Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/WikiProject Young Earth Creationism

The following discussion is an archived proposal of the WikiProject below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.

The resulting WikiProject was not created

Description

This WikiProject was created in September, but is only now being officially proposed. Please follow this link to go to the main page of the WikiProject to see what its purpose and objectives are...And then think about coming onboard! Novus Orator 07:12, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Please specify whether or not you would join the project.

Will Join Novus Orator 07:12, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes.--Taiwan boi (talk) 07:59, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely! I've been waiting forever to come across something like this. Wekn reven i susej eht ^{Talk• Follow} 14:31, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Creating a project on creationism generally (or expanding WP:WikiProject intelligent design to cover the general topic) would appear to be more appropriate than piecemeal creation of projects on subtopics of creationism (Young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism, Progressive Creationism, etc). Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 08:42, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think that having focused WikiProjects over large general WikiProjects contributes to morale and keeps editor activity high, while countering Systemic bias. Obviously this WikiProject would collaborate extensively with its parent project WP:WikiProject intelligent design, and with any future sister projects, but I think that there is enough ground to justify the creation of this WikiProject, pending editor participation.--Novus Orator 08:45, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it, you agreed to cease editing in "large areas of Wikipedia (such as Creation-Evolution related articles)" . How does that fit in with your participation in this project, as it would appear that you would not be editing articles covered by it? Dougweller (talk) 09:12, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am only going to supervise the creation and maintenance of the actual WikiProject, while leaving the editing of involved articles up to other members, since I have a long (and problematic) history of contentious editing. This WikiProject is going to try to counter editing patterns that are against consensus....--Novus Orator 09:29, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So one half of the current Wikiproject roster are (self-)barred from editing any of the articles in the project? Hardly an auspicious beginning. Why start/join a project that you can't participate in? Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 10:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, I've found myself quite busy at WP:CRYZOO in creating project templates and formatting internal pages. I also coordinate recruitment and assessment in the WikiProjects I'm involved in.--Novus Orator 10:20, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On the basis of my longstanding, and heavy, involvement with WP:WikiProject intelligent design, I can tell you that such activities are only a tiny proportion of what it takes to maintain a viable wikiproject. It's interesting that you cited WP:CONGO as an example on User talk:Terra Novus/WikiProject Young Earth Creationism. I see that over half of its assessed content are categories, and the majority of its non-category content are stubs. I think you have a poor understanding of what makes a viable project. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 10:32, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are free to think what you like, but I believe that I have sufficient experience and knowledge to handle managing this WikiProject. I never said that the above work is all that it takes to keep a WikiProject going (that would be a joke). I just was emphasizing that I won't actually be involved with the article editing side of things due to my WP:TE issues...--Novus Orator 10:40, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What Terra Novus promises above seems to be at odds with his very recent ongoing edits.[1] He added a YEC source to the talk page of the featured astrophysics article Oort cloud and wrote, "I added a quote from Faulkner that gives the Young-earth creationist solution to the problem." Mathsci (talk) 09:54, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I discussed that solution on the talk page of the article, but I did not edit the article itself, consistent with my statement above and this diff (See here)--Novus Orator 09:59, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Discussing material on a talkpage for topics you have "agreed to cease editing" on is acceptable. I would however question the sheer amount of time you appear to be spending on 'non-editing' activities connected to these topics. You would be far better off (and cause far less aggrevation to your fellow editors) if you found yourself some new pastures. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 10:36, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct, and that is one of the reasons I am founding this WikiProject to keep me away from the first-hand conflicts, and onto the useful administrative side of things in my area of interest...--Novus Orator 10:42, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I repeat my, unanswered, original statement: "I would however question the sheer amount of time you appear to be spending on 'non-editing' activities connected to these topics. You would be far better off (and cause far less aggrevation to your fellow editors) if you found yourself some new pastures." (By "new pastures", I mean topics unrelated to Evolution/Creationism.) Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 10:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I am currently a member of several other WikiProjects unrelated to this topic, such as WP:Volcanoes and WP:Libertarianism, and I will plan on expanding my (currently small) participation in those WikiProjects:). I will still be helping on getting this WikiProject off the ground, but I am going to be focusing my actual editing efforts in those directions.--Novus Orator 10:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[EC]Though this doesn't explain this recent edit on mainspace on a creationism-related article. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 10:45, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My bad...I don't think that edit was contentious (I just added a reference) but I'm afraid I slipped up there. I've removed the page from my watchlist so it doesn't happen again.--Novus Orator 10:47, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There was an earlier discussion at WT:WikiProject intelligent design/Archive 4#A creationism wikiproject?. I don't think anything has changed since then, and in fact Hrafn, the last editor to propose such a project (although with slightly wider scope), was apparently convinced it wasn't a good idea and is now arguing against it. I think it would be much better to explicitly expand the scope of WP:WikiProject intelligent design .(In practice it seems to cover general creationism already, at least to some extent.) Hans Adler 11:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC) PS: Of course there is also the discussion at User:Terra Novus/WikiProject Young Earth Creationism. Hans Adler 11:50, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I still think a general Creationism project is a good idea (as I suggested above). I do however think that one aimed solely at YEC is suboptimal, and further have concerns (i) about the half-cocked, cart-before-the-horse manner in which it was created, and (ii) that its proponents seem more interested in "countering [alleged] Systemic bias" than in WP:DUE & (iii) that they lack any substantive history of editing positively on the topic. This does not strike me as auspicious. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 13:45, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay than, Hrafn. That sounds good. Lets change this proposal to being a Creationism (General) WikiProject, and I can work on starting a Workgroup for YEC once that WikiProject is up and running. I think if we want it to have broad consensus the Creationism WikiProject can be a sister Project to Intelligent Design, and cover all religions' Creation stories, and their similarities and differences, not just the Judeo-Christian account. We can have emphasis workgroups for each tradition within that WikiProject.--Novus Orator 05:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd rather see the existing ID project expanded than another small project created. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:16, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've put up a formal proposal for expansion at WT:WikiProject intelligent design#Formal proposal to expand this Wikiproject to the wider topic of creationism. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 04:48, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why create a WikiProject about Abhramic creationism? We already have WP:Christianity, WP:Judaism and WP:Islam. Wouldn't it be better to create a WikiProject that covers the religious world origins? WP:WikiProject Religious world origins that would not just cover Abhramic creation, but other world religions as well. There is a fair bit of Abhramic coverage on Wikipedia already. It would be better if coverage of other religions were expanded to show other points of view. 65.93.12.43 (talk) 07:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As WP:WikiProject intelligent design has now been expanded to WP:WikiProject Creationism, and a Young Earth creationism taskforce created within it, this proposal is now moot. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 14:33, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or at the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.