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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted Hawkeye7 (talk) 10:21, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hans Waldmann (fighter pilot)

[edit]
Nominator(s): MisterBee1966 (talk)


I am nominating this article for A-Class review because I think that after the peer review and GA review most of the teething problems have been eliminated. I believe to have included most if not all of the publications available on Waldmann. Thanks for your feedback. MisterBee1966 (talk) 11:08, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Will check back. —Ed!(talk) 17:59, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments

  • CommentsSupport
    • No dab links [1] (no action required).
    • External links check out [2] (no action required).
    • Images lack Alt Text [3] so you might consider adding it (not and ACR requirement though - suggestion only).
    • The Citation Check Tool reveals no issues with reference consolidation (no action required).
    • Images are all PD or licenced and seem appropriate to the article (no action required).
    • The Earwig Tool found no issues with copyright violation [4] (no action required).
    • Some duplicate links which need to be removed per WP:REPEATLINK:
    • I agree with Ed's concerns about describing what a "victory" is in the lead. The lead should be a summary only, so doesn't require this detail. I note that an explaination was suggested in the peer review but I don't see why this is required in the lead. Perhaps move it to the body of the text. I'm not too fused about the description of the Knight's Cross - it seems a little wordy but it seems to work, although I note that this information is not included in the body of the text with a refence so it needs a citation.
    • "...Luftwaffe of the Third Reich in 1940...", Third Reich seems a little redundant to me.
    • This seems awkward to me: "... applied for an officer's career in the Luftwaffe for the first time in 1938." Consider instead "...applied for a career as an officer in the Luftwaffe for the first time in 1938."
    • Multiple issues here in my opinion: "...he was called to arms beginning his 12 weeks military basic training with Fliegerausbildungsregiment 72 (flight training regiment) at Fels am Wagram in Austria in July 1940." Specifically "called to arms" is too informal, consider "called up" or some similar. Also it should probably be "12-week military basic training" (as its an adjective).
    • Parts of the article seem unusally detailed. In particular is it really relevant exactly what time the subject logged his first solo flight or what markings the aircraft had at the time? I'm not going to oppose on the basis of this but it seems a little distracting to me. I suggest removing it but am happy to see if other reviewers have an opinion on this before/if it is to be actioned.
    • Not sure about the capitalisation for some of the translations, I'm not 100% on the policy on this one but I think they should probably be in caps as they are still proper nouns. For instance "Fliegerausbildungsregiment 72 (flight training regiment)" should probably be "Fliegerausbildungsregiment 72 (72nd Flight Training Regiment)" and "Jagdfliegerschule 6 (6th fighter pilot school)" should probably be "Jagdfliegerschule 6 (6th Fighter Pilot School)" or something similar. There are a few others like this throughout the article.
    • "...before transferring to the front was held in...", consider "...before transferring to the front was completed in..." instead.
    • This is poorly worded: "This 85th aerial victory was actually an Herausschuss (separation shot)—a severely damaged heavy bomber forced to separate from his combat box which counted as an aerial victory." Consider instead: "This victory, his 85th, was actually a Herausschuss (separation shot)—a severely damaged heavy bomber forced to separate from his combat box which counted as an aerial victory."
    • Incorrect italics here: "Gruppenkommandeur (group commander) Major Gerhard Barkhorn was ordered...". "Major" is English hence should not be in italics.
    • Language here is repetitive: "The Invasion of Normandy, which started on the early morning of 6 June 1944, was already in full swing by the time Waldmann's Staffel arrived in France. The Western Allies were already breaking out of Normandy in what was codenamed Operation Cobra." Specifically "already" twice.
    • This is awkward to me: "He was credited with the destruction of numerous trucks on a number of these ground support missions in the timeframe of 2 to 5 August 1944." Consider instead: "He was credited with the destruction of numerous trucks during ground support missions over the period of 2–5 August 1944."
    • "...after 45 minutes of flight time..." → "...after 45 minutes flying time..."
    • Repetitive: "Waldmann attacked and with his first attacking pass...", consider instead "Waldmann attacked and with his first pass..."
    • Also repetitive: "against inbound Anglo-American heavy bombers. The Anglo-American attack..."
    • Some inconsistency in the presentation of German ranks. Often you include the English translation in brackets, but in other places you don't, or in one instance you put it in a footnote. Probably best to be consistent. I note MOS:FOREIGN suggests you should provide the translation in brackets.
    • "Major Erich Rudorffer, Gruppenkommandeur of the I./JG 7", issue here is that you wikilink major, but you have already used the term above. If you intend on wikilink it, it should be done at first use.
    • This seems a strange construction to me: "Weihs saved his life by bailing out with his parachute and came down near the Hamburg-Berlin railroad tracks." Consider instead wording it more simply as: "Weihs bailed out, coming down near the Hamburg-Berlin railroad tracks."
    • "Staffelkapitän Hans Waldmann and Oberfähnrich Günter Schrey...", should just be "Waldmann and Oberfähnrich Günter Schrey..." removing rank and first name IAW WP:SURNAME.
    • I don't understand this entire section I'm afraid: "Four minutes into the flight, roughly 50 kilometres (31 mi) and less than 800 metres (2,600 ft) of altitude, Weihs' aircraft experienced a heavy blow from below, putting the aircraft into an unrecoverable spin. Weihs saved his life by bailing out with his parachute and came down near the Hamburg-Berlin railroad tracks. The airfield at Kaltenkirchen was immediately informed. Staffelkapitän Hans Waldmann and Oberfähnrich Günter Schrey were missing at first. Waldmann's body was recovered the next day near Schwarzenbek, roughly 1 kilometre (0.62 mi) away from the crash site of his Me 262. Apparently he had managed to bail out but failed to deploy his parachute on time. The injuries sustained during the crash with Weihs' aircraft may have already been fatal. The recovery party found Waldmann with his upper forehead smashed.[27] Oberfähnrich Günter Schrey was also found dead. He had bailed out with his parachute, but his body was found riddled by machine gun bullets." In the lead you wrote that Waldmann was killed in a mid-air collision so I assume this is what you are describing here but it really isn't clear.
      • Partially done. I believe this could still be worded better. For instance: "Four minutes into the flight, having travelled roughly 50 kilometres (31 mi) and flying at less than 800 metres (2,600 ft) above the ground, Weihs' aircraft experienced a heavy blow from below, putting it into an unrecoverable spin. Waldmann had collided with Weihs' Me 262." Consider instead: "Four minutes into the flight, having travelled roughly 50 kilometres (31 mi) and flying at less than 800 metres (2,600 ft) above the ground, Weihs' aircraft experienced a heavy blow from below after Waldmann collided with him, putting it into an unrecoverable spin." Or something similar. Anotherclown (talk) 22:45, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Oberfähnrich Günter Schrey was also found dead...", should just be "Schrey was also found dead..." removing rank and first name following formal introduction as first use per WP:SURNAME.
    • "A number of wreath...", should be a plural here.
    • In the refences terms like "Ltd" or "Limited" should be removed from the publishers field per Template:Cite_book#Publisher.
    • I admit to not knowing the policy here but I'm uncomfortable with the use of German language in the bibliography. Surely the entries (e.g. title etc) of the works can be translated into English (given you have used the information to write an article in English I'm assuming you can read German)? Obviously the works themselves are in German (from your use of "in German" template - which seems acceptable to me - and I have no problem assuming good faith as to their content) but not many of our readers are likely to actually be able to read German. I'm happy to be corrected about this point - if I'm wrong I'll strike the comment. Anotherclown (talk) 12:06, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
G'day, the {{cite book}} template has a "trans_title=" parameter that could be used. Adding that sort of information would probably improve a reader's ability to find a book. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • Was just going to give this a quick scan but ended up copyediting throughout (which I think has addressed one or two points from the guys above) so basically happy with the prose now.
  • I share Anotherclown's confusion re. the final section; specifically we need clear explanation that Waldman collided with someone (Weih or Schrey presumably, but who and how?). This assumes that the wording in the lead is correct, of course, and he definitely did collide with someone; if it's uncertain then you need to qualify the lead with "possibly" or "probably" (whatever most accurately reflects the sources) as well as providing the details in the last section.
  • Aside from that, detail looks okay but he seems to have rung up 80-odd victories on the Eastern Front without any elaboration, so you may want to flesh that out a bit.
  • Structure looks fine; I'll take as read other reviewers' comments on referencing and images. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:17, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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