Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/State Route 1002 (Lehigh County, Pennsylvania)/archive1
The contents of the debate:
- Comment The name "Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard" sounded like a notable intersection. Also, many quadrant routes in the Harrisburg area also have common names, but they are still titled as the quadrant route. An example is State Route 3015 (Dauphin County, Pennsylvania). V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 15:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Those should all be fixed then. --NE2 19:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- OK, now you're just overdoing it. In the common names guideline that you mentioned earlier, it says not to overdo it. By moving the article to "Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard", you're merely overdoing it, and in itself invokes POINT. Also, USSH trumps common names anyway. V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 19:52, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- "POINT" implies that I don't actually want to see the articles moved - but I do. These are unsigned designations used by no one but the DOT. --NE2 20:23, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard sounds like an intersection. If PennDOT names the road SR 1002, then thats the name it shall have. The state has setup a system of quadrant routes throughout the state and you want to name it to common names. Tilghman Street, already redirects to the article, there's no reason to rename it to an intersection like name. -- JA10 T · C 20:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Does Newfoundland and Labrador "sound like an intersection"? Supply and demand? Drum and bass? Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? --NE2 20:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- We're talking about a road here. If we name it Tilghman St. and Union Blvd., readers will thinks is a junction between the two roads. For the millionth time, the state asigned these two streets a quadrant number: SR 1002. You can see them on the little shields. -- JA10 T · C 20:49, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- When I see "Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard", I don't think of an intersection. The article even says "State Route 1002 (SR 1002), locally known as Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard"; does that mean SR 1002 is locally known as an intersection? --NE2 20:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- 1, if you still disagree, then we're having a poll. --JA10 T · C 20:57, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Agreed with JA10 and Vishwin: this has already been determined by WP:USSH. Please adhere to existing guidelines and policy. If you want to discuss changing the policy, then do so at the proper place; but please follow it in the meantime. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:11, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- The guideline says nothing about that. What it says is that when talking about the number, you should use certain forms. --NE2 21:34, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, "When writing an article about a state highway, use the official name as indicated in the table above." SR 1002, as classified by PennDOT, is technically a state highway. We will use SR 1002 as the name, according to that. Now, what's next? V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 21:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Here are some other "exceptions": Baltimore-Washington Parkway ("For reference, MDOT SHA designates the entire route Maryland Route 295"); Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel ("Interstate 478's entire length consists of the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel and its approaches"); and in fact many articles in Category:Quadrant Routes in Pennsylvania. Would you move all of those to the numbers? --NE2 21:52, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, "When writing an article about a state highway, use the official name as indicated in the table above." SR 1002, as classified by PennDOT, is technically a state highway. We will use SR 1002 as the name, according to that. Now, what's next? V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 21:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- The guideline says nothing about that. What it says is that when talking about the number, you should use certain forms. --NE2 21:34, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Agreed with JA10 and Vishwin: this has already been determined by WP:USSH. Please adhere to existing guidelines and policy. If you want to discuss changing the policy, then do so at the proper place; but please follow it in the meantime. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:11, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- 1, if you still disagree, then we're having a poll. --JA10 T · C 20:57, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- When I see "Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard", I don't think of an intersection. The article even says "State Route 1002 (SR 1002), locally known as Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard"; does that mean SR 1002 is locally known as an intersection? --NE2 20:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- We're talking about a road here. If we name it Tilghman St. and Union Blvd., readers will thinks is a junction between the two roads. For the millionth time, the state asigned these two streets a quadrant number: SR 1002. You can see them on the little shields. -- JA10 T · C 20:49, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Does Newfoundland and Labrador "sound like an intersection"? Supply and demand? Drum and bass? Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? --NE2 20:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard sounds like an intersection. If PennDOT names the road SR 1002, then thats the name it shall have. The state has setup a system of quadrant routes throughout the state and you want to name it to common names. Tilghman Street, already redirects to the article, there's no reason to rename it to an intersection like name. -- JA10 T · C 20:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- "POINT" implies that I don't actually want to see the articles moved - but I do. These are unsigned designations used by no one but the DOT. --NE2 20:23, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- OK, now you're just overdoing it. In the common names guideline that you mentioned earlier, it says not to overdo it. By moving the article to "Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard", you're merely overdoing it, and in itself invokes POINT. Also, USSH trumps common names anyway. V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 19:52, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- (de-indent) Also, responding with WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not acceptable. V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 22:03, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- It is when that other stuff makes sense there. Unless you're going to move Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel to Interstate 478, your argument has no teeth. --NE2 22:04, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND. The article is about a route in PA not NY. The article follows WP:PASH rules and this argument was agreed before to name quadrant routes State Route XXXX (Y County, Pennsylvania). -- JA10 T · C 22:13, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- If you disagree with it, talk to USRD members but you should let this FAC continue. -- JA10 T · C 22:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- That argument says nothing about what to do when the number is not the common name. --NE2 22:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- USSH trumps common names. If you want to keep arguing about this, discuss it on WT:USSH but not a fistfight here. V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 22:26, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Agreed with Vishwin60, this is not Burger King, you can't have it your way. --JA10 T · C 22:32, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- USSH trumps Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel? Central Scranton Expressway? --NE2 22:36, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- The articles you mention are examples of not overdoing common names. What I had meant to say is that it varies case-by-case. In the case of I-478, that's the only piece of road that the designation is applied to. Central Scranton Expressway is a
segment of I-81, as with the Pomona Freeway being a part of SR 60short freeway with no number. In the SR 1002 case, we have three different names for this stretch of road, which are Main Street, Union Boulevard, and Tilghman Street. Also, on the top of USSH, it says that it only applies to state highways. I-478 andI-81the expressway are not state highways in the scope of USSH. V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 22:47, 12 May 2007 (UTC)- From Central Scranton Expressway: "It carries unsigned State Route 3022." --NE2 22:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- What do you expect to call it, Main Street, Tilghman Street, and Union Boulevard, it doesn't sound right. --JA10 T · C 22:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Generally, if the route has more than one street designation, we use the official designation. If there's more info on one particular designation, make a new article. V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 22:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- That goes against the Wikipedia-wide naming conventions. SR 1002 is not a common name. --NE2 23:01, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- The Main Street portion doesn't matter; it's part of SR 1002 but only needs one sentence of description. This is similar to how Delaware Memorial Bridge talks about the portion of roadway from Delaware Route 9 west to U.S. Route 13. Tilghman Street and Union Boulevard works perfectly. --NE2 23:01, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Generally, if the route has more than one street designation, we use the official designation. If there's more info on one particular designation, make a new article. V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 22:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- What do you expect to call it, Main Street, Tilghman Street, and Union Boulevard, it doesn't sound right. --JA10 T · C 22:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- From Central Scranton Expressway: "It carries unsigned State Route 3022." --NE2 22:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- The articles you mention are examples of not overdoing common names. What I had meant to say is that it varies case-by-case. In the case of I-478, that's the only piece of road that the designation is applied to. Central Scranton Expressway is a
- USSH trumps common names. If you want to keep arguing about this, discuss it on WT:USSH but not a fistfight here. V60 干什么？ · VDemolitions 22:26, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- That argument says nothing about what to do when the number is not the common name. --NE2 22:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- It is when that other stuff makes sense there. Unless you're going to move Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel to Interstate 478, your argument has no teeth. --NE2 22:04, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Those should all be fixed then. --NE2 19:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Well, I think it's clear by now that I oppose, and that this article has problems. I'm taking this page off my watchlist. --NE2 23:02, 12 May 2007 (UTC)