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The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2007–2008 Ethiopian crackdown in Ogaden

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I hope this GA getst to A-class and becomes "my" first such article. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on what I've picked out so far.

  • Would it be possible to add "retrieved on" to the web-resources? Although they are already in several, they should probably be consistent.
could a bot do that?--TheFEARgod (Ч) 21:16, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, a bot to do this does not exist to my knowledge (there might be one, but I have yet to encounter it). Cam (Chat) 05:01, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • In "Background", there are several very small paragraphs (notably in "insurgency"). Could these be combined into larger paragraphs, so as to make the article look less choppy?
done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 21:17, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Likewise in "Timeline", would it be possible to reword this section slightly to make it look like less of a note-taking exercise (for lack of a better term)?
 Done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 10:35, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Human Rights Abuses" should probably be changed to "Allegations of Human Rights Abuses", as Ethiopia likely denies that these took place.
done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 21:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Likewise, "Ethiopian Military Brutality" is borderlining on POV.
done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 21:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's some inconsistency with the tense used in the article. Some sections are written in present-tense, some in past-tense (I'm guilty of this myself on frequent occasions)
  • "Links to the war in Somalia and Eritrea's support to the rebels" is a fairly long heading. Would it be possible to reword that slightly. Perhaps to "Links to Somalia and Eritrea".
done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 21:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good work on this article. All the best, Cam (Chat) 19:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. Wow, lots of work here. Any possibility you might be interested in helping to develop other Ethiopia-related articles like those connected to the First Italo-Abyssinian War or Second Italo-Abyssinian War? But about this article:

  • "Ethiopia's eastern Somali Region, known as Region 5" -- my impression is that this subdivision of Ethiopia is no longer known as "Region 5", in fact none of them are known as numbered regions. You should check with BanyanTree, who added this detail to Somali Region.
done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Wardheer" in the article is better known by its Ethiopian name, Werder. (Why the HRW used the Somali version, I don't know.)
done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The ONLF fought against the military dictatorship of Mengistu Haile Mariam, but was not allied to the Tigrayan People's Liberation Front (TPLF), the rebel movement led by Ethiopia's current prime minister, Meles Zenawi." Well, your intent is correct. The ONLF was allied with the Ethiopian People's Revolutionary Democratic Front, which was a coalition of which the TPLF was officially part of (although in fact the dominant member -- which is why what you wrote is mostly true). As for the clause "the rebel movement led by Ethiopia's current..." I'd drop the "rebel" part; maybe rephrasing it as "the movement which overthrew the Derg and was led by current Prime Minister Meles Zenawi".
done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The ONLF then reverted to waging armed attacks against the Ethiopian government" -- I am unsure about how promptly the ONLF acted against the central government. If worldstatesmen.org can be trusted here, Mohammed Ma'alin Ali, a member of the ONLF, was president of the Somali Region from October 1997 to October 2000. I see that the HRW claims the break came in 1994, but I suspect they are wrong here; maybe the more likely date would be the 2005 general elections, when most opposition parties & outside observers believe the EPRDF stole the elections. In any case, there has been hostility between the Amhara & Tigrayans on one hand, & the Somali since at least the late 19th century when Ethiopia annexed the Ogaden -- if not for even longer.
you should source your claim and take that discussion to Insurgency in Ogaden --TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:22, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I would, except that there has been no discussion about that page, & you have been responsible for most of the edits on that page. :) -- llywrch (talk) 02:21, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Replying to myself, let me make my point explicit here: there is a problem, which requires either (1) more research, or (2) if it is not a crucial issue find a way to write around it. The second is the easier, since one could simply refer to the long-standing antipathy between the Ethiopians & the Ogaden/Somali (a conflict which has occasionally appeared here on Wikipedia). However, I had a peak at the ONLF website, and found this account which explains the problem I pointed out above: there are/were two ONLFs, one of which was under the influence of the EPRDF. This would not be unusual: see, for example, Ethiopian Teachers' Association. -- llywrch (talk) 04:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
the ONLF source too says the ongoing insurgency begun in 1994/1995, just like HRW. I fail to understand your problem :( maybe you should make a bold edit to get straight the point --TheFEARgod (Ч) 11:40, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
According to the source I referenced, there are two ONLFs: one is the rebel group, which is the target of the crackdown; the second elected Mohammed Ma'alin Ali (mentioned above) as president of the Somali Region. Not knowing that there were two groups with the same name, I believed that the HRW might be mistaken on when the latest insurgency started. Adding a footnote here -- & in the related articles -- might keep other readers from making the same mistake. -- llywrch (talk) 00:37, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you find a good source feel free to edit the crackdown page or others, you know better than me that specific matter, it seems --TheFEARgod (Ч) 19:31, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In June, the Ethiopian military swooped in and vowed "to hunt down" the rebels." The Ethiopian military did not "swoop in": they've been stationed in various numbers & locales in the Ogaden since the late 19th century.
done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Somali Region and cities.PNG -- This is a very nice graphic, but the letters for Kebri Dehar are washed out on the left & unreadable. Could the letters be put in a different color, say blue?

Darn, I have to go. More comments later. -- llywrch (talk) 01:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

we may replace it with http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Image:Ogaden_Map.jpg --TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to persuade you to adapt the present image because it pulls in something I believe is vital to this article: the Somali Region. This article retells an episode that is part of the dynamics of this subnational unit; that is more important than the geographical relief that your proposed replacement has. -- llywrch (talk) 04:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments --

  • "Ethiopia's military campaign has triggered a serious humanitarian crisis. The Ogaden National Liberation Movement accuses the government of blockading the region deliberately in order to produce a 'man-made famine'" -- Maybe I'm being overcautious here, but the way you phrase this might violate NPOV here by making the statement that the Ethiopian military is causing a "serious humanitarian crisis". Maybe better would be to write, "The Ogaden National Liberation Movement accuses the government of blockading the region deliberately in order to produce a 'man-made famine', and trigger a serious humanitarian crisis." You get the point across without risking the fury of pro-Ethiopian editors. (They are on Wikipedia, just not very visible yet.)
  • The next two paragraphs seem to duplicate the same information, the first of the two in less detail & drawing more of a conclusion.

So much for a first reading. -- llywrch (talk) 02:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've added that several humanitarian orgs declare there is a humanitarian crisis, not only the ONLF. However, I will need help with further copyedits of the war crimes part--TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:12, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Further Comments --

Sorry for the hiatus (traveling doesn't allow for a lot of wikitime, unfortunately). Seeing as I have 28 hours before the next trip, I've looked over the article again (significant improvements since last week). That said, a few things I picked up:
  • There's still a few problems in terms of tense consistency. I went through and corrected a few that I noticed in the lead, but it wouldn't hurt to have a thorough copyedit to fix this before you go for FAC (If you plan to do this). If you wish, I can do this anytime after July 19 for you.
  • "Ethiopia's eastern Somali Region, whose eastern part constitutes the Ogaden" sound a bit awkward. Perhaps it could be reworded to be a bit less choppy.

 Done--TheFEARgod (Ч) 10:35, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Other than that, everything seems to be in order. All the best, Cam (Chat) 05:01, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
how, one by one...? Isn't that a bot's work? --TheFEARgod (Ч) 09:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support You need to format your references, and I think you dot-org report on Ethopian war crimes from the human rights watch is indepedently cited three or four times in the article. If the latter is in fact true then I would like to see all the independent citations to the source consolidated into a single referenced source. Aside from these two points I think the articles is cleared for lift off. TomStar81 (Talk) 04:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose, until all of the references are properly formatted. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 14:53, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
how? --TheFEARgod (Ч) 18:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what you're asking. There are numerous references that use just a bare URL. They need to be either filled out with the author, title, publisher, and date, or formatted using {{cite web}}. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 18:18, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support, as all issues were adressed. --Eurocopter (talk) 21:22, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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