. The article is inaccurate in calling dog "hybrids" intraspecific hybrids, as technically a breed of dog isn't a subspecies (the domestic dog is a subspecies of the wolf to begin with, and I've never heard of a sub-subspecies), so technically they could even be called mutts if you used the term in a broad sort of way. I might even move the article to simply "dog crossbreeds". If the article is too bad to be readily fixable, go ahead and change it. If the changes you're attempting are fairly major (changing the explaination of the term, for example), you might want to discuss the changes on that article's talk page. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) (The Game) 12:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Maera

Hi,

There is an article on Marea (http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Marea) that should be deleted. The dog's name is Maera (belonging to Icarius in Greek mythology) and an article also exists for Maera. Marea is just a typo and is, in fact, the same dog and should probably be removed.

Thanks

Rob

Could someone familiar with the standards for external links for dog articles please take a look at Bichon Frisé? It has been link spammed some lately and while the most blatant violators of WP:EL have been removed, I do not normally edit dog articles and was not sure about including some of the other links. Thanks in advance for any help, Ruhrfisch 14:19, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

ticks

With the help of two other editors, I was able to include two new and helpful photos of dog ticks in the article on ticks. One is a comparison photo of an engorged female dog tick with a male dog tick and the other is of an engorged female dog tick still attached to its host. please take a look if you need a photo reference to see what these ticks look like in both states.LiPollis 05:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Scopes of WikiProjects

I thought I should give notice here, since I've given this WikiProject as an example of scoping I feel has gone off track. See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject reform#The scope. -- Ned Scott 00:44, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

On AFD: Minor dog crossbreeds

I've opened an AfD for a number of crossbreed stubs: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Minor dog crossbreeds. I'd appreciate the participation of this WikiProject. Zetawoof(ζ) 21:36, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject for veterinary medicine

We are looking for participants in a new wikiproject for veterinary medicine, in order to improve existing articles and create new ones. If you are interested, please sign up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals. I know this was mentioned here a few months ago, but I thought I'd bring it up again. -Joelmills 23:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup needed of photos and galleries

I just finished an image cleanup of the Siberian husky page per What Wikipedia is not. It seems it and other dog breed pages have become image galleries for user's pets. I will be trying to look for other pages that need help and would appreciate some support from the project. What I'm aiming for in image content are 3-5 images that specifically highlight the adjacent text, as well as removing repetitious images from galleries. The amount of images will of course corellate to the amount of text in the articles. Thanks! VanTucky 18:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

A valuable point. I'd actually suggest that image galleries should not be used in dog breed articles - they often end up serving as a dumping ground for images that don't have any purpose in the article, just as "Trivia" sections end up serving as repositories for unrelated facts. In general, images in dog breed articles should probably be limited to a couple of high-quality images that depict important aspects of the breed. Random cute-puppy-pictures are nice, but they honestly don't add to the article. Zetawoof(ζ) 21:42, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree about the galleries, they are breeding grounds for needless expansion. I will remove them where I find them. I hope the no-gallery idea can become stated policy of the project. VanTucky 19:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I have finished a cursory cleanup of all the more popular breeds (which are generally the worst offenders). Rather than having to go through this whole image policy explanation again for each dispute on the breed page, I would like to see an project-specific policy page linked from the main page covering the consensus reached on banning galleries for single breed pages and explaining the application of image policy as it pertains to dog articles. This would be similar to the wine-specific project essay of Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a wine guide. VanTucky 22:17, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I have noticed your current revisions to an article based on this idea. As a compromise, why don't you try to move the pictures over to wikipedia commons when you can and then just have a link to the gallary there. Remember 13:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, a Commons link is a good next step. Anyone is more than welcome to upload pet images to Commons. Honestly, I don't care personally about the deleted images enough to go around to the many many pages I cleaned up and retreiving all the images. I'll make sure to put a Commons link on all I can get to however and leave it to the uploaders of those images who still want them around to do it. I think that's fair. Good idea! VanTucky 19:00, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

For those interested, I am explaining the gallery deletion on Talk:Boston Terrier. VanTucky 19:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree about referring to commons for gallery shots. Over a couple of years, we discussed (many times) how many photos should be in articles. Conclusion was that you can't just say "each article needs only 1 (or 3, or whatever number) of photos." I'm afraid I can't point you to the discussions offhand, but what we have aimed for in the past with photo inclusions is that the photo should add some info to the article that other photos don't show. It's summarized in the template shown here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dog_breeds/Templates#Photo_request_template. Basically, some breeds need more photos than other breeds just because of distinct variants in coat colors and textures alone. For example, in the Australian Shepherd article, (valid) coat colors include:
  • Blue merle
  • Black tricolor
  • Red tricolor
  • Red merle
  • Black and white
  • etc...
and I think it's valuable to show examples of each because the dog can look very different to someone not familiar with the breed. In addition, I believe that one gets the most info about a dog's appearance by having at least:
  • Side shot showing whole body head to tail
  • Face-on shot--face often looks very different from what you'd expect from the side
  • If ears and/or tails are commonly docked in this breed, show examples of docked & undocked varieties
  • Breed performing activity(ies) typical of this breed. This gives a much better feel for the breed than a posed side shot
  • Puppy; seems to be helpful to people to understand that what the puppy looks like doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how they'll look when they grow up. Plus some breeds are very different in colors as puppies, such as the Kerry Blue Terrier, which changes color.
If one can combine any of these in one photo--e.g., side shot of docked blue merle--that'll save some photo space. I have resorted to galleries in a couple of articles where there was a lot of info to convey and it didn't seem likely to be able to pare the number of photos significantly.
Elf | Talk 03:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I didn't really use any arbitrary number for any of the articles. It was a balance between aesthetics and necessity of content. For several articles (such as French Bulldog) I left galleries or large number of images that had clear encyclopedic merit. As you said, this usually related to color, size or other variations within breeds. I kept in mind all physical variations in cleaning up pages. However, when an article was very thin and had say, ten-plus images, I cleaned them up irregardless of showing every single variation of the breed from newborn to adult. Making sure there is a balance of text to images is very important. I consistently deleted "Gallery" sections divorced from any encyclopedic text. There was no justification for them, as they enlightened nothing and served as dumping-grounds for images. I wasn't deleting the gallery across the board, it's often a useful tool. I don't think groups of close ups are necessary at all. Wikipedia is not a resource for evaluation/examples of breed standards for those looking to learn them. I also favored keeping the images that provided the most variety. Removing repetitive images (whether of adults or puppies) was the biggest task. VanTucky 20:48, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I think you're fine. If I happen across any that I disagree with, I'll edit and put explanations. ;-) Elf | Talk 02:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Vulnerable Native Breeds

Hullo, my name is The Wizard of Magicland 12:18, 7 May 2007 (UTC) and I'm interested in linking to or including in the relevant articles information about the 29 Vulnerable Native Breeds, as identified by the UK Kennel Club. I have mentioned this on the talk pages of the specific breeds, but if any one has ideas or is interested to help they can get in touch. I can do the writing, but as you can see from the link, my knowledge of technical coding is very poor!

It's an interesting topic. Wikipedia style--titles aren't capitalized usually unless they're a proper noun. Also, consider the title stand-alone--there's no indication that it's about dogs or that it's UK-specific. I suggest moving the article to Vulnerable native dog breeds in the United Kingdom. That's a mouthful, but an alternative might be just Vulnerable native dog breeds and then have sections by country because I'm sure that there are other countries with native breeds with the potential for dying out that SOMEONE is tracking in an official list somewhere. Still, that does open the door for random people to list random breeds. Hmm. Thinking out loud here--I think I'm going back to my original suggested title, unless anyone else has any better, shorter suggestion. Then when you've decided on a title, you could put links to it in the See also section of List of dog breeds and under the UK in List of dog breeds by country. Elf | Talk 03:14, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I just called it that because thats the name of the official UK KC list. Any other suggestions welcome though.--The Wizard of Magicland 14:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Dog breed infobox

I was looking around various Wikipedias in different languages for some dog images, and I couldn't help noticing some content which other infoboxes had which I though might be useful here. Height and weight, original use, and colours seem like worthy additions to me. What does everyone think about adding some or all of those? (I'm asking partially because I would like to see what the consensus is, and also because I would have no clue how to program those) --Pharaoh Hound (talk) (The Game) 22:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

This has been discussed and approved "yeah, let's do something like this" before and some sample test cases were done; preferred approach seemed to be a separate table from the main table, to be included to the left of the Appearance section. See:
And there are surely related discussions in various related places. Once upon a time I tried organizing all of that so it made sense. (See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dog_breeds#Project_subpages_and_discussions) But never got through everything, we had so many discussions in so many random places!
Elf | Talk 02:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh--and I see that someone has put a "Quick facts" box along these lines into Australian Shepherd. The other point I want to make is that the info has to be based on ALL standards from all countries listed, not just on AKC etc. That's why one of the versions of this box had a standard note included saying something about "individual kennel club standards might vary but generally fall in these groupings." Elf | Talk 03:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Several breeds have the Quick Facts box in them, and it's all hard-coded rather than template-ized. This is probably a bad thing, because if the group were to change, for example, the color or some other aspect of it, all articles containing the quick facts would have to be changed. Argh, I really don't have the time to create a template and then find all of those quick boxes and change them... but someone needs to... It's not too bad now that there's a nice "#if" syntax for making arguments optional (see how it works in Template:Infobox Dogbreed). Elf | Talk 02:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I've started setting up a list of dog related templates, as I see new ones popping up most every day, and I thought it could be useful to have them all gathered in one place. This could possibly have been realised as a category, but I prefered the list approach, as it's possible to have more controll over how each is displayed etc. Jerazol 05:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I also thought that it could be usefull when creating new ones, in order to be able to keep a somewhat consistent look/layout. See f.ex Template:Gundogs vs the others.Jerazol 05:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Good collection. This has been merged into the previously existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Templates. Elf | Talk 02:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Big Dogs

While the company name (and their product line) feature dogs, does the Big Dogs article really belong in this project? -- JediLofty User ¦ Talk 20:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I would say no. The related articles provide no content on real dogs. VanTucky 20:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Also vote no. Elf | Talk 02:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Nay from me as well. Quill 00:29, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject banners

I've been going through adding {{WikiProject Veterinary medicine}} to various veterinary medicine artices, and all the ones that are dog diseases are also tagged with the Wikiproject dog template. Was that just to make sure the article was under some project's purview? If so, it may be best to remove them to avoid clutter. If not, no problem, I'll leave them up. --Joelmills 00:57, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Dog diseases are under this Wikiproject, if the talk page looks too cluttered you can always <small> format them. VanTucky 02:37, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:TOL template

I'm working on a proposal to subsume all the WP:TOL project banners into a single one. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life/Template union proposal and its talk page. Circeus 19:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Chinese Foo Dog

I've started a stub article for Chinese Foo Dog. I'm not sure what standards and formatting this WikiProject has been using for dog breed articles, so please take a look and clean it up if necessary. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Drever

I thought I should bring the Drever article to the attention of this project, since it's a scent hound that doesn't seem to have made it into the proper list. Rather than get in the way of your organized efforts by trying to add this everywhere myself, I thought I'd just leave a note here. If this isn't the right thing to do, please let me know and I'll help however I can. Accounting4Taste 23:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Watchlist?

Hola! Just wondering if there is a page where a Watchlist for all Dogproject stuff is maintained?

I surfed into breed standard and saw that vandalism had gone undetected from November 2006.

We used to rely on Elf and Sannse for that sort of thing. Has anyone taken over?

Quill 00:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Is the articles list what your looking for? From what I know no-one patrols it too much, but I might be mistaken. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) (The Game) 11:41, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
That's certainly helpful, thanks.Quill 23:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Gray Wolf FAR

Gray Wolf has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Argentine Dogo

Hello, it would be great if someone from this project takes a look at Argentine Dogo. Several IPs have been adding external links which in my opinion look like spam rather than useful links. As I'm no expert on dog websites, could someone with more knowledge check the page and delete all unnecessary websites? I'll keep an eye on the article thereafter to prevent links from being readded. BTW, I asked the same thing at Wikiproject Dogs breeds. Greetings --Victor12 12:58, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Animals project proposal

I think it's both a pity and somewhat illogical that we have no animal WikiProject despite the fact that there are over 20 projects that are basically its daughters. There are also other projects that could emerge from it in the future, such as one on animal behavior. The project would provide a central place for people from all animal projects to talk, a central set of guidelines for articles on animals and zoology, and an assessment system for articles related to animals. If you are interested in creating such a project please visit Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of life#Animals project to discuss. Richard001 09:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The following projects would come under the parentage of this project:

New article

I just started African Wild Dog name controversy and put your project's tag on it. Please check it out and see if it needs help, or whatever. Thanks. 15:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Err... wild "dogs" are less closely related to domesticated dogs than even coyotes and jackels are. I don't think they belong in this project. —Pengo 23:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

listcruft

The list of portmanteau names in the Dog hybrids and crossbreeds article is getting absurd. A short prose paragraph explaining the usual mechanism by which the names for these hybrids are created, plus a more centralized discussion of their creation and popularity, is all that is needed, imo. VanTucky (talk) 16:43, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Problem article

For some time now, there has been a problem with tendentious editing by a certain user on the Boerboel article. After the third block, and realizing that another wouldn't work to making him discuss the article, it has been fully protected. At present it's only me and him, so I really want to welcome any one else who has an interest in participating. VanTucky (talk) 15:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Ethoxyquin

Could someone with knowledge of the subject please take a look at Ethoxyquin. This is a pet food additive (Kaytee lists as "a preservative") that every site that isn't Wikipedia says is potentially harmful. The current article reads almost like propaganda, as it references an FDA statement from 1989. There are many reports from the FDA in the 18 year interim that suggest the opposite, besides the fact that the American FDA isn't the ultimate authority on everything. ~ JohnnyMrNinja 03:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:PROD nominations (28 August - 7 September)

My goodness, I've started an avalanche! And I'm not complaining, either - every one of these articles that I've looked at has been unsourced, stubby, and based heavily in personal observations. Zetawoof(ζ) 23:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I doubt anyone would ever call me a WikiGnome! I decided that I was sick of having a slew of articles that were unreferenced and completely worthless except as promotional tools for unscrupulous breeders (not that I dislike hybrids, I like all dogs). Thanks for the inspiration. VanTucky (talk) 03:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Article: Poodle Subject Heading: Trivia Questionable Entry: "Muffin, pet of Lauren Ash Boulanger". MY QUESTION: Who is Lauren Ash Boulanger? Online and old-fashioned library research has turned up nothing. Valkurja 06:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

review Comfort retriever

Could someone experienced at looking at dog articles take a look at the new article (looks new to me) Comfort retriever and see if it is in the correct format for an article about a dog breed (and that it is factual), please? Someone requested the cleanup taskforce work on it but I think it first needs to be reviewed for it's format as a dog breed article. Thank you. RJFJR 15:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletions

Gazelle terrier (via WP:PROD on 4 October 2007) Deleted

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:02, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:59, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Articles for Discussion: Puppy breath

Puppy breath at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Puppy breath (2nd nomination) (5 October 2007 – 10 October 2007) Deleted

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 12:40, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Canines

The Canines link directs you to the Canines and their little past disambiguation page. This duplicates the links found on the Canine disambiguation page. Should the article be deleted and the Canines link be redirected to Canine? 12Ghost12 07:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Crossbreed

A Lakeland Terrier and a Patterdale Terrier crossbreed.

Uploaded and added to dog hybrids and crossbreeds. Just posting here in case anyone else finds the picture useful for any of the other articles. More pictures available should anyone request anything specific, also a pudding JR (traditional 'Irish Farm JR') should any be needed in that area also. Lanfear's Bane | t 14:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Why Kurama?

All right, I get how kitsune falls under your project, but why does Kurama (YuYu Hakusho) have your tag on the talk page? Denna Haldane 17:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Shiloh Shepherd Dog assessment

I've been putting a lot of work into fixing this article back up now that the breed clubs appear to have found other pursuits. I'd like to get it to at least GA status and was hoping a few editors could find time to take a look and give me suggestions for improving the article. Thanks! Shell babelfish 21:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

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