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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Not promoted. Objections were not responded to within 7 days; the nominator is encouraged to renominate once they have the time to address concerns. --Rschen7754 (T C) 21:24, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

State Route 74 (New York–Vermont) (2 net support votes)

[edit]

State Route 74 (New York–Vermont) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) review

Suggestion: No suggestion given regarding A-Class
Nominator's comments: This article has failed a FAC under the NY 74 header. It got moved and is in the middle of a copyedit as I speak. I'd like some comments if anyone could.
Nominated by:Mitch32(UP) 00:14, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(reads like a laundry list, grammar)

The pond is quickly left behind, with Paradox Lake coming to an end soon after. Bumbo Pond comes soon after, where the highway enters the hamlet of Paradox.
Done. DurovaCharge! 19:46, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(redundant - local homes?, grammar)

There is not much of civilization in Paradox, excluding a few local roads and a few local homes.
Done. DurovaCharge! 19:48, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(grammar - highway flows into lake?)

A creek begins to appear on the southern side of the highway, which soon flows into Eagle Lake.
Done. DurovaCharge! 19:49, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The current wording is still not so great. It is good practice to make the topic the same as the subject of the sentence. This makes it easier to follow. Suggestion: "The highway then approaches a creek that flows into Eagle Lake."

(grammar)

Eagle Lake comes to an end, and the highway intersects with County Route 2, the first numbered highway since to meet 74 since US 9.
Done. DurovaCharge! 19:52, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Current wording still awkward. Suggest "...first numbered highway that NY 74 encounters after US 9"

("high" unneeded; "the [route] shows the ridges"?)

The northern part of Route 74 shows the ridges leading up to Keeney Mountain, which peaks at 1,400 feet (430 m) high.
Done. DurovaCharge! 19:56, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(village has a specific meaning in NY law - please use appropriate term as there is no incorporated village known as Ticonderoga)

...leaving the mountainous region for the village of Ticonderoga.

(where is the intersection?)

The highway intersects with New York State Route 9N and New York State Route 22.
Done. DurovaCharge! 20:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Still unclear. Just state that the intersection is within the hamlet.

(subject is unclear)

There is an intersection with County Route 49, before it turns to the southeast.
Done. DurovaCharge! 00:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Current wording is awkward. How about "intersects" rather than "meets an intersection with"

(is the use of "downtown" appropriate here? - not typically used for hamlets)

Route 74 and Route 22 head to the south towards downtown Ticonderoga.

("soon after" is unneeded)

The highway passes the entrance to Fort Ticonderoga and soon after, the Ticonderoga Amtrak station.

(awkward construction - merge into a single sentence; unneeded bolding)

Route 74 passes a parking lot and terminates at the ferry landing for Vermont across Lake Champlain. Across Lake Champlain is Vermont Route 74.

("small bits of civilization" should be formalized)

The highway goes shortly to the north, passing small bits of civilization.

("about" is unneeded if you're quoting an exact figure)

About 0.49 miles (0.79 km) in, Route 74 intersects with Route 73...

(please don't overuse "civilization"; awkward construction)

At the Barnum Hill intersection, Route 74 passes some civilization, turning northwards in the process.

(grammar - a patch of forests; typo)

At Smith Street, it turns to the northeast, winding through a patch of forests. Route 74 thrn climbs a hill and intersects with Harrington Hill Road...
The initial issue has been fixed. However, there are new but minor ones now. Note that there is a typo: "VT" instead of "VT 74" or maybe even "Route 74" for consistency with the rest of the sentences in the paragraph. The following sentence should begin as "Afterwards, ..."

(clarify location)

Fields and forests surround this thinly populated stretch of highway.
Still unclear.

("downtown" is not appropriate - use Shoreham center or the main settlement of Shoreham; "does enter"? - these two sentences may be better merged as a single compound sentence)

At the intersection with Blue Harbor Road, Route 74 turns east, heading for downtown Shoreham. Route 74 does enter downtown Shoreham, becoming known as Main Street.
Not completely fixed. Don't use the word "downtown" as this is not an urban area.

(awkward construction; "however" is not needed; use "densely" rather than "highly")

Not far after, the highway intersects with Route 22A and becomes concurrent. However, this stretch of Main Street is highly populated compared to most of the highway.
Mostly fixed, but be sure to insert a comma between "Shoreham" and "the concurrency ends"

(what is a "short, populated distance"? why is the beginning of the overlap mentioned again here?)

The route begins its concurrency with Route 22A in Shoreham, heading only a short, populated distance before turning off Route 22A for a northeastern route to Cornwall.

("beginning" is probably confusing here as it may imply the beginning of the route; are you sure it's moderately populated?)

The beginning segment of Route 74 after the concurrency is moderately populated, heading eastward once again
Mostly fixed but please insert a comman between "countryside" and "it bends".

(the entire route is classified functionally as rural, i.e. it is always technically rural; what do you mean by "continues following this"?)

However, the highway becomes rural, and turns once again to the northeast. Route 74 then continues following this for most of the distance to Cornwall.
Mostly fixed but please insert a comma between "highway" and "winds through"

("patch of Route 74"?; entire sentence doesn't read well)

This patch of Route 74 is mainly forests, with fields also in the area.

(this should be "straighter"; also it's not so clear what you mean here)

The highway edges more straight to the northeast...
Initial issue is fixed but it would read better if you combine the two sentences "VT 74 straightens..." and "A connector road..." into a single compound sentence.

("Straighter" is used here again - where did the road become straight? "its stretch to Cornwall" is awkward)

Route 74 becomes much straighter around the intersection with Elmendorf Road, as it continues its stretch to Cornwall.
Sentence is still awkward. "winds again for a stretch and straightens a second time"?

(here is "straight" for a third consecutive sentence; use "town" rather than "township")

After Doolittle Road, the highway becomes straight, intersecting with several township highways.
Use "town" rather than "township"

(Note that the road is technically in the town of Cornwall at this point - reword accordingly)

The highway then passes through fields and homes afterwards as it gets closer to Cornwall.

(You should probably say "Cornwall center" or "the main village of Cornwall" rather than "Cornwall area")

...becoming more populated as it enters the Cornwall area

(the terminus is in Cornwall center - it can't be mostly forest here)

At Clark Road, it turns to the northeast once again, passing through more forests before terminating at Route 30 in Cornwall.
This is mostly a residential area near the terminus. Also, use "Cornwall center" instead of "Cornwall" for clarity in this and the preceding sentence.

General comment: The section contains a lot of ferry history. It makes more sense to remove ferry history from ferry description for better readability and move it to a ferry section in the history. Describe the current characteristics and operation of the ferry only.

(Move to History section; cite needed for these facts)

The Ticonderoga–Larrabees Point Ferry is the oldest and southernmost ferry on Lake Champlain. It has operated on an informal basis since 1759 and it gained official status in 1799.

(Move this entire section to History)

The earliest ferries were probably rowboats... ...cable guidance system in 1946.

(Rewrite this entire section and use only this as in the Route Description)

An improved cable system remains in use today... ...runs during daylight hours.

(Move this entire section to history; should be reconciled with early history in Vermont)

John S. Larrabee of Vermont established... ...granted a franchise to the ferry in 1918.

(This sentence can be retained in the Route Description section)

The United States Coast Guard inspects the ferry because Lake Champlain is a federal waterway.

(You appear to be using the word "annex" incorrectly - please rewrite)

The town of Schroon was annexed from the town of Crown Point on March 20, 1804. Minvera was eventually created when annexed from the town in March 1817. The town eventually was annexed even further back to Crown Point in 1840.
You should mention when Crown Point was established and how the first settlers manage to travel before the creation of the "old state road". Otherwise the point of these sentences is lost.

(This needs further expansion. As an early state road, there should be an enabling law, which you should probably cite. Can you specify what places this state road was designed to connect and when the state road was authorized?)

The town eventually built what they called the "old state road", which passed through the Schroon Valley.
Still needs expansion. See comment directly above as well. Are you certain it was the town which built the "old state road"?

(What do you mean by "big"? Please formalize and specify why it is considered "big". You gloss over the "another" state road - please add more detail; do not use the awkward construction of "1810s, 20s, 30s, 40s")

This state road, along with another that makes up most of eventual NY 74, were big in the 1810s, 20s, 30s and 40s.

(Non-sequitur - what does the continued growth of Schroon have to do with the current designations of the two early state roads?)

Schroon has continued to grow, with the "old state road" now part of U.S. Route 9 and the other state road being part of NY 74 and County Route 84.

(This sentence does not make sense being here. Move it somewhere else or remove it)

Today, the Adirondack Northway heads through Schroon as well, passing some of the more rural regions of the Adirondacks.

Overall comment on "Old roads" subsection: A little additional background information would be helpful here. Why was the turnpike built? How long did construction take place? What was the economic impact of the turnpike after it opened? When and why did it close down?

(Sentence is unclear - what do you mean "built to a stretch of highway"?)

...was built to a stretch of highway from the two towns.

(grammar; awkward construction)

...but the charter stated that there could be another toll gate approximately every ten miles completed highway.
Current wording is better but there is a missing "of" before "completed highway"

(where is the length figure from? If this is an estimate, it may be better to round off to the nearest whole and add a note indicating how the estimate was derived)

...which ran for 17.05 miles (27.44 km) from Schroon to Ticonderoga...

("However" is not needed here; wrong usage of "truncated" - "removed from the state highway system" might be more appropriate, or just rephrase)

However, the length from Schroon to Newcomb was truncated by 1936.

(unclear that what is going on - you should mention more specifically the route of the original NY 73 a couple of sentences above; at what highway is the terminus by this time? Also, is this the same truncation in the third paragraph [In the early 1970s...]? If so, then this sentence should be removed from the first paragraph)

The concurrency with U.S. Route 9 was eliminated from Schroon to North Hudson for a terminus in Schroon.

(do you know approximately when this happened? did it not coincide with the elimination of this segment from the state highway system? If date is completely unknown, just reword to something like "...is currently designated as CR 84...")

The stretch from North Hudson to Tawahus was redesignated later as County Route 84, beginning at NY 28N in Tawahus and ending at US 9 in North Hudson.

(replace "on then" with "at what was then")

From there, Route F-9 continued northeast to Shoreham center on then Vermont Route 30A (modern VT 22A).

(this sentence is out of place here - might make more sense to move it to the beginning of the next paragraph)

By 1935, a spur connecting NY 22 to the ferry for Larrabees Point was designated as New York State Route 347.[18]

(move sentence about establishment of NY 347 before this sentence)

In 1950, New York extended NY 73 using former NY 347 (via Wicker and Montcalm Streets) and the ferry into Vermont...

(when was this?)

The opening of the Adirondack Northway also resulted in a slight shift of the western terminus of NY 74 from US 9 to the I-87.

Support

  • Pretty well written article. One question I have while reading it, How many instances are there of NY/VT routes using the same number across state lines? Is this the only occurrence, or is this common? Dave (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note that if this remains inactive for a week more or so, it will probably be closed out. --Rschen7754 (T C) 20:50, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm giving this 24 hours; if there is no attempt to address objections, this will be archived. I apologize in advance, but we need to keep things moving here. --Rschen7754 (T C) 21:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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