Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Negro league baseball task force

This subpage is for discussion on the Negro league baseball task force, go to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball for the main discussion.

Goals

We should set up some goals on articles so we know where to go from here. I say something we should do is change all infoboxes from the MLB player to baseball biography. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 05:13, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that infoboxes—for both teams and players—need to be created where they are missing and need to be improved and standardized. We can talk about some of the elements to be included in the infoboxes. I also have a personal goal to help advance six articles to Good article status this year. Bullet Rogan was the first, and I'm currently working on Satchel Paige. BRMo (talk) 05:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Very well. I'll work on some article standardization and grab some notes on other players to add to their articles. I will also be going to the Negro League Baseball Museum in Kansas City, Missouri in June. I will take some photos but if anyone has a specific request please see me on my talk page. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 05:03, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject template

The Template:WikiProject Baseball is now updated to include this task force. I've started updating the template to include relevant articles, and help is welcome. In most cases all you need to do is add "|negrolg=yes" and "|negrolg-importance=" selecting from top, high, mid, or low. I've already gone through the Hall of Famers, so I think I've probably already hit all of the "top" and most of the "high" importance players. BRMo (talk) 17:22, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Riley online

The entries for George Chappie Johnson and Grant Home Run Johnson in the Personal profiles, Negro Leagues Baseball eMuseum, are verbatim entries from James A. Riley, The Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues. eMuseum cites Carroll & Graf Publishers, Inc., 1994; the second edition 2002 is a reprint except for a catalog of new data at the back.

For those two entries, the only additions are a second nickname for Grant ('Dad') and links to other eMuseum pages. What's lost is the bold and italic markup of biographical data, because eMuseum bolds everything. In the list of team-seasons, Riley uses bold for primary affiliation(s) and italics for minor teams. In the list of fielding positions (and other roles), he uses bold for primary position(s) and italics for merely emergency ones. In the name fields, he uses bold for the primary baseball name and italics to relegate some nicknames. --P64 (talk) 17:20, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here is an illustration of Riley's markup, featuring the first half of the header for Grant Johnson. At eMuseum everything is bold and the name fields are rearranged entirely. This replicates Riley except for layout and the use of four numerals for years (rather than '11 for 1911, and so on). In the remaining header fields (Bats, Throws, Height, Weight, Born, Died) Riley does not use markup.

Johnson, Grant (Home Run)

Career: 1895-1916

Positions: ss, 2b, p, manager

Teams: minor leagues (1894), Page Fence Giants (1895-1898), Chicago Columbia Giants (1899), Chicago Unions (1900), Cuban X-Giants (1903-1904), Philadelphia Giants (1905-1906), Brooklyn Royal Giants (1906-1909, 1912), Leland Giants (1910), Chicago Giants (1911), New York Lincoln Giants (1911-1913), Mohawk Giants (1913), New York Lincoln Stars (1916), Pittsburgh Colored Stars of Buffalo (1916-1917, 1919-1921), Buffalo Giants (1923)

So the eMuseum visitor, such as many a wikipeditor, misses the judgments that "Home Run Johnson" was his primary baseball name; and that Johnson was primarily a shortstop, a regular secondbaseman at times, a pitcher only in emergency, and a regular manager. (Positions for Rube Foster is "p, 1b, of, manager, executive, owner; founder, officer (NNL)".) The internet visitor also misses the classification of those 1895–1916 teams as major, the preceding and following teams as minor.

Thanks. It looks like there's still some value to the printed page! BRMo (talk) 22:58, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let me continue that review at the left margin.

Same for teams. There are 22 Team profiles, Negro Leagues Baseball eMuseum. I have checked three of them against the print Riley (Cuban X-Giants, New York Cubans, Newark Eagles), and those are identical except for expansion of abbreviations and division of some long paragraphs (as for the Personal profiles). Riley uses markup only to bold the team names, and may recognize no multiple names, so nothing is lost in the online edition. (On the other hand, 22 is a tiny selection from these skimpy articles. Here at wikipedia there are 30 teams with players categories.)

Typos. The eMuseum edition reprints the typos and clerical errors known to me. --P64 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hall of Fame candidate profiles (2006)

Here is the index of 39 candidate profiles published by the Hall of Fame winter 2006, prior to the February committee meetings that elected 17 of them. The host is Internet Archive where service may be slow. (Here is one direct link: Grant Johnson by Jim Overmyer.) The "pre-Negro Leagues" candidates appear first in the alphabetical list. I recall that they were more substantial than the blurbs on Leagues players, lacking a rendition of playing records as a crutch. --P64 (talk) 16:29, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Four of the latest profiles, from the end of the list, I have not located here or at a few other dated editions of the archive: Mule Suttles, C.I. Taylor, J.L. Wilkinson, Jud Wilson. Generally the later profiles are less substantial. --P64 (talk) 19:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

How widely and how soon should infoboxes be used? When a "person" infobox rather than a "baseball player" infobox?

Here are some people at the HOF candidate level. --P64 (talk) 00:11, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

person infobox: Bud Fowler
no infobox: Grant Johnson, Spottswood Poles, Ben Taylor
(contd): Allen, Beckwith, Bell, Byrd, Andy Cooper (hof), Dixon, Hughes, Jenkins, Lundy, Marcelle, Moore, Oms, O'Neil, Parnell, Scales, Mule Suttles (hof), Candy Jim Taylor
(contd): Effa Manley, Alex Pompez, Cum Posey, C.I. Taylor, J.L. Wilkinson

scope: This report covers the 39 semifinal candidates for 2005/2006 election by the Committee on African-American Baseball. 17 were elected. Those not listed have the baseball player infobox. --P64 (talk) 20:00, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It would seem to me that if insufficient information is given, there would be no point to the baseball bio infobox. The person infobox would serve the purpose. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 22:56, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the baseball player infobox should be preferred because it includes useful parameters such as batting and throwing handedness and a list of teams. Some of the other available parameters, however, such as statistics, will be challenging for most Negro league players given the current state of knowledge and can be omitted unless well documented. The "person" infobox may work better for non-players, such as Effa Manley. For a while I was trying to add infoboxes for the Hall of Famers, but it's a project that isn't finished yet. Of course, any interested editor is welcome to take up the effort. BRMo (talk) 03:33, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like this cell for Frank Grant whose professional debut was 1886 in organized baseball (or earlier?).

Professional debut

Negro Leagues: 1889 for the Cuban Giants

"Professional debut" and "Professional finale" (my suggestion in place of "Last professional appearance") should be neutral with respect to organized baseball, independent white baseball, and "Negro Leagues".

The Teams list should be divided under subheadings or it should be chronological and thus neutral in the same sense just described. So I would list Buffalo Bisons first for Frank Grant. --P64 (talk) 22:07, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Middle States League

I recently tagged articles within subcategories of Category:Negro league baseball with the project code, and in the process ended up tagging some white players who were part of the Middle States League, which was an integrated league according to BRef Bullpen. Would the white players on those teams be considered part of this task force? – Muboshgu (talk) 22:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the task force intends to cover most white players who played for a pre-1947 integrated league. In addition to the Middle States League, quite a few white players played winter baseball in integrated leagues such as the California Winter League, the Cuban League, and the Puerto Rico Baseball League. I think the only white players we intend to cover in this task force are those who played for teams in the recognized Negro leagues. Before 1947, a handful of white Cuban players (such as Mike Herrera) also played in the Negro leagues. After 1947, Negro league teams signed a handful of white American players (e.g., Lou Clarizio and Stanley Miarka), but that looks like it was mostly a publicity stunt. BRMo (talk) 02:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pythian Base Ball Club

I recently started an article on the Pythian Baseball Club, the first Black Baseball Club. I wanted to bring it to the attention of the wikiproject page. Any suggestions or pointers would be greatly appreciated. My goal is to help expand this page and bring awareness to the league's significance in the Philadelphia area (as well as nationally). Aubs2013 (talk) 03:31, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've made a few edits and will try to look at it some more soon. BRMo (talk) 05:33, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merger

I have proposed a merger of the St. Louis Giants article into the St. Louis Stars (baseball) article. Please add any comments regarding the merge at Talk:St. Louis Stars (baseball)#Merger proposal. Rgrds. (Dynamic IP, will change when I log off.) --64.85.217.93 (talk) 11:59, 10 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Splitting reincarnates from the St. Louis Stars, Detroit Stars & Indianapolis ABCs articles

I have initiated a proposal for several articles at Talk:St. Louis Stars (baseball)#Splitting reincarnates from the St. Louis Stars, Detroit Stars & Indianapolis ABCs articles. Feedback is requested. Rgrds. (Dynamic IP, will change when I log off.) --64.85.217.176 (talk) 14:31, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Add Gene Baker to Negro League player list

I'm a wiki edit newbie so i apologize for any mis-steps in submitting the following, and for not simply using Wikiedit.

<Purpose of following is to make list more complete:

<Action: Add Gene Baker to "B" last name list table

<Reference in support of action: See "Gene Baker" Wiki entry.

Many thanks, everyone.

An extra thanks to those in the Africa Diaspora Task Force associated with this page. I am a Jewish-American of Eastern European descent, but had the great privilege to have had St. Claire Drake as a teacher and role-model. Thus, it is a particular joy to submit this addition in his honor and memory. (For those unfamiliar with Drake, he was one of the pioneering scholars of the African diaspora.) Dschulm1 (talk) 20:59, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The SABR source checks out, so...