Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Russian battleship Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Zawed (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 21:20, 30 December 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Russian battleship Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya

Instructions for nominators and reviewers

Nominator(s): Sturmvogel 66 (talk)

Yet another in my series of ill-fated battleships, Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya served in the Black Sea during the First World War. Every time she encountered an enemy ship, they disengaged as fast as possible. Other than than she spent the war protecting smaller ships from interference by the larger Ottoman ships as they conducted mining operations and anti-shipping sweeps. The ship was supposed to be turned over the Germans by the terms of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, but she was scuttled by the Soviets instead in 1918. I'd like reviewers to focus on possible improvements to the lede as I've not been able to get it worded to my satisfaction in addition to the usual suspects like jargon, etc. Thanks in advance.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:07, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Pass: sources are reliable, no spot checks done because the nominator has a history of successful A-class nominations. Fiamh ^{(talk, contribs)} 21:04, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaia NH 101053.jpg is stated to be PD-US because it was published before January 1, 1924; is there more information on this first publication? Doesn't it also need to be PD-Russia, and if so, what's the basis for that?
- That was my best guess as to the most appropriate tag to use. Boris Drashpil was a noted collector of ship photographs of the Imperial Russian Navy who donated his collected to the Navy in '86. He may or may not have been the photographer. I don't know if it was published or not before 1924; it's incredibly difficult to determine the Russian publication history of images so I'm going to ask somebody more knowledgeable than myself for her opinion @Nikkimaria: on what to do here.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:37, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - If all else fails we can host locally with only US status, but what's the earliest publication that can be confirmed? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:46, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - 2003 in a Russian book is the only publication that I can find.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:01, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - Okay, in that case I'd suggest hosting locally with only the NHHC tag. It could be PD in Russia but we just don't have enough information to confirm that. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:49, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        I've requested deletion on Commons; I can't load them locally until they're deleted from Commons.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:56, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: My deletion requests have been sitting for a month. Do you know an admin on Commons who can take take of them for me?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:34, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately no. You could load locally under a different name if there is a continued delay. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:39, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: Still no response. Deleted the image and moved the stamp picture up as a replacement.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:33, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The other image is free and correctly labeled. Fiamh ^{(talk, contribs)} 21:04, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM

This article is in good shape, I have a few comments:

ex-German Ottoman battlecruiser
the February Revolution of 1917
Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya was 556 feet
link knots and nmi in the body
the conversions of the TTs are different, one leads with imperial, the other with metric
This one still needs one of them flipped. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:40, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Good catch.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:53, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
can you drop the .0 from 1.0–2.0 in in the infobox?
Yavuz and Midilli as ~~she~~they
link covering force
when did she come under Bolshevik control? The infobox says November 1917, but it isn't explicitly covered in the body
- It's not explicitly addressed in my sources, but the fleet following the Decree on Peace would seem to be a clue--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:47, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I could find to quibble about. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:39, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for catching these.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:47, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, supporting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:19, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Indy beetle

As I recall, the battle with Yavuz wasn't an "encounter"; the battlecruiser was chasing two Russian destroyers which asked the Ekaterina for support. -Indy beetle (talk) 07:01, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Can't believe that I didn't look at the article on the action! Thanks for catching this lapse of mine.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:34, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

I'll do this later on, at the weekend or so. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:52, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya (Императрица Екатерина Великая (Empress Catherine the Great)) Which language is this written?
- Please be consistent about how I should treat foreign languages. You've objected to my linking and naming the language in my recent Russian battleship articles and haven't complained when I turned off both.
the ex-German Ottoman battlecruiser Yavûz Sultân Selîm once Sea of blue here.
was renamed Svobodnaya Rossiya (Свободная Россия, Free Russia) Which language?
Her exact draft is not known, but she had a draft of 28 feet 7 inches (8.7 m) Little bit vague to say - first we mentioned she hasn't an exact draught but later you mentioned she had a draught? Wasn't this her exact draught?
- No, that was her draft for her sea trials which were often not performed at normal load.
ammunition for the forward 130-millimeter (5.1 in) guns Metric units as the primary units here?
- Both. Guns imported from or influenced by France were given official designations in metric measurements
fitted with four license-built Parsons steam turbine sets Also sea of blue.
- Technical terminology.
the turbines produced 33,000 shp (25,000 kW) Unlink both links here.
- Quite right.
four primary Curtis 360-kilowatt (480 hp) turbo generators and two 200-kilowatt (270 hp) auxiliary units Was it normal to use Kw instead of horsepower for generators' power?
- Uncertain; that's how my source gives them.
was also fitted with three 75-millimeter (3 in) anti-aircraft guns Add "(AA)" in the sentence.
- I don't use the abbreviation after that so no need to abbreviate.
and completed on 18 October 1915 --> "and completed on 18 October that same year"
three seaplane carriers to attack Varna, Bulgaria Pipe Bulgaria to the Kingdom of Bulgaria.
she was renamed Svobodnaya Rossiya (Свободная Россия, "Free Russia") Which language?
was scuttled on 19 June 1918 by four torpedoes fired by Remove 1918.
- Indeed.
In note a All dates used in this article are New Style, maybe mention that both styles after 1900 had a 13-day difference?
In the infobox - why are this kind of "18 × single 130 mm (5.1 in) guns" written in millimetres?
- See above.

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:20, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- - Thanks for looking this over.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:00, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome; support. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:03, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Parsecboy

I think it's standard practice to bold an alternate name in the lead
Any details on the construction program the ship was ordered for?
- Added a bit
No full load displacement?
- Nope. I suspect that many of her records didn't survive the civil war.
"at a more economical speed" - do we know what that speed was?
Link keel laying and launching, seaplane carrier, naval mine, Central Powers
"salvoes" -> "salvos"
Some inconsistencies in the refs - some cities get state/country and some don't, and some are abbreviated and some aren't. Parsecboy (talk) 18:04, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- All fixed. See if my changes are satisfactory.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:31, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Nate, can you have a look into Sturm's changes? If anything is okay, we can promote her before 2020 starts. ;) Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:14, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cut'r loose. Parsecboy (talk) 13:46, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.